Data center

18,557 Views | 254 Replies | Last: 7 hrs ago by Brwnpt19_21
Old McDonald
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txags92 said:

YNWA.2013 said:



" Amazon isn't connecting to the public grid. It's building its own gas plant, off the books, off the radar, and largely outside the community oversight a normal grid connection would trigger"

Sounds like the "switch" part in the "bait and switch"

This is what pisses me off about the whole NIMBY thing. Everybody *****es about some company wanting to build a data center in the middle of rich ag land and next door to their family ranch.

NIMBY: "Why can't you go build it some place in the middle of nowhere?"

Company decides to build in the middle of the trans-Pecos where nothing grows except cactus and oil.

NIMBY: "But you are going to destroy our power grid with your energy demands!"

Company decides to build their own power plant entirely off the grid.

NIMBY: "But you are going to produce a bunch of CO2 and your operations are going to be outside of the reach of our community oversight!"

If you don't want the power plant near you and you don't want them to connect to the grid, then you lose the right to be the "community oversight" and to make demands about how they power it beyond making sure they follow the air emissions permitting process.

What NIMBY really wants is for it not to be built anywhere but China. If you think China won't use AI and data control dominance to make demands on the rest of the world, you are delusional. But here we are letting China help whip up a NIMBY frenzy on social media and making it harder and harder for data centers to do business.


people need to realize that the commonly cited anti-data center complaints about noise, pollution, water, etc. are all masking the underlying grievance, which is that they're a physical representation of people's concerns around AI.

the AI companies keep telling people AI will take their jobs and maybe destroy the world (mostly hyperbole to hype their products), printing money as they do it, all while the government contracts them to implement mass surveillance of a populace struggling to afford basic needs. this is why saying things like "closed loop cooling system! low emission onsite power gen! far from residential areas!" do nothing to make people feel better about them.
txags92
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AG
Old McDonald said:

txags92 said:

YNWA.2013 said:



" Amazon isn't connecting to the public grid. It's building its own gas plant, off the books, off the radar, and largely outside the community oversight a normal grid connection would trigger"

Sounds like the "switch" part in the "bait and switch"

This is what pisses me off about the whole NIMBY thing. Everybody *****es about some company wanting to build a data center in the middle of rich ag land and next door to their family ranch.

NIMBY: "Why can't you go build it some place in the middle of nowhere?"

Company decides to build in the middle of the trans-Pecos where nothing grows except cactus and oil.

NIMBY: "But you are going to destroy our power grid with your energy demands!"

Company decides to build their own power plant entirely off the grid.

NIMBY: "But you are going to produce a bunch of CO2 and your operations are going to be outside of the reach of our community oversight!"

If you don't want the power plant near you and you don't want them to connect to the grid, then you lose the right to be the "community oversight" and to make demands about how they power it beyond making sure they follow the air emissions permitting process.

What NIMBY really wants is for it not to be built anywhere but China. If you think China won't use AI and data control dominance to make demands on the rest of the world, you are delusional. But here we are letting China help whip up a NIMBY frenzy on social media and making it harder and harder for data centers to do business.



people need to realize that the commonly cited anti-data center complaints about noise, pollution, water, etc. are all masking the underlying grievance, which is that they're a physical representation of people's concerns around AI.

the AI companies keep telling people AI will take their jobs and maybe destroy the world (mostly hyperbole to hype their products), printing money as they do it, all while the government contracts them to implement mass surveillance of a populace struggling to afford basic needs. this is why saying things like "closed loop cooling system! low emission onsite power gen! far from residential areas!" do nothing to make people feel better about them.

I share plenty of the concerns about how AI will be used in the future. But I am not naive enough to think that stopping a data center from being built in rural Bastrop county is going to keep those things from happening. Does it make you feel better if we stop building them in the US and let the Chinese decide the future of how AI operates and what it is allowed to do? That idea absolutely terrifies me. The more we can do to make sure that the US is driving the truck when it comes to advancing AI, the more control we as a population will have over ultimately how it is used here. Leaving dominance of it in the hands of the Chinese should be a fate the entire world is committed to preventing.
Old McDonald
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agreed on all counts. i work in data center infra for a hyper scaler; i've had a front row seat to my industry bungling PR for data centers over the past few years and fundamentally misunderstanding the underlying reasons for the populist backlash it brought upon them. we risk kneecapping our country in the AI race with the doomerism and abuse coming out of silicon valley and washington.
Mas89
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AG
gkaggie08 said:

I don't live next to one, yet, but there is one going up 50 miles from me. This is rural West Texas. People I know there tell me the traffic is absolutely horrible. A trip across town used to take 5 minutes, now it's 30.

The worst I've heard has been gravel trucks. Those guys are being paid by the load and DGAF about traffic laws, roadway etiquette, nothing. There have been several wrecks due to these trucks.

You put 3000 workers in a town of 2500, resources get stretched beyond their limits

Exact same problem every time a toll road is built thru a town. And multiple other large projects. Years of construction problems often.
Serious Lee
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slippery slope rearing its head again? Rewriting history is just too easy when converting from physical to digital media.

InfantryAg
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AG
Serious Lee said:

slippery slope rearing its head again? Rewriting history is just too easy when converting from physical to digital media.



The poster says this:
"Project Panama is our effort to destructively scan all the books in the world."
Next line: "We don't want it to be known that we are working on this."

But I don't see that in the actual post from the company scanning the books.
What I'm reading is that the company wants to scan every book ever published to digitize it. The easiest way to do that is to remove the binding, covers etc, essentially to make them able to be run through the scanner. That will destroy that one copy of the book.

I have serious DOUBTS that they want to destroy every book in the world, and I don't understand why people would think they are going to destroy all books.
HollywoodBQ
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AG
Serious Lee said:

slippery slope rearing its head again? Rewriting history is just too easy when converting from physical to digital media.


I did work at dot.com start up Net Library in Boulder back in the year 2000.

They were scanning books in and doing OCR and had editors checking the scanning.

The problem they had was getting legal publishing rights.
YouBet
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AG
How is this group going into get inside the millions of homes, scan those books, and then delete them?
Deputy Travis Junior
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Old McDonald said:


the AI companies keep telling people AI will take their jobs and maybe destroy the world (mostly hyperbole to hype their products), printing money as they do it, all while the government contracts them to implement mass surveillance of a populace struggling to afford basic needs. this is why saying things like "closed loop cooling system! low emission onsite power gen! far from residential areas!" do nothing to make people feel better about them.


Pretty epic messaging failure by these companies. Reality is that the computing resources are so scarce that nobody is going to bother deploying AI systems to replace a process that you pay an FTE $60k/year to do. Not when you can use the same resources to work on drug development projects that will generate tens of billions of revenue or materials science research that will help send humans to Mars.

This is Ricardo's comparative advantages in a new form: How do we allocate scarce productive resources most efficiently, except now the productive resources include AI? We don't worry about 160 IQ physicists taking the jobs of retail workers and we wouldn't worry about this either. These systems are going to have bigger things to work on for a long time.
Brwnpt19_21
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Biggest thing for us is that rent increased 2-3x in our town of 1800. We hadn't lived there long in the grand scheme (just 1.5 years) but we had planned to stay there another year until we could afford to buy a house. Our landlord messaged us and told us they would be charging about $3700/month compared to the $1200 we had been paying.
 
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