***** USMNT vs England WC Game Thread (11/25) *****

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PatAg
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In reply to JJxvi • 8:53p, 11/25/22
AG
JJxvi said:
I hope Leeds werent planning on having Adams for a long time…


the post cuts off the funny part o fthe tweet, so you have to click through to see it
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gougler08
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9:16p, 11/25/22
AG
He's been all over the place for us in these matches, great D Mid
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oh no
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9:20p, 11/25/22
AG
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DeangeloVickers
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9:31p, 11/25/22
AG
MLS players can't play with the big boys. We need more European starters in 4 years
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YouBet
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In reply to jeffk • 9:38p, 11/25/22
AG
jeffk said:
Thanks! Just normal car trouble holiday travel junk. No one hurt, just a lot of inconvenience and some unexpected $$$. Still haven't watched the game. Just rolled into Jackson, MS with some hungry and tired kids (and parents).


That's actually pretty much exactly what MLS is becoming.
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PatAg
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In reply to DeangeloVickers • 10:22p, 11/25/22
AG
DeangeloVickers said:
MLS players can't play with the big boys. We need more European starters in 4 years
Or, we need it to be YOUNG MLS players, who haven't moved to Europe yet but are on that path.
If that makes sense
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agsalaska
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In reply to PatAg • 10:27p, 11/25/22
AG
PatAg said:
DeangeloVickers said:
MLS players can't play with the big boys. We need more European starters in 4 years
Or, we need it to be YOUNG MLS players, who haven't moved to Europe yet but are on that path.
If that makes sense
I disagree. They should not be representing the US in the WC if they are not international players. That should be a basic standard with very few exceptions.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.
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PatAg
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In reply to agsalaska • 10:43p, 11/25/22
AG
agsalaska said:
PatAg said:
DeangeloVickers said:
MLS players can't play with the big boys. We need more European starters in 4 years
Or, we need it to be YOUNG MLS players, who haven't moved to Europe yet but are on that path.
If that makes sense
I disagree. They should not be representing the US in the WC if they are not international players. That should be a basic standard with very few exceptions.
I'm implying they are international players in my sentence. I'm guessing you are just one of those "MLS SUCKS!" people?
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Rudyjax
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10:48p, 11/25/22
AG
It's going to be hard to get the best athletes to play the best game if we tell them they have to leave the country to be the best.

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PatAg
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In reply to Rudyjax • 10:51p, 11/25/22
AG
Chuck Cunningham said:
It's going to be hard to get the best athletes to play the best game if we tell them they have to leave the country to be the best.

You dont need "the best athletes", and its a bit silly to suggest our problem has anything to do with lacking athletes anyways.
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agsalaska
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In reply to PatAg • 10:52p, 11/25/22
AG
PatAg said:
agsalaska said:
PatAg said:
DeangeloVickers said:
MLS players can't play with the big boys. We need more European starters in 4 years
Or, we need it to be YOUNG MLS players, who haven't moved to Europe yet but are on that path.
If that makes sense
I disagree. They should not be representing the US in the WC if they are not international players. That should be a basic standard with very few exceptions.
I'm implying they are international players in my sentence. I'm guessing you are just one of those "MLS SUCKS!" people?
Nope. Not at all. I said in the last page that the MLS is a great league for a lot of things. But being the home clubs for our National team is not one of them.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.
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tysker
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In reply to agsalaska • 11:03p, 11/25/22
AG
agsalaska said:
PatAg said:
agsalaska said:
PatAg said:
DeangeloVickers said:
MLS players can't play with the big boys. We need more European starters in 4 years
Or, we need it to be YOUNG MLS players, who haven't moved to Europe yet but are on that path.
If that makes sense
I disagree. They should not be representing the US in the WC if they are not international players. That should be a basic standard with very few exceptions.
I'm implying they are international players in my sentence. I'm guessing you are just one of those "MLS SUCKS!" people?
Nope. Not at all. I said in the last page that the MLS is a great league for a lot of things. But being the home clubs for our National team is not one of them.

Due to age Euro transfer age requirements its going to be hard for late bloomers and defenders to get overseas. Euro trams aren't as excited to sign those players that grow into a NT caliber player at 24. Sometimes its better for guys to stay home and play every game than sot on the bench in a second division league in Europe.
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agsalaska
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In reply to tysker • 11:16p, 11/25/22
AG
tysker said:
agsalaska said:
PatAg said:
agsalaska said:
PatAg said:
DeangeloVickers said:
MLS players can't play with the big boys. We need more European starters in 4 years
Or, we need it to be YOUNG MLS players, who haven't moved to Europe yet but are on that path.
If that makes sense
I disagree. They should not be representing the US in the WC if they are not international players. That should be a basic standard with very few exceptions.
I'm implying they are international players in my sentence. I'm guessing you are just one of those "MLS SUCKS!" people?
Nope. Not at all. I said in the last page that the MLS is a great league for a lot of things. But being the home clubs for our National team is not one of them.

Due to age Euro transfer age requirements its going to be hard for late bloomers and defenders to get overseas. Euro trams aren't as excited to sign those players that grow into a NT caliber player at 24. Sometimes its better for guys to stay home and play every game than sot on the bench in a second division league in Europe.
There are certainly exceptions, but by the age of 24 they should be a regular contributor on both the USMNT and a major club in Europe.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.
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OregonAggie
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In reply to agsalaska • 11:37p, 11/25/22
AG
agsalaska said:
PatAg said:
agsalaska said:
PatAg said:
DeangeloVickers said:
MLS players can't play with the big boys. We need more European starters in 4 years
Or, we need it to be YOUNG MLS players, who haven't moved to Europe yet but are on that path.
If that makes sense
I disagree. They should not be representing the US in the WC if they are not international players. That should be a basic standard with very few exceptions.
I'm implying they are international players in my sentence. I'm guessing you are just one of those "MLS SUCKS!" people?
Nope. Not at all. I said in the last page that the MLS is a great league for a lot of things. But being the home clubs for our National team is not one of them.


So should Donovan have always been left off?

Who do you start instead of Zimmerman?

It would be great if all of our guys played internationally but we aren't there yet.
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agsalaska
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In reply to OregonAggie • 11:39p, 11/25/22
AG
OregonAggie said:
agsalaska said:
PatAg said:
agsalaska said:
PatAg said:
DeangeloVickers said:
MLS players can't play with the big boys. We need more European starters in 4 years
Or, we need it to be YOUNG MLS players, who haven't moved to Europe yet but are on that path.
If that makes sense
I disagree. They should not be representing the US in the WC if they are not international players. That should be a basic standard with very few exceptions.
I'm implying they are international players in my sentence. I'm guessing you are just one of those "MLS SUCKS!" people?
Nope. Not at all. I said in the last page that the MLS is a great league for a lot of things. But being the home clubs for our National team is not one of them.


So should Donovan have always been left off?

Who do you start instead of Zimmerman?

It would be great if all of our guys played internationally but we aren't there yet.
We should make it a standard.


Now, lets go beat Iran 3-0.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.
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OregonAggie
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In reply to agsalaska • 11:49p, 11/25/22
AG
agsalaska said:
OregonAggie said:
agsalaska said:
PatAg said:
agsalaska said:
PatAg said:
DeangeloVickers said:
MLS players can't play with the big boys. We need more European starters in 4 years
Or, we need it to be YOUNG MLS players, who haven't moved to Europe yet but are on that path.
If that makes sense
I disagree. They should not be representing the US in the WC if they are not international players. That should be a basic standard with very few exceptions.
I'm implying they are international players in my sentence. I'm guessing you are just one of those "MLS SUCKS!" people?
Nope. Not at all. I said in the last page that the MLS is a great league for a lot of things. But being the home clubs for our National team is not one of them.


So should Donovan have always been left off?

Who do you start instead of Zimmerman?

It would be great if all of our guys played internationally but we aren't there yet.
We should make it a standard.


Now, lets go beat Iran 3-0.


It is the standard but we aren't there yet, even with as much as you or I want us to be.

We started 1 guy that plays in the MLS in this World Cup so far. It was much higher in previous world cups. At least at this point, MLS players are basically just our depth players.

I'd be surprised in 2026 of our entire starting lineup and also at least 2/3 of our WC roster isn't European based. I damn well hope so!
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Rudyjax
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In reply to PatAg • 1:17a, 11/26/22
AG
PatAg said:
Chuck Cunningham said:
It's going to be hard to get the best athletes to play the best game if we tell them they have to leave the country to be the best.

You dont need "the best athletes", and its a bit silly to suggest our problem has anything to do with lacking athletes anyways.
I may have phrased that poorly. More of our best athletes is a better phrasing.

You cannot deny that more elite athletes play other sports. I think we'd have the talent of Brazil if this was the primary sport.
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fig96
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9:47a, 11/26/22
AG
The future is bright…

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Furlock Bones
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In reply to Rudyjax • 9:57a, 11/26/22
AG
Chuck Cunningham said:
PatAg said:
Chuck Cunningham said:
It's going to be hard to get the best athletes to play the best game if we tell them they have to leave the country to be the best.

You dont need "the best athletes", and its a bit silly to suggest our problem has anything to do with lacking athletes anyways.
I may have phrased that poorly. More of our best athletes is a better phrasing.

You cannot deny that more elite athletes play other sports. I think we'd have the talent of Brazil if this was the primary sport.


Quality of athlete is not why we aren't as good. It's quality and quantity of youth academy building. We don't have it. Europe has had for decades and decades. These kids are recruited into a club academy at single digits. They go to school and play soccer. The club pays their way. Now look at the US where kids have to get on elite travel teams that cost lots and lots of money and time for the families.
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Rudyjax
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In reply to Furlock Bones • 10:57a, 11/26/22
AG
Furlock Bones said:
Chuck Cunningham said:
PatAg said:
Chuck Cunningham said:
It's going to be hard to get the best athletes to play the best game if we tell them they have to leave the country to be the best.

You dont need "the best athletes", and its a bit silly to suggest our problem has anything to do with lacking athletes anyways.
I may have phrased that poorly. More of our best athletes is a better phrasing.

You cannot deny that more elite athletes play other sports. I think we'd have the talent of Brazil if this was the primary sport.


Quality of athlete is not why we aren't as good. It's quality and quantity of youth academy building. We don't have it. Europe has had for decades and decades. These kids are recruited into a club academy at single digits. They go to school and play soccer. The club pays their way. Now look at the US where kids have to get on elite travel teams that cost lots and lots of money and time for the families.


And your point really goes back to what I was saying. Not all of our highest potential players can/will go to Europe to be the best. That was my initial point because we don't have the ability to develop them.

And in reality, we're getting better. AFC Dallas latest homegrown signing is in his 2nd year as a pro and has been in the academy since 12. At u14/u15, his family hosted a player from the valley. The MLS next system is a great step in the right direction.

And going back to my point, if you want to play in the best league in the world I'm Football, baseball, hockey… you don't have to leave the country.

And until that changes, it's going to be hard to get the volume of elite athletes.
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tysker
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In reply to agsalaska • 11:00a, 11/26/22
AG
agsalaska said:
OregonAggie said:
agsalaska said:
PatAg said:
agsalaska said:
PatAg said:
DeangeloVickers said:
MLS players can't play with the big boys. We need more European starters in 4 years
Or, we need it to be YOUNG MLS players, who haven't moved to Europe yet but are on that path.
If that makes sense
I disagree. They should not be representing the US in the WC if they are not international players. That should be a basic standard with very few exceptions.
I'm implying they are international players in my sentence. I'm guessing you are just one of those "MLS SUCKS!" people?
Nope. Not at all. I said in the last page that the MLS is a great league for a lot of things. But being the home clubs for our National team is not one of them.


So should Donovan have always been left off?

Who do you start instead of Zimmerman?

It would be great if all of our guys played internationally but we aren't there yet.
We should make it a standard.


Now, lets go beat Iran 3-0.

Choose the best players regardless of league. Training matters but matches do as well. Ecuador has 3 MLS players on its roster. Mexico and Canada do pretty well with MLS players. Wales' best player plays in MLS.
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Rudyjax
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In reply to tysker • 11:10a, 11/26/22
AG
I know man. That goal he scored in the MLS cup was the biggest in his life. As a young boy, he dreamed of scoring in the MLS cup.

Or he wanted to live in California and play golf year round and get paid to play in a lower level league.

Seriously, , Canada is making best use of the MLS talent with the majority coming from 2 teams.

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littlebitofhifi
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In reply to tysker • 11:11a, 11/26/22
AG
Wales best player is in the MLS after SIXTEEN years and nearly 400 appearances in top flight football.
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Rudyjax
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In reply to littlebitofhifi • 11:12a, 11/26/22
AG
littlebitofhifi said:
Wales best player is in the MLS after SIXTEEN years and nearly 400 appearances in top flight football.


MLS Cup > European Cup
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AgRyan04
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11:13a, 11/26/22
Bale came to the MLS for a paycheck and an opportunity to get himself into game shape for the World Cup
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Rudyjax
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In reply to AgRyan04 • 11:14a, 11/26/22
AG
AgRyan04 said:
Bale came to the MLS for a paycheck and an opportunity to get himself into game shape for the World Cup


He wanted to play golf year round.
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tysker
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In reply to Rudyjax • 11:26a, 11/26/22
AG
Chuck Cunningham said:
AgRyan04 said:
Bale came to the MLS for a paycheck and an opportunity to get himself into game shape for the World Cup


He wanted to play golf year round.

Did he say that or are you projecting your opinions?
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AgRyan04
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In reply to tysker • 11:32a, 11/26/22
I don't care about this to have an argument about it.

The fact of the matter is that there are MLS players in the World Cup, but teams that are favorites to be contenders don't have any of them....or in Wales case they have one.

Go USA, beat Iran!
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agsalaska
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In reply to tysker • 11:35a, 11/26/22
AG
tysker said:
agsalaska said:
OregonAggie said:
agsalaska said:
PatAg said:
agsalaska said:
PatAg said:
DeangeloVickers said:
MLS players can't play with the big boys. We need more European starters in 4 years
Or, we need it to be YOUNG MLS players, who haven't moved to Europe yet but are on that path.
If that makes sense
I disagree. They should not be representing the US in the WC if they are not international players. That should be a basic standard with very few exceptions.
I'm implying they are international players in my sentence. I'm guessing you are just one of those "MLS SUCKS!" people?
Nope. Not at all. I said in the last page that the MLS is a great league for a lot of things. But being the home clubs for our National team is not one of them.


So should Donovan have always been left off?

Who do you start instead of Zimmerman?

It would be great if all of our guys played internationally but we aren't there yet.
We should make it a standard.


Now, lets go beat Iran 3-0.

Choose the best players regardless of league. Training matters but matches do as well. Ecuador has 3 MLS players on its roster. Mexico and Canada do pretty well with MLS players. Wales' best player plays in MLS.


With a few exceptions, the best players will be playing in the top European leagues. If they are not they probably are not our best players.

Like you said Matches matter. And playing week in week out with and against the top teams in Europe is preparation that cannot be replicated in the MLS.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.
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jeffk
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11:36a, 11/26/22
AG
Another way to look at it is that most national teams have a group of players that play in their domestic leagues. Our domestic league happens to be MLS and it's a decent enough league which is trending upwards from a developmental and quality of play standpoint.
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Rudyjax
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In reply to tysker • 11:36a, 11/26/22
AG
tysker said:
Chuck Cunningham said:
AgRyan04 said:
Bale came to the MLS for a paycheck and an opportunity to get himself into game shape for the World Cup


He wanted to play golf year round.

Did he say that or are you projecting your opinions?


No but it's been widely reported he's an avid golfer. Others have said it.

But to your point, I should've said "also."
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Gordo14
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In reply to Rudyjax • 11:59a, 11/26/22
Chuck Cunningham said:
tysker said:
Chuck Cunningham said:
AgRyan04 said:
Bale came to the MLS for a paycheck and an opportunity to get himself into game shape for the World Cup


He wanted to play golf year round.

Did he say that or are you projecting your opinions?


No but it's been widely reported he's an avid golfer. Others have said it.

But to your point, I should've said "also."

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Pahdz
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In reply to jeffk • 11:59a, 11/26/22
Another point to be made is that MLS has some players that are not good enough to make their home country's national team but ARE good enough to possibly make the USMNT.

The trend of MLS is up, AND our best Americans should be overseas. This argument gets tired and we should be open to a pool that is open to both.
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jeffk
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In reply to Pahdz • 12:02p, 11/26/22
AG
Nah, this is way too rational of a take.
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AgRyan04
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In reply to Pahdz • 12:19p, 11/26/22
That's a good point....Sabastian Driussi is a great example of that. He was an MVP finalist but doesn't have a cap with Argentina.
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