shiftyandquick said:

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aginlakeway said:

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shiftyandquick said:

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Trump already owns this. The initial phase was a joint Israel-US operation with an Israel face. Israel was given the green light to go ahead by Trump and the attacks were done in coordination with US intelligence and assistance.

There's no doubt about this.

We are at this phase because of Trump. He created this situation.

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What would you have done differently?

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For one I would have appointed competent skilled Sec of Defense and National Director of Intelligence. Not two useless buffoons.

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OK. Like who?

What else would you have done? What do you think Harris would have done?

Considering the state of the democratic party and all the liberals running amuck these days, I'm fully expecting Hanoi Jane to come out of retirement for the 'peaceful' protests.

Everyone stay focused.....This is a discussion on whether or not he should seek congressional approval.


It's a simple yes or no.


If you think the American people will support it, it should pass with flying colors.

At this point wait for the Nimitz to join the Carl Vision and the Brits.

Empty the damn hangers for all I care and unleash a parade of fighters and bombers, led by the B2s from Whiteman over the Mullahs. Happen it back to the aerial parade over Tokyo harbor when the Japanese signed the surrender.

The Ayatollahs must capitulate

Get Off My Lawn said:

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Slicer97 said:

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NoahAg said:

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The man who wanted us out of endless wars is threatening to start an endless war.

Bad Trump. Potentially, soon to be disastrous Trump.

Single handedly ruining any GOP candidate's chance to win in 2028.

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Explain to me how dropping a couple bunker busters on nuclear facilities is starting an endless war.

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Retaliation. Mission creep. Emergent concerns. War hawk politicians & generals.

Consider Vietnam.

Once you take the most definitive step, every subsequent step is easier.

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Iran lobs missiles at US bases. People die. Trump must retaliate. More missiles, bombs, IEDs. Trump must retaliate. Boots on the ground. "Establish control." We've seen this movie before. It's amazing that many people here have no ability to imagine things getting worse.

Krombopulos Michael said:

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Everyone stay focused.....This is a discussion on whether or not he should seek congressional approval.


It's a simple yes or no.


If you think the American people will support it, it should pass with flying colors.

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If you do not want "endless war" why would you want him to go to Congress? Special military action is, like stated earlier, limited to 60 days.

Good Trump. Apply pressure but hold your fire.

I bet Iran capitulates or Israel finishes the job for us by then.

shiftyandquick said:

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aginlakeway said:

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shiftyandquick said:

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Trump already owns this. The initial phase was a joint Israel-US operation with an Israel face. Israel was given the green light to go ahead by Trump and the attacks were done in coordination with US intelligence and assistance.

There's no doubt about this.

We are at this phase because of Trump. He created this situation.

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What would you have done differently?

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For one I would have appointed competent skilled Sec of Defense and National Director of Intelligence. Not two useless buffoons.

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But, first, you'll vote for a POTATUS…

GeorgiAg said:

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Good Trump. Apply pressure but hold your fire.

I bet Iran capitulates or Israel finishes the job for us by then.

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actually neither will happen, and now Trump has boxed himself in to a deadline, where he will appear very weak if he doesn't act. But as we know.......TACO. "Two weeks" means nothing.

NoahAg said:

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The man who wanted us out of endless wars is threatening to start an endless war.

Bad Trump. Potentially, soon to be disastrous Trump.

Single handedly ruining any GOP candidate's chance to win in 2028.

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I just can't take the idiocy anymore.

explain EXACTLY how bombing a mountain in Iran is "starting an endless war"

I don't remember you on here whining about the "endless war" that Trump started when he BOMBED YEMEN FOR THIRTY FOUR STRAIGHT DAYS.

that was literally a month ago!

but let's definitely pretend to be be foreign policy and defense experts because we can shout a bumper sticker!

Get Off My Lawn said:

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Slicer97 said:

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NoahAg said:

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The man who wanted us out of endless wars is threatening to start an endless war.

Bad Trump. Potentially, soon to be disastrous Trump.

Single handedly ruining any GOP candidate's chance to win in 2028.

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Explain to me how dropping a couple bunker busters on nuclear facilities is starting an endless war.

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Retaliation. Mission creep. Emergent concerns. War hawk politicians & generals.

Consider Vietnam.

Once you take the most definitive step, every subsequent step is easier.

ETA: ever play "just the tip"? That's how.

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No, I've always been an all-or-nothing type of guy.

Trump's distaste for military engagements suggests he's not going to go any further than ending their nuclear capabilities. As far as retaliation, we're talking about a nation that wishes to destroy Israel first and destroy us in Act 2. Let them develop nuclear weapons and hostilities will be unavoidable.

No, Trump doesn't need congressional approval to carry out some targeted strikes if the Israelis aren't capable of completely finishing the job.

he needs congressional approval if he wants to "declare war". He knows that. Everyone knows that.

But going back to Vietnam, Korea, and all the way through to Biden and his Ukraine proxy war, there are a number of blueprints and different ways to frame various action and involvement without a formal declaration of war. What will or should Trump do? .. who knows? Sounds like Trump is giving Israel two weeks to further debilitate them and Iran two weeks to surrender to terms, so perhaps nothing is going to be necessary.

If he needs congressional approval it shouldn't be public.

Why would we telegraph our intentions?

Everyone can know after any act is done, not before.

Kenneth_2003 said:

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Krombopulos Michael said:

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Everyone stay focused.....This is a discussion on whether or not he should seek congressional approval.


It's a simple yes or no.


If you think the American people will support it, it should pass with flying colors.

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If you do not want "endless war" why would you want him to go to Congress? Special military action is, like stated earlier, limited to 60 days.

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If congress wants to dictate action, they can assemble and vote for it tonight. Him SEEKING their approval would be a function of him WANTING to engage in unprovoked* offensive operations while they still waffle. No point unless he's all in & thinks he can push congress past the tipping point. I don't see either as a winning play at the moment.

Happening tonight at the Texas Capitol (not Jane but her cohorts).

shiftyandquick said:

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Get Off My Lawn said:

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Slicer97 said:

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NoahAg said:

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The man who wanted us out of endless wars is threatening to start an endless war.

Bad Trump. Potentially, soon to be disastrous Trump.

Single handedly ruining any GOP candidate's chance to win in 2028.

---

Explain to me how dropping a couple bunker busters on nuclear facilities is starting an endless war.

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Retaliation. Mission creep. Emergent concerns. War hawk politicians & generals.

Consider Vietnam.

Once you take the most definitive step, every subsequent step is easier.

---

Iran lobs missiles at US bases. People die. Trump must retaliate. More missiles, bombs, IEDs. Trump must retaliate. Boots on the ground. "Establish control." We've seen this movie before. It's amazing that many people here have no ability to imagine things getting worse.

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It's amazing to think Iran will sit on nuclear weapons for deterrence like the other nuclear powers do.

Is this really the dems attempt at a gotchya now? He HaS tO dEcLaRe WaR!!!!!!

Trump misplayed this. Wasted time negotiating with the religious wackos is a waste of time. Even if you got an agreement it will not be honored.

Destroy the regime, destroy their nuclear program and go on your way.

Israel can't take out Fordow, realistically, on its own. That would require the bunker busting bombs that can only be dropped from our B-2.

Ideally, Iran would consider it's position, agree to allow the nuclear facilities to be dismantled by someone (probably the IAEA), and that would be that. Whether the regime survives or not would be someone else's business.

If we don't intervene, then regime change is probably the avenue least costly to Israel. How would they go about that? They would destroy Iran's oil industry to cripple them economically, and do things to disrupt the economy so that the citizens are forced to do something. This would not be a great result from Trump's standpoint, as it would cause oil prices to rise, quickly. The other alternatives for Israel are pecking away at Fordow with lighter weapons (unlikely to get the job done) or putting boots on the ground to take it out that way (bloody).

But, if the US were to simply take out Fordow and the other underground facility, then we could feel pretty assured that Iran's nuclear program was set back in a big way (still questions about what they could do with plutonium from their nuclear electrical generation facility). The regime might topple, and it might not. The impact to ordinary Iranians would be minimal, as would the impact on the economy.

NoahAg said:

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The man who wanted us out of endless wars is threatening to start an endless war.

Bad Trump. Potentially, soon to be disastrous Trump.

Single handedly ruining any GOP candidate's chance to win in 2028.

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He hasn't done anything yet .... and that's a good thing.

Why are you sad about it?

Obama should have gone to prison for the **** he did. Him and Hillary for the Libya crap they pulled.

Cougar11 said:

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Its weird that left is pro war now.

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This is a left thing? Lol. Its weird anyone would want Iran with a nuke. Just send them Cash Cougar11

Ag with kids said:

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A declaration of war like when Obama asked and received a declaration of war before he drone striked a US citizen (without due process, mind you)?

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That was wrong. Doesn't mean future presidents get to unilaterally enter wars.

AgBQ-00 said:

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Is this really the dems attempt at a gotchya now? He HaS tO dEcLaRe WaR!!!!!!

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They're in Oppose EVERYTHING mode right now.

Trump could announce he's going to take a **** in 4 hours and the left would demand he get Congressional approval or he needs to be impeached…

seems the left is almost in lock step on being against us getting involved; other than fetterman and maybe shumer.

whats weird is all the so called on conservatives okay with Iran getting nuclear weapons. who would have guessed so many Obama fans on the right.

Yukon Cornelius said:

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Ag with kids said:

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A declaration of war like when Obama asked and received a declaration of war before he drone striked a US citizen (without due process, mind you)?

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That was wrong. Doesn't mean future presidents get to unilaterally enter wars.

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Fine. Houthis have attacked Americans. They are Iran proxies using Iranian weapons to attack. Therefore, Iran has ALREADY attacked the US.

The POTUS is allowed to respond prior to getting a Congressional declaration of war…

LMCane said:

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NoahAg said:

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The man who wanted us out of endless wars is threatening to start an endless war.

Bad Trump. Potentially, soon to be disastrous Trump.

Single handedly ruining any GOP candidate's chance to win in 2028.

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I just can't take the idiocy anymore.

explain EXACTLY how bombing a mountain in Iran is "starting an endless war"

I don't remember you on here whining about the "endless war" that Trump started when he BOMBED YEMEN FOR THIRTY FOUR STRAIGHT DAYS.

that was literally a month ago!

but let's definitely pretend to be be foreign policy and defense experts because we can shout a bumper sticker!

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China receives 80% of its oil from Iran.

Iran is an integral part of BRICS.

20-25% of the world's oil goes through the Strait on a daily basis.

EVERY regime change the US has tried since Vietnam has failed miserably.

It's not just about Iran vs Israel and 80 year old weapon technology.




This is a discussion that should be had in Congress and made with or without the support of the millions of people in this country, you know, since we claim to be a representative republic....... It's not a military dictatorship run by a handful of men.

It should be public.

We have been lied to about

Iraq WMDs
The surge
Withdrawal from Afghanistan
Spying on Trump
Pee pee tapes
Covid Origins
Covid threats
Vaccine efficacy
Hunter Biden laptop
Illegal immigration numbers
White supremacy being biggest threat
Ukraine war

Ok so Trust me Bro 2.0 for another ME?

Hard pass.

Yukon Cornelius said:

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Ag with kids said:

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A declaration of war like when Obama asked and received a declaration of war before he drone striked a US citizen (without due process, mind you)?

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obama had authorization from congress to fight terrorism. a declartion of war was not needed.

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al-awaki received all the process he was due.

droning terrorists may have been the only thing obama was worth a damn at.

Quote:

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That was wrong. Doesn't mean future presidents get to unilaterally enter wars.

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he is commander in chief. if congress does not like what he is doing, they have ways to stop or let that be known.

SirDippinDots said:

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Trump misplayed this. Wasted time negotiating with the religious wackos is a waste of time. Even if you got an agreement it will not be honored.

Destroy the regime, destroy their nuclear program and go on your way.

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"Wasted time!?" Tomorrow, next week, next month, next year… in war speed is relative. If Iran isn't currently making material strides towards a bomb, Trump needn't strike in haste.

Quote:

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al-awaki received all the process he was due.

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Yeah but his son who was an American citizen riding in the car with him didn't.......

Slicer97 said:

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NoahAg said:

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The man who wanted us out of endless wars is threatening to start an endless war.

Bad Trump. Potentially, soon to be disastrous Trump.

Single handedly ruining any GOP candidate's chance to win in 2028.

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Explain to me how dropping a couple bunker busters on nuclear facilities is starting an endless war.

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given our history in the middle east over the last thirty years, pretty optimistic to think a couple bunker busters would be the end of it

"How long would it take to train an Israeli pilot to fly a B2 on a simple single drop mission profile?"
"Maybe 10 days if the rest of the crew was American "observers/advisers""
Hmmmm…

twk said:

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Israel can't take out Fordow, realistically, on its own. That would require the bunker busting bombs that can only be dropped from our B-2.

Ideally, Iran would consider it's position, agree to allow the nuclear facilities to be dismantled by someone (probably the IAEA), and that would be that. Whether the regime survives or not would be someone else's business.

If we don't intervene, then regime change is probably the avenue least costly to Israel. How would they go about that? They would destroy Iran's oil industry to cripple them economically, and do things to disrupt the economy so that the citizens are forced to do something. This would not be a great result from Trump's standpoint, as it would cause oil prices to rise, quickly. The other alternatives for Israel are pecking away at Fordow with lighter weapons (unlikely to get the job done) or putting boots on the ground to take it out that way (bloody).

But, if the US were to simply take out Fordow and the other underground facility, then we could feel pretty assured that Iran's nuclear program was set back in a big way (still questions about what they could do with plutonium from their nuclear electrical generation facility). The regime might topple, and it might not. The impact to ordinary Iranians would be minimal, as would the impact on the economy.

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B-1's can drop them too, they're just not trained to use the mop specifically.

I would love to use a B1 going super sonic so the mulahs can hear it coming and going. My neighbor is a B1 pilot at Dyess and he loves to buzz the neighborhood. Love that plane.

MouthBQ98 said:

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"How long would it take to train an Israeli pilot to fly a B2 on a simple single drop mission profile?"
"Maybe 10 days if the rest of the crew was American "observers/advisers""
Hmmmm…

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We'll never sell or lend heavy bombers to other country's. This includes b1's, b2's, b21's, and b52's. But i get your drift.