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***Running Thread***

78,117 Views | 513 Replies | Last: 17 days ago by wangus12
bmac_aggie18
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htxag09 said:

bmac_aggie18 said:

For those of you that live in Houston, what are some of your favorite spots to do sustained hill workouts?

Defined sustained?

I used to live 1/4 mile from tc jester and white oak so would do that one, going from white oak, up to tc jester, and up the bridge over the railroad. Not great with traffic but was convenient.

I think they did a pretty good job with the memorial park running track and land bridges. One is more conducive for running workouts. Will be an up and back, though.


Like something for a Marathon Hill-Training Workout.

I'm in the Heights so pretty familiar with all those, just curious if there's anything I don't know about (and willing to drive) where I could get some more elevation
K Bo
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Mount TC Jester has worked for me for hill repeats, but if you're looking for longer distance hill training I think you'll be relegated to a treadmill
TrumpsBarber
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The ubiquitous participation medals in races have cheapened the awards. As an illustration, a half-marathon race in East Texas 7 years ago gave out large medals to all of the finishers. The runners who placed in age groups each received a generic drinking glass with the race logo on it. So, all of the bling money was spent on the participation crap. I have been racing for 44 years and before I became competitive, I remember vividly being happy to run the race and get a t-shirt. Six years ago, I finished 2nd in my age group at the Cowtown Half-Marathon (6,256 runners) and received a small medal. ALL of the finishers got a very large medal. It is like crack cocaine for joggers who collect them and post them like fish on a stringer for FB.
bmac_aggie18
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Next marathon season I plan to run a 3:20-3:30 Marathon.

Any training plans anybody know of / recommend for about that pace?
Motot
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Jack Daniel's plans should be good depending on your background. Adjust training paces based on the charts based on your fitness level/ goal pace. 2 hard workouts a week vs 3 moderate workouts has been beneficial for me. Grab a used book off of amazon, etc if you really want to geek out. Good luck!
YokelRidesAgain
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bmac_aggie18 said:

Next marathon season I plan to run a 3:20-3:30 Marathon.

Any training plans anybody know of / recommend for about that pace?
You're going to find more plans based on your perceived 'level' as a runner and/or how many miles you want to run per week than plans specifically tailored for a certain pace.

If you Google "Runner's World 3:30 marathon" you'll find a couple of plans, but they assume that you have the baseline fitness to run a ~1:40 half marathon/45 minute 10K. After that it's really a matter of putting in the miles and not getting hurt.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
ptothemo
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What's your current PR and mileage base?

The specific plans matter from the perspective of time available, preference on workout structure (which is best informed by personal experience), and that sort of thing, but the most effective thing for me has been consistent mileage over long periods of time. The consistent mileage makes the engine bigger, and the marathon plan fine tunes the engine.

I personally follow an adapted version of Pfitzinger's 18/70 plan and have found that it works well for me, but I'm also confident that consistent and healthy mileage outside of the plan contributes more to my success more than the plan itself.
bmac_aggie18
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ptothemo said:

What's your current PR and mileage base?

The specific plans matter from the perspective of time available, preference on workout structure (which is best informed by personal experience), and that sort of thing, but the most effective thing for me has been consistent mileage over long periods of time. The consistent mileage makes the engine bigger, and the marathon plan fine tunes the engine.

I personally follow an adapted version of Pfitzinger's 18/70 plan and have found that it works well for me, but I'm also confident that consistent and healthy mileage outside of the plan contributes more to my success more than the plan itself.


Current PR is just a 1/2 Marathon at 1:40. During build I have worked up to 40 but right now I sit at 20-30 (coming back from a stress fracture in November).

Slowly working my way back up to be over 40 comfortably before I start a build late Summer for the Dallas Marathon. I've really been adopting the true zone 2 running and letting my HR exceed past 134 (29 yo male) 80% of the time and boy it's made a big difference with how fresh I am.
ptothemo
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My suggestion would be to run as much base mileage as you comfortably and healthily can between now and early July. I've had to come back from a stress fracture, so I know they're tough and can have a long tail (particularly mentally for me). I don't know how many days a week you are running, but I would encourage adding frequency and duration without adding any intensity for the next few months. Then, the marathon training will layer on intensity on top of the foundation of frequency and duration.

The specific plan you choose should be based on that frequency that you've established, and then you can scale duration within the plan based on the type of weekly mileage you've established. Training for a first marathon (and in lots of ways, marathons in general), in my opinion, is more about consistent time on feet and having the aerobic engine and mental fortitude to cover the distance than it is adhering to a specific workout structure.

I hope this helps some. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk directly and/or more.
Stive
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Any other advice (besides time on feet) to work through the mental battles as you get into the mid-teens on distance?

My daughter and I are training for the Cleveland marathon (mid May) right now and I STRUGGLED on the 15 mile this morning. The half two weeks ago wasn't too bad but the 12 the week before that was brutal as well.

I'm getting better at hydrating throughout the week, and managing my diet, so I think it's mostly the mental mountains I'm fighting right now.

Also, any advice for us as the weather continues to warm? I'm a bit nervous about the mid-April, longest training runs.
ptothemo
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My very favorite book when it comes to the mental side of athletics/endurance is "Do Hard Things" by Steve Magness. It is a practical and tangible guide to the mental conditioning aspect of training. He is also really well balanced when it comes to life, managing priorities, staying in community, etc. I like Goggins and Jocko and such, but the idea of "just grit up and get it done" isn't sustainable to me. Magness presents a framework that is grounded in vulnerability and sustainability. That is a more macro view I really like.

A more micro approach that I like is ACT, which stands for Acceptance Commitment Therapy. ACT is a psychology theory and practice, but it applies well outside of clinical practice. The basic summary is to accept things that happen to us (good and bad and easy and hard, but particularly bad and hard) and reframe them by committing to something we value. Thinking, talking, and acting from that mindset consistently has changed my running and positively impacted other parts of life. "Do Hard Things" includes detail and application in ACT, among other approaches.

Quick example is "this run is really hard at mile 16, and I'm struggling". ACT would tell me to accept that it's hard (it is) and accept I'm struggling (I am) but to reframe my approach to something that is intrinsically valuable to me (it's my longest training run yet, I'm part of a team effort with my daughter, there is more to this training program than just this mile, etc). As opposed to trying to change reality by telling myself "this isn't that hard" or something like that which causes distortion between perception and reality, I am changing what I am going to do about the reality.

Another thing I do is intentionally set my laps and alerts on my watch to 5k and 10k increments for long runs and races. I don't need or want a good/bad evaluation every mile and if my watch splits and buzzes, I am going to look. And if I look, I am going to evaluate. I'll even go as far as setting really weird lap increments to skip over miles or sections that I struggle with. I used to have a huge wall at mile 17 (like every training run), and I would intentionally skip the increments at 25k so that I went from 20k to 30k and tried to not even pay attention to my watch between them. I didn't want to know mile 17 was happening until it was over was the idea.

The long runs as it warms up are definitely tough. The couple of things that help me is to adjust pace as needed to make sure and get the mileage in. There are going to likely be days that are 20 to 30 seconds per mile slower than right now. It's just part of it. So, disconnect expectations from pace and attach them to completing the distance. I personally believe that running a prescribed 18 miles slower than "normal" is much more beneficial than blowing up after 14 miles due to running "faster". The other thing is to really up electrolytes during warmer runs. I use Salt Stick pills and chews liberally, and they really help. Most gels and the like don't have electrolytes, and I can't do all the sugar in sports drinks.

This is terribly long, but I really do love this stuff and can get rolling when I start. I hope that a piece or some of it helps in some way.
Stive
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Fantastic post and insight!

Thanks for cranking that out for me/us!
LayeredTrout
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Do you live in the Cleveland area? I am on the westside and have run both the half and the full.

It's a fun race!

Good thing is April is usually still relatively cold here. I don't remember too many long runs where it was hot - if it was warmer I would make sure to take extra water with me. But the biggest difference for me is how I fuel for the long runs - I always take gels for any long run.

There are some amazing places to go for long runs around the area too. My favorites are the tow path starting around Tremont and also Rocky River Reservation. I find getting out of the normal routes and trying something different can be huge for the mental component as well.

Good luck!
Stive
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No we're in East Texas.

Oldest daughter has a goal of running a marathon before she finishes high school this spring. Once she finished volleyball last fall she zeroed in on knocking this out by the end of May. The only weekend we could do it was mid-May so we landed on Cleveland. We're flying in that Friday; running it Sunday morning and flying out Sunday night.
bmac_aggie18
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On those mid teen long runs I either like to start early in the morning when it's still dark and finish just after the sun comes up or vice versa in the evening.

Watching the world wake up or go to bed is very peaceful to me and it helps keep the focus off of the mundane step pounding.

As far as the heat, not much we can do to avoid it in Texas but I do take gels every 4-5 miles, plan my runs around water fountains or stache an electrolyte bottle along the way. Our paces won't be as fast as when it's January, but if you Heart Rate Train in Zone 2, you're still getting the same aerobic benefit.
Ags2013
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London ballot opens tomorrow. I'm ready for rejection.
K Bo
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In for my L
Swarely
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Finished London today.

Had the worst training cycle I have ever had leading up to the race and had a come to Jesus talk with myself about a month ago. "No need to PR or ER. Just go out and enjoy the course". Then, on the plane ride over, some big oaf staggered and stomped on my right foot. It has been swollen my entire time here.

It got up to 70, which doesn't seem too bad (not even the hottest marathon I've done) but the Brits were dropping like flies. I've never seen anything so bad. Typically the weaving is at the start, but today it was at the end. Saw the first person on the ground at mile 17 and the count quickly escalated.

In any case, I finished in 3:54:13 and feel pretty great. It's way away from my PR, but it's actually my second fastest marathon and I was just having a good time.

5 stars down! Gotta figure out Boston next.
94chem
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Londoners when it gets over 70:

94chem,
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
Ags2013
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Which has been your favorite experience of the 5?

Also, congratulations!
Swarely
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New York by far!
howapi
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1.1 million people signed up for next year's London marathon lottery. Beyond ridiculous. They should at least require a valid credit card on file like Chicago.
Ags2013
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howapi said:

1.1 million people signed up for next year's London marathon lottery. Beyond ridiculous. They should at least require a valid credit card on file like Chicago.


It's insane that they don't. I guess they just want to report record entries.
ptothemo
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I am attempting to replace a pair of shoes and struggling to come up with ideas or find anything. I feel like I'm looking for a unicorn given current shoe design. I want to see if anyone has ideas or options I should look at.

I need to replace the Asics Magic Speed 3, which I use for track workouts and shorter threshold workouts. I really like them because the heel stack is 36mm, but it feels lower than that. They also have a carbon plate and are generally a lighter and sleeker profile than most plated shoes. The updated version 4 has a 43mm heel stack and is basically a different shoe.

The shoe I would like to find is 30-36mm heel stack, 6-10mm drop, plated, and with good ground contact and turning. Most any brand should be fine. I'm not too worried about money but would like to stay under the $220+ race day level.
bert harbinson
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Just going to throw a few suggestions out there.
Saucony Endorphin Pro and Endorphin Speed.
Puma Deviate Nitro 3 and Deviate Nitro Elite 3. All those are plated (Speed's is nylon) and meet your stack height/drop and price requirements. I've only run in the Speed.

For track and anything from easy to tempo pace, I use Saucony Kinvara 14 or New Balance Rebel 4. Kinvara has great ground feel and it works well for me on the track. Neither of these is plated, and I might categorize them as aggressive daily trainers, but they're priced in the $120-130 range, and I like that they come in 2E width.

ptothemo
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Thank you for the ideas and recommendations. I do love the Endorphin Speed and have gone through a couple pairs of the 3's. I have a pair of 4's in the closet when my current pair runs out.

I ended up ordering the Adidas Evo SL a few minutes ago. I've never worn Adidas shoes, but these fit the profile I am looking for well. They'll be here in a few days, and I'll give them a go.
wangus12
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Former Aggie football player Brian Williams died this weekend at 24 from heat stroke after attempting to run the Fiesta De Mayo Half Marathon in Irving.


Make sure you guys are staying safe out there as the temps and humidity start going up
CDub06
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Wow. I'd heard someone died in that race, but expected it to be a middle aged dude that didn't know what he was doing. It's very sad. But also scary that heat can attack even young, seasoned athletes.
YokelRidesAgain
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CDub06 said:

Wow. I'd heard someone died in that race, but expected it to be a middle aged dude that didn't know what he was doing. It's very sad. But also scary that heat can attack even young, seasoned athletes.
A guy I went to high school with had a cardiac arrest at the finish line of a half marathon in San Antonio a number of years ago, also from heat stroke. He was a sub-6 minute miler in high school and still looked to be in excellent shape in his mid-30s.

He survived, after a fashion, but had an anoxic brain injury and has never been able to care for himself since.

Be careful out there in the heat.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
AggieOO
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It can happen to anyone, not just middle aged overweight guys. Ryan Shay died in the Olympic marathon trials.
YokelRidesAgain
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Does anyone keep track of miles walked in addition to miles run in estimating the lifespan of a running shoe? I don't, starting to think that maybe I should.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Sweep4-2
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I always heard that it's bad to walk in running shoes, so as soon as the race/training is done my shoes are off and I'm barefoot or in slides.
Consistency: It's only a virtue if you're not a screw-up.
AggieOO
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I don't even track my miles on my running shoes. My knees tell me when the shoes are done. I put way more than the ~400miles that has long been the "standard" on shoes, especially on my trail shoes.

But I also only wear my running shoes for running.
wangus12
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Sweep4-2 said:

I always heard that it's bad to walk in running shoes, so as soon as the race/training is done my shoes are off and I'm barefoot or in slides.
Well I'm screwed then. I wear running shoes to work every day.
Ragoo
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Anyone have a recommendation for a good durable shoe for treadmill running? My hoka Mach x2s are not them
 
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