So Tanaka game 4, and who game 5 for the Yankees? Is 6 looking like their BP game too?
***** Official Houston Astros 2019 Season Thread *****
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Last: 4 yr ago by PSully97
Paxton Game 5
I like it.
In game 5 you are trying to close it out or get the lead back before coming home with Verlander.
If you only win one of the next 2, it would be better to have a bullpen day at home. We play better at Minute Maid. Plus the Yankees would have to counter with the bullpen, save Paxton for game 6 with bullpen game 5 or bring in Severino on short rest.
In game 5 you are trying to close it out or get the lead back before coming home with Verlander.
If you only win one of the next 2, it would be better to have a bullpen day at home. We play better at Minute Maid. Plus the Yankees would have to counter with the bullpen, save Paxton for game 6 with bullpen game 5 or bring in Severino on short rest.
What this rain delay has done for us is to allow 5 games being played where it's ZG, JV, GC, ZG, JV.
That's amazing. If it were any other teams than the Yankees, you'd almost feel sorry for them.
That's amazing. If it were any other teams than the Yankees, you'd almost feel sorry for them.
suggested:Nuke LaLoosh said:
This is so far easily the right move that any argument against it is just silly.
You don't start Greinke tomorrow and have a Uriquidy/bullpen game when we play four days in a row? Hell no.
G4 - Urquidy
G5 - Grienke (with a potentially tired bullpen from G4)
G6 - Verlander
G7 - Cole
WS:
G1 - Urquidy (or Grienke on 3 days rest?)
G2 - Grienke (or JV on 3 days rest?)
G3 - JV (5 days rest)
G4 - Cole (5 days rest)
G5 - Urquidy (full rest)
G6 - Grienke (full rest)
G7 - JV (full rest)
actual:
G4 - Grienke
G5 - JV
G6 - Urquidy
G7 - Cole (with a potentially tired bullpen)
WS:
G1 - Grienke (full rest)
G2 - JV (full rest)
G3 - Cole (full rest)
G4 - BP
G5 - Grienke (full rest)
G6 - JV (full rest)
G7 - Cole (full rest)
Come at me bro, you going to tell me you look JV in the eyes and say, "hey, know you are ready to go and you are used to 4 days rest, but we are going with Urquidy today."
He's saying Hinch made the right call.
You are misreading Nuke. He is saying hell no to starting a bullpen game tomorrow and then going Greinke, JV, GC when you have 4 games in a row.
it came off as i was directing that at Nuke, it was directed at those he who think we run out our bullpen in G4 or G5.
I see how my response lookes, i meant it to add onto his response.
I see how my response lookes, i meant it to add onto his response.
that poor fella seems to think saturday is an off day.
Greinke in game 4 and JV in game 5 is fine.
it doesn't change the calculus of the series...NYY still has to win a JV or Cole start to advance. And the Bombers are 0 for 2 so far.
it will be fun to watch all of Boone's desperation moves tomorrow and Friday. He knows they can't go back to MMP down 3-2
it doesn't change the calculus of the series...NYY still has to win a JV or Cole start to advance. And the Bombers are 0 for 2 so far.
it will be fun to watch all of Boone's desperation moves tomorrow and Friday. He knows they can't go back to MMP down 3-2
rak1693 said:
If Game 6 is an elimination game for us, Cole will be the starter and he will go as long as possible.
Not sure I agree. You'd have to win a BP day at that point regardless. Why compromise your best weapon for Game 6 when you have to play game 7 regardless?
Facing elimination in 6 I would still go with BP day and save Cole for full rest.
The only reason you pitch a bullpen game in the ALCS is because a bullpen game gives you the best chance to win that day. It would be RIDICULOUS with a 3-2 series lead and one game away from having home field advantage in the World Series to look past the 103-win Yankees and skip the best pitcher in baseball for any reason whatsoever.
I think it would even be ridiculous to do it with a 3-0 series lead - ask the 2004 Yankees.
I think it would even be ridiculous to do it with a 3-0 series lead - ask the 2004 Yankees.
exp said:rak1693 said:
If Game 6 is an elimination game for us, Cole will be the starter and he will go as long as possible.
Not sure I agree. You'd have to win a BP day at that point regardless. Why compromise your best weapon for Game 6 when you have to play game 7 regardless?
Facing elimination in 6 I would still go with BP day and save Cole for full rest.
You would get scalded for not starting the best pitcher on the planet on short rest in an elimination game. That's just a wild take you have.
Yankees needing to beat Cole and Verlander is a tough sell. They beat Grienke in game 1 and during the reg season their 3 victories were against Framber, Peacock and Miley (ND but bullpen loss)
In 2 Verlander starts in the reg season they won both with JV getting a ND in one game allowing 3 runs in 6 IP, and in his win gave up 3 in 7 IP after we were up 9-0
In Coles only start he got a ND, 3 runs in 7 IP, but Astros won
In 2 Verlander starts in the reg season they won both with JV getting a ND in one game allowing 3 runs in 6 IP, and in his win gave up 3 in 7 IP after we were up 9-0
In Coles only start he got a ND, 3 runs in 7 IP, but Astros won
Let's hope this isn't a redo of 1986 with Mike Scott waiting to throw game 7. That could be Cole.
I completely agree with you here.mathguy86 said:I have said before that I would have done Greinke tomorrow and the Urkeeding game Friday and hold JV and Cole for the home games. Or at least wait on game 5 decision until after the game 4 answer.Cromagnum said:mathguy86 said:Hinch just pushed his big pile of chips in the middle of the table. Lose those 2 and he is up against the wall in Game 6.bearkatag15 said:
You gonna play bullpen games against Tanaka in game 4 instead? Too big of a risk.
Scenario 1: Greinke wins Game 4. You are up 3-1 in the series. You need a bullpen game at some point. Throw Urquidy and Peacock in Game 5. If you lose that, you are up 3-2, going home with JV and Cole for Games 6 and 7.
Scenario 2: Greinke loses game 4. To me, that is when you throw Verlander in Game 5. It makes Game 5 a must-win.
Worst case scenario: Greinke loses Game 4, then JV loses Game 5. Astros are down 3-2 coming home, but then have to throw Cole Game 6 on short rest in a must-win just to tie the series. Then, what do you have Game 7? A bullpen game with Greinke on 2 days rest and JV unavailable. That is a nightmare.
TL;DR - Hinch needs to save JV and Cole for games 6&7. We are up 2-1. We could come home trailing 3-2. The Yankees can't win the series in NY. they have to come back to MMP. I'd rather have my two best pitchers available, on full rest, for the two biggest games. One of the games in NY needs to be a bullpen game.
TL;DR - well he isnt. and hes smarter than all of us combined.
for the record though I posted the same thing earlier and I agree with you. thats what I would do.
but Hinch knows what he is doing.
I think he announced JV for Game 5 already to put pressure on the Yankees. They know they HAVE to win tomorrow or its an elemination game vs the Cy Young. Try and get them pressing.
but Hinch knows what he is doing.
I think he announced JV for Game 5 already to put pressure on the Yankees. They know they HAVE to win tomorrow or its an elemination game vs the Cy Young. Try and get them pressing.
exp said:rak1693 said:
If Game 6 is an elimination game for us, Cole will be the starter and he will go as long as possible.
Not sure I agree. You'd have to win a BP day at that point regardless. Why compromise your best weapon for Game 6 when you have to play game 7 regardless?
Facing elimination in 6 I would still go with BP day and save Cole for full rest.
NY has been burning through their bullpen, the longer this series goes on the more beneficial it is to us. The more our hitters get to see them and the more worn out their bullpen gets. Plus if their starter cant go deep into games the 4 days in a row will wreck them.
This puts pressure on the Yanks for sure. Even if Tanaka gets a solid 5 innings, a close game forces them to throw their best relief on the front side of a, minimum, 3 game stretch. Even if they win game 4 they can't have a BP day for game 5 against JV. If we win either of the next two then the odds for the yanks look grim.
And this is why you win the regular season and get home-field advantage throughout.
One thing is for sure, I'm enjoying this conversation of hypotheticals much more up 2-1 than down 2-1
WelchAg said:
One thing is for sure, I'm enjoying this conversation of hypotheticals much more up 2-1 than down 2-1
Yup.WelchAg said:
One thing is for sure, I'm enjoying this conversation of hypotheticals much more up 2-1 than down 2-1
Boone trying to figure out how to thread a needle during a thunderstorm in the pitch dark right now. It is definitely possible, but can only lose 1 game against Grienke, JV, BP, Cole is a tall order for him. Hope he cracks under the pressure.
WelchAg said:
One thing is for sure, I'm enjoying this conversation of hypotheticals much moreup 2-1 than down 2-1than the daily Reddick v Tucker discussion.
FIFY
is there really a discussion any more?Ag_07 said:WelchAg said:
One thing is for sure, I'm enjoying this conversation of hypotheticals much moreup 2-1 than down 2-1than the daily Reddick v Tucker discussion.
FIFY
agproducer said:I completely agree with you here.mathguy86 said:I have said before that I would have done Greinke tomorrow and the Urkeeding game Friday and hold JV and Cole for the home games. Or at least wait on game 5 decision until after the game 4 answer.Cromagnum said:mathguy86 said:Hinch just pushed his big pile of chips in the middle of the table. Lose those 2 and he is up against the wall in Game 6.bearkatag15 said:
You gonna play bullpen games against Tanaka in game 4 instead? Too big of a risk.
Scenario 1: Greinke wins Game 4. You are up 3-1 in the series. You need a bullpen game at some point. Throw Urquidy and Peacock in Game 5. If you lose that, you are up 3-2, going home with JV and Cole for Games 6 and 7.
Scenario 2: Greinke loses game 4. To me, that is when you throw Verlander in Game 5. It makes Game 5 a must-win.
Worst case scenario: Greinke loses Game 4, then JV loses Game 5. Astros are down 3-2 coming home, but then have to throw Cole Game 6 on short rest in a must-win just to tie the series. Then, what do you have Game 7? A bullpen game with Greinke on 2 days rest and JV unavailable. That is a nightmare.
TL;DR - Hinch needs to save JV and Cole for games 6&7. We are up 2-1. We could come home trailing 3-2. The Yankees can't win the series in NY. they have to come back to MMP. I'd rather have my two best pitchers available, on full rest, for the two biggest games. One of the games in NY needs to be a bullpen game.
My question to the bolded: If you're in a position to clinch in a game 5, and JV is nearly fully rested, why wouldn't you go for the kill?
You get the kill, you don't need a bullpen game.
the logic is he and cole are both heavy heavy favorites in 6 & 7 at home.
Verlander will probably be a favorite in NY, but would be a big favorite at home.
so the logic is that they would have to win two games a significant underdog, on the road, with a depleted pen, to win the series.
this is all given that we win game 4.
Verlander will probably be a favorite in NY, but would be a big favorite at home.
so the logic is that they would have to win two games a significant underdog, on the road, with a depleted pen, to win the series.
this is all given that we win game 4.
I like making the Yanks press by saying JV is pitching Friday but if we come out and win for Zack and are up 3-1 I save JV for Game 6 in Houston.I really like the idea of stealing it there and getting Cole/JV in game 1 & 2 in the W.S.
No. the factoring in of the WS should not be used as an argument. Would be a bonus if it worked out that way but you cant make the decision based ANY on that.cpsencik04 said:
I like making the Yanks press by saying JV is pitching Friday but if we come out and win for Zack and are up 3-1 I save JV for Game 6 in Houston.I really like the idea of stealing it there and getting Cole/JV in game 1 & 2 in the W.S.
if you want Verlander/Cole at home, your reasoning is because they would both have to lose at home to lose the series.
But if you're willing to throw him in game 5 if we lose game 4 in order to come back to Houston 3-2, why wouldn't you be willing to end it all right there?
In scenario 2 he's presented, he's assuming JV wins. If your assumption in all of the scenarios are JV wins, then why wouldn't you want him in game 5 following a game 4 win. In that case, based on your assumptions, you've won the series. Why drag the series out in order to have JV and Cole be heavy heavy favorites at home when you can end it all right then and there?
In scenario 2 he's presented, he's assuming JV wins. If your assumption in all of the scenarios are JV wins, then why wouldn't you want him in game 5 following a game 4 win. In that case, based on your assumptions, you've won the series. Why drag the series out in order to have JV and Cole be heavy heavy favorites at home when you can end it all right then and there?
I like Greinke in 4 and Verlander in 5 - for both getting your best pitcher sooner for this series but also looking into a potential next series at worst you have the same rotation as you had during the LCS. If you were to pitch Verlander in game 6 and Cole in game 7 - unless you wanted Verlander to pitch on short rest again in game 2 you would not have those 2 until games 3 & 4 in the next series. Best case scenario you close it out in 5 or 6 without using Cole in 6 then you have Cole/Verlander games 1 & 2 on normal rest.
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