Different issue. And Macy's predates me. However, since this new council was seated City land sales to the private sector have more than offset, by far, any premium paid for Macy's. I've requested that report, too. Taxpayers will be pleasantly surprised, in my opinion. And I won't be surprised at all if this staff turns Macy's into a winner. Give them and us the benefit of the doubt. This is a new team and a good dynamic. I'm excited about the future of our city, and hoping for a new era of cooperation with our cities. We need each other. My $.02
College Station can save money and run sewage through Bryan
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Last: 4 mo ago by Roxie146
I agree with this. It just seems odd that after all the past multi-million dollar real estate purchases the city has made that spending an extra $3.8 million on adequate sewage is now such a big deal.happyinBCS said:
Thank you for being on the record with your No vote on the Rosemary drive project. Maybe the council could sell the Macy's property they should have never bought for enough gain to make up the difference. I viewed the property on LoopNet prior to COCS purchasing it and I think it was listed around 7 million I don't know what we (the taxpayers paid for it) but thanks again for your wise decision on the project and possibly other council members will also be a NO vote
It's not just about the trees. It has much more to do with elected representatives of College Station even considering an option that will only benefit the utility bills of their constituents, to the detriment of Bryan citizens that are not represented by CS council members.
Both cities have a decades long history of utilizing each other's right of way, easements, and property to accomplish their respective infrastructure needs. I respectfully disagree with your comment and the known facts are contrary to your statement. There are in fact other projects in the works right now. There always will be. We are growing too fast and share too much border. It's not audacity, it's necessity, and with some high profile exceptions we've largely cooperated everywhere we had to and both sides were happy to do it. This one devolved into one of the exceptions. There was no ill intent. Inferring so has largely created this situation. Continuing to will only make it harder to resolve.
I understand that. In this case you have an alternative option that comes with a price tag. CS city staff would suggest that it's much easier to foot that bill on the backs of Bryan residents.
Impacted residents would have had no bill. Rather they would have been compensated in the form of easement payments or payments for any lost trees.
Bob Yancy said:
Impacted residents would have had no bill. Rather they would have been compensated in the form of easement payments or payments for any lost trees.
It's not just about the money to them, but I'm sure they have made that known.
Bryan has its own city council members, it's not like it's an unincorporated community that CS can just push around. Who is representing Rosemary Drive? What have they said on the issue?BryanTexan said:
It's not just about the trees. It has much more to do with elected representatives of College Station even considering an option that will only benefit the utility bills of their constituents, to the detriment of Bryan citizens that are not represented by CS council members.
Yes I know and respect their concerns and have heard them directly. I was responding to BryanTexan's comment regarding footing any bill. They of course would not.
Footing the bill as I mentioned is not referring to the monetary compensation for any loss of trees or occurrences of eminent domain, rather the $3.8 million in savings College Station would gain at the disservice of the residents of Beverley Estates.
When this was originally presented as open trench I could see how the city could expect some cost savings. However, open trench is the most detrimental to trees/rosemary drive so I'm guessing that's why bore pits are being discussed.
BUT, if we've already conceded to boring the line, why bother boring a massive gravity line at all? Why route it through Beverly estates when boring allows for more direction/depth control and you could feasibly take any route? I'd love to see the cost benefit analysis (I only hear about this project from this thread so maybe it's out there) but I'd bet there's not even significant cost savings to do it this way vs upgrading the lift station and boring smaller diameter force main lines.
I'm also guessing that's part of the reason Bob is a no. If open trench is off the table (it should be) then what's the point of this political headache.
BUT, if we've already conceded to boring the line, why bother boring a massive gravity line at all? Why route it through Beverly estates when boring allows for more direction/depth control and you could feasibly take any route? I'd love to see the cost benefit analysis (I only hear about this project from this thread so maybe it's out there) but I'd bet there's not even significant cost savings to do it this way vs upgrading the lift station and boring smaller diameter force main lines.
I'm also guessing that's part of the reason Bob is a no. If open trench is off the table (it should be) then what's the point of this political headache.
You still need an easement if you bore or directional drill. You can't just go anywhere you want because you aren't trenching.
Not what I was implying, but you can change direction easier (to follow the path of existing easements) and you can adjust depth easier allowing path decisions to be more independent of existing terrain.
My understanding was Rosemary was originally pitched because it naturally followed the flow they wanted the line to take. That matters less when shooting a bore.
My understanding was Rosemary was originally pitched because it naturally followed the flow they wanted the line to take. That matters less when shooting a bore.
If everyone was truly interested in what's best for taxpayers, merge the cities. The cost savings would be enormous. Same with the school districts. Imagine if it all merged with the County bureaucracy! No more boondoggle like the Green Prairie Road insanity (a few hundred yards between two new 4 lane sections because of a lack of coordination). It'll never happen. No government bureaucracy has ever voluntarily reduced itself. Governments survive off of the taxpayer while making us believe they are indispensable and if only there was more of it, taxpayers would be better off. Our Founders believed in limited government. They wouldn't recognize what they created.
AG81 said:
If everyone was truly interested in what's best for taxpayers, merge the cities. The cost savings would be enormous. Same with the school districts. Imagine if it all merged with the County bureaucracy! No more boondoggle like the Green Prairie Road insanity (a few hundred yards between two new 4 lane sections because of a lack of coordination). It'll never happen. No government bureaucracy has ever voluntarily reduced itself. Governments survive off of the taxpayer while making us believe they are indispensable and if only there was more of it, taxpayers would be better off. Our Founders believed in limited government. They wouldn't recognize what they created.
White flight will never permit it.
Rosemary was pitched because it is just across the street from the planned abandonment of the lift station as well as the planned abandonment of the sewer lines feeding Cooner Street.
It was proximity. Just like the discarded Pin Oak plan. Proximity.
If a gravity fed sewer line was such a great idea - why wasn't it done in the 70's and 80's when the area around Cooner, Hensel Park, Texas/ University, Married student Housing.;... was built. If the reason was to stay within CoCS city limits then - then continue to do so.
With regards to boring - we have learned, because we ask experts, that directional boring long lengths is particularly hard especially if you are depending on grade to gravity feed. The longer the bore the harder it is to keep the correct grade. Boring companies are kept to tighter tolerances with gravity fed lines.
Many directional drilling boring companies refuse to do long gravity fed sewer lines because of this. They can not meet the tolerances. They can drill under the Mississippi River - but not for gravity sewer lines.
It is not as important for correct grade if it is a force main via a lift station because by definition the lift station provides pressure vs grade for sewer to flow through lines.
I have learned more about sewer lines in the last few months than I ever thought I would need to know.
You just have to ask the right questions and depend on the experts to tell you the facts.
Every ml of sewer has to be lifted to get to the treatment plant. The idea that they are a risk is not rational especially in this era of technology.
The original plan was to rehab and increase the lift station, rehab the Cooner Street sewer lines (which was completed) and connect to a rehab of the existing sewer lines behind Albertsons and between Chimney Hill and Bryan.
Now they need additional capacity to service Northgate Highrises, Cooner Street midrises and Century Square/Hensel Park development. All with positive tax, HOT, and retail business benefits to College Station.
College Station apparently agreed to give part of the HOT funds to help fund the building of Kyle Field.
Maybe it is time that A&M return the favor. It is the growth around A&M that is fueling the need for additional capacity. So why should A&M not be a good neighbor and participate in the infrastructure needs they are complicit in generating.
I find that their silence in this is deafening. They could broker a resolution easily - but all we hear are crickets.
It was proximity. Just like the discarded Pin Oak plan. Proximity.
If a gravity fed sewer line was such a great idea - why wasn't it done in the 70's and 80's when the area around Cooner, Hensel Park, Texas/ University, Married student Housing.;... was built. If the reason was to stay within CoCS city limits then - then continue to do so.
With regards to boring - we have learned, because we ask experts, that directional boring long lengths is particularly hard especially if you are depending on grade to gravity feed. The longer the bore the harder it is to keep the correct grade. Boring companies are kept to tighter tolerances with gravity fed lines.
Many directional drilling boring companies refuse to do long gravity fed sewer lines because of this. They can not meet the tolerances. They can drill under the Mississippi River - but not for gravity sewer lines.
It is not as important for correct grade if it is a force main via a lift station because by definition the lift station provides pressure vs grade for sewer to flow through lines.
I have learned more about sewer lines in the last few months than I ever thought I would need to know.
You just have to ask the right questions and depend on the experts to tell you the facts.
Every ml of sewer has to be lifted to get to the treatment plant. The idea that they are a risk is not rational especially in this era of technology.
The original plan was to rehab and increase the lift station, rehab the Cooner Street sewer lines (which was completed) and connect to a rehab of the existing sewer lines behind Albertsons and between Chimney Hill and Bryan.
Now they need additional capacity to service Northgate Highrises, Cooner Street midrises and Century Square/Hensel Park development. All with positive tax, HOT, and retail business benefits to College Station.
College Station apparently agreed to give part of the HOT funds to help fund the building of Kyle Field.
Maybe it is time that A&M return the favor. It is the growth around A&M that is fueling the need for additional capacity. So why should A&M not be a good neighbor and participate in the infrastructure needs they are complicit in generating.
I find that their silence in this is deafening. They could broker a resolution easily - but all we hear are crickets.
You have learned a lot!
And that's a good point about the added difficulty of maintaining grade when boring a gravity line. Another cost that I think adds to the "why waste political capital on this" calculus council is considering.
And that's a good point about the added difficulty of maintaining grade when boring a gravity line. Another cost that I think adds to the "why waste political capital on this" calculus council is considering.
My first 'boss' in the post graduation world had a favorite saying..."Quit majoring on the minor". To me it's laughable that with the multiple tens of millions of dollars of planned and ongoing development in the Northgate, Hensel Park and Century Square areas, COS is still hemming and hawing about spending 3.8 million dollars and ongoing maintenance for the lift station to service those areas. Get off the pot, write the check for the lift station, and continue the mutual cooperation between the two cities that will be needed in the future,
It's not rocket science, people.
It's not rocket science, people.
Yeah, well, sometimes nothing is a real cool hand
Has any decision been made on this project?
Last night in the Bryan City Council meeting, Mayor Gutierrez referenced a recent discussion with Chancellor Sharp regarding the lift station in Hensel Park. Apparently Chancellor Sharp reiterated that they (the System) has no problem with the lift station and it is of no issue to the expansion of Century Square and that it was needed for Northgate development.
This is all well and good.
However, this passive position on the part of TAMU ignores fundamental parity - or the chicken and the egg problem.
If the mere existence of TAMU was not driving the development of Northgate, Hensel Park, and the Texas/University redevelopment then, yes, TAMU could remain a passive entity in this discussion.
BUT this is not the case.
TAMU's existence in this community is supposed to be symbiotic relationship. If the relationships are not beneficial to all then this relationship is broken.
TAMU is benefitting from over $1B in funding - that is a B not an M
At the same time the CoCS helped TAMU in the funding of Kyle Field (HOT tax)
Both cities benefit from the tourism, students, retail, restaurants…….that support TAMU sports etc…..
Why then could TAMU not be an active participant in resolving what is turning in to a discussion that is about a $1M short fall (according to CoCS) in funding for a lift station?
The big elephant in the room is TAMU - and TAMU needs to step up and help the communities right on their doorsteps.
Politically it would be a boon to TAMU and the legacy of John Sharp, to broker a resolution and it certainly would help tone down the animosities growing between the 2 cities.
We really don't live in just 2 communities - we also have a behemoth right smack in the middle that has tentacles out in to both of our cities. It really is time for that behemoth to be a mutually beneficial partner - a giver vs a taker. For a true symbiotic relationship to occur, TAMU needs to give as well as take.
From RELLIS to the main campus, TAMU needs surrounding infrastructure to support its own development. Both cities are responding to that.
Without the surrounding cities - and county! - TAMU would not be what it is today - where would the students live, where would its workforce come from ……
It is time that TAMU helps back.
This is all well and good.
However, this passive position on the part of TAMU ignores fundamental parity - or the chicken and the egg problem.
If the mere existence of TAMU was not driving the development of Northgate, Hensel Park, and the Texas/University redevelopment then, yes, TAMU could remain a passive entity in this discussion.
BUT this is not the case.
TAMU's existence in this community is supposed to be symbiotic relationship. If the relationships are not beneficial to all then this relationship is broken.
TAMU is benefitting from over $1B in funding - that is a B not an M
At the same time the CoCS helped TAMU in the funding of Kyle Field (HOT tax)
Both cities benefit from the tourism, students, retail, restaurants…….that support TAMU sports etc…..
Why then could TAMU not be an active participant in resolving what is turning in to a discussion that is about a $1M short fall (according to CoCS) in funding for a lift station?
The big elephant in the room is TAMU - and TAMU needs to step up and help the communities right on their doorsteps.
Politically it would be a boon to TAMU and the legacy of John Sharp, to broker a resolution and it certainly would help tone down the animosities growing between the 2 cities.
We really don't live in just 2 communities - we also have a behemoth right smack in the middle that has tentacles out in to both of our cities. It really is time for that behemoth to be a mutually beneficial partner - a giver vs a taker. For a true symbiotic relationship to occur, TAMU needs to give as well as take.
From RELLIS to the main campus, TAMU needs surrounding infrastructure to support its own development. Both cities are responding to that.
Without the surrounding cities - and county! - TAMU would not be what it is today - where would the students live, where would its workforce come from ……
It is time that TAMU helps back.
If you think Sharp cares for a second what you, or I, or anyone in the greater Microplex thinks about him, then my money is on you've never met the guy.
Just pointing that out.
Just pointing that out.
This discussion started in February how long will it take to make a decision and start moving forward? It seems to me it is not something that is a high priority, or the decision would have been made long ago
Hornbeck said:
I've been saying for a while, this is pretty much a done deal. I know a lot of folks want otherwise, but I'm thinking CS gets their way in the end.
Hmmmmm. What would be a reason to slow roll this? Election year? Hmmmmm.
One can always hope.
I think this is a reasonably fair opinion. I know this trunk line is being built to service Century Square Phase II and Hensel Park, and I trust our staff when they tell me that directly. Therefore, this morning's article in the Eagle is disappointing. Have to call it as I see it. Texas A&M's leadership is visionary, with the rare ability to deliver on the vision. I applaud their unprecedented accomplishments, and I'm deeply appreciative. I am also of the opinion that our beloved Alma mater's home city could use some attention, too. Student Housing, infrastructure and facilities access are a few areas that could benefit from mutual support. My $.02 as one citizen.
This is the KBTX link to the College Station council meeting that had a presentation from Rosemary homeowners discussing the two routes - Rosemary and Chimney Hill.
College Station City Council hears multiple items of interest during Thursday night's meeting (kbtx.com).
This is the slide they showed on the 10PM news at the 2.09 point
The slide shows a side by side comparison of the two routes - the presentation also pointed out that the costs for the Rosemary route is $728,000.00 higher than the Chimney Hill route even with the lift station included.
CoCS will probably try to spin the cost differences by saying economies of scale can reduce costs but in this case the linear foot cost is the same AND for every additional foot (Rosemary) construction costs actually increase because of the need to maintain and prove slope as well as the additional bore pits required for manholes. The longer the route the more bore pits, the more manholes. And inspection costs rise for the contractor to prove slope.
College Station City Council hears multiple items of interest during Thursday night's meeting (kbtx.com).
This is the slide they showed on the 10PM news at the 2.09 point
The slide shows a side by side comparison of the two routes - the presentation also pointed out that the costs for the Rosemary route is $728,000.00 higher than the Chimney Hill route even with the lift station included.
CoCS will probably try to spin the cost differences by saying economies of scale can reduce costs but in this case the linear foot cost is the same AND for every additional foot (Rosemary) construction costs actually increase because of the need to maintain and prove slope as well as the additional bore pits required for manholes. The longer the route the more bore pits, the more manholes. And inspection costs rise for the contractor to prove slope.
I still do not see why College Station can not build a lift station. I read somewhere that they are planning on building a lift station at Carter Lake in the subdivision off of Rock Prairie Rd. They have a sewage area back there by the lake but down a hill on the other side of it. Like usual, when you go back and try to find where I read it I can't.
Here you go
So yes apparently lift stations are ok when you need them but dangerous otherwise.
So yes apparently lift stations are ok when you need them but dangerous otherwise.
as I mentioned upstream, we have built 5 brand new lift stations for CoCS since 2017, so any talk by CoCS that they are against lift stations is rich......very rich.Roxie146 said:
Here you go
So yes apparently lift stations are ok when you need them but dangerous otherwise.
What is even more rich - College Station wants to develop the University/Texas corner. They have compared buildings there to ones already in Northgate - Highrises -700 beds and more.
Where is THAT sewage going? - Under their proposed Rosemary route - there are no sewer lines connecting that corner to the trunk line they want to construct.
Instead they are going to use Cooner street which was increased to a 30 inch line but which decreases to an existing 12 inch line. A 12 inch line is not going to serve high rises. What are they thinking?
Once again College Station is not being proactive. They have increased infrastructure needs but are not planning for it.
They need to plan and construct for the future development of that corner and development - the only way is to connect Cooner to a large trunk line through Chimney Hill to serve that area as well as the existing Northgate and Hensel Park.
That was the plan originally - that is why Cooner was enlarged - but for some reason the current city manager continues to bemoan lift stations and tries to convince any who will listen (but not question) that lift stations are dangerous -
Where is THAT sewage going? - Under their proposed Rosemary route - there are no sewer lines connecting that corner to the trunk line they want to construct.
Instead they are going to use Cooner street which was increased to a 30 inch line but which decreases to an existing 12 inch line. A 12 inch line is not going to serve high rises. What are they thinking?
Once again College Station is not being proactive. They have increased infrastructure needs but are not planning for it.
They need to plan and construct for the future development of that corner and development - the only way is to connect Cooner to a large trunk line through Chimney Hill to serve that area as well as the existing Northgate and Hensel Park.
That was the plan originally - that is why Cooner was enlarged - but for some reason the current city manager continues to bemoan lift stations and tries to convince any who will listen (but not question) that lift stations are dangerous -
just checking if there is any new information on this. I sure would have thought a decision would have been made by now, no matter when the work would start.
CoCS Staffers Planning is somewhat akin to people not being able to find their posterior with both hands and a map, IMHO.
If I wasn't footing the bill for it, I'd laugh.
If I wasn't footing the bill for it, I'd laugh.
Stay tuned. More info coming. CoCS had a meeting with Chimney Hill residents July 31 - very interesting information.
Is it public? Why do we have to wait?
They did not release the info to the public - only people who were invited or who went to the meeting were given the information.