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Officer involved shooting off Spring Loop (February 8, 2023)

38,071 Views | 209 Replies | Last: 9 days ago by CS78
damiond
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gettingitdone said:

CSPD doesn't owe the public the body cam footage.


why? we pay their salaries and for the equipment

there need to be a very good reason for not doing so especially when the government takes a citizens life
damiond
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correct me if im wrong on these facts we know to date
police were looking for cannabis
at fourplexs on spring loop
predawn announced raid
deceased fired shotgun
deceased was not on the warrant
deceased was a roommate
deceased had no criminal record
the person on the warrant has not been charged

do we know if it was an upstairs or downstairs apartment because iirc the front door of the upstairs apartments open up to a stairway and the residents may have only heard commotion and could not discern the police announcement


MyNameIsJeff
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AG
Buford T. Justice said:

I'll be damned. They lived in "that house."
You know the one that looks like either the Munsters or Adams Family must have lived there years ago.
Haha my thoughts exactly. Always seemed like a strange property with lots of vehicles.
Kbeauty63
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AG
damiond said:


do we know if it was an upstairs or downstairs apartment because iirc the front door of the upstairs apartments open up to a stairway and the residents may have only heard commotion and could not discern the police announcement



these are 'townhouses' all connected in a row. There are a couple that have 2nd stories - but it's part of an individual unit. I'm thinking this is also the units where a A&M football (former or current I'm not sure which) was busted several weeks ago.
Bunk Moreland
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[We are not going to allow rumors to derail threads on this board. -Staff]
trouble
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AG
Do we know all those things though? I've seen a couple people here posting that but not in any reports I've read.
Another Doug
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trouble said:

Do we know all those things though? I've seen a couple people here posting that but not in any reports I've read.
If the guy they killed had a warrant or a criminal record they wouldn't sit on it.
BluHorseShu
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AG
damiond said:

correct me if im wrong on these facts we know to date
police were looking for cannabis
at fourplexs on spring loop
predawn announced raid
deceased fired shotgun
deceased was not on the warrant
deceased was a roommate
deceased had no criminal record
the person on the warrant has not been charged

do we know if it was an upstairs or downstairs apartment because iirc the front door of the upstairs apartments open up to a stairway and the residents may have only heard commotion and could not discern the police announcement



We need to wait for all the facts and not speculate. Its sad anyone was shot...but there have been multiple murders over just marijuana in BCS over the years. Until we hear otherwise, I support our local PD's.
lethalninja
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I don't know about warrants, but I checked the court records and he didn't have a criminal record except for a traffic charge that was dismissed. Also, since I didn't mention it earlier, the two people that were arrested for drugs are each facing up to 99 years, but it's extremely unlikely they'll get that long.
damiond
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deputy city manager jeff capps says no body cam footage will be released in the future in todays interview
https://wtaw.com/city-of-college-station-update-on-wtaw-163/
Another Doug
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damiond said:

deputy city manager jeff capps says no body cam footage will be released in the future in todays interview
https://wtaw.com/city-of-college-station-update-on-wtaw-163/
It's not really his call on what happens in the future. He did say the police will view it with the family, the family's reaction tell you a lot.
Stupe
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S
You consider the reactions of families in these situations as reliable?
Another Doug
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Stupe said:

You consider the reactions of families in these situations as reliable?
No, I am saying you will be able to tell a lot from thier reaction.
spike427
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According to Zillow, the property was listed for rent in the spring of 2021 for $1500/mo. So the owner may have no idea what was going on...
Stupe
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S
What will you be able to tell? I'm not being sarcastic.

jeffk
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AG
Is body cam footage excluded from public records requests of the City?
tb9665
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From what I found, the owner most likely did not know what was happening there because a LP owns it.
Koko Chingo
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damiond said:

deputy city manager jeff capps says no body cam footage will be released in the future in todays interview
https://wtaw.com/city-of-college-station-update-on-wtaw-163/
I believe the lack of transparency in the CSPD will come back to bite the chief. I am not specifically saying in this case; but, eventually.

99% or more of the body cam footage out their shows police in a good way; or in a way that make you see the challenges they face. The videos usually show police officers having a great deal of patience and restraint.

Those videos released on the regular help establish credibility. If an officer does ever get out of line; CSPD's history of not releasing footage would look like they were covering up. If there was a history of released footage, they can say its just one bad actor.

We had a suspicious death a couple of weeks ago at Wolf Pen Creek….. where is the update? All of these things happening with the PD saying, "There is no threat to the public" is getting old. Especially when dead bodies are found, -- in public.

lethalninja
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From the court records: Scott Michael Siddons, the man who was arrested for drugs, has misdemeanor convictions for theft, evading arrest, DWI, driving without insurance (two convictions) and driving while license invalid (three convictions).
Another Doug
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Stupe said:

What will you be able to tell? I'm not being sarcastic.


How much scrutiny the death should have. Their response could be anywhere from saying nothing, to lawyering up and screaming from the rooftops to release the tape. I am not saying you believe everything they say, but you can infer infromation from the response whatever it may be.
Stucco
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gettingitdone said:

CSPD doesn't owe the public the body cam footage.
The cops work in the public's name and use the public tax dollars to do it. They have authority because the public has delegated the authority to them. It is our responsibility, even our duty, to hold them accountable for their actions taken under that authority. In this case someone ended up dead, the ultimate deprivation of freedom. Bringing in an independent agency to investigate is a great move. Immediate suspension with pay is a great move. But neither of those things change where CSPD draws its authority from, or who is ultimately responsible for their actions.

The only reason to withhold footage is if it will affect the outcome of an ongoing investigation. This same principle was exercised when they withheld information that may have affected raids the next day. No problem. But we're past that now. A policy of never releasing body cam footage is in direct violation of the Texas Public Information Act. There is a loophole in that law where if no one is convicted, they don't have to released, so in this case, as long as they don't charge anyone in relation to this raid (or the other raids that were part of this investigation), they could exercise the loophole. It is unfortunate that they could possibly exercise a loophole due to killing the person that would have otherwise been charged and convicted.

And for the record, I think the footage will show the exemplary conduct of the CSPD, but that makes no difference in whether the public should be afforded the opportunity to review it.
Rapier108
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Koko Chingo said:

damiond said:

deputy city manager jeff capps says no body cam footage will be released in the future in todays interview
https://wtaw.com/city-of-college-station-update-on-wtaw-163/
I believe the lack of transparency in the CSPD will come back to bite the chief. I am not specifically saying in this case; but, eventually.

99% or more of the body cam footage out their shows police in a good way; or in a way that make you see the challenges they face. The videos usually show police officers having a great deal of patience and restraint.

Those videos released on the regular help establish credibility. If an officer does ever get out of line; CSPD's history of not releasing footage would look like they were covering up. If there was a history of released footage, they can say its just one bad actor.

We had a suspicious death a couple of weeks ago at Wolf Pen Creek….. where is the update? All of these things happening with the PD saying, "There is no threat to the public" is getting old. Especially when dead bodies are found, -- in public.
It is possible the death ended up being a suicide. (I have no info on that case, just a guess since suicides do get investigated to make sure foul play wasn't involved.) Generally they don't say much about those, out of respect for the family, and to not put the idea in someone else's head.

But I do agree the footage of this shooting should be released once the Texas Rangers have finished their investigation. Will probably take a FOIA request to get it. I don't think they're hiding anything, but rather just being stubborn and sticking with the policy first adopted when body cameras came about, and not updating it like many other departments have done.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
Brian Alg
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I am not a lawyer. But it is my understanding that sometimes these things don't get released because of the dead suspect loophole. Almost happened in last year's Uvalde shooting. But in this case, unless they are willing to let the suspects arrested at the other location off the hook in order to suppress the video (which would be a big red flag to me), they are going to have to release it eventually.

https://cobbxcounsel.com/2022/06/how-the-dead-suspect-loophole-lets-police-hide-records-from-the-public/
Brian Alg

Brazos Coalition for Responsible Government
Stupe
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S
Another Doug said:

Stupe said:

What will you be able to tell? I'm not being sarcastic.


How much scrutiny the death should have. Their response could be anywhere from saying nothing, to lawyering up and screaming from the rooftops to release the tape. I am not saying you believe everything they say, but you can infer infromation from the response whatever it may be.
No, you can't. We have seen that happen even when it's obvious the person was a threat to the public.
BluHorseShu
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AG
Stucco said:

gettingitdone said:

CSPD doesn't owe the public the body cam footage.
The cops work in the public's name and use the public tax dollars to do it. They have authority because the public has delegated the authority to them. It is our responsibility, even our duty, to hold them accountable for their actions taken under that authority. In this case someone ended up dead, the ultimate deprivation of freedom. Bringing in an independent agency to investigate is a great move. Immediate suspension with pay is a great move. But neither of those things change where CSPD draws its authority from, or who is ultimately responsible for their actions.

The only reason to withhold footage is if it will affect the outcome of an ongoing investigation. This same principle was exercised when they withheld information that may have affected raids the next day. No problem. But we're past that now. A policy of never releasing body cam footage is in direct violation of the Texas Public Information Act. There is a loophole in that law where if no one is convicted, they don't have to released, so in this case, as long as they don't charge anyone in relation to this raid (or the other raids that were part of this investigation), they could exercise the loophole. It is unfortunate that they could possibly exercise a loophole due to killing the person that would have otherwise been charged and convicted.

And for the record, I think the footage will show the exemplary conduct of the CSPD, but that makes no difference in whether the public should be afforded the opportunity to review it.
The investigation is no longer ongoing and its over? I would think the district attorney might also won't to hold off. So what is the threshold for enough of the public wanting it released? Or should they just release all bodycam footage whenever? Not snark, I'm genuinely curious. I could see it being only when some grievous action took place (murder, assault, etc) but seems like an administrative nightmare to release footage whenever anyone in 'the public' requests it. Again, I'm not familiar with SOPs....but then again...my life has been pretty good trusting the police.
damiond
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nevermind
Another Doug
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AG
Stupe said:

Another Doug said:

Stupe said:

What will you be able to tell? I'm not being sarcastic.


How much scrutiny the death should have. Their response could be anywhere from saying nothing, to lawyering up and screaming from the rooftops to release the tape. I am not saying you believe everything they say, but you can infer infromation from the response whatever it may be.
No, you can't. We have seen that happen even when it's obvious the person was a threat to the public.
I can, and I will. Your logic is a slippery slope, there have been cases where the police have obviosly lied about threats, it doesn't mean you should to stop listening to what all of them have to say.
Stucco
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BluHorseShu said:


The investigation is no longer ongoing and its over? I would think the district attorney might also won't to hold off. So what is the threshold for enough of the public wanting it released? Or should they just release all bodycam footage whenever? Not snark, I'm genuinely curious. I could see it being only when some grievous action took place (murder, assault, etc) but seems like an administrative nightmare to release footage whenever anyone in 'the public' requests it. Again, I'm not familiar with SOPs....but then again...my life has been pretty good trusting the police.
You are correct, the investigation could be continuing, but a prosecution is not the same as an investigation, and while possible, it is pretty unlikely that the body cam footage in question would be compromising any portion of the investigation that is continuing at this point.

That said, this is recent and I expect any release to take a while. I don't mind a few weeks or even a month. My issue is that CSPD somehow thinks they are never going to release it as a matter of CSPD policy, like it supersedes state law.

I'm sure public information requests are an administrative nightmare. But the transparency laws aren't in place for the convenience of the government. They are in place so the public can hold the government accountable.


Quote:

Sec. 552.001. POLICY; CONSTRUCTION. (a) Under the fundamental philosophy of the American constitutional form of representative government that adheres to the principle that government is the servant and not the master of the people, it is the policy of this state that each person is entitled, unless otherwise expressly provided by law, at all times to complete information about the affairs of government and the official acts of public officials and employees. The people, in delegating authority, do not give their public servants the right to decide what is good for the people to know and what is not good for them to know. The people insist on remaining informed so that they may retain control over the instruments they have created. The provisions of this chapter shall be liberally construed to implement this policy.

(b) This chapter shall be liberally construed in favor of granting a request for information.


Stupe
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S
Another Doug said:

Stupe said:

Another Doug said:

Stupe said:

What will you be able to tell? I'm not being sarcastic.


How much scrutiny the death should have. Their response could be anywhere from saying nothing, to lawyering up and screaming from the rooftops to release the tape. I am not saying you believe everything they say, but you can infer infromation from the response whatever it may be.
No, you can't. We have seen that happen even when it's obvious the person was a threat to the public.
I can, and I will. Your logic is a slippery slope, there have been cases where the police have obviosly lied about threats, it doesn't mean you should to stop listening to what all of them have to say.
You, personally, can.

I was using the general form of "you".

maroon barchetta
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The KBTX story on the warrant service at the big house on Greens Prairie made me laugh. And cry.

That kid they interviewed, who works across the street according to the story, said they didn't know anything about the house except that "a couple of old people live there".

They are younger than me.
oklaunion
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maroon barchetta said:

The KBTX story on the warrant service at the big house on Greens Prairie made me laugh. And cry.

That kid they interviewed, who works across the street according to the story, said they didn't know anything about the house except that "a couple of old people live there".


I laughed my butt off when he said that. Probably works at the donut shop.
PS3D
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Stucco said:


And for the record, I think the footage will show the exemplary conduct of the CSPD, but that makes no difference in whether the public should be afforded the opportunity to review it.


BS. Nobody is asking for the footage of this because it will show the "exemplary conduct of the CSPD", people want footage because it either it will show someone in the wrong or makes for good entertainment.
Stupe
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S
PS3D said:

Stucco said:


And for the record, I think the footage will show the exemplary conduct of the CSPD, but that makes no difference in whether the public should be afforded the opportunity to review it.


BS. Nobody is asking for the footage of this because it will show the "exemplary conduct of the CSPD", people want footage because it either it will show someone in the wrong or makes for good entertainment.
You just said "BS" to someone that said the same thing that you did.
Rapier108
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Quote:

BRYAN, Texas (KBTX) - The principal suspect in four, early morning searches by College Station police on Feb. 8 was a "high-level drug dealer" who has not been arrested, records show.

College Station police returned four warrants to the College Station Municipal Court on Monday, offering a clearer picture of the case that led to those searches, which left one person dead in an officer-involved shooting.

College Station Municipal Court Judge Ed Spillane signed all four warrants. He told KBTX that search warrants are required by law to be returned no later than three days after execution, meaning Monday was the final day for police to make the warrants available as public record.

Police previously disclosed searches on Greens Prairie Rd, Tranquil Path Drive, and Spring Loop to KBTX, but a fourth search at a storage facility in the 1700 block of Early Rudder Freeway is also detailed in the newly released records.

We also learned in Monday's records dump that the warrant issued for Greens Prairie Road was executed as a "No Knock" warrant. Police previously said the Spring Loop warrant was a "Knock and Announce" warrant but were not specifically questioned about the warrants executed elsewhere.

The warrants detail at least four accused "co-conspirators" in the case, in addition to the "high-level" dealer. Those include Scott and Leslie Siddons, who were arrested on Feb. 8, as well as a woman who lived with the drug dealer and another woman with whom police believe he shared a romantic relationship.

College Station police said Monday that the drug dealer was a suspect, but is not currently wanted by police. For legal reasons, KBTX has opted not to disclose the names of any parties listed only as a suspect, including the suspected dealer at the center of the investigation, before they are officially identified as wanted persons by police or arrested and charged.

Mark Hopkins, who was killed by police after they say he fired a shotgun in their direction during the service of the search warrant on Spring Loop, is not named in the warrants as a co-conspirator or in the commission of any crime.

Hopkins is identified in the documents as having the utilities for the Spring Loop address in his name and is briefly mentioned in a warrant as exchanging money on Venmo with the drug dealer and his girlfriend, who is assumed in the documents to be Hopkins's roommate.

KBTX has reached out to College Station police for clarification on that mention, as we believe his identification here (as "Said Suspected Party #2) could have been made in error based on the timeline offered. They confirmed that Hopkins was not the focus of the execution of the search warrant, but did not elaborate further.
https://www.kbtx.com/2023/02/13/warrants-show-early-morning-searches-college-station-focused-high-level-drug-dealer/
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
CS78
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Not looking good. Seems if Hopkins had anything to do with drugs, theyd be spilling it. "Exchanging money on venmo". Isn't that what roommates do?
 
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