Krombopulos Michael said:

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Everyone stay focused.....This is a discussion on whether or not he should seek congressional approval.



It's a simple yes or no.


If you think the American people will support it, it should pass with flying colors.

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"SHOULD" is not relevant , executive over reach and congress being impotent is how things are

He won't ask for authorization it is possible given what has already happened He has already exercised options that would require notification of congress

There is a lot of "we" in the statements about the ongoing bombings in Iran

Slicer97 said:

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NoahAg said:

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The man who wanted us out of endless wars is threatening to start an endless war.

Bad Trump. Potentially, soon to be disastrous Trump.

Single handedly ruining any GOP candidate's chance to win in 2028.

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Explain to me how dropping a couple bunker busters on nuclear facilities is starting an endless war.

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Is that all though? Or does it escalate to regime change, boots on the ground, and forcing democracy on people who don't want it and can't handle it?

Is the problem with Israel finishing Iran off that they would need our most advanced bunker buster, which has never been used in combat, and we're not just going to hand that off to another country and say 'good luck'?

Im Gipper said:

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NoahAg said:

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The man who wanted us out of endless wars is threatening to start an endless war.

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False!

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Ok so he's just going to join an endless war?

I guess it's not a new war so promises made, promises kept, right?

TexAgs91 said:

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Is the problem with Israel finishing Iran off that they would need our most advanced bunker buster, which has never been used in combat, and we're not just going to hand that off to another country and say 'good luck'?

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They don't have an aircraft that can deliver it, even if we gave it to them. At least that is my understanding.

Slicer97 said:

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NoahAg said:

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The man who wanted us out of endless wars is threatening to start an endless war.

Bad Trump. Potentially, soon to be disastrous Trump.

Single handedly ruining any GOP candidate's chance to win in 2028.

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Explain to me how dropping a couple bunker busters on nuclear facilities is starting an endless war.

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I think it is overly optimistic to assume initiating military action against Iran would be limited to a couple of bombs on a couple of facilities.

War is not a play thing. It is dangerous to think you can control it or predict its course.

Old McDonald said:

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given our history in the middle east over the last thirty years, pretty optimistic to think a couple bunker busters would be the end of it

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Valid. But Trump doesn't like getting involved in wars. If we do get involved, I expect it will be in a very limited fashion. Once the nuclear facilities are destroyed, Iran doesn't really have the capability to serious harm to the US beyond domestic terrorist attacks, which they'll carry out regardless of what Trump does.

Russia, China, Japan having nukes doesn't concern me. Iran having nukes does. Because those dumb mothereffers in charge would be willing to use them with no concern of mutually assured destruction.

NoahAg said:

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Is that all though? Or does it escalate to regime change, boots on the ground, and forcing democracy on people who don't want it and can't handle it?

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With Trump, I believe that would be all. We don't need boots on the ground or any nation-building BS. We need Iran and its current regime to not have the ability to develop and deliver nuclear weapons.

Faustus said:

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I'll be shocked if we don't mop up the nuclear sites Israel can't finish off with its current ordinance and delivery systems.

The hemming and hawing is just theater and making it look like we were forced by Iranian intransigence on the diplomatic front.

This was the playbook all along assuming Israel wiped the floor with Iran, which it has.

Regime change would have to come from within given there will be no boots on the ground. So hopefully our engagement will be limited to those strikes on the nuclear facilities.

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This. Anything beyond this and I will be very disappointed. Im used to occasional stupid actions/decisions from Trump...there's always been Good Trump/Bad Trump...but this would be a monumental blunder for me. No wars, no "regime change"...finish off destroying their nuclear capabilities, if we must do anything at all, then GTFO.

The trouble will be that the argument could be made that even if you somehow destroyed (whatever that means - it could be given different definitions) every single nuclear weapons related facility, you would still need a regime change to ensure that work would not resume immediately or indeed to be sure you hadn't missed a facet of the program that had been unknown or overlooked for whatever reason. Not even the Israelis are operating off of perfect information like in a game of chess.

They understand this, which is why their narrative focus has so heavily emphasized the need for regime change. And once that becomes the sort of accepted common sense solution, then we are no longer in the realm of a couple of bombs on a couple of buildings to solve the problem. This is not something to be entered into lightly and it is not an adventure that we should assume should be short in duration. Many wars begin with one or both sides absolutely convinced that it will be short and limited. And it is not because people are dumb, its because before things really take shape, the situation really does seem straightforward. But war is a force of nature like the weather, it is not something that can be controlled once it is set loose.

NoahAg said:

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Slicer97 said:

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NoahAg said:

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The man who wanted us out of endless wars is threatening to start an endless war.

Bad Trump. Potentially, soon to be disastrous Trump.

Single handedly ruining any GOP candidate's chance to win in 2028.

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Explain to me how dropping a couple bunker busters on nuclear facilities is starting an endless war.

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Is that all though? Or does it escalate to regime change, boots on the ground, and forcing democracy on people who don't want it and can't handle it?

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Israel could have taken out the Ayatollah. Trump told them not to. The concern is that if he departs the scene, the military may take over and they might be even worse.

Ideally, the nuclear program is obliterated, the regime loses face, and, over time, a viable alternative to the regime emerges, but there isn't an alternative right now.

Krombopulos Michael said:

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LMCane said:

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thank goodness you started the 14th separate thread on what the USA should do with Iran!

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It's a declaration of war. It's not his choice to make on his own.

Go cheerlead somewhere else unless you can add something constructive......

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It shouldn't be his choice alone, but obviously Congress has been completely hands-off with wars for 80 years. It's one thing at times to argue we're involved in a "police action" or we're "providing material support and training to other combatants" or something as in other conflicts (which is already kind of silly). But to flat-out demand unconditional surrender of another nation without an actual declaration of war is bizarre. Hell, in this case as of now we deny we're even involved at all, but we demand their unconditional surrender. It's like words just don't have any meaning anymore.

Krombopulos Michael said:

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LMCane said:

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NoahAg said:

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The man who wanted us out of endless wars is threatening to start an endless war.

Bad Trump. Potentially, soon to be disastrous Trump.

Single handedly ruining any GOP candidate's chance to win in 2028.

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I just can't take the idiocy anymore.

explain EXACTLY how bombing a mountain in Iran is "starting an endless war"

I don't remember you on here whining about the "endless war" that Trump started when he BOMBED YEMEN FOR THIRTY FOUR STRAIGHT DAYS.

that was literally a month ago!

but let's definitely pretend to be be foreign policy and defense experts because we can shout a bumper sticker!

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China receives 80% of its oil from Iran.

Iran is an integral part of BRICS.

20-25% of the world's oil goes through the Strait on a daily basis.

EVERY regime change the US has tried since Vietnam has failed miserably.

It's not just about Iran vs Israel and 80 year old weapon technology.




This is a discussion that should be had in Congress and made with or without the support of the millions of people in this country, you know, since we claim to be a representative republic....... It's not a military dictatorship run by a handful of men.

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FWIW, the US wasn't trying to implement regime change in Vietnam.

They were trying to PREVENT regime change.

Wish we'd succeeded so those million plus Vietnamese weren't killed by the North Vietnamese…

I'm not holding my breath for Congress to step up and do what they should be doing. I know they won't. We will be dragged into yet another conflict that will be cheered loudly for about two to three months and in the end we will spend trillions only to suffer yet another humiliation. Win the battle, lose the war.


The point of this thread is to simply get people to understand that is supposed to be the people's choice via their elected representatives, not a group of compromised individuals.


Trump is going to do whatever he's told (just like his predecessors) and we will get stuck with the bill.



It doesn't have to be this way......

You're right I should have said we were trying to stop the Vietnamese people from kicking out the regime that the French installed after WW2 so they could keep plundering the natural resources for Europe.

Either way it wasn't our fight to be involved with.

I notice you didn't comment on the other points.......

someone will have to occupy and comb every square inch of a 700,000 square mile country to make sure there wasn't any nuclear weapon or research equipment missed in the campaign. Could take decades of occupation. Will have to train teachers on gender identity and politicians on the mechanics of crony capitalism and "democracy" for the new regime.

Israel is going to have do all that. I don't want us doing it..

I have no idea what Trump will do, but this feels like a feint. Tell 'em when you're going to do something (bomb the crap out of them), then actually do it much sooner.

Get Off My Lawn said:

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SirDippinDots said:

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Trump misplayed this. Wasted time negotiating with the religious wackos is a waste of time. Even if you got an agreement it will not be honored.

Destroy the regime, destroy their nuclear program and go on your way.

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"Wasted time!?" Tomorrow, next week, next month, next year… in war speed is relative. If Iran isn't currently making material strides towards a bomb, Trump needn't strike in haste.

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You can never know that for sure. You don't know if they are for sure. We know for sure they were close or maybe had one or at least components. It's hard to say for certain.

They could certainly load up one of their cluster warheads with radioactive material and have a dirty warhead.

Death to Israel, Death to America. They have been at war with us for years.

AgBQ-00 said:

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If Israel told him they have the means to take out the bunker without the US this is the prudent move. If for whatever reason that should fail then we may have another look at it. Or Iran actually capitulates or their people rise up and oust the current regime.

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There is speculation that the Israelis may be looking at sending in ground troops to go inside the bunkers.

Krombopulos Michael said:

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LMCane said:

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thank goodness you started the 14th separate thread on what the USA should do with Iran!

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It's a declaration of war. It's not his choice to make on his own

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Read your own OP-

According to the War Powers Act, the President can commit troops into hostilities -

… in a national emergency created by an attack on the U.S., its territories, possessions, or armed forces.

I think he's giving Iran the rope to hang themselves with. They so much as touch a hair on any American troop's head or attack any of our military or governmental facilities, the President can unleash hell for up to 60 days with nobody's approval as long as he notifies Congress within 48 hours.

and that hasn't happened yet.

We're not getting dragged into any lasting conflict.

NOBODY involved or even watching wants that. Iran doesn't want it. Israel doesn't want it. No major political group in America wants it. No other nation in the region or world wants it.

If Nobody wants it, it just isn't going to happen. There will be some more bombing and rockets, lots of talking crap, and then Israel will go guns down once they are satisfied the threat is gone and/or Iran will cry uncle and negotiate the dismantling of any remaining nuke assets.

No more war needed. It will be over in weeks at most, maybe only days.

Get a grip and please stop running wild with implausible hyperbolic catastrophe scenarios…..if I keep having to roll my eyes at them they might get stuck like that.

If they drop the hyperbole and get a grip, they will have nothing to post.

"No new wars"="no new taxes "?

oh no said:

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someone will have to occupy and comb every square inch of a 700,000 square mile country to make sure there wasn't any nuclear weapon or research equipment missed in the campaign. Could take decades of occupation. Will have to train teachers on gender identity and politicians on the mechanics of crony capitalism and "democracy" for the new regime.

Israel is going to have do all that. I don't want us doing it..

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This...

The vacuum caused by a regime change has its own risks. Unsecured nuclear material could end up in any number of terrorist organizations and, in turn, a western country in the form of a dirty bomb. There is no simple solution here. If the entire nuclear program isn't dismantled, there are still future problems. If the regime remains in charge, there are still future problems.

Maybe it is naive, but I don't believe Egypt, Turkey, Iraq, or Saudi Arabia want a nuclear armed Iran either..... but what role do those countries play in a regime change in Iran and what would that mean to the West?

Israel just took a shot at the Ayatollah. Perhaps that will make a difference.

Declare it, loan the bombers with bunker busters to Isreal, let them destroy the goat ***ers, return the bombers to us carriers, end declaration.

This dumb idea keeps coming up on this forum. How many Israelis are checked out to fly a B-2 and operate its avionics?

BQ78 said:

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This dumb idea keeps coming up on this forum. How many Israelis are checked out to fly a B-2 and operate its avionics?

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0.

It's like borrowing a cup of sugar from your neighbor.

MouthBQ98 said:

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We're not getting dragged into any lasting conflict.

NOBODY involved or even watching wants that. Iran doesn't want it. Israel doesn't want it. No major political group in America wants it. No other nation in the region or world wants it.

If Nobody wants it, it just isn't going to happen. There will be some more bombing and rockets, lots of talking crap, and then Israel will go guns down once they are satisfied the threat is gone and/or Iran will cry uncle and negotiate the dismantling of any remaining nuke assets.

No more war needed. It will be over in weeks at most, maybe only days.

Get a grip and please stop running wild with implausible hyperbolic catastrophe scenarios…..if I keep having to roll my eyes at them they might get stuck like that.

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I agree nobody wants this war…except for Israel. Netanyahu has been talking about doing regime change in Iran for decades. And if you read the internal Israeli documents A Strategy for Israel in the 1980s' (by Oded Yinon) as well as Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm (Richard Perle), this has been on the docket since at least the 1980s

Ok. So, using my patented Trump Calendar Conversion tool...

If we start with Trump's promise back in 2020 that he will be "laying out his vision for health care" in the "next week or so...

Take into account that he said he would end the Ukraine/Russia war on day 1...

I've calculated that we can expect a decision on Iran by 11/01/2029.

shiftyandquick said:

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aginlakeway said:

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shiftyandquick said:

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Trump already owns this. The initial phase was a joint Israel-US operation with an Israel face. Israel was given the green light to go ahead by Trump and the attacks were done in coordination with US intelligence and assistance.

There's no doubt about this.

We are at this phase because of Trump. He created this situation.

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What would you have done differently?

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For one I would have appointed competent skilled Sec of Defense and National Director of Intelligence. Not two useless buffoons.

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And what would you have had them do? Be specific.

shiftyandquick said:

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Get Off My Lawn said:

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Slicer97 said:

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NoahAg said:

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The man who wanted us out of endless wars is threatening to start an endless war.

Bad Trump. Potentially, soon to be disastrous Trump.

Single handedly ruining any GOP candidate's chance to win in 2028.

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Explain to me how dropping a couple bunker busters on nuclear facilities is starting an endless war.

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Retaliation. Mission creep. Emergent concerns. War hawk politicians & generals.

Consider Vietnam.

Once you take the most definitive step, every subsequent step is easier.

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Iran lobs missiles at US bases. People die. Trump must retaliate. More missiles, bombs, IEDs. Trump must retaliate. Boots on the ground. "Establish control." We've seen this movie before. It's amazing that many people here have no ability to imagine things getting worse.

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Iran has already been lobbing missiles at US bases. In fact, they lobbed them at the base I was on in Iraq in 2020 (under Trump) and in 2021 (under Biden).

TOUCHDOWN! said:

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Ok. So, using my patented Trump Calendar Conversion tool...

If we start with Trump's promise back in 2020 that he will be "laying out his vision for health care" in the "next week or so...

Take into account that he said he would end the Ukraine/Russia war on day 1...

I've calculated that we can expect a decision on Iran by 11/01/2029.

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Ok, pulling out my touchdown calendar conversion tool, you are not very nuanced. You don't get Trump, at all.