Apache said:

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Apache said:
As the federally protected Caracara expand throughout the state, you sheep loving Bo Peeps will need to sell your flocks. Mexican Eagles are ravenous winged demons & eat everything under 100 pounds. Coyotes will be the least of your problems.

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You don't know sheep and goat ranchers too well do you.....

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My post was meant to be humorous relating back to a thread about caracaras earlier in the week.
Don't know sheep/goat ranchers, but I know they shoot/trap/poison the hell out of everything that looks at their flock sideways.

I'd be curious to know the effectiveness of using Great Pyrenees or other companion animals for protection vs. trapping/shooting. (I'm assuming you may be a sheep/goat rancher)

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Not a sheep and goat rancher but have friends that are. Caracaras were one of the subjects discussed at the morning Kafe Klatch this AM. Sounds like one is now able to get a permit to eliminate such threats.

What is it attacking here?

jpb1999 said:

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What is it attacking here?

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His manhood, apparently.

Rattler12 said:

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Apache said:

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Apache said:
As the federally protected Caracara expand throughout the state, you sheep loving Bo Peeps will need to sell your flocks. Mexican Eagles are ravenous winged demons & eat everything under 100 pounds. Coyotes will be the least of your problems.

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You don't know sheep and goat ranchers too well do you.....

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My post was meant to be humorous relating back to a thread about caracaras earlier in the week.
Don't know sheep/goat ranchers, but I know they shoot/trap/poison the hell out of everything that looks at their flock sideways.

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Not a sheep and goat rancher but have friends that are. Caracaras were one of the subjects discussed at the morning Kafe Klatch this AM. Sounds like one is now able to get a permit to eliminate such threats.

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On a lease near Menard, a cattle raiser, with one pasture of goats, thoroughly chastised my Dad, for passing on a fox...which was the ONLY reported predator to be seen in years, on that place (4000 acres). Quite sure bald eagles were not safe, if passing over his property.
And the over-abundance of jackrabbits, eating his precious grazing grasses? umm, change the subject...

Dogs will generally keep the four legged threats away. Maybe not as effective against birds.

BrazosDog02 said:

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LOL. Walked right up to one, eh?

Man, its like story night with grandpa. :/

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Not that hard if they're in a snare

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And the over-abundance of jackrabbits, eating his precious grazing grasses? umm, change the subject...

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Mice and rabbits do the damage on my property. Apex predators are always welcome on my place.

Do you routinely misconstrue other's comments, or is this an exception?

We run cattle, have zero "love" for coyotes, but nor is a complete elimination of predators ever on our radar. The referenced Menard ranch had undergone the "gov't trapper" route...eradication of ALL predators.
Yet the rancher was oblivious to the unintended consequences of a rabbit and coon population explosion.

GSS said:

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Do you routinely misconstrue other's comments, or is this an exception?

We run cattle, have zero "love" for coyotes, but nor is a complete elimination of predators ever on our radar. The referenced Menard ranch had undergone the "gov't trapper" route...eradication of ALL predators.
Yet the rancher was oblivious to the unintended consequences of a rabbit and coon population explosion.

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I must have hit a nerve ....wasn't the intention. But the question still remains. Which would coyotes/ foxes go after first? Lambs and kids or jackrabbits? Are you saying predation on cattle is the same as sheep and goats?

I completely get the need of the sheep/goat farmer to protect their livestock. Would running Great Pyrenees or something similar be as good as lethal control & have the extra benefit of not disrupting the greater ecosystem?

Rattler12 said:

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GSS said:

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Do you routinely misconstrue other's comments, or is this an exception?

We run cattle, have zero "love" for coyotes, but nor is a complete elimination of predators ever on our radar. The referenced Menard ranch had undergone the "gov't trapper" route...eradication of ALL predators.
Yet the rancher was oblivious to the unintended consequences of a rabbit and coon population explosion.

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I must have hit a nerve ....wasn't the intention. But the question still remains. Which would coyotes/ foxes go after first? Lambs and kids or jackrabbits? Are you saying predation on cattle is the same as sheep and goats?

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This....."Why the love of life for the yote/fox and the indifference towards the deer? Double standard?"

...tells me the only right answer or perspective, will be the one you espouse.

CanyonAg77 said:

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"Why the love of life for the yote/fox and the indifference towards the deer? Double standard?"

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Human life is precious.

All other life is to be respected, especially for its place in the ecosystem.

This is why taking prey animal (deer) is not a big deal, in moderation, but taking a predator is. Prey animals breed like bunnies.

If human life or health is in danger, humans are always the priority.

If human's livelihood is endangered, intelligently controlling the animal pest is the priority. This is why I think it's a bad idea to simply take out predators.

Obviously, many disagree.

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Well yeah.

If they follow your logic they can't post photos of all the massive incredibly hazardous animals they killed.

GSS said:

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Rattler12 said:

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GSS said:

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Do you routinely misconstrue other's comments, or is this an exception?

We run cattle, have zero "love" for coyotes, but nor is a complete elimination of predators ever on our radar. The referenced Menard ranch had undergone the "gov't trapper" route...eradication of ALL predators.
Yet the rancher was oblivious to the unintended consequences of a rabbit and coon population explosion.

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I must have hit a nerve ....wasn't the intention. But the question still remains. Which would coyotes/ foxes go after first? Lambs and kids or jackrabbits? Are you saying predation on cattle is the same as sheep and goats?

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This....."Why the love of life for the yote/fox and the indifference towards the deer? Double standard?"

...tells me the only right answer or perspective, will be the one you espouse.

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Why evade the question? Which will they go after first?

Just curious, because I've worked cattle for over 50+years.
What does the tail of a calf have to do with flanking it? I never touched the tail doing this.

GSS said:

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Doc Hayworth said:

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Just curious, because I've worked cattle for over 50+years.
What does the tail of a calf have to do with flanking it? I never touched the tail doing this.

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Your buddy grabs the tail, allowing you to flank the calf...
Cuz most of us can't rope worth a damn

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guess we must be the exception Doc.

philevans said:

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coyotes are survivors and useful to nature, will exist just like cockroaches till they are alone.

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We are seeing them around Alamo Heights more and more. I have mixed feelings. I grew up assuming every one of them should be shot. On the other hand, they are keeping the feral cats in check in my neighborhood.

Rattler12 said:

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GSS said:

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Rattler12 said:

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GSS said:

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Do you routinely misconstrue other's comments, or is this an exception?

We run cattle, have zero "love" for coyotes, but nor is a complete elimination of predators ever on our radar. The referenced Menard ranch had undergone the "gov't trapper" route...eradication of ALL predators.
Yet the rancher was oblivious to the unintended consequences of a rabbit and coon population explosion.

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I must have hit a nerve ....wasn't the intention. But the question still remains. Which would coyotes/ foxes go after first? Lambs and kids or jackrabbits? Are you saying predation on cattle is the same as sheep and goats?

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This....."Why the love of life for the yote/fox and the indifference towards the deer? Double standard?"

...tells me the only right answer or perspective, will be the one you espouse.

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Why evade the question? Which will they go after first?

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If I must...with context. This ranch was 4000 acres, one pasture (not even a section) was being used for goats (and that effort was abandoned), the rest cattle, 100% predator eradication. So the one fox spotted had plenty of rabbits, coons, rats, mice, to dine on, no competition, but I suppose that the fox could have only chosen to eat kid goats, and simply gone hungry, when a baby goat was not available.

Or been the opportunists that most predators are, and chowed down on the closest meal.

But you're probably right, that fox definitely would have only dined on kid goats. Death to all foxes, coyotes, bobcats, badgers, hawks, bald eagles, etc...


And if you're having success on downed cows getting up, recovering...consider yourself very lucky.

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You can sure tell who has ranched sheep or goats and who hasn't from this topic.

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Since you have, can you answer my question about the dogs guarding the sheep?
They were bred to defend against wolves & bears, you'd think they could handle coyotes.

Also, do gray foxes really go after newborn sheep/goats? Doesn't seem like something they would do, but idk.

The owner of the cattle we let roam our property got rid of his donkeys since they were starting to bully all of the animals. Shortly after the coyotes started coming after the youngest calves during the day. I shot a few and for the most part they stay away except at night.

GSS said:

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Rattler12 said:

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GSS said:

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Rattler12 said:

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GSS said:

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Do you routinely misconstrue other's comments, or is this an exception?

We run cattle, have zero "love" for coyotes, but nor is a complete elimination of predators ever on our radar. The referenced Menard ranch had undergone the "gov't trapper" route...eradication of ALL predators.
Yet the rancher was oblivious to the unintended consequences of a rabbit and coon population explosion.

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I must have hit a nerve ....wasn't the intention. But the question still remains. Which would coyotes/ foxes go after first? Lambs and kids or jackrabbits? Are you saying predation on cattle is the same as sheep and goats?

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This....."Why the love of life for the yote/fox and the indifference towards the deer? Double standard?"

...tells me the only right answer or perspective, will be the one you espouse.

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Why evade the question? Which will they go after first?

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If I must...with context. This ranch was 4000 acres, one pasture (not even a section) was being used for goats (and that effort was abandoned), the rest cattle, 100% predator eradication. So the one fox spotted had plenty of rabbits, coons, rats, mice, to dine on, no competition, but I suppose that the fox could have only chosen to eat kid goats, and simply gone hungry, when a baby goat was not available.

Or been the opportunists that most predators are, and chowed down on the closest meal.

But you're probably right, that fox definitely would have only dined on kid goats. Death to all foxes, coyotes, bobcats, badgers, hawks, bald eagles, etc...


And if you're having success on downed cows getting up, recovering...consider yourself very lucky.

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You're worse than the governor in the BLWHinT movie at dancin a little sidestep. You answer a question without answering the question and think you answered the question

Apache said:

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You can sure tell who has ranched sheep or goats and who hasn't from this topic.

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Since you have, can you answer my question about the dogs guarding the sheep?
They were bred to defend against wolves & bears, you'd think they could handle coyotes.

Also, do gray foxes really go after newborn sheep/goats? Doesn't seem like something they would do, but idk.

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Until the last 5 or so years our area of the plateau has been coyote free thanks to intensive predator control, our biggest predator problem in the past has been golden eagles that the feds mandate we support. We haven't tried dogs yet, given the price of guard dogs and the small flock size we have the sheep will probably go away and we will just have a cow-calf herd. I have seen a pair of guard dogs stalking a town dog that got itsself in the wrong pasture so I would expect a well trained guard dog should be pretty effective. Donkeys may be good around cows but I have heard some not so good stories about them and goats.

We have coons that will take a fawn, bobcats and foxes will definitely kill a newborn lamb or kid, so will buzzards and crows given the opportunity. No cara cara in our area yet, but black buzzards have shown up in the last 10 years.