DallasAg 94 said:

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Grapesoda2525 said:

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DallasAg 94 said:

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Grapesoda2525 said:

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Dave Raymond and company are preparing a huge segment tomorrow dedicated to the big stink. They will say that his home run in the 9th inning off a position player is where he officially busted out of his slump and we should ALL expect nothing, but great things out of him the rest of the way.


I snuck into the rangers front office and this is how they evaluate the current group of position players.


odor strikes out = front office ignores it like it didn't happen.

Odor makes contact = it's the equivalent of backup Santana, forsythe, or pence getting a single

Odor gets a single = equal to a Santana, forsythe, or Calhoun extra base hit

Odor gets a double = equal to a Santana, forsythe, or Calhoun home run

Odor gets a triple = we might have the next mike trout on our hands.

Odor gets a home run = slump is over. Previous negative at bats completely forgotten about and forgiven. Leash is extended by another 2 weeks.

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I snuck into your head:

Odor gets a hit = Terrible pitcher everyone gets hits off him.
Nobody gets a hit = Odor is terrible.
Odor gets only hit for team = The other players faced a really good pitcher and Odor got luck.

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That's funny, but realistically it's a stretch.

Is odor's performance today really worth celebrating when the team scored over 15 runs? All of the hits In the 9th off a royals position player count on the stat sheet, but they don't mean anything regarding the trajectory of a player.

The pitching they faced today was awful. Most major league teams probably would've put up 10 runs.

As for your second point, we haven't been no hit yet so that's just not true or relevant to the discussion.

I don't recall any games this year where odor got the only hit for us, but I could be wrong there. I know I'm not wrong about us not getting no hit tho.

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I'm not saying it it time to celebrate.

The point was... when he does well, and the other players do well, you want to point out that he only did well because the pitcher sucked. Fair enough... but Willie faced the same pitchers. Which is why I asked... are we sold on him, or was it just poor KC pitching.

When Odor struggles... some times it is the pitcher and the entire team struggles. You like to call out Odor, but fail to mention the other players struggled as well, because it was a great pitcher.

It is worth nothing Willie is 9 months younger than Odor. Willie has a career 50Gs and a .255 BA and 5 HR, mostly against poor KC pitching, and is most likely a DH. Odor has 703G, .244, 111 HR... and plays a skill position.

I love what Danny Santana is doing. He is 3 year older than Odor and has played 389G with a career .251 BA, 16 HR, 54 SB.

Forsythe (32) is having a great season (.320)... well, for him. A career .250 hitter. 66 HRs. He has 639G (887) at 2B. So, at age 32, 7 years older than Odor, this mostly 2B (72% of G) has fewer games at 2B than Odor.

We can do this all day long...

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I don't necessarily look at what a player has done, I tend to look at what a player can do and has done this season. We've played roughly 40 games and we're starting to get an idea of who is having a good season and whose not. Odor has looked atrocious so far this year, he's gotta be in the bottom 3 statistically for a full time position player up to this point.

"Outside the 5 HRs, he only has 13 other hits, 10 BBs, and 1 HBO in 120 PAs, and of the 24 times he's reached base without homering, he's been caught stealing a league-leading 4 times"

Odor hasn't really helped the team in a meaningful way all season. I can tell you that 3 of his 5 home runs came in blow out games which we won by close to 15 runs. We would've been fine if he wasn't in the lineup those days. As you can see above, about 17% of the time he actually gets on base, he does something stupid and offs himself on the bases. As of right now, yeah his defense at second base is really good, but the players we have around him who are mashing the ball and are capable of at least average defense at the position, don't warrant him being up here.

He should go down to Nashville and fix himself.

If you want me to say it, yeah..... Odor is held to a higher standard because of the contract. Fans expect him to be a productive player after the front office showed their faith in him. Odor also has been the most frustrating player in the league to watch over the last 3 seasons. It's feast or famine with the guy, and if you were a betting man putting money on it, he'd usually be in famine mode.

The front office and management make odors situation worse by giving the guy every tool and advantage to succeed while not affording other players the same luxuries or similar treatment. Santana and forsythe have no idea which position they will be playing on a given day and how many days they will play in a week. The big stink is always in the lineup, every single day, no matter what, and he usually strikes out at least once per game.

Forsythe and Santana have versatility. Versatility should be seen as a valuable commodity in today's game. Odor only plays one position. Forsythe can play pretty much every position in the infield. Santana is a switch hitter who has played every position except pitcher / catcher. Santana might actually be our best base runner / fastest guy. Both players don't have a reputation for bone headed plays on offense and defense. You can actually trust that they will play like a normal major league player when you put them in the lineup.

KT 90 said:

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Shelby Miller to the bullpen:

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May 16, 2019

KANSAS CITY -- Rangers manager Chris Woodward has some creative pitching plans as they return to Globe Life Park on Friday to open a three-game series against the Cardinals.
Woodward confirmed before Thursday's 16-1 win over the Royals that struggling right-hander Shelby Miller will not take his scheduled starting turn on Sunday and will work from the bullpen, at least temporarily. Meanwhile, left-hander Drew Smyly's turn is being pushed back to Sunday from Friday as Smyly recovers from a slight left ankle sprain.
Adrian Sampson on Friday and Ariel Jurado on Saturday will be the primary pitchers, with Jose Leclerc expected to work in front of Sampson as an opener, and Jesse Chavez likely to fill the opener's role ahead of Jurado, provided that Shawn Kelley is activated.
"It'll be good to get those first three or four hitters out of the way, because I don't want to put an expectation of [Sampson or Jurado] going 90 or 100 pitches," Woodward said. "With both those guys, it will just help them get through."
The decision to take Miller out of the starting rotation comes after his ERA ballooned to 9.51 when he allowed seven hits and eight runs over 1 2/3 innings in the opening game vs. the Royals on Tuesday.
Woodward said both he and pitching coach Julio Rangel have spoken to Miller about the plan that will be laid out for him moving forward.
"He's fine with it," Woodward said. "He's open to whatever. He knows he has struggled in a starting role."
For the time being, Woodward said he envisions Miller being used for an inning or two in certain situations.

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This is consistent with what could have been predicted.

Two things JD has been enamored with, lately, is the idea of a 6-Man rotation... and the idea of an Opener, like Tampa has used.

Hamels was very vocal against a 6-Man rotation, and the Rangers have implemented it in all minor leagues, with the exception of AAA.

Piece together a rotation of SPs who have recently had surgery, and there is a limitation in expectations regarding success and durability. A 6-Man rotation limits innings. To get fans to buy into it, you have to really show some struggle. To get the SPs to buy into it, you need SPs who are desperate to remain in a rotation.

I think it was Woody who said one of the SPs (Shelby, IIRC) could come in after an Opener. The problem he saw was that the SP would have to change his routine, not knowing for sure when he'd come it. As a SP, especially at home... you know exactly when the game for you begins. You get all of the pregame warm ups, etc.

You open with a guy who is lock-down closer... he goes out and gets an IP for you with a fairly predictable result, and gets the 1-2-3 guys out... then you bring in the SP (Shelby) for the 2nd inning, who comes in to face the 4-5-6 guys as his 1st IP. The more guys the Opener faces, the more favorable the lineup the actual SP (Shelby) faces.

You potentially shorten the game to 8.0 Innings, and diminish the opposing lineup.

I see the strategy and purpose.

I still don't like it. Seems like an attempt to twist the game. But, if Shelby, Sampson and Smyly buy into it and get you 5.0+ IP with reasonable success (4.50 ERA or below)... I don't think anyone will complain. You are now getting to the 7th Inning with more workload on the guys you want.

Gallo having a great year, and that astros lineup is insane.

PacifistAg said:

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Gallo having a great year, and that astros lineup is insane.

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Anyone who would suggest that gallo isn't making great strides is either a total idiot or not actually watching the games.


It's very depressing that the Astros have 4 of the top 9 hitters.

Grapesoda2525 said:

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Forsythe and Santana have versatility. Versatility should be seen as a valuable commodity in today's game. Odor only plays one position. Forsythe can play pretty much every position in the infield. Santana is a switch hitter who has played every position except pitcher / catcher.

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I keep repeating that to myself because of how incredibly stupid that sounds.

In 9 years of MLB... Forsythe has played 2B in:
23 (24), 81 (25), 34 (26), 74 (27), 126 (28), 118 (29), 80 (30), 51 (99), 32 (5).

Only 2 seasons, in which he has played over half the games at 2nd, but yet... he is more valuable... because he has proven he isn't good enough to be a starter. He makes $2M.

You think Forsythe played other positions because the team saw that as a more valuable proposition?

In 6 seasons, Santana has played 22 Games at 2B.... 11 of those were this season.

You don't think his only 7 GP @ 1B being this season as something the Rangers anticipated, do you? He has not played 3B (in addition to P & C), and only played 6 G at 3B. I think he is making league minimum, and just happy to be on the roster.

It is more likely than not, that both of those players have over-stayed their value to the team.

Quote:

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Santana might actually be our best base runner / fastest guy.

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If speed and SB were enough... Delino would still be here.

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Both players don't have a reputation for bone headed plays on offense and defense. You can actually trust that they will play like a normal major league player when you put them in the lineup.

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I didn't know either Forsythe nor Santana, until the Rangers signed them. If you've seen either in a game outside of a Rangers game (or playoff), you are a better baseball fan, than I am. So, I can't speak to their reputation, other than to say the Rangers signed them for chump change, with hopes of making a Major League roster out of Spring Training, as versatile bench players.

Santana wasn't good enough out of Spring Training and started the season in the minors... Forsythe was seen as a player Woody liked and had history with... and who could play 1B, if necessary.

Neither of them were much of anything coming out of spring training. Kudos they are making the most of their opportunity.

He also now leads the league in OPS

DallasAg 94 said:

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Grapesoda2525 said:

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Forsythe and Santana have versatility. Versatility should be seen as a valuable commodity in today's game. Odor only plays one position. Forsythe can play pretty much every position in the infield. Santana is a switch hitter who has played every position except pitcher / catcher.

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I keep repeating that to myself because of how incredibly stupid that sounds.

In 9 years of MLB... Forsythe has played 2B in:
23 (24), 81 (25), 34 (26), 74 (27), 126 (28), 118 (29), 80 (30), 51 (99), 32 (5).

Only 2 seasons, in which he has played over half the games at 2nd, but yet... he is more valuable... because he has proven he isn't good enough to be a starter. He makes $2M.

You think Forsythe played other positions because the team saw that as a more valuable proposition?

In 6 seasons, Santana has played 22 Games at 2B.... 11 of those were this season.

You don't think his only 7 GP @ 1B being this season as something the Rangers anticipated, do you? He has not played 3B (in addition to P & C), and only played 6 G at 3B. I think he is making league minimum, and just happy to be on the roster.

It is more likely than not, that both of those players have over-stayed their value to the team.

Quote:

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Santana might actually be our best base runner / fastest guy.

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If speed and SB were enough... Delino would still be here.

Quote:

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Both players don't have a reputation for bone headed plays on offense and defense. You can actually trust that they will play like a normal major league player when you put them in the lineup.

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I didn't know either Forsythe nor Santana, until the Rangers signed them. If you've seen either in a game outside of a Rangers game (or playoff), you are a better baseball fan, than I am. So, I can't speak to their reputation, other than to say the Rangers signed them for chump change, with hopes of making a Major League roster out of Spring Training, as versatile bench players.

Santana wasn't good enough out of Spring Training and started the season in the minors... Forsythe was seen as a player Woody liked and had history with... and who could play 1B, if necessary.

Neither of them were much of anything coming out of spring training. Kudos they are making the most of their opportunity.

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Forsythe :

In 2015, Forsythe had a career year. Slashing .281/.359/.444 while hitting a well-over career-high 17 home runs (previously 6) and 68 RBI (previously 26).He took advantage of an increase in at-bats and become one of the Rays' offensive leaders.Forsythe's numbers became even more impressive once turned into sabermetrics, the WAR measurements had Forsythe at 5.12, the second best 2nd baseman and 32nd best overall player.

He played in 14 of the Dodgers 15 playoff games, including all seven games of the 2017 World Series. He hit .297 with 11 hits in 37 at-bats and also walked nine times in the playoffs.

Santana :

Santana was called up to the major leagues for the first time on May 2, 2014. After a solid start to his career, Santana was placed on the 15-day disabled list on June 27. He spent the season splitting time between center field and shortstop, and he accumulated a .319 batting average, 7 home runs, 20 stolen bases in 101 games, leading all rookies.

Both of these guys have had some major league success. They're not random scrubs. The rangers front office deserves some credit for finding guys on the cheap who are better than some of our young regulars. Both guys have a history of Injuries, and I think in Santana's case the Braves misused him, but make no mistake about it santana and forsythe are not only mashing other teams pitchers, they are making odor look bad.

My issue is the rangers don't seem to be evaluating this situation in an objective way. I know what the plan was going into the season, but when both guys are hitting around .320 while the anointed savior has hit .150 ( and looked bad doing it).

Most semi competent people would have to say that the plan might need to be changed.

LeClerc "opens" it with a quick 1-2-3 inning, with two strikeouts.

LOL at cardinals fatty

Old Tom Morris said:

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LOL at cardinals fatty

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SNIPED

They are killing this guy.

Cardinals pitcher was throwing batting practice.

Everything was up in the zone and a lot of it was right down the middle.

It's fun to watch when the other teams pitcher stinks. We have a good chance to put up another 10 spot tonight. Just need a few more.

Does Rougie still need to be sent down??

etxag18 said:

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Does Rougie still need to be sent down??

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.174 average still sucks.

Great throw. Hopefully it will stick. Dont see enough to overturn.

And i'd say it's debatable that DD has more range than Gallo. Gallo does have some wheels to go woth that arm. I'd guess the range gap is not as big as some may think

Great throw Gallo!

Old Tom Morris said:

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Great throw. Hopefully it will stick. Dont see enough to overturn.

And i'd say it's debatable that DD has more range than Gallo. Gallo does have some wheels to go woth that arm. I'd guess the range gap is not as big as some may think

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Deshields does have more range than gallo, but like you I think it's a negligible difference. Maybe one step or two.

Beyond the noodle arm, I just never thought DD had a realy goodnfeel for the position and reacting properly to the ball off the bat. Ebbed and flowed. Not terrible but it limited the impact of his speed.

Willie with multi-hit games in all 3 since being called back up!

Jimtim1216 said:

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Willie with multi-hit games in all 3 since being called back up!

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Yep, I like it. He's not going back down. Forcing his way on the roster, somebody else is leaving when Elvis comes back.

The offensive explosion

cmiller00 said:

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Great throw Gallo!

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My favorite part of that play was the "f*** yeah, motherf***er!" and the scowl he had like he was pissed that the guy tried to run on him.

KT 90 said:

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Jimtim1216 said:

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Willie with multi-hit games in all 3 since being called back up!

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Yep, I like it. He's not going back down. Forcing his way on the roster, somebody else is leaving when Elvis comes back.

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It almost has to be a reliever at this point.

Some fodder:

36 G, 21 R, 7 HR, 23 RBI, 54 TB: Cabrera
29 G, 20 R, 8 HR, 27 RBI, 58 TB: Pence

25 G, 19 R, 3 HR, 11 RBI, 46 TB: Santana; Avg about 4.1 batting position
30 G, 19 R, 6 HR, 18 RBI, 41 TB: Odor: Avg about 4.0 batting position
31 G, 19 R, 3 HR, 22 RBI, 56 TB: Forsythe; Avg about 7th in batting position

Santana is batting .339 (A/Ma0, .281 (May)
Odor is batting .145 (A/Ma), .200 (May)
Forsythe is batting .278 (A/Ma), .444 (May)


Odor has had a slightly better batting position, but overall, it is hard to say he is doing great compared to Odor.

Something else you missed:
Santana 18GS against RH SP (.354 against RHP), 2 GS against a LH SP (.083 against LHP).
Odor 20 GS against a RH SP (.159 against RHP), 8 GS against a LH SP (.200 against LHP).

Santana has limited exposure to LH pitching. His versatility comes in as a situational hitter.

I liked Sampson's performance, last night. He is 2 outs away from qualifying for ERA... which he'd be 32nd in the AL.

I have tickets for the game today to say my final farewell to the ballpark. Need this damn storm to blow through already, but of course it's going to park over the stadium right at 3:00

Willie Calhoun is on another level right now

Here we go...

That's a bad call.

And **** all these bandwagoner Cardinals fans.

Bull**** giving them the run from 1st there. One out and Calhoun caught that clean off the rebound

Pickoffs have a higher success rate when you catch the ball.

Thanks, Odor.

That pickoff would have really helped.

The Carpenter hit seemed like the right call?!

Looks like Luke Jackson has finally figured it out, at age 27.

20 G, 2.01 ERA, 22.1 IP, 17 H, 28 K. 1.07 WHIP

In Dec 2016, Luke Jackson was traded... Brady Feigl (now 28, in AAA: 3.06 ERA, 12G) and Tyrell Jenkins.

I think that was a swap of soon to be Rule V guys.

So many hard hit outs today