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If the store really wanted the carts returned they would offer an incentive to return it.

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They do. It's called "lower prices". People are expensive. If you have to use them to constantly round up shopping carts then you are going to pay for it in the form of higher prices.

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However, after a shopping trip with kids that have already maxed out their patience levels, putting the groceries up while the kids are sitting in a running car to cool off the 150 degree interior, Im simply not walking more than 15 feet to drop the cart off in the corral. Not gonna happen. Ill prop it up on a curb or push it into an open spot or something and hop in the truck and bail. At that point, the last thing I give a flying ---- about is whether or not some snotty soccer mom is inconvenienced by the fact she can't get her SUV in a prime spot.

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Which leaves me wondering whose patience has actually run out here.

[This message has been edited by zbeagle (edited 6/29/2010 3:08p).]

I am the laziest person I know - trust me I could tell you some stories, but I always put my cart back in the corral. I actually don't know why I do it I just do. I am not worried about higher prices, I could care less about denting your car with a runaway cart, and I don't care about your parking space.....but I just put the cart back in the corral because that is it's proper place.

So very few people understand that everything has a place, and that stuff needs to be put where it goes.......

Beyond that it seems that many people have expressed "child safety" as a reason for not putting their cart away. Don't complain about your kids losing their shoes, their homework, or not cleaning there rooms - you are teaching them that it is okay to just drop stuff anywhere.....

Furthermore - why are you bringing your kids to the store anyway - one of my many pet peeves is people who take forever in the grocery store (they have the same food all the time, you have been eating every day for your entire life, and you go to the grocery store at least once a week) so there shouldn't be any surprises - don't stand there in the aisles like a russian immigrant amazed at all the choices, keep moving, pick up your items ON THE MOVE, don't sit there and let Junior choose between the Juicy Pops and the Fruity Pops, just pick up your junk and GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO

Yes I am in a hurry, yes you are clogging the aisle, NO the 14 foot choo choo train cart should have never been invented. And never call 4 of your stay at home mom girlfriends and go to the grocery store with 43 rugrats in tow all clogging up the aisles.

Solve those problems first.

Then don't complain when your kid loses stuff because you never taught them that everything has a place.

we just moved back here two years ago this summer and this issue has been one of my biggest disappointments about going shopping here in b/cs. either the locals or the students here can't seem to move their baskets much past their parking places.

may the shaming of the shopping cart lazies spread from mybcs/texags to the greater community?

Simple answer here. Follow the Golden Rule. If you're OK with having to bypass decent parking spaces because someone left a cart out. If you're fine with your car getting dented up because someone left their cart out then fine. My guess is you're not. So put your cart up. By not doing so you're forcing an inconvenience and possible financial loss to someone else.

Do unto others as you would have done to you.

I put the cart up because I'm thinking about the next guy. I don't want them to miss a decent space, or get their car dented.

Also, another simple rule. Leave things the way you found them. When you eat you don't just leave your dishes sitting there, or your bag and empty cans laying around. You clean them up or put them in the trash. Same principle. There was not a cart next to your car when you got there, so there shouldn't be one when you leave.

If everyone just had a little more consideration for others so many problems could be avoided.

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Do unto others as you would have done to you.

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Unfortunately I think this has mutated in to:

"Do unto others before they can do unto you."

99% of the problem with our society anymore if you ask me

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Are you suggesting that shopping carts are more important than the safety of your children? If so, I disagree with your priorities.

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Are you really incapable of comprehending a sentence that has more than one period in it? If so, I apologize in advance.

I can't get past page 1. Doesn't look like I need to. techno-ag seems to link child endangerment to putting a cart away. Tough to argue when someone is that off.

Ah, he's not the only one.

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Are you suggesting that shopping carts are more important than the safety of your children? If so, I disagree with your priorities.

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Cart maintenance and child health are not linked or dependent on one another. That's your flaw.

I agree with Blue Team. It's okay to leave things out at the grocery store means it's okay to leave them out at home/school/friend's house/fast food joint/library......

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1) the car is not 130 degrees when you arrive

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By this logic, neither you nor the kids can leave the grocery store. If you can get into a hot car and leave, so can they.

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2) you can park right next to a corral (sometimes) or an empty cart (almost always)

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If you're parked next to a corral it shouldn't be any problem to put a cart there after unloading your groceries. You seem to be arguing the opposite case here.

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3) you can get the kids right out and walk them to a cart. on the way back, you have to walk them back AND then they have to stand around in a parking lot or sit in a 130 degree car while you have BOTH hands engaged putting groceries up.

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This is a false dichotomy (aka the logical fallacy of "false dilemma" ). There are other options, including enlisting the aid of the bagger in getting your groceries to and into your vehicle. All you have to do is ask.

More formally, though, your argument is "false analogy" i.e. going into a store is not the same as leaving one. That can be true in 2 regards: 1) the car can be hot (it never seems to be winter with the "it's for the kids" crowd), and 2) you have groceries with you.

In the first case, if a hot car doesn't prevent you from leaving, it won't be a problem for the kids. Opening the doors and letting the car air out for a few moments will lower the temperature to tolerable levels. It's the same thing you do before you get in. The danger with cars and children isn't getting them in, it's leaving them in without adequate ventilation.

In the second case, dealing with groceries, help is readily available. All you have to do is open the trunk or hatch. But, even if it isn't, you can still deal with it. It may mean that you have to deal with the children before you deal with the groceries, but you can still do it safely and without the spontaneous combustion of your first-born. Leave the doors open if you have to until you are ready to go. (And don't give me that "Achmed the terrorist will steal my kids if I leave the door open" argument. Even the farthest corral isn't far enough away to keep you from raising the alarm to prevent that. If you think it is, park closer to it.)

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try this with a 5,3, and 1 year old and tell me how safe you feel.

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If you add a 7 yr old to the mix, yes, I've done that. It can be challenging, but you can still manage this safely. Let the bagger deal with the groceries. You deal with the kids. And if you do that, he'll even take the cart with him.

[This message has been edited by zbeagle (edited 6/29/2010 5:58p).]

I just found out my wife is one the ones that leaves the cart and uses the kids a an excuse. I've already informed her of the shame she's brought upon this house.

OK, ZBeagle let's take a look at your logic.

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your argument is "false analogy" i.e. going into a store is not the same as leaving one. That can be true in 2 regards: 1) the car can be hot (it never seems to be winter with the "it's for the kids" crowd), and 2) you have groceries with you.

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Nah. When the car's in the garage at home, it doesn't get near as hot as it does out in the grocery store parking lot.

As for groceries: yes, uh, that is a big difference between when you leave the house and when you leave the grocery store. It's a big distraction, and a ripe opportunity for mishap.

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The danger with cars and children isn't getting them in, it's leaving them in without adequate ventilation.

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You better tell that to some of the other posters who seem to advocate just such a scenario ... leaving the car with the kids inside to go return a cart. Bad, bad idea IMO.

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I can't get past page 1. Doesn't look like I need to. techno-ag seems to link child endangerment to putting a cart away.

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Hi Nom! Welcome to our little argument. So far most folks have been fairly polite, with a few notable exceptions. Yeah, the gist of my side is that if you have kids with you, don't worry about the cart. Who woulda thunk anybody could disagree with that? It seems pretty reasonable.

Everybody: please don't endanger your kids out of some inflated sense of civic duty to put your carts up. Just leave 'em there. We can replace the carts but we can't replace your kids.



[This message has been edited by techno-ag (edited 6/29/2010 7:03p).]

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I just found out my wife is one the ones that leaves the cart and uses the kids a an excuse. I've already informed her of the shame she's brought upon this house.

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She sounds like a wise woman, SKF.

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but you can still manage this safely

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most of the time. like i already said. but on the one-offs, i'm not going to feel bad. if you really think you can prescribe a perfect life scenario where nothing ever goes wrong or ends up not working out, let me introduce you to two good friends of mine - Reality and Murphy. they would love to get to know you.

for example - i caught a shopping cart once that was rolling across a parking lot that was sloped. with a kid IN it. the mom had turned, put a bag in, arranged them, turned back, and there is Junior heading through traffic into vehicles.

and like another poster said, kids have been known to escape from their seats and kick the car into gear. kids have been abducted from vehicles while mom was putting the cart up. you're still under the delusion that bad things never happen to you because, well, you're you. sorry bud - they can and do. i will do everything possible do decrease that chance.


[This message has been edited by Laurentum05 (edited 6/29/2010 6:09p).]

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Laur, I don't get why you are so AGGRESSIVE in defending this if it is such a one off thing?? I will admit that *GASP* once in a blue moon I might do something similar. Say if it is pouring rain and the corral is 2 isles over and 20 cars up from me. In that case though I would put it in the grass or up on a curb and out of someone elses way.

The situations you posit have odds on the order of 100,000 to 1 VS you getting in a car wreck on the way to the grocery store yet you still take the kids?!?! So please, because safety is the NUMBER ONE priority of those of you who leave the cart in the isle, STAY HOME.. it is safer for you and your kids and everyone else is happier too. It's a win/win for all involved.

Beagles logic is sound. It IS possible to return your cart SAFELY AND keep the kids safe. You can load them in the car and unload the grocery's then return the basket. Load the groceries then load them and return the basket or load the groceries, return the cart THEN take the kids out and load them up. What is it about you leaving the store that necessitates you being a selfish TWIT and causing inconvienience for others?!?! What changed about what you were doing in ANY of the scenarios including leaving the cart in the parking lot? Nothing changed, in ALL of them you were leaving. Crying about the heat of the car is an EXCUSE. One way or another if it was THAT big an issue you would wait and let it cool no matter where you were going to leave the cart. Claiming leaving the cart some how facilitates a "cooler" retreat for your kids and is thus safer is just ludicrous.

Once again, the logic is FLAWED. What you are doing is not soundly reasoned out, it is a flawed rationalization for what you are doing that allows you to feel good enough about it to continue even though you KNOW it is wrong.

[This message has been edited by Allonym (edited 6/29/2010 8:38p).]

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locking three children in a 130 degree car is also an amazingly brilliant idea. good call.

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Either you're the slowest walker ever, or your kids are only going to be in the car for 30 seconds to 2 minutes max. Somehow I think they'll survive. It sounds like you're just using them as an excuse for your own laziness.

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If you've ever spent a day as a cart wrangler, you will always put your cart in the proper place.

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Amen. This is why it's one of my biggest pet peeves.

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We can replace the carts but we can't replace your kids.

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I can... I made two already. I can make more. And Lauren doesn't seem to have any trouble making them.

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Either you're the slowest walker ever, or your kids are only going to be in the car for 30 seconds to 2 minutes max. Somehow I think they'll survive. It sounds like you're just using them as an excuse for your own laziness.

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Nah. All y'all are just wrong on this issue. Sorry, you just are. I can't fathom that y'all openly advocate leaving the kids while returning the cart.

Sigh. Take a look at this:

http://pediatrics.about.com/od/safety/a/05_hot_cars.htm

Here's the relevant quotes:

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In addition to the risk of being abducted if they are left alone in a car, on a typical summer day, the temperature inside a car (even with the windows rolled down a little) can quickly rise above 120 to 140 degrees. Even on a relatively mild day, the temperature inside a car can get above 100 degrees. At those temperatures, kids are at great risk for heat stroke, which can lead to a high fever, dehydration, seizures, stroke and death.

...

Remember, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, 'a locked car sitting in the summer sun quickly turns into an oven,' and 'temperatures can climb from 78 degrees to 100 degrees in just three minutes, to 125 degrees in 6-8 minutes.'

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I repeat: if you have small kids with you, just leave the cart. It's not worth it trying to juggle too many things at once. If someone has to get out of their car and move the cart you left, it's probably doing them some good to get out and exercise, and your children are safer for it.

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Also, can the drama. If you need help getting the stuff to car and getting the cart put up properly, ask for help out to the car. Period.

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Don't you love when you make a valid argument that ends the discussion and proves you are right, yet others won't acknowledge this? Of course, now people will probably come on here saying that you shouldn't get help out to the car because the person helping you out might be a pervert waiting to knock you unconscious with the baguette you just bought so he can kidnap your children.


However, I will give you the blue star of victory. This argument ends it. There is no reason to leave your cart out other than sheer laziness.

Wow...if you are going to quote a source you should make sure the next sentances dont OBLITERATE your argument COMPLETELY.

Quote from YOUR source:

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•a 9 month old died after being 'left strapped in child safety seat in a sweltering minivan for two hours - misunderstanding between child's parents resulted in the child being left alone in the van; one parent believed infant was at home with other'
•a 6 month old 'baby died when accidentally left in hot car for 3 hrs, died when outside 90-degree temperatures rose to 130 degrees inside closed car, parents thought the other had carried the baby from the car to crib'
•a 34 month old 'toddler who recently learned how to open a car door apparently climbed inside family station wagon while parent and sibling were in house'
•a 23 month old died when a 'relative babysitting child, put child in car for trip to store, went back in house having forgotten something, was distracted by something on television, sat on couch to watch, fell asleep, woke up two hours later'
•a 2 year old died after a 'parent left child in car after returning home from errand - was left for more than an hour'
•a 2 year old 'child apparently slipped away from parents and siblings, fell asleep atop blanket in unlocked car in driveway of home, oldest sibling found child 40 minutes later'

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In those scenarios please NOTE the time frames involved.

Unless you weigh 600 lbs or more I am more than certain the reasonable request placed on you by society to be considerate of others and walk your cart to the corral and get back to your car is a minute fraction compared to the above.

If you do weigh 600 lbs or more you NEED the excercise.

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* a 9 month old died after being 'left strapped in child safety seat in a sweltering minivan for two hours - misunderstanding between child's parents resulted in the child being left alone in the van; one parent believed infant was at home with other'
* a 6 month old 'baby died when accidentally left in hot car for 3 hrs, died when outside 90-degree temperatures rose to 130 degrees inside closed car, parents thought the other had carried the baby from the car to crib'
* a 34 month old 'toddler who recently learned how to open a car door apparently climbed inside family station wagon while parent and sibling were in house'
* a 23 month old died when a 'relative babysitting child, put child in car for trip to store, went back in house having forgotten something, was distracted by something on television, sat on couch to watch, fell asleep, woke up two hours later'
* a 2 year old died after a 'parent left child in car after returning home from errand - was left for more than an hour'
* a 2 year old 'child apparently slipped away from parents and siblings, fell asleep atop blanket in unlocked car in driveway of home, oldest sibling found child 40 minutes later'

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In every one of the cases, the child was left for at least 40 minutes. Like I said, unless you have one leg, it's not going to take you more than a couple minutes to roll the cart into the nearest corral. And a couple of minutes in a hot car won't do anyone any harm as long as the doors are locked.

It only took 3 minutes for 2 people to see the glaring hole in your logic.

[This message has been edited by Allonym (edited 6/29/2010 10:22p).]

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This argument ends it. There is no reason to leave your cart out other than sheer laziness.

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Oh, Jenna! I laughed so hard when I read that. Say, on a side note how does it feel to have started a thread that has gone on for five pages so far? That is phenomenal, especially for something as trite and insignificant as stray shopping carts. It's been a fun argument, although we always have to walk that fine line and avoid personal attacks with those we disagree with.

But I must disagree with your statements... There is a very strong reason to leave your cart out other than sheer laziness: If you have small kids in the car, forget about the shopping cart! Those little ones are much more important than returning a silly old shopping cart to a cart corral. Really.

PS:

Hey thanks to all of you who have strived to keep this thread positive in tone and who've avoided negative comments and harsh attacks. Y'all are the bomb and you make MyBCS a great place online!

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In those scenarios please NOTE the time frames involved.

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LOL! Al & JW, no fair using quotes from my source against me!

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It only took 3 minutes for 2 people to see the glaring whole in your logic.

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I think you meant "hole."

Seriously, the quotes y'all use involve folks who've forgotten their kids in the car. That is a different situation altogether. My quotes were supporting arguments revolving around the fact that the temp in the car can increase significantly in just 2-3 minutes, which some posters previously indicated was an acceptable amount of time while returning the cart.

[This message has been edited by techno-ag (edited 6/29/2010 10:18p).]

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If you've ever spent a day as a cart wrangler, you will always put your cart in the proper place

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Amen, even if when I did that, minimum wage was only $2.25/hr.

I remember when Sam's would give you a coupon for a dollar off for bringing a cart in from the parking lot.

Not sure, but I think Sam's does not have people specifically tasked to cart wrangling, so if they get called to do something else in the store, the carts stay where they are left.

________________________________________________________
Standing guard, even sitting behind a desk

Occupational hazard of my occupation just not being around

Lower prices if I put my cart back-WOW! I'd even sack my own if it lowered pricesss, hey thats self check out. Those lower prices for checking, sacking, and now returning the cart will become noticeable when? Businesses cut costs to become more profitable.

Back in the day, cost cutter stores offered no frills brands,warehouse like shelving, and no sacking with bring your own sacks or purchase sacks. Then dream over, there was no real savings for the customer and this concept disappeared.

Oh for cryin' out loud I can't believe this arguing has gone on for over 125 replies! I hate to break it to you self-righteous folks that are so holier than thou, but not all of us that walk the planet are as perfect as you present yourselves.

Sometimes I put my basket up and other times I don't. Yes, sometimes its because I am lazy or its too hot or my feet are killing me. Other times, not only do I put my cart up, but I also take another or two that have been left behind. I sometimes even take a moment to straighten out the corral so that more carts can fit. I have moved carts from behind vehicles or OFF vehicles that others have left, just as a nicety toward others. I almost always grab a cart from the lot and take it inside with me and occasionally, I am happy to find one near my car if I happen to be exchanging something, say at Target or Lowes, that is too heavy for me to carry. What can I say... Sometimes I live by "the rules of society" and sometimes I don't. Big whoop.

Dont know about yall, but when I take my kids to eat at Whataburger I just leave all the trash on the table when we are finished eating. Afterall, I have my kids with me so cleaning up after us is someone else's responsibility, not mine!

I've solved the problem by not using a cart at all. I just load my kids' arms up with stuff. When they can't carry any more, I grab a stray kid running amok in the aisles.... That way it helps everyone.

Yeah and I yanked up some tantrum-throwing kid, spanked her, put her in the cart corral and told the parents they could thank me later and pick her up when they returned their shopping cart to the appropriate location.

techno, did you even read the reply I quoted? What is your excuse for not getting help out to your car? If you get help from the bagger, they will put up your cart. Since there is no reason to not ask for help, there is no excuse for not putting up your cart. So yes, that posters argument does end it because you (and everyone else arguing against putting up your cart) has no argument against getting help.

Jenna,

I would quit while ahead. Some of these folks are obviously trolling and trying to entertain themselsves for the day getting people on a rant.

Nobody is "hollier than thou" however advocating leaving the cart out is what is being argued against. Everyone has a day where they *might* do it but we also KNOW that it is wrong and arent proud enough to go on a MB and say YEAH I DID IT YOU SHOULD TOO!

The points have been made, either you are a troll, too stupid to get it or you just don't care about societies etiquette rules so you come up with flimsy excuses to make yourself feel better about what you did but that everyone else can see through.


[This message has been edited by Allonym (edited 6/30/2010 9:29a).]