link not working for me...now it is, changed to httpsdshedd14 said:
Richard Justice article:
http://www.mlb.com/news/5-teams-meeting-high-expectations
***** Official Houston Astros 2019 Season Thread *****
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Last: 5 yr ago by PSully97
While I want someone (anyone) in the DH spot besides White, I just can't see them exposing him to waivers. For one, they aren't going to do anything to upset the psyche of this team. Framber, James or possibly Devo will go down. Assuming Devo can even go down. He may be out of options too.
He is struggling and I expect it to only get worse knowing that there are two prospects below him that can replace him and give them the exact same as well as get time in the bigs to be ready for the playoffs. I am guessing that some of it was struggling early on, now he is also fighting for his job and I would bet that is some of the problem as well.Quote:
Guy is struggling against crappy pitching in situations where there is absolutely no pressure and the entire lineup sans him is raking.
It's tough because on one hand the team is rolling and who cares if one guy in the lineup sucks, but at the same time now would be an ideal time to give Yordan a shot. The team is rolling, the comp is not elite, and there's absolutely no pressure. You wouldn't have to worry about fitting him into a defensive position and taking ABs from someone. Just drop him in the lineup at DH and let him go get big league ABs.
The Athletic put out an article about potential best fits for trade partners for Madison Bumgarner. Here is what was said about Houston:
If we can get an extension worked out for MadBum pre-trade then I'm all in on giving up Straw and/or Beer plus one of the pitching prospects listed.Quote:
Houston Astros
Off-limits minor-league prospects:
Forrest Whitley, RHP
Yordan Alvarez, 1B
Kyle Tucker, OF
The Astros are an interesting potential trade partner for the Giants because they too have a deep farm system loaded with major-league-ready talent. Although the Giants wouldn't be able to get Yordan Alvarez or Kyle Tucker, the Astros' two best minor-league bats, they could ask for center field speedster Myles Straw or first baseman Seth Beer. In addition, the Astros' pitching depth would allow them to dangle pitching prospects like J.B. Bukauskas, Peter Solomon or Tyler Ivey. Certainly an inviting potential prospect package for the Giants and can you imagine the Astros with Justin Verlander, Gerrit Cole and Madison Bumgarner starting for them in the postseason? Wow.
I expect White to be good. His resume and history say he will come around. He's got about the same offensive resume as Yuli, and no one would dream of releasing Yuli even when he goes into his awful slumps because he comes back around and tears the cover off the ball. White will too, and I think he's eventually going to be a guy that hits 270 with 20-25 HR. I don't think he will ever be a star, but even if it doesn't seem like it right now he's too good to be released. If Hinch & Luhnow didn't agree, they would have already cut bait.Water Turkey07 said:
Does anyone actually expect White to be good at this point? I would love to eat crow down the road after he starts to rake but I just don't see that happening.
The problem is that he's terrible right now, and what he really needs is to get sent down get his swing right, but he's out of options. Problem #2 is that he's not going to improve sitting on the bench. The good news is that we are 7 games up on a bunch of below average teams in our division.
Safe at Home said:
When Altuve returns, is there anyone more logical than White to send down to make room on the roster?
White is out of options, so he cannot just be sent down. He would have to pass through waivers, which is unlikely to happen, so Astros would essentially be giving White away for nothing.
I am not sure how many more times someone is going to have to repeat it. I'm just going to say a bunch.rosco511 said:Safe at Home said:
When Altuve returns, is there anyone more logical than White to send down to make room on the roster?
White is out of options, so he cannot just be sent down. He would have to pass through waivers, which is unlikely to happen, so Astros would essentially be giving White away for nothing.
If White gives you nothing by being on the roster...why do we care if he gives you nothing by getting waived?
Because White still has value, and although he has proven to be inconsistent, he has also proven that he can hit at the MLB level. It is not typically a good business move to just abandon assets with value, especially when there is no rush or urgency to make a move.
I'll give you that there is no rush, but his value has to be at it's lowest.
What would a team realistically give up to acquire White? Mid-low draft picks? Low tier prospects? Does any team look at him and think "he'll make us better?"
Isn't that what you want when considering a trade?
Isn't that what you want when considering a trade?
redline248 said:
What would a team realistically give up to acquire White? Mid-low draft picks? Low tier prospects? Does any team look at him and think "he'll make us better?"
Isn't that what you want when considering a trade?
There are a lot of bad players that play every day in MLb
His true value is as a pitcher. Everything else he brings to the team is just icing on the cake.redline248 said:
What would a team realistically give up to acquire White? Mid-low draft picks? Low tier prospects? Does any team look at him and think "he'll make us better?"
Isn't that what you want when considering a trade?
It's a long season. Players go through slumps. Yuli was hitting .234 on May 1st and now he's hitting .276. He has 40% of his season RBIs in the last 10 days.redline248 said:
If White gives you nothing by being on the roster...why do we care if he gives you nothing by getting waived?
White's career numbers are solid. His last two seasons have been solid. You don't cut bait and get nothing in return for a guy who you thought enough of to have in your opening day lineup and is cheap and under team control for several years just because he goes through a slump.
Case in point:
JD Davis didn't do jack $h!t for the Astros at the major league level. Small sample, but awful performance. Still, the Mets thought enough of him to trade 3 pretty solid lower level prospects for him...and now he's their starting 3rd baseman. That's a win for us - he was never going to play here.
If we can get 3 lottery tickets for a AAAA player who showed nothing at the MLB level, what do you think we can get for a guy who has 23 HR, 83 RBI in just under 600 MLB ABs and is a good nutritionist away from being a poor man's Marwin? I guarantee you 20+ teams would love to make him a starter...especially the ones that can afford to let him find his stroke while they tank and hope to turn him into JD Martinez.
THAT'S why we care if he gives you nothing by getting waived.
The benefit of being the best team in the league and already commanding your division is to give guys like White and Kemp a ton of rope to figure it out or hang themselves with.mathguy86 said:
While I want someone (anyone) in the DH spot besides White, I just can't see them exposing him to waivers. For one, they aren't going to do anything to upset the psyche of this team. Framber, James or possibly Devo will go down. Assuming Devo can even go down. He may be out of options too.
The difference between White and Davis is that White can't be sent down while Davis could be at the time he was traded. So teams might not give up anything to get White if they think Houston is close to cutting bait with him anyway.
That's a good point, but it's hard to imagine that Houston is anywhere near close to cutting bait with him. Just because a bunch of short-sighted fans want to cut bait doesn't mean that a rational front office does.bearkatag15 said:
The difference between White and Davis is that White can't be sent down while Davis could be at the time he was traded. So teams might not give up anything to get White if they think Houston is close to cutting bait with him anyway.
Anyway the real value with a 7-game lead is in letting him play his way out of his slump and then deciding what to do. There really isn't anyone breathing down his neck - the position players we would call up are OF and the organization is somewhat benefited by holding them back a little longer.
I have issue with two things you said in the post.Harry Dunne said:
If we can get 3 lottery tickets for a AAAA player who showed nothing at the MLB level, what do you think we can get for a guy who has 23 HR, 83 RBI in just under 600 MLB ABs and is a good nutritionist away from being a poor man's Marwin? I guarantee you 20+ teams would love to make him a starter...especially the ones that can afford to let him find his stroke while they tank and hope to turn him into JD Martinez.
1) You are making an argument for Tyler White that is hoping teams see him as a JD Martinez player. JD Martinez is a 1 in a 1000 scenario, and no team is seeing a 28 year old, 5'11, 225lb fat DH as the same player JD Martinez was. The best Tyler White you will ever see is the guy who hits .275, with a max of 25hrs for the year. Not .330 with 43 HRs like JD last season. Tyler White is not, nor will he EVER be a MVP candidate. So let's hold off on front offices thinking he could be that one day.
2) Your argument is saying we can get decent value for Tyler White in a trade. Then why do the Astros not have suitors lining up offering trades? 20+, in your scenario, would be willing to make a trade. With the hitters at AAA tearing it up, I don't think the Astros really care a ton to keep White if they could easily flip him for prospects. I'm guessing there aren't that many teams that would "love" to have Tyler White enough where they trade a handful of prospects.
1) I'm not making that argument and I think you know that. I used JD Martinez as an example. No one thinks he's going to turn into JD Martinez. But a .275 25 HR guy is still very valuable.CSWendt said:I have issue with two things you said in the post.Harry Dunne said:
If we can get 3 lottery tickets for a AAAA player who showed nothing at the MLB level, what do you think we can get for a guy who has 23 HR, 83 RBI in just under 600 MLB ABs and is a good nutritionist away from being a poor man's Marwin? I guarantee you 20+ teams would love to make him a starter...especially the ones that can afford to let him find his stroke while they tank and hope to turn him into JD Martinez.
1) You are making an argument for Tyler White that is hoping teams see him as a JD Martinez player. JD Martinez is a 1 in a 1000 scenario, and no team is seeing a 28 year old, 5'11, 225lb fat DH as the same player JD Martinez was. The best Tyler White you will ever see is the guy who hits .275, with a max of 25hrs for the year. Not .330 with 43 HRs like JD last season. Tyler White is not, nor will he EVER be a MVP candidate. So let's hold off on front offices thinking he could be that one day.
2) Your argument is saying we can get decent value for Tyler White in a trade. Then why do the Astros not have suitors lining up offering trades? 20+, in your scenario, would be willing to make a trade. With the hitters at AAA tearing it up, I don't think the Astros really care a ton to keep White if they could easily flip him for prospects. I'm guessing there aren't that many teams that would "love" to have Tyler White enough where they trade a handful of prospects.
2) How do you know how many trade partners the Astros have lined up? It's not like that information is public! Did you in a million years think that JD Davis was going to be a commodity? Did you ever think he'd be batting cleanup for MLB team in 2019? No one is talking about "easily" flipping him for prospects. If it was as easy as MLB2K then we'd all be sitting in front offices. I don't pretend to know what's going on behind the scenes, but I do know he has value.
There is every reason to think that White will be a better major leaguer than JD Davis and Colin Moran, both of whom are starting third basemen in the majors. We are spoiled by watching the best team in baseball, but if you think back to 2014ish when we were running Chris Carter and Jon Singleton out there and Altuve was the only guy in the lineup hitting > .250...
I admit I have not followed his career prior to this season, so if you could help me out...Quote:
There is every reason to think that White will be a better major leaguer than JD Davis and Colin Moran, both of whom are starting third basemen in the majors.
What are those reasons?
the thing about White is that he came into this season even fatter than last and he's not hitting. that shows a huge lack of offseason effort and training.
Most scouts feel Alvarez will be a DH/1B long term once he comes up. Him splitting time in the outfield now is the Astros trying to see if he can add another position to his portfolio to make him for versatile on defense. Alvarez is definitely breathing down White's neckQuote:
Anyway the real value with a 7-game lead is in letting him play his way out of his slump and then deciding what to do. There really isn't anyone breathing down his neck - the position players we would call up are OF and the organization is somewhat benefited by holding them back a little longer.
I would agree with some of you if Tyler was 25-26 years old
But he's 28 and past his prime already with his physical limitations
Cut the cord
But he's 28 and past his prime already with his physical limitations
Cut the cord
He had a really good week in 2016 when he won AL player of the week then he fell off a cliff...redline248 said:I admit I have not followed his career prior to this season, so if you could help me out...Quote:
There is every reason to think that White will be a better major leaguer than JD Davis and Colin Moran, both of whom are starting third basemen in the majors.
What are those reasons?
He had 67 ABs in 2017 and was an average hitter.
In 2018 he had a solid 6 week run that pumped his numbers up for that year and for his career numbers as well. Then September/October came and he fell off a cliff again.
In 2019 he is at the bottom of said cliff with no rope to climb himself out of it with.
Yes, you're right.
I wasn't very clear there. I should have said that there is value in holding back anyone breathing down his neck and giving White a little rope so that he can either increase his value to the team or as a trade piece.
I wasn't very clear there. I should have said that there is value in holding back anyone breathing down his neck and giving White a little rope so that he can either increase his value to the team or as a trade piece.
He has nearly the exact same MLB offensive performance as Yuli!bearkatag15 said:He had a really good week in 2016 when he won AL player of the week then he fell off a cliff...redline248 said:I admit I have not followed his career prior to this season, so if you could help me out...Quote:
There is every reason to think that White will be a better major leaguer than JD Davis and Colin Moran, both of whom are starting third basemen in the majors.
What are those reasons?
He had 67 ABs in 2017 and was an average hitter.
In 2018 he had a solid 6 week run that pumped his numbers up for that year and for his career numbers as well. Then September/October came and he fell off a cliff again.
In 2019 he is at the bottom of said cliff with no rope to climb himself out of it with.
He's streaky and incosistent (and fat) and sticks out like a sore thumb in what might be the best offense in baseball history, but that doesn't mean that overall he's not an above average major leaguer...and you don't throw away an above average major leaguer and get nothing in return.
That's about all I have to say about that. Let's let it play out and see what happens.
And if the Astros were clamoring and scraping to lead the division I would agree. There's no need for that when you are in complete control. See if White can get it going.astros4545 said:
I would agree with some of you if Tyler was 25-26 years old
But he's 28 and past his prime already with his physical limitations
Cut the cord
I will say though, according to Baseaball Savant, the future does not bode well for Tyler. He's 292nd in Barrels per PA%.
https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/statcast_leaderboard
I think I know who you are... Good morning Jeff Lunhow...Harry Dunne said:He has nearly the exact same MLB offensive performance as Yuli!bearkatag15 said:He had a really good week in 2016 when he won AL player of the week then he fell off a cliff...redline248 said:I admit I have not followed his career prior to this season, so if you could help me out...Quote:
There is every reason to think that White will be a better major leaguer than JD Davis and Colin Moran, both of whom are starting third basemen in the majors.
What are those reasons?
He had 67 ABs in 2017 and was an average hitter.
In 2018 he had a solid 6 week run that pumped his numbers up for that year and for his career numbers as well. Then September/October came and he fell off a cliff again.
In 2019 he is at the bottom of said cliff with no rope to climb himself out of it with.
He's streaky and incosistent (and fat) and sticks out like a sore thumb in what might be the best offense in baseball history, but that doesn't mean that overall he's not an above average major leaguer...and you don't throw away an above average major leaguer and get nothing in return.
That's about all I have to say about that. Let's let it play out and see what happens.
I'm just saying, who is realistically going to trade for Tyler White?
An overweight player with no position besides first.
Approaching 30.
In a season long slump
Advanced stats even say his traditional stats are better than they should be.
So, I don't see a contending team really seeing Tyler White as a player they want to give up assets for. And if you aren't trying to contend, then you definitely aren't going to aquire a slumping 28 year old and give up assets.
There's just not many scenarios where a team finds trade value for Tyler White.
An overweight player with no position besides first.
Approaching 30.
In a season long slump
Advanced stats even say his traditional stats are better than they should be.
So, I don't see a contending team really seeing Tyler White as a player they want to give up assets for. And if you aren't trying to contend, then you definitely aren't going to aquire a slumping 28 year old and give up assets.
There's just not many scenarios where a team finds trade value for Tyler White.
Maybe you're right. We'll see.
Realistic scenario:
You package Tyler White in a trade for someone like Bumgarner, and include a couple prospects. This clears up at least one roster spot.
You package Tyler White in a trade for someone like Bumgarner, and include a couple prospects. This clears up at least one roster spot.
I know you're being sarcastic, but still the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me.
Unfortunately I'm just a Tyler White apologist and for some reason not bothered by him being fat. Probably because I'm fat and a huge Kirby Puckett fan.
Unfortunately I'm just a Tyler White apologist and for some reason not bothered by him being fat. Probably because I'm fat and a huge Kirby Puckett fan.
Yes, similar to Moran in the Cole trade. I'd be all for that - I think everyone would. I'd also be for sending him to the NL in exchange for some low minors lottery tickets and let Luhnow do his magic.CSWendt said:
Realistic scenario:
You package Tyler White in a trade for someone like Bumgarner, and include a couple prospects. This clears up at least one roster spot.
I'm also for having the blonde ponytail dude sit there with a whip making White do versaclimber for an hour after every game and shadow him at every meal whipping his hand when he goes for bad food so that at least he could be a good utility guy.
The only thing I'm not for is dumping him with no return.
you keep comparing White to Yuli. Yuli has proven to be a clutch hitter. but, ignoring that Yuli is a good position player not a DH. White isn't that and he's a poor DH.
CSWendt said:
I'm just saying, who is realistically going to trade for Tyler White?
No one
Ignore the fact that he is not producing, but with him on the verge of being placed on waivers gives the Astros no leverage.
Teams who are interested would simply tell Jeff to F off they'll just place a claim on him when he's DFA'ed and roll the dice.
As mentioned above he's simply a add-on piece to a package. Essentially a PTBNL and not someone other teams are blowing up Luhnow asking about.
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