drumboy said:

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What's the solution here? Smaller paddocks with tighter controls over who gets in?

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Couple of solutions would work:

1. Use venues with actual seats instead of wide open festival standing areas.
2. Allow people to bring their own folding chairs (prevents the crowd from compressing)
3. not having 3-sided "paddocks".

When people in back are pushing, the crowd has nowhere to expand to. Crowds of people behave like fluids. If they are prevented from expanding on three sides and being compressed by the 4th side, extreme pressure can build up (used to our advantage by hydraulic construction machinery). If the crowd had been able to expand away from the stage out the back or if the pushing had been from the back and the crowd can expand out to the side away from the stage, there would've been fewer problems and maybe no deaths. I hope that those 3-sided paddocks get eliminated in all future festival concerts, or at least the ones where the average age of the attendees is under 25.

WES2006AG said:

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Bondag said:

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Ag_07 said:

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A mass casualty event at a concert is a bit more news worthy than a bad wreck across town.

I have no interest in Travis Scott but it's an interesting situation that's garnering national attention. I'd be following along regardless of who was performing.

Not to mention the ramifications this is going to have (justified or not) on concerts and festivals moving forward.

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I assume it was coke with too much fentanyl or people just trying to be cool at the concert that did not know what they were getting into.

In other cities this is probably a tuesday afternoon, but with a bunch of suburban kids at once that are not in the typical OD category it is a big deal.

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Has it not been confirmed that these people died of crush injuries? I know that there were ODs but I don't think that was more of a problem than a normal music festival.

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Does it matter? I'm sure Dora will count them as Covid deaths.

agnerd said:

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drumboy said:

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What's the solution here? Smaller paddocks with tighter controls over who gets in?

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Couple of solutions would work:

1. Use venues with actual seats instead of wide open festival standing areas.
2. Allow people to bring their own folding chairs (prevents the crowd from compressing)
3. not having 3-sided "paddocks".

When people in back are pushing, the crowd has nowhere to expand to. Crowds of people behave like fluids. If they are prevented from expanding on three sides and being compressed by the 4th side, extreme pressure can build up (used to our advantage by hydraulic construction machinery). If the crowd had been able to expand away from the stage out the back or if the pushing had been from the back and the crowd can expand out to the side away from the stage, there would've been fewer problems and maybe no deaths. I hope that those 3-sided paddocks get eliminated in all future festival concerts, or at least the ones where the average age of the attendees is under 25.

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I can say with total confidence that folding chairs at this kind of concert would not have been a good idea.

I've heard for sometime that crowds are very accurately modeled like flowing water. Many times in stadium concourses there may be a pillar in the way that is there only to help breakup the crowd flow and slow things down. The point being that crowd control is a science and in 2021 a tragedy like this is completely predictable by someone knowledgeable.

After this happened in Cincinnati decades ago they banned general admission events for many, many years. That was a perfectly reasonable response at that time. I don't think something that extreme is a must this time around, but I think if you want general admission at your event in Harris county going forward you need to have a plan signed off on by a 3rd party that knows what they are doing. We can't have this happen again. Live Nation and Travis Scott just ruined it for promotors that want to self-certify. Of course with our bold and no-nonsense leadership nothing will happen other than a lot of CYA.

Head Ninja In Charge said:

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agnerd said:

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drumboy said:

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What's the solution here? Smaller paddocks with tighter controls over who gets in?

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Couple of solutions would work:

1. Use venues with actual seats instead of wide open festival standing areas.
2. Allow people to bring their own folding chairs (prevents the crowd from compressing)
3. not having 3-sided "paddocks".

When people in back are pushing, the crowd has nowhere to expand to. Crowds of people behave like fluids. If they are prevented from expanding on three sides and being compressed by the 4th side, extreme pressure can build up (used to our advantage by hydraulic construction machinery). If the crowd had been able to expand away from the stage out the back or if the pushing had been from the back and the crowd can expand out to the side away from the stage, there would've been fewer problems and maybe no deaths. I hope that those 3-sided paddocks get eliminated in all future festival concerts, or at least the ones where the average age of the attendees is under 25.

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I can say with total confidence that folding chairs at this kind of concert would not have been a good idea.

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Below is a list of crushes or stampedes in history. It has been over 10 years in the US since the last death from a stampede and 30 years for a crowd crush, which is why this is newsworthy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_stampedes_and_crushes

Teddy Perkins said:

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Being reported that the 22 year old Aggie is declared brain-dead.

https://nypost.com/2021/11/10/astroworld-victim-bharti-shahani-declared-brain-dead-from-injury-reports/

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Bharti Shahani, the 22-year-old Texas A&M University senior who had been hospitalized after the Astroworld Festival, has died, becoming the ninth concertgoer to lose his or her life from the Travis Scott show six days ago.

Source.

From what I was reading it looks like the 9 year old isn't doing well in a coma. Ignore the fact it's a 9 year old. I'm sure he asked his dad if he could go to the concert. Dad decided to take him. Friday night, no school etc. Never in their mind did the think this would happen. The dad had the kid on his shoulders. Next thing dad remembers is waking up in the medical tent.

I would probably put money on the dad wanting to go and decided to take his 9 yo along with him.

I can't imagine a 9 yo would want and ask to go to a concert. Not typically something a 9 yo wants to do on his own.

Incredibly sad either way

Here

Quote:

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HOUSTON The family of a 22-year-old Texas A&M student who was battling for her life after the Astroworld Festival crowd surge said Bharti Shahani has died.

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tk for tu juan said:

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Below is a list of crushes or stampedes in history. It has been over 10 years in the US since the last death from a stampede and 30 years for a crowd crush, which is why this is newsworthy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_stampedes_and_crushes

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There are some lessons there -- don't ever go to Hajj in Mecca, or really any Muslim pilgrimage holiday anywhere, and don't go to any big international futball games in other countries.

Also, if a Roman soldier moons you, brush it off and take a joke.

And never get involved in a land war in Asia.

tk for tu juan said:

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During the Saturday press conf when the police chief was originally talking about the security guard, the lady behind him looked like she wanted the chief to shut up and not mention it.

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Especially after he and Sly lectured everyone to not believe what's being reported on social media. Then, he reports something as factual when it's just another social media story itself. I'd say I'm amazed but I'm not.

Ag_07 said:

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I would probably put money on the dad wanting to go and decided to take his 9 yo along with him.

I can't imagine a 9 yo would want and ask to go to a concert. Not typically something a 9 yo wants to do on his own.

Incredibly sad either way

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Travis Scott directly markets to children, he had a live concert in fortnite, and kids were able to get a Travis Scott fortnite emote. He partnered with McDonalds and had his own happy meal too: https://corporate.mcdonalds.com/corpmcd/en-us/our-stories/article/PromotionsAndDeals.travis-scott-launch.html

**** these companies for exposing children to this sociopath

Reminiscent of the Harding Street raid, when Sylvester Turner and a different chief were so anxious to get in front of the camera and start talking before they had a clue what had happened. Can't pass up that precious TV exposure! And now they've got Lina Hidalgo anxiously at standby to join in the circus.

The press conference with Bhati's family this afternoon was absolutely heartbreaking. One thing they mentioned is that Bhati planned to take care of her family financially after graduation because both her parents have health issues. Please consider donating to her family: https://www.gofundme.com/f/bharti-shahanis-astroworld-recovery-fund

Here.

Harry Lime said:

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And never get involved in a land war in Asia.

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And never go in against Sicilian when DEATH is on the line!!!

Crazy how often this has happened

I can't imagine how that dad feels, whether it was his idea or the kids, he was spending time with kid and never could have expected to go to a concert and have people die whether you agree with his choice of music or not. 9 year old Keeper would have been ecstatic to do something like go to a popular concert with my Dad.

Keeper of The Spirits said:

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Crazy how often this has happened

I can't imagine how that dad feels, whether it was his idea or the kids, he was spending time with kid and never could have expected to go to a concert and have people die whether you agree with his choice of music or not. 9 year old Keeper would have been ecstatic to do something like go to a popular concert with my Dad.

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Lets be real Dad went there for him not the kid.

People keep saying that but if you have taken your kid to a big concert like this you know it's a hell of a lot of work, also the kid had to have a ticket which was like 350 bucks a price a babysitter could easily be had for, if he wanted to go to the concert that bad he could have left the kid at home, which probably isn't a great idea depending on the 10 year old but would have been much easier than having him there

We take our kids to ACL because it's free, can't imagine dropping $350 to take them

https://www.yahoo.com/news/houston-fire-department-logs-state-172540177.html

Fox reporting 5k or 10% of the crowd snuck in, I'd imagine that's significant

ABC13 doing a fluff piece on the dad who took his 9-yr old -who is now on life support - to a Travis Scott concert is ridiculous.

Dude, you're a sh**ty parent. Not a hero.

And the fact that Ben Crump is representing you only helps prove my point.

Anybody remember the days when you could bring a ice chest to Astroworld but you had to check it before going in the gates?

35 years later 9 people getting trampled to death in the astroworld parking lot.

Got 4-million people in the houston area now. Can you imagine what Astroworld would be like today?

I don't get this beef you have with the dad, this guy made a a decision that will haunt the guy for the rest of his life and you want to pile on, on an Internet forum.

You know exactly three 3 things about this dad 1. He took his kid to a concert you don't approve of for children (an artist who markets to kids) 2. He hired an attorney who is prominent in his community 3. What he looks like (I am sure that has nothing to do with your analysis though)

I pray you never make a mistake as a parent. I pray none of us ever make a mistake that costs any of our children their lives.

Want to get to know this dad a little more check out his Instagram, you won't agree with everything on it but it clearly shows an active single dad

https://instagram.com/tshocking?utm_medium=copy_link

What you will see is he likes to go out, several videos of him and his son dancing to Travis Scott, appears to be a Christian, likes Candace Owens (I imagine you have that in common), likes shoes, loves his kids, also like monster trucks in addition to Travis Scott, was trying to better himself during Covid and expressed the opinion that it was time to open the economy back up post Covid.