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Legal ramifications against Camp Mystic

84,151 Views | 736 Replies | Last: 5 hrs ago by MAS444
dermdoc
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rlb28 said:

The Testimony That Pushed Camp Mystic's Leaders to Announce It Will Not Reopen in 2026


https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1410536347777830&set=a.610292067802266&type=3

Thanks.
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DannyDuberstein
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SMH at some of the comments. Some worshippers calling it things like a witch hunt, etc. What people will cling to is always mind-boggling. Sure seems like Dick was a force of nature that had so many cowed, even in death.
dermdoc
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So proud. I beg of you please watch this
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BrazosDog02
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DannyDuberstein said:

SMH at some of the comments. Some worshippers calling it things like a witch hunt, etc. What people will cling to is always mind-boggling. Sure seems like Dick was a force of nature that had so many cowed, even in death.

It is indeed quite a marvel to behold. But you have to remember, many of these campers come from deep pocketed, connected, and influential families or at the minimum, upper middle class families. These aren't kids of Cletus down at the loading dock. The Eastlands served as vessels to allow these young girls to move up in society and start fostering a solid social network. It has already been noted in this thread that this was not just about 'having a good time at camp'. It might have been for the girls, but for the parents, it's the leg up for the kids in society. It maintained their family name. Their children's status depended on it. We can squeal all we want over how terrible it is that Camp Mystic wanted to open this year, but for whatever reason, we seem to overlook the fact that there were almost 850 applications who DGAF and enrolled for camp pressuring them to do so.
dermdoc
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BrazosDog02 said:

DannyDuberstein said:

SMH at some of the comments. Some worshippers calling it things like a witch hunt, etc. What people will cling to is always mind-boggling. Sure seems like Dick was a force of nature that had so many cowed, even in death.

It is indeed quite a marvel to behold. But you have to remember, many of these campers come from deep pocketed, connected, and influential families or at the minimum, upper middle class families. These aren't kids of Cletus down at the loading dock. The Eastlands served as vessels to allow these young girls to move up in society and start fostering a solid social network. It has already been noted in this thread that this was not just about 'having a good time at camp'. It might have been for the girls, but for the parents, it's the leg up for the kids in society. It maintained their family name. Their children's status depended on it. We can squeal all we want over how terrible it is that Camp Mystic wanted to open this year, but for whatever reason, we seem to overlook the fact that there were almost 850 applications who DGAF and enrolled for camp pressuring them to do so.

There is no excuse except it didn't happen to them. And they don't think it will.
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BrazosDog02
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Agreed.
dermdoc
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If anybody watches the Dr. Phil videos and claim the parents are money grabbers need their butts kicked. And there have been posters on here and said that. Disgraceful. Of course, they will never take the time to watch the videos.
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dermdoc
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No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
BrazosDog02
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We keep hearing about the same lawsuits and the same families....anyone know the status of the ones that haven't filed lawsuits?
Marvin_Zindler
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BrazosDog02 said:

We keep hearing about the same lawsuits and the same families....anyone know the status of the ones that haven't filed lawsuits?

To my knowledge there are only 2 families in H27 that have not yet filed suit in some form (either suing Eastland, Inc. directly or suing the State (DSHS)). One of those families is local to Ingram and, from all available evidence, close to the Eastlands. So, it is unlikely they will sue.
Gator92
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Any chance the lawsuits are put into a class and moved to Federal Court?
Marvin_Zindler
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Gator92 said:

Any chance the lawsuits are put into a class and moved to Federal Court?

Not at all. No diversity of citizenship that would be a threshold jurisdictional requirement to get to federal court, amongst other barriers to that happening.
sellthefarm
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highpriorityag said:

Well they are closed this summer so 800 parents will have to find another camp built in a flood zone to ship their kids too

If I am sending my kid somewhere for 2 weeks, I would assume the risk to their life is close to zero. I don't think having a camp built in a flood zone is anywhere close to zero. I never thought to send my kids there just because we didn't really do summer camps but if I had and something happened I would want accountability.
Would I have researched that river and where the cabins were before I sent my kids there? I don't know, but I would assume the owners did!











This is the typical comment that is driving me crazy. Well gollie gee bob howdy, why'd they put the cabins in the river? I wish people would quit commenting on things they have no idea about.

The serious conversation here is about the operation and response.
sellthefarm
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dermdoc said:

Seems reasonable to me that Dick should be in the office delegating jobs like measuring the rising water. And obviously there should have been walkie talkie communication between Dic and all the workers.


And what about the PA? Did they have a camp wide PA?
Gator92
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Marvin_Zindler said:

Gator92 said:

Any chance the lawsuits are put into a class and moved to Federal Court?

Not at all. No diversity of citizenship that would be a threshold jurisdictional requirement to get to federal court, amongst other barriers to that happening.

Since the plaintiffs are all from the same state?
Marvin_Zindler
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Gator92 said:

Marvin_Zindler said:

Gator92 said:

Any chance the lawsuits are put into a class and moved to Federal Court?

Not at all. No diversity of citizenship that would be a threshold jurisdictional requirement to get to federal court, amongst other barriers to that happening.

Since the plaintiffs are all from the same state?

Correct.
Alta
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That is not correct as one of the potential plaintiffs is from Alabama.
txags92
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sellthefarm said:

dermdoc said:

Seems reasonable to me that Dick should be in the office delegating jobs like measuring the rising water. And obviously there should have been walkie talkie communication between Dic and all the workers.


And what about the PA? Did they have a camp wide PA?

There were several loud speakers that were reportedly functional, but there is some question whether it would have been audible over the sound of all the thunder and the heavy rate of rainfall. Still should have at least tried to use it.
Bandit99
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After watching every minute of the hearing videos, I wanted to make sure folks know that Camp Mystic still has an active license to operate. DSHHS is the last group to appear before the committee, and that information came out under questioning. The committees will almost certainly make sure that license is revoked shortly, but I can not fathom how a state agency can allow that to still be an issue at this point!
Marvin_Zindler
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Alta said:

That is not correct as one of the potential plaintiffs is from Alabama.

Aside from the Marsh family, all plaintiffs and defendants in the current lawsuits are domiciled in Texas. If the Marsh family wanted to sue Eastland Inc. on their own, as sole plaintiffs in the suit, they could bring that in federal court. But they have not done that.

Aside from the Marsh single-plaintiff scenario, there is no diversity, as all parties....both plaintiff and deferent, are domiciled in Texas.
Alta
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How's that wrong? One potential plaintiffs (who may or may not sue) is not from Texas. The question was is there any way this could become a class action lawsuit and removed to federal court. It's possible on diversity grounds as a potential plaintiffs (who could end up suing and be a member of the class) and all one needs is minimal diversity.

It's obviously much more complicated than this with various exceptions, etc. to challenge removal but one cannot simply say it's not at all possible.
Marvin_Zindler
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Alta said:

How's that wrong? One potential plaintiffs (who may or may not sue) is not from Texas. The question was is there any way this could become a class action lawsuit and removed to federal court. It's possible on diversity grounds as a potential plaintiffs (who could end up suing and be a member of the class) and all one needs is minimal diversity.

It's obviously much more complicated than this with various exceptions, etc. to challenge removal but one cannot simply say it's not at all possible.

My response was in terms of the current lawsuits filed in Travis County District Court and consolidated before Judge Gamble. As currently filed, they could not be removed to federal court. Apologies...we may be talking past each other.
MAS444
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Just need one plaintiff and one defendant from Texas to defeat diversity and stay in Texas state court. And this is nowhere near a "class" for many other reasons. Further, Plaintiffs are typically the ones who want to certify a class for class action, not Defendants. But again, this is light years away from a "class action."

Cases like this with multiple similarly situated Plaintiffs are commonly consolidated together in state court though for consistency/efficiency of discovery, rulings, etc.
LB12MEEN
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I think it's best the camp does not open this year. I'm not sure it's really going to help those that lost loved ones that much, time and support will help with healing the most. And in the end the camp not being open a year or two will not hurt the ones pushing for it to be open. They will move on and taking a break will make it better once it starts back up.
Gig ‘Em Baby!
sawemoff07
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https://kerrcountylead.com/the-monster-in-the-canyon-what-the-storm-actually-was-and-what-was-never-asked/

This is a good article for perspective.

I feel sorrowful for the lives lost in the flood. I feel sorrowful for the kids who won't get to experience the camp this summer.

I'll say the grief in this thread is palpable. I don't know that convictions or closing of camps will change any of that. All involved are in my prayers at the moment.
dermdoc
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This has been a tough two weeks for both sides. Prayers continue for families and the Eastlands. Tough deal.
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roo333
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dermdoc said:

If anybody watches the Dr. Phil videos and claim the parents are money grabbers need their butts kicked. And there have been posters on here and said that. Disgraceful. Of course, they will never take the time to watch the videos.


Thank you for sharing the links. I also just read the Steward's response statement about Camp Mystic withdrawing their application to operate for the summer.

These parents' ability to be so eloquent amidst all that anger and grief at the situation is amazing. I am in awe of them and all of the families.
dermdoc
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Letter from Cile Steward's parents in response to Mystic withdrawing their request to re open this summer.

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maverick2076
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I highly doubt they are personally writing these letters. They are drafted by a lawyer or public affairs cunsultant.
dermdoc
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maverick2076 said:

I highly doubt they are personally writing these letters. They are drafted by a lawyer or public affairs cunsultant.

Disagree. My nephew who lost a daughter knows the Stewards. Cile's mom wrote that.
i think the Eastlands and the Mystic supporters are finally coming to the realization how big of a deal 27 deaths under their watch was.
And that you can't just go on like nothing really happened. Because that is exactly how their actions have been perceived by the families.
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Senator Blutarski
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Houston Chronicle OPED

BrazosDog02
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There's no way the camp can open half and not need to remodel the damaged infrastructure which is against the order and that's where I have a beef. I don't care that they want to open. Life goes on, they have business, bills don't stop coming, go for it. But, if you have to violate an order and destroy evidence in the middle of an investigation to do it when you have legal minds working at the camp….i can't just overlook that. I can't just do whatever the **** I want with my business and I fully expect them to follow laws as well. They don't just have some rag tag legal team either so I'm curious about the mindset on that. Were they told by the legal team "hey, if you just remodel this way we can make a case for not damaging evidence?" Or what? Is there a timeline of when then remodeling happened vs when the court order was officially put in place?
dermdoc
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Senator Blutarski said:

Houston Chronicle OPED




I am blocked by a paywall. I read the first part and was not impressed. Unless they interviewed and got the opinion of at least one parent who lost a child then their opinion means nothing to me.

The author is entitled to her opinion but she doesn't get it. Myatic is not more important than 27 lives and she doesn't get that.
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Senator Blutarski
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It's two separate camps, with separate entrances, separate facilities, separate activity areas.

ETA a quote from the oped: " And better than most families, we understand the alacrity and horrific power of the July 4 flood. One of my sisters and my niece also lost their lives that night not at Camp Mystic, but at the vacation home my parents built in 1976, three miles downriver from Camp Mystic's site on the Guadalupe."

" But not in July 2025. In a matter of minutes the floodwaters forced open the bolted front door. Rushing water crested over the house with such force that it was swept off its foundation, taking my niece and my sister with it."
dermdoc
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Senator Blutarski said:

It's two separate camps, with separate entrances, separate facilities, separate activity areas.

ETA a quote from the oped: " And better than most families, we understand the alacrity and horrific power of the July 4 flood. One of my sisters and my niece also lost their lives that night not at Camp Mystic, but at the vacation home my parents built in 1976, three miles downriver from Camp Mystic's site on the Guadalupe."

" But not in July 2025. In a matter of minutes the floodwaters forced open the bolted front door. Rushing water crested over the house with such force that it was swept off its foundation, taking my niece and my sister with it."


The Eastlands have to go. Period.

When the majority of the Heaven 27 parents are okay with re opening then I am okay with it. They are the important ones here. Not the Eastlands. Not past or future campers. The author just does not get it.
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