So if women can reject consent after they regret their consent afterwards, can a guy reject their consent afterwards if they realize they were affected by beer goggles? A coyote ugly situation.

Culturally we have Beth Dutton a role model for older women and plied songs like WAP on the younger ones. And then we wonder why they are such a mess.

Schrodinger's female at it again Woman both have agency and have no agency simultaneously until observed. The state is determined by who is observing.

Every frat has its female "regulars" who are at parties for the alcohol, party favors, and sex. "Consenting adults" are the keywords.

some new info in here, at least new to me:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/investigative-records-give-insight-accused-cornell-student-responded-a-rcna600987

So, she's fine with what happened until word of what she did spread around campus. Then, she's embarrassed and tries to salvage her "reputation" by claiming rape, and filing a lawsuit. This is BS.

Did she sleep with all seven at the same time? I'm curious how that works…I mean I took several biology courses and I have had sexual relations with a woman before. That's a lot of swords…

TyHolden said:

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Did she sleep with all seven at the same time? I'm curious how that works…I mean I took several biology courses and I have had sexual relations with a woman before. That's a lot of swords…

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I'm honestly still confused on that portion. From everything I've read and seen, I think "relations" were only had with frat bros 1, 2 and 3 definitively, all of which was consensual. Dudes 4-7 were in the room, but unless I've missed it, there have not been claims other than one tried to make out with her and she rebuffed it and others snorted ketamine off her body, but asked her if they could first. I'm assuming the claim is that everything after the first two agreed upon and consensual threesomes was forced upon her, but not sure, and it seems like there may be a claimed gray area timeline where she doesn't know what happened, but it's vaguely referenced. As far as actual sex, it was frat bros 1 and 2 in the initial threesome, until both became either too sick or too inebriated to continue, and then she took care of both. Then, I think her crush, frat bro 1 came back to life and frat bro 3 tagged in for frat bro 2…and then at some point it became a room full of dudes looking to join the party. It's honestly hard to keep up with though.

Legally, it seems like it's going to be incredibly challenging to do much when the first two threesomes were consensual (and then even asked if it could be arranged again) days after this all went down. But, this has all gone from court of law to court of public opinion and court of social media, so who knows.

zgolfz85 said:

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TyHolden said:

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Did she sleep with all seven at the same time? I'm curious how that works…I mean I took several biology courses and I have had sexual relations with a woman before. That's a lot of swords…

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Legally, it seems like it's going to be incredibly challenging to do much when the first two threesomes were consensual (and then even asked if it could be arranged again) days after this all went down. But, this has all gone from court of law to court of public opinion and court of social media, so who knows.

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And she said over text nothing illegal happened. And 10 days later she tried to go back to the same frat for the Halloween party for more sex.

stetson said:

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So, she's fine with what happened until word of what she did spread around campus. Then, she's embarrassed and tries to salvage her "reputation" by claiming rape, and filing a lawsuit. This is BS.

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If you read her texts and account of what happened at the time there is no question this is the issue. It's also a virtual certainty her sorority sisters encouraged her to call it rape instead of being a girl who was cool with doing what she did. Why? It reflects on them and their sorority. Without it being "rape" it just means that Tri Delt girls are the biggest hoes on campus. With "rape" charges the negative aspect falls almost completely on the Frat and men.

If you don't think that sorority girls didn't make that calculation in terms of how they treated this situation you are crazy. Girls join sororities for social status and to be associated with other high quality girls. Having a sister who everyone on campus knows thinks it's cool to go to a frat and do a couple 3 somes while doing drugs and then bragging about it (which she basically did in the texts afterward) would be an absolute disaster for them. Yet we are supposed to completely ignore this and assume that the sorority sisters were only deeply concerned about her being raped. The way the social stigma of what it would mean for her to have consented to doing what she did would be pretty much the worst thing these girls could imagine.

aggie93 said:

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stetson said:

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So, she's fine with what happened until word of what she did spread around campus. Then, she's embarrassed and tries to salvage her "reputation" by claiming rape, and filing a lawsuit. This is BS.

---

If you read her texts and account of what happened at the time there is no question this is the issue. It's also a virtual certainty her sorority sisters encouraged her to call it rape instead of being a girl who was cool with doing what she did. Why? It reflects on them and their sorority. Without it being "rape" it just means that Tri Delt girls are the biggest hoes on campus. With "rape" charges the negative aspect falls almost completely on the Frat and men.

If you don't think that sorority girls didn't make that calculation in terms of how they treated this situation you are crazy. Girls join sororities for social status and to be associated with other high quality girls. Having a sister who everyone on campus knows thinks it's cool to go to a frat and do a couple 3 somes while doing drugs and then bragging about it (which she basically did in the texts afterward) would be an absolute disaster for them. Yet we are supposed to completely ignore this and assume that the sorority sisters were only deeply concerned about her being raped. The way the social stigma of what it would mean for her to have consented to doing what she did would be pretty much the worst thing these girls could imagine.

---

Basically this. She did all of this willingly, it was only after two things happened that she changed her story:
1. Her sorority sister said that rumors around campus was that she was a complete *****, accused of participating in alcohol and drug-fueled gangbangs at a frat house (an entirely predictable consequence that were only caused by her own actions because she chose to participate in alcohol and drug-fueled gangbangs at a frat house).
2. She was disinvited from a subsequent party and shunned by the frat, in attempt to distance themselves from this train-wreck, and liability, of a person.

After that, suddenly, her entire story changed; and now she is suing the university, for money that she will honestly probably get.

She also admitted that next time (at the party she was rejected from) she might take keatmine and then pretend to pass out so then she could claim that it was non-consensual and that she was raped. The frat President called her and told her she couldn't come, and that's when she went to the police. Please let me know where I am wrong or what I am missing here...

combat wombat said:

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Guys, as a female, I'm floored at the number of women who lack the desire or ability to think rationally. Maybe I'm just dealing with the dumbest of the lot… but the hate and vitriol being spewed by women about this Cornell case is mind-boggling.

The automatic support of ANY woman who cries rape regardless of the actual facts is actually disheartening. I have two sons and a daughter. The thought that the boys lives could be ruined at any moment buy some mentally deranged woman who chooses to accuse them of rape is terrifying. They don't actually have to be guilty because they'll get the mob going and that's all it takes.

Some woman was saying that she HATES ALL MEN. Excuse me? That's no different than saying you hate all black people.

So sad.

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I hope you keep fighting the good fight, your boys need you to. Women are the only ones that can fix this among women.

FWIW I think a big part of the problem is just how many women now really don't have an understanding of men and it makes it very easy to just hate them or blame them. Many women grew up without a Dad or brothers they were close to. Many have never been married. Many have only had girls and tend to skew their perspective towards them. I've seen a very different perspective from boy moms because they can see the world as it impacts their boys who they love dearly. They want them to be treated fairly. They also understand women and they get very protective of their boys because of it. Used to be you had women marrying younger and having 3 or more kids as a norm (thus likely having at least 1 boy) but now it is less common.

All of this is so unhealthy for us as society. It's bad for boys who are being taught a girl saying yes can later mean no if she changes her mind and if she does your life is ruined. It's bad for girls who are being taught not to take responsibility for their choices and will find more and more good men who check out of dating. It's worst for actual rape victims who now have the horrific crime that was perpetrated on them cheapened to be compared to what this girl did and it makes people more skeptical to believe them.

Can we all agree that gang bangs are effing gross? Even if they're consensual?

TyHolden said:

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Did she sleep with all seven at the same time? I'm curious how that works…I mean I took several biology courses and I have had sexual relations with a woman before. That's a lot of swords…

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Look up Piper Perri gang bang. Redhead got passed around like a hot potato

TyHolden said:

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Did she sleep with all seven at the same time? I'm curious how that works…I mean I took several biology courses and I have had sexual relations with a woman before. That's a lot of swords…

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Ok, Im not really sure where to start with this reply, brother, but first of all...she wasn't really sleeping.

BadMoonRisin said:

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TyHolden said:

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Did she sleep with all seven at the same time? I'm curious how that works…I mean I took several biology courses and I have had sexual relations with a woman before. That's a lot of swords…

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Ok, Im not really sure where to start with this reply, brother, but first of all...she wasn't really sleeping.

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Her legs or arms might have fallen asleep.

BadMoonRisin said:

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TyHolden said:

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Did she sleep with all seven at the same time? I'm curious how that works…I mean I took several biology courses and I have had sexual relations with a woman before. That's a lot of swords…

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Ok, Im not really sure where to start with this reply, brother, but first of all...she wasn't really sleeping.

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Let's just say I don't have a lot of experience in the multiples-thing. Hell, I can barely handle one at a time lol. But that's a solid 30-60 seconds of pure love.

Jugstore Cowboy said:

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Can we all agree that gang bangs are effing gross? Even if they're consensual?

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Sure, but that's really irrelevant. Lots of sexual preferences are "gross" but legal. A big part of the issue with this is people are repulsed by the act and the thought that any girl would do that or guys would go along with it as well. I could say the same thing about OF. Or porn. Or swingers. Or a lot of "acts" I won't describe here but are super cringeworthy or worse. I mean your average Pride parade makes it clear there are folks into some really wild stuff I don't even want to imagine.

All that matters is if the acts were consensual and were any laws broken. Everything else is really a distraction.

Jugstore Cowboy said:

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Can we all agree that gang bangs are effing gross? Even if they're consensual?

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Kink shaming is violence!

Quote:

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Quote:

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Jugstore Cowboy said:
Can we all agree that gang bangs are effing gross? Even if they're consensual?

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Sure, but that's really irrelevant.

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Not really; shame and disgust need to make a comeback.

I thought the same thing during the Duke Lacrosse scandal. How is it our fight? Why do online "conservatives" think they need to Take to the Keyboards! every time a group of ponce little rich kids use a drunk chick as an excuse to have sex together?

These same little libertine elitists kids will be pushing everything you hate as soon as they get into the board room or public office.

We're slipping, ten pages and I don't recall seeing:

Jugstore Cowboy said:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Jugstore Cowboy said:
Can we all agree that gang bangs are effing gross? Even if they're consensual?

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Sure, but that's really irrelevant.

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Not really; shame and disgust need to make a comeback.

I thought the same thing during the Duke Lacrosse scandal. How is it our fight? Why do online "conservatives" think they need to Take to the Keyboards! every time a group of ponce little rich kids use a drunk chick as an excuse to have sex together?

These same little libertine elitists kids will be pushing everything you hate as soon as they get into the board room or public office.

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You're missing the point. It's not about defending rich frat boys. It's about defending justice.

You don't need to go to drug fueled orgies to be at risk of getting falsely accused.

What is sad is that she bought the feminist lie. Women and men are the same, we are not wired differently. Women can be just as free sexually. Sexual without consequences is awesome. Sex is natural; it's just sex. Everybody is doing it. Blah blah blah.

How's that working out for her? How about those guys?

Jugstore Cowboy said:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Jugstore Cowboy said:
Can we all agree that gang bangs are effing gross? Even if they're consensual?

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Sure, but that's really irrelevant.

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Not really; shame and disgust need to make a comeback.

I thought the same thing during the Duke Lacrosse scandal. How is it our fight? Why do online "conservatives" think they need to Take to the Keyboards! every time a group of ponce little rich kids use a drunk chick as an excuse to have sex together?

These same little libertine elitists kids will be pushing everything you hate as soon as they get into the board room or public office.

---

Still a distraction. It's disgusting and shameful. Every day that happens and it has happened for a very long time. Remember "Animal House" made a joke out of statutory rape of a 13 year old girl who was drunk. That was actually illegal. Plenty of movies about threesomes and orgies and all kinds of crap. Plenty of things that happen in real life that are far worse.

If you want to tell people to live moral lives I'm with you, I've certainly done so with my boys to the best of my ability. I know they would never engage in anything remotely close to this. That has zero to do with this.

This is about legal and civil responsibility, without that element no one would have even heard about this. There is no sane reasoning that a woman who repeatedly gave consent, then when she said she didn't they stopped, was raped. Especially when she very much wanted to go back to the same Frat house to have sex with some of the same guys and literally said nothing illegal happened. Secondarily it's about whether or not women have agency. If you think women are incapable of making choices or that they are too vulnerable to be held accountable to their choices then a lot of things in society and the law need to change. That still has nothing to do with the legal case here though.

Somewhere well past that is the outrage that college kids do some really irresponsible things and we should shame them. Focusing on that though ignores the much, much more important realities above that impact everyone. BTW, if it makes you feel any better the shame the sorority girls pushed on her for her actions and how that would impact them is why she claimed rape. Had it not been seen as shameful and immoral this story would have never been a story. It was the fact people found out was the issue not the actual act.

TXAG 05 said:

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Hardcore Greg said:

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samurai_science said:

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If I am the boys attorneys, I am telling them to pretend to be gay/bi/sexually fluid. That would be brilliant. That could only help them. The current screechers and the media and AOC would back the F off if it came about that they were also fooling around with each other.

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Probably not a hard sell considering they all had no problem being close together with their dongs hanging out.

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Yep, every other rap song talks about group sex or sharing girls, which has always struck me as one of the most disgusting things you can so, and definietly on the spectrum of homosexuality.

Take home lesson,
Dads stay home, this is an example of what happens when your daughter has "daddy issues"
Boys, a frat is not a license to rape and pillage, that is for our illegal military age third world invaders.

combat wombat said:

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Guys, as a female, I'm floored at the number of women who lack the desire or ability to think rationally. Maybe I'm just dealing with the dumbest of the lot… but the hate and vitriol being spewed by women about this Cornell case is mind-boggling.

The automatic support of ANY woman who cries rape regardless of the actual facts is actually disheartening. I have two sons and a daughter. The thought that the boys lives could be ruined at any moment buy some mentally deranged woman who chooses to accuse them of rape is terrifying. They don't actually have to be guilty because they'll get the mob going and that's all it takes.

Some woman was saying that she HATES ALL MEN. Excuse me? That's no different than saying you hate all black people.

So sad.

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Great post, you're a good mother and you're children are blessed to have you.

My fav are the women who say that men need to "sit down and shut up" as if it's ridiculous to have any sort of opinion on stuff like this if you are a man. Even though many of us know at least one REAL rape victim in our lives who was actually drugged and raped or vioilated when they were passed out or molested by someone they trusted etc etc.

This just waters everything down and does a disservice to the real women we should be caring about. Beyond realizing that we make mistakes when we are young, and that someones self-inflicted wounds are the worst, I just don't have any real sympathy for this Jane Doe. Some girls are just nymphomaniacs or overly willing to give it up and engage in hyper degenerate behavior for attention, validation etc.

I hate to judge a book by it's cover, but if that really IS her in the image a few pages back, well that's another red flag. She SCREAMS promiscuity. Again, IF that's really her.

Jugstore Cowboy said:

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Can we all agree that gang bangs are effing gross? Even if they're consensual?

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1000%

I have never understood the desire to engage in one...from the male or female side. These kids probably watch a lot of crazy porn and listen to a lot of rap music.

There is no way I would be able to even function with another dude in the room. Now, multiple women and just me? I would hope that I could be strong at that age, not gonna lie.

Hardcore Greg said:

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Jugstore Cowboy said:

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Can we all agree that gang bangs are effing gross? Even if they're consensual?

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1000%

I have never understood the desire to engage in one...from the male or female side. These kids probably watch a lot of crazy porn and listen to a lot of rap music.

There is no way I would be able to even function with another dude in the room. Now, multiple women and just me? I would hope that I could be strong at that age, not gonna lie.

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On the grand scale of nasty **** people do to get off, pulling a train on some freaky college cat doesn't seem all that bad.

Young, incredibly dumb, foolish, and risky business. Demerits should be issued to all involved.

But you repeatedly take Ketamine you are bound to wind up in situations like this or floating in a hot tub with no friends.

Seems she may have been more than a casual "key" user judging by her familiarity with a UTI.

Hardcore Greg said:

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Jugstore Cowboy said:

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Can we all agree that gang bangs are effing gross? Even if they're consensual?

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1000%

I have never understood the desire to engage in one...from the male or female side. These kids probably watch a lot of crazy porn and listen to a lot of rap music.

There is no way I would be able to even function with another dude in the room. Now, multiple women and just me? I would hope that I could be strong at that age, not gonna lie.

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Yeah, on the last part of multiple women, I'd take one, or seventy, for the male team.

Put me in, coach.

combat wombat said:

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What is sad is that she bought the feminist lie. Women and men are the same, we are not wired differently. Women can be just as free sexually. Sexual without consequences is awesome. Sex is natural; it's just sex. Everybody is doing it. Blah blah blah.

How's that working out for her? How about those guys?

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Wait, does that mean that men are naturally looking and willing to rape women if given a chance?

I'm not understanding the comparison of A woman wanting to be free to have sex.

No Spin Ag said:

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combat wombat said:

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What is sad is that she bought the feminist lie. Women and men are the same, we are not wired differently. Women can be just as free sexually. Sexual without consequences is awesome. Sex is natural; it's just sex. Everybody is doing it. Blah blah blah.

How's that working out for her? How about those guys?

---

Wait, does that mean that men are naturally looking and willing to rape women if given a chance?

I'm not understanding the comparison of A woman wanting to be free to have sex.

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She was free and gave it out freely but society (including most women) does not actually want total freedom as that includes freedom from judgement. Because she wasn't totally free, she became a social leper who viewed her way to redemption as claiming rape.

chickencoupe16 said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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combat wombat said:

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What is sad is that she bought the feminist lie. Women and men are the same, we are not wired differently. Women can be just as free sexually. Sexual without consequences is awesome. Sex is natural; it's just sex. Everybody is doing it. Blah blah blah.

How's that working out for her? How about those guys?

---

Wait, does that mean that men are naturally looking and willing to rape women if given a chance?

I'm not understanding the comparison of A woman wanting to be free to have sex.

---

She was free and gave it out freely but society (including most women) does not actually want total freedom as that includes freedom from judgement. Because she wasn't totally free, she became a social leper who viewed her way to redemption as claiming rape.

---

That's an interesting take.

So how many of the men, after the two (i believe to recall) whom she actually wanted to have sex, would be considered rapists then?

Or was she in for a penny in for a pound (no pun intended) once she spread her legs, so every guy who took their turn should be seen in the same light as the ones she actually wanted to be with?

No Spin Ag said:

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chickencoupe16 said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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combat wombat said:

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What is sad is that she bought the feminist lie. Women and men are the same, we are not wired differently. Women can be just as free sexually. Sexual without consequences is awesome. Sex is natural; it's just sex. Everybody is doing it. Blah blah blah.

How's that working out for her? How about those guys?

---

Wait, does that mean that men are naturally looking and willing to rape women if given a chance?

I'm not understanding the comparison of A woman wanting to be free to have sex.

---

She was free and gave it out freely but society (including most women) does not actually want total freedom as that includes freedom from judgement. Because she wasn't totally free, she became a social leper who viewed her way to redemption as claiming rape.

---

That's an interesting take.

So how many of the men, after the two (i believe to recall) whom she actually wanted to have sex, would be considered rapists then?

Or was she in for a penny in for a pound (no pun intended) once she spread her legs, so every guy who took their turn should be seen in the same light as the ones she actually wanted to be with?

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I suppose that depends on which Jane Doe's statements you choose to believe; the ones in the days immediately following where she said "none of the sexual stuff was illegal" and wanted another threesome or the later statements after society began to ostracize her for being a **** and a liability.

BadMoonRisin said:

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aggie93 said:

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stetson said:

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So, she's fine with what happened until word of what she did spread around campus. Then, she's embarrassed and tries to salvage her "reputation" by claiming rape, and filing a lawsuit. This is BS.

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If you read her texts and account of what happened at the time there is no question this is the issue. It's also a virtual certainty her sorority sisters encouraged her to call it rape instead of being a girl who was cool with doing what she did. Why? It reflects on them and their sorority. Without it being "rape" it just means that Tri Delt girls are the biggest hoes on campus. With "rape" charges the negative aspect falls almost completely on the Frat and men.

If you don't think that sorority girls didn't make that calculation in terms of how they treated this situation you are crazy. Girls join sororities for social status and to be associated with other high quality girls. Having a sister who everyone on campus knows thinks it's cool to go to a frat and do a couple 3 somes while doing drugs and then bragging about it (which she basically did in the texts afterward) would be an absolute disaster for them. Yet we are supposed to completely ignore this and assume that the sorority sisters were only deeply concerned about her being raped. The way the social stigma of what it would mean for her to have consented to doing what she did would be pretty much the worst thing these girls could imagine.

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Basically this. She did all of this willingly, it was only after two things happened that she changed her story:
1. Her sorority sister said that rumors around campus was that she was a complete *****, accused of participating in alcohol and drug-fueled gangbangs at a frat house (an entirely predictable consequence that were only caused by her own actions because she chose to participate in alcohol and drug-fueled gangbangs at a frat house).
2. She was disinvited from a subsequent party and shunned by the frat, in attempt to distance themselves from this train-wreck, and liability, of a person.

After that, suddenly, her entire story changed; and now she is suing the university, for money that she will honestly probably get.

She also admitted that next time (at the party she was rejected from) she might take keatmine and then pretend to pass out so then she could claim that it was non-consensual and that she was raped. The frat President called her and told her she couldn't come, and that's when she went to the police. Please let me know where I am wrong or what I am missing here...

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Furthermore, in my day, if you did something that was not up to sorority character standards, you would be called before the president and a committee to explain yourself and receive counsel or punishment. I knew someone who posed for Playboy and got kicked out. I got in trouble once for drinking, some of my sisters got in trouble for weed and MIPs. She could easily have been kicked out of the sorority so there is a 3rd point to her motivation.