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Flying is outdoors

236,669 Views | 1441 Replies | Last: 24 days ago by Stat Monitor Repairman
CanyonAg77
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It's "Doc", and we were in Copper Breaks State Park, so we missed it. These guys will have a lot of good pics

https://m.facebook.com/groups/128291860579641/?ref=share&mibextid=S66gvF
Ducks4brkfast
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What is the most economical plane to own and operate for 5 people? It would be for trips between Houston and the Hill Country.
src94
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Cherokee 6? Cessna 206?
src94
Ducks4brkfast
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src94 said:

Cherokee 6? Cessna 206?
Cirrus SR20 looks like a good option too.
src94
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For 5 people?
Ducks4brkfast
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yessir
src94
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Maybe smaller people who have eaten fewer tacos than I have.
Moy
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Ducks4brkfast said:

src94 said:

Cherokee 6? Cessna 206?
Cirrus SR20 looks like a good option too.



What's the SR20 useful load ? ~1000#?
Ducks4brkfast
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no idea. i dont know anything about airplanes.
AnglerAg92
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Would add a Beechcraft Bonanza to list, but you really need to figure out how much weight in baggage and passengers you are wanting to haul. A fully fueled 6-seater might hold 4 adults with bags. The Texas heat will also reduce takeoff performance so need to factor that also.
CharlieBrown17
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SR22 is probably the cirrus that makes more sense.

ETA who is the target user? Family? Friends? Small business?

Already have a pilot or someone getting their license for this?
Ducks4brkfast
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Just to get the family back and forth from west Houston to the ranch in the hill country. And yes, will get a license.
fire09
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Useful load on an sr22 is about 950lbs with fuel. 5 with bags would almost necessitate 2 being children. Will be tight in the backseat.

Check out the Saratoga or one of the 206 family, similar useful load but lower entry cost.
AgLA06
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DA62
CaptnCarl
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If you're interested in flying, then start taking lessons. If your ultimate goal is do beat a 4-5 hour driving hauling family, the juice may not be worth the squeeze. A new suburban may be a better buy.

Would you put your family in a single engine plane with a newly license pilot? How about if that pilot is pressured to get to the ranch Friday and back by Sunday for school? What if the weather is marginal or worse? You'll end up driving because of Houston weather more than you realize.

You also need to factor in the time to drive to airport, properly preflight, fuel, load baggage, fly, unload baggage, get the airport car ready, then drive to the ranch. Are you really saving time?

That said, Cirrus SR20/22 payload is low and are far from economical.
CanyonAg77
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Agree that the plane would be more fun, but a car will beat it there 9 times out of 10
TxAg20
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I own a "5 seat" SR22 and it's not a 5 adult plane. It's hardly a 2 adult, 3 child plane. The rear, middle seat is a joke.

The 206 is perfect for your mission. The Bonanza or Saratoga would work, but are probably a little more plane than you need performance-wise and your family may prefer the cabin and view from the 206. If you train in a 172, the transition to a 206 should be very easy. It's hard to "get behind" a high-wing Cessna.

A comfy Transit or Sprinter is probably a better use of time and money unless you're making this trip more than twice a month.
CharlieBrown17
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AgLA06 said:

DA62


Yeah this was going to be my suggestion if it was already someone with their IFR and multi punched
Complaint Investigator
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allMondjoy said:

He is at 900hrs with multiple commercial certs. Goal is eventual airlines but trying to get array of experience required. Wish a good Ag could take him under pervebial wing!


Happy to talk to him - I can tell him a few places to avoid. The goal should be to get to 1500 - not sure on the gig he's considering. I'd need to know the company name. If he can get to 1500, Spirit and Frontier might be options. I can help him with a recruiter at Spirit. I can get him into my current employer at 1500 as well flying a bigger jet than a regional, but I don't recommend them and have told friends to stay away. NK and F9 are infinitely better options. I just got the nod from SWA to go talk to them, and as long as I don't bolo the interview should be there soon.

If he's single and doesn't mind cargo that entails lots of time away and hours on the back of the clock, Atlas might work. I know they were taking r-ATP helo guys straight off.

Going to hiring events is also key. There's one next month in Vegas and he can look at who will be there. There's also one in New Orleans sometime this summer. I can't remember the exact date. Have him email me and we can setup a time to talk.
AgLA06
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206. Pickup of the sky.



206 Turbo for $350K
https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/214822449/1981-cessna-turbo-u206g-stationair-piston-single-aircraft
MaroonDontRun
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Ducks4brkfast said:

What is the most economical plane to own and operate for 5 people? It would be for trips between Houston and the Hill Country.
Here are a few options with general pricing to give you some idea for the initial investment. Owning an airplane isn't cheap and the initial purchase price is only the beginning of the joys of ownership. If you talk to anyone in the know, dropping a newly minted private pilot into a high performance, complex airplane is a really bad idea. I would recommend getting at least 200-300 hours before considering jumping into one of these planes.

Right now av gas is running $5/gallon on the low end (KLBX) so a loose guide for one of the these planes that have big 6 cylinder engines is going to burn about 18-20 gallons per hour (possibly a little less) which equates to $100 / hour and that is just fuel. You would also need to build into your hourly cost everything else which includes engine rebuild fund ($60K-$80K), hanger rental ($500/month), insurance ($3,500 annually on the very low end), annuals ($2-$10K depending on the condition of the plane) and repairs (if it goes on something with wings, it is expensive - used wheel assembly on my Mooney was $450 from a salvage yard).

  • Beechcraft G36 / Purchase Price Used - 700K-900K
  • Beechcraft A36 / Purchase Price Used - 250K-500K
  • Beechcraft S35 / Purchase Price Used - 120K-220K
  • Cirrus SR22 / Purchase Price Used - 550K-1M
  • Piper Saratoga TC / Purchase Price Used - 500K
  • Cessna 206H / Purchase Price Used - 400K-500K
  • Piper Lance (turbo) / Purchase Price Used - 200K-220K
  • Cessna 210L / Purchase Price Used - 150K-200K

In spite of the cost, owning an airplane is a great experience and really gives you a sense of freedom but it does stress the pocketbook.

I hope this sets the expectation for anyone considering purchasing one.
src94
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listen closely to CaptnCarl and MaroonDontRun. Especially if you're new to GA. There is wisdom in their words.
CharlieBrown17
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Anyone doing any cool flying recently? Still out on baby leave and jonesing a bit.
CharlieBrown17
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CharlieBrown17 said:

Anyone doing any cool flying recently? Still out on baby leave and jonesing a bit.


Just have to do it yourself to get it done right I guess.

Flew last night and dropped 60 guys from the 75th rangers out the back. Pretty bizarre coordinating with Seattle approach for a drop. Usually we're not anywhere near that busy.
TxAg20
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CharlieBrown17 said:

Anyone doing any cool flying recently? Still out on baby leave and jonesing a bit.

I'm working on my helicopter rating. I'm enjoying it much more than any previous ratings or types. I should solo tomorrow.
CanyonAg77
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CharlieBrown17 said:

Anyone doing any cool flying recently? Still out on baby leave and jonesing a bit.

Not that impressive, but I saw a 747 in Amarillo just pushed out of the paint shop


CanyonAg77
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CanyonAg77
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Photographer Rodney Barstow of Amarillo. HMX-1 arriving in AMA on return from California


CharlieBrown17
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So how does a helo solo work?

Do you have to prove you can chant the black magic that keeps it in the air first or are you still on your instructors ticket for that?
CanyonAg77
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My Aggie classmate rotor heads all claims it takes great big balls.

They aren't clear if those are beach balls or bowling balls or…
BMach
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Hope to solo in the next week. Took a bit to figure how to get the damn thing back on the ground, but finally coming around.
TxAg20
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CharlieBrown17 said:

So how does a helo solo work?

Do you have to prove you can chant the black magic that keeps it in the air first or are you still on your instructors ticket for that?

The black magic is more a dance with both hands and feet instead of a chant. Ironically, the better you get at it, the less you move. I'm not completely sure what the FARs are for a new pilot in something other than a Robinson 22 or 44, as I'm an add-on in the R44 which is subject to SFAR 73.

I had to have 20 hours of dual before I can solo or log any PIC time. After 20 hours, I'm PIC.

I ended up not soloing today, winds were 18 kts and gusting. My instructor said I could solo if I wanted to, but pick-ups and set-downs are what I'm the least confident with. Without my 200# instructor in the left seat, the pick-ups and set-downs are sure to feel different. I didn't want to figure out the feel of the different weight distribution in gusting winds. I ended up doing approaches, slope landings, an off-airport landing, and hover autos today.
wamvoss
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I fly from Kerrville to Pearland several times a year. It takes me about an hour and a half and if I can get a tail wind, about an hour fifteen. But that's in good weather.
But if you factor in getting to the airport in Houston, doing a preflight, packing the plane, (won't take long because you can't carry much baggage), landing and then having to have some one pick you up or leave a vehicle, unpacking and then leaving a high dollar airplane sitting outside (especially with the hail more recently) you're not going to save more than an hour and a half.
You will need to keep a complete set of everything you need at the ranch because you won't be able to carry it.
Now back to the cost. A private license will cost $15,000 and an instrument rating about the same (more if you stretch it out). Insurance for a low timer in a 206 is about 10-12,000. More for the high performance retracts.
Also as your kids get older, the more activities they will be involved with. This will cause more got to get there itis and possibly night fights.
Next thing. Does your wife and kids like to fly? Getting beat up with turbulence or air sickness will turn you off very quickly.
How will your wife feel about the expense? Unless she really enjoys it and you have FU money and can write it off as a business expense otherwise, most spouses don't like that kind of expense. That's why I have a separate airplane account and fly an experimental.
CharlieBrown17
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Sounds like a smart call. Here's to better weather for ya next time.
91Challenger
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TRIPLE 7 said:

YES! Forty years & approx. 20,000 hours! Became hooked in 1963 at EASTERWOOD Airport while in the ROTC flight indoctrination program.

So, now, you're hooked! Love every minute of it! Good luck & fly safe!!

Cheers!


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