Verlander wasn't that taxed in game 1 and it was a day game so he did have that evening to rest (unlike Cole who pitched 115 or so pitches well into Saturday night).

It certainly isn't ideal but I like the idea of JV starting this game and gives us a much better chance at some 0's and HOPEFULLY our offense gets into gear.

If the Rays beat Verlander and Cole in games 4 and 5 you have to tip your cap. I'd hate to have Jose get jumped early, game gets out of hand and now we have a do or die game and we leave the Verlander bullet in the chamber.

For starters, the failed 4 out save attempt.

Also remember Urkeedy has never pitched this many innings and has never started a playoff game.

I'll take JV in his first short rest start over Urquidy popping his playoff cherry on the road in Gm 4 having never pitched this many innings.

It's a finish this now I don't wanna play a Gm 5 and I like that.

AggiEE said:

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Mr.Bond said:

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Hinch doing a lot of firsts this series that haven't paid off...

I'd rather use Urquidy as an opener and then bring in JV if necessary

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Verlander would not prefer that.

Nuke LaLoosh said:

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For starters, the failed 4 out save attempt.

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Umm, dont make stuff up.

This was Sept 5. Not even that long ago

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/HOU/HOU201909050.shtml#HoustonAstrospitching::none

Openers are so overrated.

When has that ever worked? Not just for us, but every time we face one it seems to go wrong.

There's a reason it took managers 100+ years to do it.

Nuke LaLoosh said:

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For starters, the failed 4 out save attempt.

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That is not a first. Osuna had a 4 out save last ALDS vs Cleveland.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/HOU/HOU201810060.shtml

It's definitely a gamble by Hinch. I hope it works out.

How nice would a lead off Springer Dinger feel tomorrow?

ALCS IF we win tomorrow with a 4 man rotation.

Game 1 Cole
Game 2 Greinke
Day off
Game 3 Verlander
Game 4 Urquidy / bullpen
Game 5 Cole (Normal rest)
Day off
Game 6 Greinke (Normal rest)
Game 7 Verlander (Normal rest)

ALCS IF we win ALDS in 5

Game 1 Greinke
Game 2 Verlander
Day off
Game 3 Cole
Game 4 Urquidy
Game 5 Greinke (normal rest)
Day off
Game 6 Verlander (Normal rest)
Game 7 Cole (Normal rest)

Frok said:

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It's definitely a gamble by Hinch. I hope it works out.

How nice would a lead off Springer Dinger feel tomorrow?

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Good, but, Altuve had one in the first inning today. Womp womp.

CSWendt said:

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ALCS IF we win tomorrow with a 4 man rotation.

Game 1 Cole
Game 2 Greinke
Day off
Game 3 Verlander
Game 4 Urquidy / bullpen
Game 5 Cole (Normal rest)
Day off
Game 6 Greinke (Normal rest)
Game 7 Verlander (Normal rest)

ALCS IF we win ALDS in 5

Game 1 Greinke
Game 2 Verlander
Day off
Game 3 Cole
Game 4 Urquidy
Game 5 Greinke (normal rest)
Day off
Game 6 Verlander (Normal rest)
Game 7 Cole (Normal rest)

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Both look pretty good.

AJ just announced in the presser that Verlander is starting tomorrow.

If any of the bullpen guys short of Harris showed an ability to get these guys out, then I might go with Urquidy. Cause you would only get a max of 5 with him likely since he has never been in that situation. So verlander is our best bet to get to the 7th hopefully with the lead and bring in Harris. Then pray like heck we have a HUGE lead bringing in Osuna.

gigemJTH12 said:

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How could anyone disagree with the move to go with JV???

You trust a guy with no experience more? And if he only goes 4-5 innings you're throwing 35 anyways. Because who else are you going to throw?? Also gives you Cole at home game 5 which is virtually an unstoppable force right now. Blows my mind anyone could have an issue with this.

We have 1 and 2 in the Cy young race. Make TB beat them back to back.

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My issues with it:
1) Pitching on short rest. JV is a workhorse but this is a total change of schedule. How long is he going to go? If it's just six innings, then you are relying on pitchers not named Justin Verlander for 1/3 of the game.
2) We are good enough to win the game tomorrow without JV pitching. And if we lose, then, we have him pitching at home in game 5 on full rest. Also a bit of an unstoppable force.
3) If this fails (whether because of JV, or because of the offense being non-existant, or because bullpen messes it up), then Cole is obviously pitching game 5. ALCS rotation then becomes funky. Would have to think ALCS rotation would become Greinke, Verlander, Cole. Would much prefer JV and Cole pitching the home games.
4) It's not an elimination game. Why pull out all the stops now? If this was a game 5/game 7 situation then throw the kitchen sink at the game.

Probably my BAS shining through, but, it just seems like the upside isn't there when JV (a more rested version) would be starting game 5 anyways.

DVC2010 said:

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CSWendt said:

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ALCS IF we win tomorrow with a 4 man rotation.

Game 1 Cole
Game 2 Greinke Verlander
Day off
Game 3 Verlander Greinke
Game 4 Urquidy / bullpen
Game 5 Cole (Normal rest)
Day off
Game 6 Greinke (Normal rest)
Game 7 Verlander (Normal rest)

ALCS IF we win ALDS in 5

Game 1 Greinke
Game 2 Verlander
Day off
Game 3 Cole
Game 4 Urquidy
Game 5 Greinke (normal rest)
Day off
Game 6 Verlander (Normal rest)
Game 7 Cole (Normal rest)

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If we win tomorrow, Verlander will be ready to pitch in full rest for game 2.

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Yeah, but I might like the idea of letting Greinke pitch at home game 2, and Verlander in NY to steal one for game 3. With Cole going game 5, you could win games 3 and 5 in New York and still be set up with Verlander at home for game 7

Ag13 said:

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My issues with it:
1) Pitching on short rest. JV is a workhorse but this is a total change of schedule. How long is he going to go? If it's just six innings, then you are relying on pitchers not named Justin Verlander for 1/3 of the game.
2) We are good enough to win the game tomorrow without JV pitching. And if we lose, then, we have him pitching at home in game 5 on full rest. Also a bit of an unstoppable force.
3) If this fails (whether because of JV, or because of the offense being non-existant, or because bullpen messes it up), then Cole is obviously pitching game 5. ALCS rotation then becomes funky. Would have to think ALCS rotation would become Greinke, Verlander, Cole. Would much prefer JV and Cole pitching the home games.
4) It's not an elimination game. Why pull out all the stops now? If this was a game 5/game 7 situation then throw the kitchen sink at the game.

Probably my BAS shining through, but, it just seems like the upside isn't there when JV (a more rested version) would be starting game 5 anyways.

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1) A 6IP max outing is not a given. There have been some short rest gems pitched. Schilling and Becket come to mind
2 & 4) If we get bounced from the playoffs, do you want it to be because some mostly unknown pitcher sucked it up. You never know what can happen in an elimination game, our bats can go ice cold against their well above average pitching staff and we could lose a game 1-0 in the 10th inning.
3). Nothing in the playoffs are a given, stack the deck as much in your favor as you can to win the series at hand.

Ag13 said:

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gigemJTH12 said:

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How could anyone disagree with the move to go with JV???

You trust a guy with no experience more? And if he only goes 4-5 innings you're throwing 35 anyways. Because who else are you going to throw?? Also gives you Cole at home game 5 which is virtually an unstoppable force right now. Blows my mind anyone could have an issue with this.

We have 1 and 2 in the Cy young race. Make TB beat them back to back.

---

My issues with it:
1) Pitching on short rest. JV is a workhorse but this is a total change of schedule. How long is he going to go? If it's just six innings, then you are relying on pitchers not named Justin Verlander for 1/3 of the game.
2) We are good enough to win the game tomorrow without JV pitching. And if we lose, then, we have him pitching at home in game 5 on full rest. Also a bit of an unstoppable force.
3) If this fails (whether because of JV, or because of the offense being non-existant, or because bullpen messes it up), then Cole is obviously pitching game 5. ALCS rotation then becomes funky. Would have to think ALCS rotation would become Greinke, Verlander, Cole. Would much prefer JV and Cole pitching the home games.
4) It's not an elimination game. Why pull out all the stops now? If this was a game 5/game 7 situation then throw the kitchen sink at the game.

Probably my BAS shining through, but, it just seems like the upside isn't there when JV (a more rested version) would be starting game 5 anyways.

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If we're good enough to win without JV then we're good enough to survive 3 IP without him. Also we can go into game 5 with Cole. He's a bit of an unstoppable force too.

Kind of torn right now. Would love to see the Twins win tonight, but also would like to get that 8ET start time tomorrow to enjoy the game with some nice refreshments at a nearby establishment.

It's not like the Yankees have a particular pitcher that I want to see them burn.

Ag13 said:

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gigemJTH12 said:

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How could anyone disagree with the move to go with JV???

You trust a guy with no experience more? And if he only goes 4-5 innings you're throwing 35 anyways. Because who else are you going to throw?? Also gives you Cole at home game 5 which is virtually an unstoppable force right now. Blows my mind anyone could have an issue with this.

We have 1 and 2 in the Cy young race. Make TB beat them back to back.

---

2) We are good enough to win the game tomorrow without JV pitching. And if we lose, then, we have him pitching at home in game 5 on full rest. Also a bit of an unstoppable force.
3) If this fails (whether because of JV, or because of the offense being non-existant, or because bullpen messes it up), then Cole is obviously pitching game 5. ALCS rotation then becomes funky. Would have to think ALCS rotation would become Greinke, Verlander, Cole. Would much prefer JV and Cole pitching the home games.
4) It's not an elimination game. Why pull out all the stops now? If this was a game 5/game 7 situation then throw the kitchen sink at the game.

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willjohnathan said:

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Nuke LaLoosh said:

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For starters, the failed 4 out save attempt.

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Umm, dont make stuff up.

This was Sept 5. Not even that long ago

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/HOU/HOU201909050.shtml#HoustonAstrospitching::none

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Yep, a guy pitching two innings in an extra inning game is EXACTLY identical to what hinch did did on Saturday.

Different situation, different pitcher. Don't be intentionally dense.

The four out save wasn't a mistake once Cole was left in to start the 8th. Hinch absolutely had to protect Cole from taking the L, although if anyone had the mental fortitude to push past that it's Cole. The "right" decision still would have been a full 8th/9th from Harris & Osuna but it is what it is.

JV would likely have to pitch somewhere tomorrow. I personally thought Urquidy & Miley would tagteam until the 6th or so and JV would protect the lead. Miley's toast now (and should be left off the ALCS roster). If JV is more comfortable starting then you absolutely pick his comfort over Urquidy's.

Farmer1906 said:

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Nuke LaLoosh said:

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For starters, the failed 4 out save attempt.

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That is not a first. Osuna had a 4 out save last ALDS vs Cleveland.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/HOU/HOU201810060.shtml

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A first for the season is a first for the season.

I guarantee Vegas will have the Astros as a bigger favorite with Verlander on the mound

Astros are -221 with Verlander

Nuke LaLoosh said:

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willjohnathan said:

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Nuke LaLoosh said:

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For starters, the failed 4 out save attempt.

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Umm, dont make stuff up.

This was Sept 5. Not even that long ago

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/HOU/HOU201909050.shtml#HoustonAstrospitching::none

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Yep, a guy pitching two innings in an extra inning game is EXACTLY identical to what hinch did did on Saturday.

Different situation, different pitcher. Don't be intentionally dense.

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Those are pretty similar situations. Ok, the score was tied instead of us being up. It was still him coming in with 2 outs in a high pressure situation and then coming back out the following inning and getting 3 outs, again in a high leverage situation. Everyone (yourself included) was complaining about him not pitching over the span of multiple innings (ever). And you are wrong. Not exact but very similar situation.

Game of inches. Cards tie it at 4 on a bloop off the 1st baseman's glove in the 8th

willjohnathan said:

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Kind of torn right now. Would love to see the Twins win tonight, but also would like to get that 8ET start time tomorrow to enjoy the game with some nice refreshments at a nearby establishment.

It's not like the Yankees have a particular pitcher that I want to see them burn.

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I'd rather have the evening game as it gives Verlander a little extra rest...he would be pitching on 3.5 days rest instead of 3. I'll take every extra hour we can give him. Plus he didn't go 115 or 120 pitches and didn't labor through any long innings, it was the least stressful 7 innings he could probably pitch.

ETA and I'm mean 7 innings of playoff baseball, it was game 1 and we gave him nice run support. Also I like that he's already in their heads a bit with the manager's "we got Verlandered" comment.

Acuna is legit, but he's such a *******

Any way both of these teams can lose?