TexasAggie_97 said:

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5Amp said:

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The only drama in this case is how long will the jury take and how many decades will he be locked away from the rest of us…little coward.

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I heard lifetime without the possibility of parole on the news.

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Send him to Idaho where he can room with the guy that killed those college students with a knife.

See who wins that one.

MsDoubleD81 said:

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They're being sequestered after starting deliberations.

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Ah gotcha.

One Louder said:

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Can we just wrap this up so Netflix can get their documentary out?

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I thought this comment really spoke to me. Then I saw it was you, and of course it did!! lol. Same mind.

Got a Natty! said:

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LeonardSkinner said:

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As if a documentary would be anything more than a money grab by the KA family.

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In TX there is a law that prevents defendants and their families from benefiting from their crimes. That law was specifically aimed at made for TV movies and books.

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Yes, but if it went towards "legal expenses," they wouldn't really be "benefiting," would they?

I think it applies to families. And I think that was the legislative intent

MsDoubleD81 said:

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They're being sequestered after starting deliberations.

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If true, makes sense to put a lid on it today. Jury needs to come back tomorrow packed ready to be sequestered.

Martin Cash said:

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aggiehawg said:

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TheRatt87 said:

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Ms. Hawg,
For first degree murder in the State of Texas, is the sentence decided by the judge or the jury?
If that is selected by the defendant, when does the defendant make that selection? Pre-trial? Post-verdict?

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Judge, with guidance from the state Sentencing Commission's guidelines. It is up to the judge to consider any mitigating or aggravating circumstances when pronouncing sentence.

Mitigating factor would be his age. Aggravating factor would be the provocation while secretly armed with the knife.

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Hawg? Not necessarily/ It's the defendant's choice. He can elect to have the jury OR the judge assess the punishment. Choice has to be made before voir dire begins.

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Thank you both for your insights. You would think that KA's attorneys would advise him to choose sentencing by jury, given what seems to be the no nonsense reputation of this judge.

Wife texted me saying that the reason the defense rested, lawyer is probably a Mexico fan wanted to make sure he could watch the Mexico/ South Africa game on Thursday.

I laughed way to hard at that text.

Got a Natty! said:

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I think it applies to families. And I think that was the legislative intent

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I'm going off of memory, so admittedly, really don't know the ins and outs of this. Do you recall the statute?

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Thank you both for your insights. You would think that KA's attorneys would advise him to choose sentencing by jury, given what seems to be the no nonsense reputation of this judge.

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I have heard he's a no nonsense judge who runs a tight ship in his courtroom but isn't he also known as a fair judge?

I'm guessing a plea was offered by the defense and the prosecution countered? Anthony family said no and are willing to take their chance with a jury? If you take a plea, you can't appeal?

Im Gipper said:

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Got a Natty! said:

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I think it applies to families. And I think that was the legislative intent

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I'm going off of memory, so admittedly, really don't know the ins and outs of this. Do you recall the statute?

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Son of Sam laws only apply to convicted felons. KA is not convicted. His family better get that meme coin out tonight.

I was wondering the same thing about appeal. If that can't appeal there goes their next payday.

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If you take a plea, you can't appeal?

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Correct. Standard term as part of plea deals.

Another reason you should take a jury for sentencing is because there's a better chance for a lower sentence since they may "compromise" (technically now allowed) to agree to a slightly lower sentence so they can go home earlier.

Thank you for the answer Hawg. Some us aren't lawyers and damn sure aren't criminals and have no idea how this works.

aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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Thank you both for your insights. You would think that KA's attorneys would advise him to choose sentencing by jury, given what seems to be the no nonsense reputation of this judge.

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I have heard he's a no nonsense judge who runs a tight ship in his courtroom but isn't he also known as a fair judge?

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I think he's fair, but that's based on limited experience with him. I would take him as a judge in any of my cases as I don't try to pull crap and I'm sure he'd keep the other side from actually doing the same.

With that said, if I were the defense, I'd probably go the route of jury sentencing. Roach would hang 40 on this and I think the jury will be persuaded by one or more of their members to go lesser. The defense team may or may not agree, and they have far more information at their disposal to make that decision than I do.

That could backfire though, but you also have the chance to appeal?

usmcbrooks said:

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That could backfire though, but you also have the chance to appeal?

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Anything can "backfire".


You can appeal both judge and jury sentencing.

usmcbrooks said:

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I'm guessing a plea was offered by the defense and the prosecution countered? Anthony family said no and are willing to take their chance with a jury? If you take a plea, you can't appeal?

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Possibly but not necessarily. As Hawg said, they could have been spending their time over lunch hashing out jury instructions and time necessary for closing. That, and the afternoon/next day schedule.

IF a plea was discussed, your scenario is very possible -- or there was no counter by the prosecution.

usmcbrooks said:

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That could backfire though, but you also have the chance to appeal?

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Based on the reporting of the trial, which is obviously incomplete in terms of the record, I can't come close to finding any potential appellate issues. It would have to be something procedural or something based on pre-trial motions that got ruled on months ago rather than something that occurred in trial. The witnesses presented by the prosecution were fact witnesses and didn't seem to stray very far from stating what happened. To the extent they made some statements that were hearsay, that was probably objected to and ruled upon. Highly doubtful that either an incorrect ruling in that area or a motion for mistrial based on jury being compromised by hearing a witness state inadmissible evidence (if such a motion was made) is going to be grounds to overturn a jury verdict.

At that point, they'd have to screw up the charge, have juror misconduct, or there be a sentencing issue.

The typical criminal appellate lawyer has a far worse record than the Washington Generals (the team that traveled with the Globetrotters). Even the good ones.

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Based on the reporting of the trial, which is obviously incomplete in terms of the record, I can't come close to finding any potential appellate issues.

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So in some cases, you cannot appeal when sentenced by Judge or Jury?

Random question: What does a public defender get paid? I'm assuming he bills the county an hourly rate? Do all public defenders just get the same flat rate?

I ask because Toby Shook is a pretty high power attorney - not sure why he took this dog of a case for PD money.

usmcbrooks said:

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Based on the reporting of the trial, which is obviously incomplete in terms of the record, I can't come close to finding any potential appellate issues.

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So in some cases, you cannot appeal when sentenced by Judge or Jury?

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You can appeal both. The success of the appeal is tge question.

fc2112 said:

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Random question: What does a public defender get paid? I'm assuming he bills the county an hourly rate? Do all public defenders just get the same flat rate?

I ask because Toby Shook is a pretty high power attorney - not sure why he took this dog of a case for PD money.

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Per google

Public defenders earn an average annual salary ranging from $85,330 to $102,691 in Texas. Nationwide, salaries generally fall between $77,000 and $93,000 for standard trial attorneys, but compensation heavily depends on experience, location, and the specific government entity.

Public defenders are typically government employees paid a set, annual salary rather than billing hourly. The pay scale varies depending on the tier of government and region:

Not a bad paycheck.

91AggieLawyer said:

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usmcbrooks said:

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I'm guessing a plea was offered by the defense and the prosecution countered? Anthony family said no and are willing to take their chance with a jury? If you take a plea, you can't appeal?

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Possibly but not necessarily. As Hawg said, they could have been spending their time over lunch hashing out jury instructions and time necessary for closing. That, and the afternoon/next day schedule.

IF a plea was discussed, your scenario is very possible -- or there was no counter by the prosecution.

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Yeah. If they were even close to a plea deal, the judge would hold the jury, so if it resolved, he could then dismiss them. Although I am not suggesting this was the case here but the judge would also have to go along and approve any deal that had been struck.

So let's look at closings. State ended up calling about 21 witnesses. Defense called 6. And not much of what those defense witnesses testified can be effectively used as persuasive argument of this killing being justified. So what the hell are they going to say? I can't imagine what I would say based upon what I have seen reported.

Defense counsel will have to bring their tap shoes tomorrow.

usmcbrooks said:

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Based on the reporting of the trial, which is obviously incomplete in terms of the record, I can't come close to finding any potential appellate issues.

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So in some cases, you cannot appeal when sentenced by Judge or Jury?

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IANAL but my understanding is that you can appeal as long as you have money, but you have to appeal based on specific things in the trial.

Did Shook actually propose a theory that Metcalf accidentally impaled himself on the knife? I have seen that stated on X but not sure about the accuracy with no cameras in the courtroom for verification.

Why do people keep assuming Shook is getting paid as a public defender?

Im Gipper said:

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Why do people keep assuming Shook is getting paid as a public defender?

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Because lawyers don't so anything out of the goodness of their hearts without a little green.

bonfarr said:

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Did Shook actually propose a theory that Metcalf accidentally impaled himself on the knife? I have seen that stated on X but not sure about the accuracy with no cameras in the courtroom for verification.

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I posted this on the 6th:

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Does anybody know if this really happened?


"So today the defense has argued that Austin impaled himself on the blade.

I wish I was kidding but...no.

1 in 1000 chance Austin fell on the blade!
Wirskye showed Ventura a replica blade of the one used in the stabbing, and asked if that knife was capable of making the wound on Austin. Ventura said it was. She said the official cause of death was ruled as homicide.

On cross-examination, Ventura explained that the penetration depth of the knife was about 2.5 inches. The total length of the knife was about 3.5 inches.

The defense briefly questioned Ventura about whether it was possible for Austin to have impaled himself on Karmelo's knife when he pushed Karmelo.

On redirect, Ventura explained that this impaling scenario is one in a thousand, and that because the depth of the wound is shorter than its length, it is unlikely."

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Which should tell you his payment is not from public defender money!

My guess is the defense will muddy the waters to try to make it about him having a right to be there. It is not really relevant but it's something that they may do to get the jury distracted.

There's no doubt they will be painting Metcalf as the initial aggressor and will argue Anthony was scared for his life. I just don't see the facts lining up with that argument but they will try. That's all they have.

Im Gipper said:

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Which should tell you his payment is not from public defender money!

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Public defenders earn an average annual salary ranging from $85,330 to $102,691 in Texas

This is from google, so take it for what's it worth.

fc2112 said:

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Random question: What does a public defender get paid? I'm assuming he bills the county an hourly rate? Do all public defenders just get the same flat rate?

I ask because Toby Shook is a pretty high power attorney - not sure why he took this dog of a case for PD money.

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Not necessarily. Most counties have a schedule to assess fees. It's based on time. Different rate for preparation hours and actual trial hours. For murder it bumps up a little. I have no idea what happened in this case, but often, in a high profile case, a judge will ask a high profile attorney to take the case and promise to pay him accordingly. The county has to pay whatever the judge awards in terms of attorney fees.