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200,757 Views | 1398 Replies | Last: 3 days ago by HarleySpoon
TxAg20
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CaptnCarl said:

No, but I'm thinking I can add MEL commercial locally within a few months.

Where I live, a commercial multi and an easy-going personality will get you all the right seat flying you want in King Airs, and single-pilot Citations. That will result in much more cash than logable hours, but if the captain is cool and let's you fly, you can probably log every other leg in the lighter planes.

I'm not condoning this, but I have a friend who is former naval aviator in the F-14 and F-18. He says "Fly when you can, log what you must."
CaptnCarl
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That's really my goal - fly right seat in King Airs and Citations in my free time. Ultimately I want to develop a second skill should oil and gas take a dive again. I think we both live in the same place.
CharlieBrown17
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TxAg20 said:

CaptnCarl said:

No, but I'm thinking I can add MEL commercial locally within a few months.

Where I live, a commercial multi and an easy-going personality will get you all the right seat flying you want in King Airs, and single-pilot Citations. That will result in much more cash than logable hours, but if the captain is cool and let's you fly, you can probably log every other leg in the lighter planes.

I'm not condoning this, but I have a friend who is former naval aviator in the F-14 and F-18. He says "Fly when you can, log what you must."


Ehh that attitude comes from the random additional currency items military pilots have imo not logging time
oragator
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Near collision in Austin.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11716817/Terrifying-moment-air-traffic-controllers-try-avoid-crash-Austin-airport.html
AgLA06
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I'd be interested in what some of the commercial pilots have to say on this. I know nothing, but the Southwest crew isn't looking real good with the early reports.

Took forever after cleared to the point air traffic control has to ask if they're going to take off. Then ignores the abort call and takes off anyway.

ATC probably should have intervened, but I'm not sure I blame them at this point.
ABATTBQ11
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I think this one is entirely on ATC for not being more decisive. Southwest knew FedEx was landing and vice versa, but neither knew exactly where the other was or what they were doing. ATC did and had the fullest picture but did not wave FedEx off or stop Southwest. When Southwest confirmed they were rolling, ATC should have told FedEx to climb and go around knowing that Southwest was still on the runway instead of watching FedEx try to land on Southwest. FedEx can tell Southwest to abort all day long, but if Southwest is past V1, then they can't without overshooting the runway. At this point, Southwest is probably trying to quickly decide if he actually can abort, and if he can, can they get out of the way before FedEx lands. Southwest probably didn't respond immediately because the pilots were going through the takeoff procedures and their focus was on aviating, not communicating, and they were trying to decide exactly what to do. When ATC tells him to go right and he says, "Negative," he's come to the realization that he has no other choice than to take off and has committed.

IMO, if FedEx needed Southwest to abort, FedEx should have just aborted the landing and gone around. It's a lot easier and safer to keep flying than it is to abort a takeoff. As soon as Southwest hesitated to confirm or deny an abort, they should have aborted themselves. ATC should have made the call on who was doing what much earlier. With the low visibility, they should have either told Southwest to hold short of the runway or told FedEx to go around because Southwest was lined up on the runway and would have presented a hazard.
CharlieBrown17
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Sorry but absolutely ****ing not.

SWA refusing the takeoff clearance in those conditions with hearing the traffic is about all that could be argued they definitely should've done different from the story given.

In CAT III operations there's absolutely no reason SWA should've been cleared to take off with that Fedex jet cleared to land. We're talking a runway with 1600' of vis on the approach and departure end and 600' in the middle. I can't really think of a time I wasn't at a military field and got cleared to take off in front of someone with landing clearance. It happens the other way fairly often where you get cleared to land after the take off clearance.

In CAT III operations not only is the SWA jet holding farther from the runway due to the ILS critical area but they can't see **** because of the fog and vis while lining up plus they're still running their line up checklist or equivalent. In a severe clear day, sure they should easily be expect to take off in under 50 seconds but I see no issue with them taking approximately 45-50 seconds to get lined up and rolling in these conditions. I know I wouldn't be doing a rolling take off in these conditions so that adds time too.

Besides the weather, the FedEx flying a CAT III is a huge reason the controller shouldn't have cleared them. CAT III is an autoland approach that needs high fidelity reception of the localizer. Even if that SWA jet takes off in time there's no way he's clear enough of whatever the CAT III Ops guidelines Austin uses.

ATC absolutely owns this **** up. Not only did he clear both aircraft, he reaffirmed FedEx was cleared to land when they tried to bail him out. Then he went absolutely silent and did nothing to fix the problem. Fedex captain justified every dollar they've ever paid him with this one.

Regarded the ignored abort call, that was FedEx thinking quickly and trying to provide the best chance of a good outcome. Fedex calls the abort for SWA as he's calling his own go around. Not sure if reject or abort is the company terminology for SWA so there's a chance SWA heard the call but didn't immediately react because it wasn't the phrase they were expecting there's also a chance that SWA was above their commit speed at the abort call. I've always been taught there's situations to ignore every rule but I'd be pretty hard pressed to reject past a commit speed because another aircraft told me too. That's not pride or thinking I'm Chuck Yeager, it's seeing how unexpected and complex that decision would've been in the instant it happened.

Hearing the calm demeanor in the FedEx pilots voice, even on the next approach is outstanding professionalism and quite frankly self control. I can't imagine what I would be saying, but it wouldn't be near that gracious or clean. Also completely insane the tower controller is still working his next arrival. Can't believe he wasn't immediately yanked.
FriscoAggieFan
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My oldest son is a Poke grad and stayed on to instruct for OK States aviation program. He is CFII rated and has just north of 500 hours - never failed a check ride and neither have his students. He also just received instructor of the month. Sorry for the proud Dad brag but he is really good at being a pilot.
There is a ton of experience on this thread and I was curious if anyone would like to share advice on how they navigated next steps which I would certainly forward to him. I know he will start applying for commercial gigs soon but I literally know nothing about the industry he decided to choose.
I was just the banker and I'm super stoked that part is over:-)
oragator
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Yeah I posted, it, but purposely didn't opine because I was curious as to any expert opinions. Because when I read it. in my completely layman's take, If the SWA pilot knew he had a time constraint and didn't meet it or report that he couldn't, that's seemingly on him. I did assume SWA was past point of no return on takeoff and didn't have time for a long convo at that point, and in bad visibility the fedex pilot probably didn't fully see his dilemma until late.
evan_aggie
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https://onemileatatime.com/news/southwest-fedex-planes-nearly-collide-runway/

Posted in another thread, but good breakdown and even better lambasting of the controller by another ATC of 26 years saying the same: totally went silent.

It was a mistake to give clearance, and a mistake to not immediately call for either abort or go-around when SWA said "rolling". That could have meant they were 50 feet into their TO.
AgLA06
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Makes sense. As a non pilot I have no understanding of norms for how close incoming traffic is and should / shouldn't be. Taking my kids to watch planes at Hobby, they seem extremely close incoming and going back to back constantly.

FedEx seems to be the only participant that knew what the hell was going on. If a military pilot knows 3 miles is too close in commercial aviation with bad visibility, one would think the Southwest pilot should also know that. At least not take forever without questioning anything.
oragator
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One more.
787 takes off, gets up to 1800 feet, and in 24 seconds drops down to 800 before the crew rectified it.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-11726467/Qatar-Airways-Dreamliner-came-800-FEET-ocean-descending-Doha.html
CenterHillAg
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This is 100% on ATC. But, Southwest may have had a part in setting themselves up for the trap they fell into. For years, they have thrown parties for ATC and airport employees, and in return expect some favoritism from them for Southwest ops. Their scheduling system relies on early/on time arrivals to keep the whole company moving. We saw the results of what happens a few weeks ago when you introduce delays. Multiple pilots have told me about being told to reduce speed on approaches, only to watch a Southwest aircraft overtake them. Heard the other side of the story from Southwest pilots too, they know it happens. Wouldn't surprise me if the controller thought he would get the Southwest plane out ahead of FedEx so they didn't have to sit a few more minutes, and then failed to do his job and expedite their departure or call FedEx to go around.
average_joker
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FriscoAggieFan said:

My oldest son is a Poke grad and stayed on to instruct for OK States aviation program. He is CFII rated and has just north of 500 hours - never failed a check ride and neither have his students. He also just received instructor of the month. Sorry for the proud Dad brag but he is really good at being a pilot.
There is a ton of experience on this thread and I was curious if anyone would like to share advice on how they navigated next steps which I would certainly forward to him. I know he will start applying for commercial gigs soon but I literally know nothing about the industry he decided to choose.
I was just the banker and I'm super stoked that part is over:-)
You can email me, username at yahoo, been nearly a decade since I was in those shoes, but I'll be happy to share my story.
CharlieBrown17
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In clear weather you can stack planes way tighter because everyone can do a rolling instead of standing takeoff and can leave the runway faster on landing.

Mil vs Civ doesn't make a huge difference in this case. I'm a heavy pilot so outside of not having my airline transport pilot cert I have all the same ratings as civ guys.

My job is probably 40% random international airports, 20 % big military bases that act closer to civilian fields. 20% small military bases that have no idea how to do anything but helos or fighters and 20% fields in underdeveloped countries where the rules go out the window.
BMach
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Hope to be joining the club soon. I've always been interested in aviation, but never found the time to get started. Well, last week, my boss (who owns multiple airplanes) offered to pay for me to go get my PPL and use company time to do it. I, obviously, jumped at the opportunity and my first lesson is next week. Super excited to finally get started.
AgLA06
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Y'all hiring?
CharlieBrown17
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Nice!

Where are you taking lessons?
BMach
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Genesis Aero in Georgetown
CharlieBrown17
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Ha small world.

I've always tried to find a way to spend tax payer money to take a plane back through Georgetown and it's never quite worked.
CharlieBrown17
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New watch post. Just got my Bremont Alt-1 WT in. More specifically the version made for C-17 Air Crew. The WT was made for the British C-17 squadron and then opened up to all of us. Differs from the production version with the dial and the bezel. The normal one features international airports instead of airports/bases important to the 17 community.













trouble
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That's even cooler than I thought it would be!
falcon09
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Sweet watch!

Too bad I've only been to 11/24 of the airfields, and I probably won't have many opportunities to make to more out of Altus.
CharlieBrown17
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Wasn't it del rio at some point? Altus is better than that at least.
Dallasag517
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hey trouble, are you into aviation? do you fly any?
trouble
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No but my kid does
Dallasag517
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oh outstanding! stay safe if you have this nasty storm in your area
CanyonAg77
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Fantastic. Fly at least twice a week, three times if you can. Less than that, you forget too much between lessons
CanyonAg77
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Cool! My Favorite Pilot had a couple of pilot watches, but her squadron put them all on Apple Watches so they could have data such as O2 saturation
BaitShack
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Moy
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Dan Gryder covers an off-field landing near the Mothership, west of CLL near Hwy 47



CanyonAg77
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I know it's a Facebook link, but they guy is a professional photographer, so I didn't want to steal his image uncredited. Some really cool photos of an Elephant Walk at Altus AFB, KC-135s and C-17s

https://www.facebook.com/groups/128291860579641/permalink/8919975968077809/
TxAg20
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Moy said:

Dan Gryder covers an off-field landing near the Mothership, west of CLL near Hwy 47






Video is private. Was Dan the pilot, again?
CharlieBrown17
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I assume this was the annual weather scramble practice.

Since Altus is in tornado country, they usually do a weather flush one Friday in the spring. I was there for copilot airdrop around this time last year and got a day off for it.
CanyonAg77
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Seems likely. Lots of bases were busy that day. There were military aircraft all over the Panhandle and West Texas then, from T-6's up. I saw a loose formation of two KC-135s and one K-46 (?) over Hale County that day.
 
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