After reading this thread, I think I now know where they get folks for interviews on alien abductions ...
Data center
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Last: 4 days ago by txags92
I like Willies songs, and I come from a farming background, but Willie needs to stick with Farm Aid. There is counties full of idle farm and ranch land that just sits unproductive because there is little money to be made in agriculture. That is not the doing of any tech company or data center. There is a lot of misplaced villanization going on by people line him and Sid Miller. Of they cared about losing farmland, they would be working to make agriculture more profitable.
I am seeing data centers getting built on 300 and 400 acre tracts. Imagine if a vegetable processor, chicken processor, or cattle feedlot went up on those same tracts.
I am seeing data centers getting built on 300 and 400 acre tracts. Imagine if a vegetable processor, chicken processor, or cattle feedlot went up on those same tracts.
bobbranco said:gkaggie08 said:
I don't live next to one, yet, but there is one going up 50 miles from me. This is rural West Texas. People I know there tell me the traffic is absolutely horrible. A trip across town used to take 5 minutes, now it's 30.
The worst I've heard has been gravel trucks. Those guys are being paid by the load and DGAF about traffic laws, roadway etiquette, nothing. There have been several wrecks due to these trucks.
You put 3000 workers in a town of 2500, resources get stretched beyond their limits
Gravel trucks will not be travelling the highways when the datacenter is complete. And I don't think 3000 workers is required to operate a datacenter. It's probably no more than 300.
If anyone is concerned about all the people working at a data center causing too much traffic, all they have to do is look at the proposed parking lots for these facilities. They aren't that big.
jja79 said:
Sorry that's been your experience. I've got 2 within a mile of me and no noise, no lights, no traffic and I only know they're there because I hear people complaining but they can't tell me why. Utility prices aren't any different than they were and no issues with water.
The question posed in the OP is tricky. It is going to depend on where you live and who is operating the DC. If this was in town or a subdivision where you are surrounded by low level noise, traffic, neighbors AC systems, it would be different and you'd not likely hear it. If you are within 30 minutes of a major city, you probably aren't going to be affected by DC lights and noise.
I don't really understand the 'no lights' comment. If they don't have security lighting they may be tiny operators or their location is in a spot where light pollution is so extreme it's not noticed.
It's dark where I am. I mean, my dogs disappear in the yard 15' away and the milky way extends from horizon to horizon dark. A quarter moon will cast a shadow.
For a DC, the noise levels will depend on the types of equipment they have and location, which again, will depend on the operator. I have only visited about 4 of these around the area, and again, being rural, they are very audible within a mile or more depending on conditions.
Quiet is a relative term. Where I am, I can hear the UPS guy idling his diesel at my gate 3/4 mile away. It's a level of quiet most folks don't have an understanding of. Data centers moving into these areas are incredibly disrupting and there is no fix for it. There is no spec of lighting or noise abatement that will resolve that, unfortunately.
bobbranco said:gkaggie08 said:
I don't live next to one, yet, but there is one going up 50 miles from me. This is rural West Texas. People I know there tell me the traffic is absolutely horrible. A trip across town used to take 5 minutes, now it's 30.
The worst I've heard has been gravel trucks. Those guys are being paid by the load and DGAF about traffic laws, roadway etiquette, nothing. There have been several wrecks due to these trucks.
You put 3000 workers in a town of 2500, resources get stretched beyond their limits
Gravel trucks will not be travelling the highways when the datacenter is complete. And I don't think 3000 workers is required to operate a datacenter. It's probably no more than 300.
If it's more than 30 I would be surprised
I do love any issue that unites right wing cranks and left wing environmental wackos
It's a big warehouse full of computers
It's a big warehouse full of computers
A couple of reasons you didn't see "dust ups" from previous generations of farmers and ranchers. Previously they were simply trying to eke out a living on their piece of ground. Those farms and ranches were.t some part of their diversified portfolio. It was their sole livelihood. Oil and gas production put money in there pockets like nothing before. So they accepted the damage to keep food on the table. Not the case the case with the next generation. They have a job somewhere and don't need the money near as bad. They want to enjoy the land, not make a living on it.
Also, there was no internet so not everyone knew exactly what was and was not being done every second of every day. They could have raised billy goat hell and you would not have known.
Now these are general statements, and certainly not the case in every situation, but you get the idea.
Also, there was no internet so not everyone knew exactly what was and was not being done every second of every day. They could have raised billy goat hell and you would not have known.
Now these are general statements, and certainly not the case in every situation, but you get the idea.
Water is not a problem. This is misinformation intentionally spread.
In the North, the DCs are really not a problem as cooling is helped by winter temps.
In the North, the DCs are really not a problem as cooling is helped by winter temps.
The 3000 is the construction workers. They will be there 2 years
You'd love living near Space-X in McGregor. Every time I visit my mom, I have to straighten the pictures on the wall. I do have to admit the overpressure from the rocket firings 8 miles away is kind of cool for the first 5 seconds. I know... this is about Data Centers. I'm just letting you know, it could be way worse at your property than having a Data Center nearby.BrazosDog02 said:
For a DC, the noise levels will depend on the types of equipment they have and location, which again, will depend on the operator. I have only visited about 4 of these around the area, and again, being rural, they are very audible within a mile or more depending on conditions.
Quiet is a relative term. Where I am, I can hear the UPS guy idling his diesel at my gate 3/4 mile away. It's a level of quiet most folks don't have an understanding of. Data centers moving into these areas are incredibly disrupting and there is no fix for it. There is no spec of lighting or noise abatement that will resolve that, unfortunately.
With respect to light pollution, check out what they did in Nevada with SB 52.
The verbiage is here:
https://www.leg.state.nv.us/Statutes/81st2021/Stats202102.html#Stats202102page106
You need to get Texas to give you a Dark Skies designation (although I don't think such legislation exists in Texas). Check out these sites in Nevada.
https://www.nevadawilderness.org/dark_sky_areas
samurai_science said:bobbranco said:
Gravel trucks will not be travelling the highways when the datacenter is complete. And I don't think 3000 workers is required to operate a datacenter. It's probably no more than 300.
If it's more than 30 I would be surprised
Agreed. Take a look at Quincy, Washington as an example.
The population increase is negligible but the infrastructure increase is substantial.
Take a look at this aerial shot of Quincy:
Deepin theHart80 said:
A couple of reasons you didn't see "dust ups" from previous generations of farmers and ranchers. Previously they were simply trying to eke out a living on their piece of ground. Those farms and ranches were.t some part of their diversified portfolio. It was their sole livelihood. Oil and gas production put money in there pockets like nothing before. So they accepted the damage to keep food on the table. Not the case the case with the next generation. They have a job somewhere and don't need the money near as bad. They want to enjoy the land, not make a living on it.
Also, there was no internet so not everyone knew exactly what was and was not being done every second of every day. They could have raised billy goat hell and you would not have known.
Now these are general statements, and certainly not the case in every situation, but you get the idea.
Nah, this is BS. Windmill proliferation didn't happen in the 1950's and fracking is occurring now, every. single. day. The difference is dollars aren't getting waved under the noses of landowners. That's the bottom line. The same landowners that are squawking about our water and our dark skies sold out to windmills, O&G, timber companies, erect high fences, and dam up creeks. They need to take a look in the mirror and then STFU.
This would include our esteemed Texan Willie Nelson. I'm sure he was all in on save the environment with wind power crap. Data center construction needs to be reviewed, and the facilities themselves need to be better neighbors but some of the loudest voices against them are GD hypocrites.
I Am A Critic said:jja79 said:
Sorry that's been your experience. I've got 2 within a mile of me and no noise, no lights, no traffic and I only know they're there because I hear people complaining but they can't tell me why. Utility prices aren't any different than they were and no issues with water.
I've always wondered what's it's like to be completely incapable of considering that someone else may have a different experience than your own. Can you tell me more?
Pot meet kettle.
Gig'Em and God Bless,
JB'91
JB'91
let's call them for what they really are.
they are surveillance centers.
they are surveillance centers.
Have lived near several. The only thing I noticed over the years is the electrical cost going up substantially.
I know people make a big deal about water, but imo thats just a red herring from the power they take out of the grid while driving costs up for consumers.
I know people make a big deal about water, but imo thats just a red herring from the power they take out of the grid while driving costs up for consumers.
I'd love to do that but I doubt that is going to go far and if it did, dark sky compliance probably wouldn't be able to be made retroactive. Honestly, most of the community just wants to ***** and moan about water, taxes, and power consumption. NONE OF THOSE are valid complaints to me and I think it makes them look like buffoons and no one that matters takes them seriously.
I feel like folks should have simply focused on noise and light pollution and just figured out how to force them to be good neighbors instead of going scorched earth Karen and attacking from the "ban them" podium. That was dumb and a waste of effort.
To be quite frank, part of the 'cause' of this is that 85% of the damn county is ag exempt. So, when a single data center comes in and turns 400 acres tax exempt land into an overnight cash flowing gusher....what the hell do we all expect is going to happen? What county is going to stifle that?
I feel like folks should have simply focused on noise and light pollution and just figured out how to force them to be good neighbors instead of going scorched earth Karen and attacking from the "ban them" podium. That was dumb and a waste of effort.
To be quite frank, part of the 'cause' of this is that 85% of the damn county is ag exempt. So, when a single data center comes in and turns 400 acres tax exempt land into an overnight cash flowing gusher....what the hell do we all expect is going to happen? What county is going to stifle that?
gkaggie08 said:
The 3000 is the construction workers. They will be there 2 years
True. Then that workforce is gone. Enjoy the windfall while you can. Counties do give tax credits. Hope the tax receipts are sufficient.
bobbranco said:gkaggie08 said:
The 3000 is the construction workers. They will be there 2 years
True. Then that workforce is gone. Enjoy the windfall while you can. Counties do give tax credits. Hope the tax receipts are sufficient.
What windfall?
theJonatron said:
let's call them for what they really are.
they are surveillance centers.
Agreed.
Fenrir said:bobbranco said:gkaggie08 said:
The 3000 is the construction workers. They will be there 2 years
True. Then that workforce is gone. Enjoy the windfall while you can. Counties do give tax credits. Hope the tax receipts are sufficient.
What windfall?
3000 workers, even if temporary buy local.
bobbranco said:Fenrir said:bobbranco said:gkaggie08 said:
The 3000 is the construction workers. They will be there 2 years
True. Then that workforce is gone. Enjoy the windfall while you can. Counties do give tax credits. Hope the tax receipts are sufficient.
What windfall?
3000 workers buy local.
A very significant portion of these workers are not local and as a result a significant portion of their money isn't staying local. A temporarily increased population of people buying taquitos from QT and flooding motels doesn't really make a local economy boom. Many locals are suffering from increased costs on an incredibly large number of things but most of them are not seeing the benefit of wages being driven up by data centers hiring people up.
A small subset of local populations are temporarily benefiting from supply/demand being thrown out of whack but that's not particularly helpful to the rest of the population. I've seen several projects just flat out die because of data centers driving costs beyond the ability for locals to afford.
Fenrir said:bobbranco said:Fenrir said:bobbranco said:gkaggie08 said:
The 3000 is the construction workers. They will be there 2 years
True. Then that workforce is gone. Enjoy the windfall while you can. Counties do give tax credits. Hope the tax receipts are sufficient.
What windfall?
3000 workers buy local.
A very significant portion of these workers are not local and as a result a significant portion of their money isn't staying local. A temporarily increased population of people buying taquitos from QT and flooding motels doesn't really make a local economy boom. Many locals are suffering from increased costs on an incredibly large number of things but most of them are not seeing the benefit of wages being driven up by data centers hiring people up.
A small subset of local populations are temporarily benefiting from supply/demand being thrown out of whack but that's not particularly helpful to the rest of the population. I've seen several projects just flat out die because of data centers driving costs beyond the ability for locals to afford.
Plenty of Texas counties hollowed out long ago and continue into a downward spiral. I guess continued stagnation or abandonment is preferred.
bobbranco said:Fenrir said:bobbranco said:Fenrir said:bobbranco said:gkaggie08 said:
The 3000 is the construction workers. They will be there 2 years
True. Then that workforce is gone. Enjoy the windfall while you can. Counties do give tax credits. Hope the tax receipts are sufficient.
What windfall?
3000 workers buy local.
A very significant portion of these workers are not local and as a result a significant portion of their money isn't staying local. A temporarily increased population of people buying taquitos from QT and flooding motels doesn't really make a local economy boom. Many locals are suffering from increased costs on an incredibly large number of things but most of them are not seeing the benefit of wages being driven up by data centers hiring people up.
A small subset of local populations are temporarily benefiting from supply/demand being thrown out of whack but that's not particularly helpful to the rest of the population. I've seen several projects just flat out die because of data centers driving costs beyond the ability for locals to afford.
Plenty of Texas counties hollowed out long ago and continue into a downward spiral. I guess continued stagnation or abandonment is preferred.
Did it really hurt you that much to have someone question your claim about a windfall that you're resorting to non sequitur arguments?
There is an uptick of crime associated with the laborers that are working there. It's not uncommon to see 3 guys cutting a data center fence and hauling off with a gooseneck trailer or throwing materials into a box truck at 2-3am. During early stages on site security doesn't exist and battery powered camera locations are known by the laborers.
Fenrir said:bobbranco said:Fenrir said:bobbranco said:Fenrir said:bobbranco said:gkaggie08 said:
The 3000 is the construction workers. They will be there 2 years
True. Then that workforce is gone. Enjoy the windfall while you can. Counties do give tax credits. Hope the tax receipts are sufficient.
What windfall?
3000 workers buy local.
A very significant portion of these workers are not local and as a result a significant portion of their money isn't staying local. A temporarily increased population of people buying taquitos from QT and flooding motels doesn't really make a local economy boom. Many locals are suffering from increased costs on an incredibly large number of things but most of them are not seeing the benefit of wages being driven up by data centers hiring people up.
A small subset of local populations are temporarily benefiting from supply/demand being thrown out of whack but that's not particularly helpful to the rest of the population. I've seen several projects just flat out die because of data centers driving costs beyond the ability for locals to afford.
Plenty of Texas counties hollowed out long ago and continue into a downward spiral. I guess continued stagnation or abandonment is preferred.
Did it really hurt you that much to have someone question your claim about a windfall that you're resorting to non sequitur arguments?
The data center is a windfall for declining communities. Sorry that hurts you.
Noise and light pollution. The absolute horror. We've gone from landowners barely surviving to eke out a living to bitxhing about light pollution.
Between a soft whisper and less than classroom chatter.
https://cdn.prod.website-files.com/66981385a8d86d512e289614/66a80f736896e7b6adda5f21_2024-07-26%20MARA%20Sound%20Study%20Results%20-%20Absolute%20Noise%20Control.pdf
https://cdn.prod.website-files.com/66981385a8d86d512e289614/66a80f736896e7b6adda5f21_2024-07-26%20MARA%20Sound%20Study%20Results%20-%20Absolute%20Noise%20Control.pdf
I Am A Critic said:jja79 said:
Sorry that's been your experience. I've got 2 within a mile of me and no noise, no lights, no traffic and I only know they're there because I hear people complaining but they can't tell me why. Utility prices aren't any different than they were and no issues with water.
I've always wondered what's it's like to be completely incapable of considering that someone else may have a different experience than your own. Can you tell me more?
I do not understand this response. The first words of the OP are "Sorry that's been your experience." and then he gets blasted for not acknowledging others experiences.
Spoken like a true city slicker who lives on a quarter acre lot
Rural folks who absolutely do not give a crap about urban folks - trying to seek sympathy is utterly hilarious
bobbranco said:
Between a soft whisper and less than classroom chatter.
https://cdn.prod.website-files.com/66981385a8d86d512e289614/66a80f736896e7b6adda5f21_2024-07-26%20MARA%20Sound%20Study%20Results%20-%20Absolute%20Noise%20Control.pdf
This the bullcrap meter. It's what folks use to say its OK and they don't have to do anything because it's within guidelines. Unfortunately, most people using these kinds of 'studies' are quite uneducated on what it means in reality. Nuisance noise, regardless of being in 'guidelines' is still exactly that.
Just to help the uneducated make more sense of the point, a leaf blow running full speed 470' away is under 50db. Now, tell someone that hearing that 24/7/365 that it is "OK".
You have to remember that the yahoos running these studies do so for no other reason than to justify doing nothing.
Jbob04 said:
Spoken like a true city slicker who lives on a quarter acre lot
This is pretty much been what I see when I hear people talking about 'decibels' and 'studies' and 'these aren't a big deal'. You can really tell who has never owned land or lived in the country. They just don't understand and I get that they are largely clueless. It's a tough fight.
BrazosDog02 said:bobbranco said:
Between a soft whisper and less than classroom chatter.
https://cdn.prod.website-files.com/66981385a8d86d512e289614/66a80f736896e7b6adda5f21_2024-07-26%20MARA%20Sound%20Study%20Results%20-%20Absolute%20Noise%20Control.pdf
This the bullcrap meter. It's what folks use to say its OK and they don't have to do anything because it's within guidelines. Unfortunately, most people using these kinds of 'studies' are quite uneducated on what it means in reality. Nuisance noise, regardless of being in 'guidelines' is still exactly that.
Just to help the uneducated make more sense of the point, a leaf blow running full speed 470' away is under 50db. Now, tell someone that hearing that 24/7/365 that it is "OK".
You have to remember that the yahoos running these studies do so for no other reason than to justify doing nothing.
It's also a study on a bitcoin mining facility, not a data center, so the study isn't relevant to this conversation.
And to reply to your other post about who has never owned land, and that we are clueless and don't understand, seems to be the reverse. You are not the guardians of rural America, your gripe is with the land owners who sold, not the person who rightfully purchased the land and can now rightfully build a data center.
I agree it's a tough fight, most is nonsense like people thinking a bitcoin/crypto mining facility is a data center. Or that your dog will get butt cancer from a data center, it's unreal what people believe.
BrazosDog02 said:Jbob04 said:
Spoken like a true city slicker who lives on a quarter acre lot
This is pretty much been what I see when I hear people talking about 'decibels' and 'studies' and 'these aren't a big deal'. You can really tell who has never owned land or lived in the country. They just don't understand and I get that they are largely clueless. It's a tough fight.
Rural America has enjoyed the benefit of massive subsidation programs and tax breaks for the last century and has been steadily decaying for decades.
Maybe it's time you guys just carry some of the load. We city folk can't do everything.
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