Old McDonald said:

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the way trump has handled ukraine so far is roosevelt urging churchill to sue hitler for peace on any terms, and demanding england's coal reserves in return. shameful.

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Whats your hypothetical plan to end the war? Generally curious what you would do if you were president right now.

AggiePops said:

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mwm said:

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I want to know how much money, out of the billions given to Ukraine, is coming back into the Biden Family Syndicate.

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Same amount you're getting.

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Doubtful. They already ripped off the American people. The bidens are flush chilling on their stacks of cash eating ice cream and smoking crack.

Before Zelenskyy got owned by Trump and Vance, he met with major warmongers in the US Government.

Everyone in this room should be primaried or fired.

They’re what’s wrong with America.pic.twitter.com/jGaYzpWrz2

— Paul A. Szypula 🇺🇸 (@Bubblebathgirl) February 28, 2025

Infection_Ag11 said:

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My only complaint is this shouldn't happen in front of the cameras. This kind of heated exchange has been common forever among leaders of nations, but it needs to happen behind closed doors.

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I dunno. If we are clamoring for transparency, you got it today in spades.

If this had happened behind closed doors it would be spun into whatever the current version of Eric Ciaramella and Alexander Vindman could dream up and whisper to Hakeem Jeffries.

This way we can all see exactly what was said, the context, tone, verbal cues and real-time reactions.

Decorum is for the elitists looking to hide how sausage is made.

FIDO_Ags said:

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FireAg, your taxes are funding a new munitions plant in Mesquite Tx. All Ukraine received was old shells that were paid for and going to go to an Army SPENDEX anyway.

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What about the billions of dollars of funds that went to Ukraine? Was that not from our tax dollars?

That's exactly what happened and our military is getting better munitions because of it.

And no, not all munitions are created equal.

Show me your dollars instead of equipment and I'll bite. Others trolling with no facts.

I have a genuine question for Teslag and the other defenders of Zelenskyy here. (staff, this is for discussion and not an attack i swear)

what makes you guys draw the conclusion that if someone like me is against Zelenskyy and the continued funding of the Ukraine fiasco the. we are pro Russian.

I've seen it several times on here from several posters claim that "maga" is "pro Putin/Russia" but i'd like to know the reasoning behind that

Mods, thanks for reopening the thread. It is good to see both sides of the debate make their points. I can completely sympathize with the difficulty of managing people who are unable to keep things civil.

I agree with Kisin tweet above. It is much different when you watch the whole 45 min press conference versus the last 5 minutes when it went sideways. It was interesting to watch Trump in action trying to keep things centered, trying to work the deal. I really sensed he was attempting to avoid saying anything inflammatory until the very end when he had had enough. JD, who I really respect, went after Zelensky a little harder than I think necessary. Zelensky did thank the US at the beginning multiple times so JD was in the wrong on that point. However, Zelensky deserved the push back when he seemed to confront Vance; That was an unforced error. It was telling that Trump was the coolest head in the room until was forced to defend American interests, and rightfully so.

The thing that sucks is that nobody wins. There is no good solution. As Thomas Sowell famously said, there are only trade offs. Zelensky rightly pointed out that you can't trust Russia. Nonetheless, the continued slaughter of thousands each week isn't sustainable. They are going to have to give up something and hope for the best. I really hope they can wrap this up since I have boys that will be military age in the coming 1-4 years.

Who?mikejones! said:

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Old McDonald said:

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the way trump has handled ukraine so far is roosevelt urging churchill to sue hitler for peace on any terms, and demanding england's coal reserves in return. shameful.

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Whats your hypothetical plan to end the war? Generally curious what you would do if you were president right now.

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It's not our war to end. If we want to stop funding it that's fine. But this is the Ukrainian's war. It's their call on when they surrender or bleed Russia to a truce.

TresPuertas said:

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I have a genuine question for Teslag and the other defenders of Zelenskyy here. (staff, this is for discussion and not an attack i swear)

what makes you guys draw the conclusion that if someone like me is against Zelenskyy and the continued funding of the Ukraine fiasco the. we are pro Russian.

I've seen it several times on here from several posters claim that "maga" is "pro Putin/Russia" but i'd like to know the reasoning behind that

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You aren't pro Russia if you're simply against our tax dollars being sent to Ukraine.

Old McDonald said:

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the way trump has handled ukraine so far is roosevelt urging churchill to sue hitler for peace on any terms, and demanding england's coal reserves in return. shameful.

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You mean like how Churchill's predecessor wanted peace with Hitler?

Biden was Neville Chamberlain but worse. Trump is Churchill but better, and way more sober.

Teslag said:

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Who?mikejones! said:

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Old McDonald said:

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the way trump has handled ukraine so far is roosevelt urging churchill to sue hitler for peace on any terms, and demanding england's coal reserves in return. shameful.

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Whats your hypothetical plan to end the war? Generally curious what you would do if you were president right now.

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It's not our war to end. If we want to stop funding it that's fine. But this is the Ukrainian's war. It's their call on when they surrender or bleed Russia to a truce.

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I tend to agree. But, I was asking someone who wants the usa to continue its support. That's the hypothetical id like to explore.

Lathspell said:

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I think too many people haven't actually watched the entire unedited press conference. If you do, you will see Zelinsky start grandstanding and then Trump and Vance just shutting that down due to the disrespect.

He acted like a child and Trump started to treat him like one. Hell, I would have done the same thing. He will eventually come back on his knees, begging for Trump to help. This will all resolve exactly how we want it from an American standpoint.

Also, I am one who does not think we should be sending a single dollar to Ukraine. I support the Ukrainians' desire to defend their country, but it doesn't mean we need to get involved. As Trump said, at a certain point, you are either just fighting to the last man, you completely surrender, or you agree to terms you won't 100% love. One of those is the best option. It's that simple.

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Exactly.

[Your last two posts make it very clear you're only here to troll, so take a few days off -- Staff]

Lathspell said:

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I think too many people haven't actually watched the entire unedited press conference. If you do, you will see Zelinsky start grandstanding and then Trump and Vance just shutting that down due to the disrespect.

He acted like a child and Trump started to treat him like one. Hell, I would have done the same thing. He will eventually come back on his knees, begging for Trump to help. This will all resolve exactly how we want it from an American standpoint.

Also, I am one who does not think we should be sending a single dollar to Ukraine. I support the Ukrainians' desire to defend their country, but it doesn't mean we need to get involved. As Trump said, at a certain point, you are either just fighting to the last man, you completely surrender, or you agree to terms you won't 100% love. One of those is the best option. It's that simple.

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I hope he decides to fight to the last man. Serves those right that support that psycho.

TresPuertas said:

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I have a genuine question for Teslag and the other defenders of Zelenskyy here. (staff, this is for discussion and not an attack i swear)

what makes you guys draw the conclusion that if someone like me is against Zelenskyy and the continued funding of the Ukraine fiasco the. we are pro Russian.

I've seen it several times on here from several posters claim that "maga" is "pro Putin/Russia" but i'd like to know the reasoning behind that

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FIDO_Ags said:

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That's exactly what happened and our military is getting better munitions because of it.

And no, not all munitions are created equal.

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Correct, we are getting newer, replenished toys. But the old stuff is not WORTHLESS and Ukraine should pay us back (and for the transportation costs, handling costs, training, etc).

As I have mentioned before, counting the weapons and such sent to Ukraine at book value ignores the fact that the agreement sold to congress critters and America was that we going to spend $X dollars to replace $Y in old stuff.

But the only number reported is the $Y whilst the $X replacement cost is hidden from Americans or simply not properly reported. Likely a big driver of Trump's "inflated" number some have issue with.

Teslag said:

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TresPuertas said:

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I have a genuine question for Teslag and the other defenders of Zelenskyy here. (staff, this is for discussion and not an attack i swear)

what makes you guys draw the conclusion that if someone like me is against Zelenskyy and the continued funding of the Ukraine fiasco the. we are pro Russian.

I've seen it several times on here from several posters claim that "maga" is "pro Putin/Russia" but i'd like to know the reasoning behind that

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You aren't pro Russia if you're simply against our tax dollars being sent to Ukraine.

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My simple hatred of Russia is that I spent all of my younger years in the Cold War fearing Russia. Its very odd that some are supporting Russia here. Especially Consevatives. I get Zelensky is a grifter because I see it. I also see Trump making Russia the victim out of this conflict which is Horsecrap. Russia starred the war. Russia will never be defeated also. Thats common sense.

LMCane said:

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rootube said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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Quote:

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He's a hero because when the entire western world was making plans to give Ukraine to Russia and was negotiating his exile. He held his country together

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I hope he's searching real estate brochures for where he's going to spend his exile now.

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Maybe. The last time the experts planned his exile he proceeded to whip Russia's a**. My guess is we have galvanized all of Ukraine and Europe against the United States and Russia and they are probably going to finish the job which is fine but we have given up soft power in Europe. Something we have dominated since the end of WWII.

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Leftists pretending to be military strategists is the most hilarious thing to watch..

oh really?!

so it has been LITERALLY three years of Ukraine at war with Russia and every day for the last six months the Russians gain more Uke territory.

that is WITH $178 Billion in US military aid and thousands of our weapons.

but this genius thinks "now Europe and Ukraine are going to finish the job without the USA"

so Ukraine hasn't been able to push back the Russians WITH American aid, but will suddenly be able to win the war WITHOUT American aid?!?!?

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I'm not certain Ukraine will win without our help at all. I think we may have inadvertently convinced Europe to support Ukraine. Is that enough, will they actually follow through? Who knows.

You suggesting that Russia is somehow winning this war is kind of funny. Russia is stuck between a meat grinder and a failing economy. Militarily they have embarrassed themselves and Ukraine has done some pretty phenomenal things making do with less.

The Fall Guy said:

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Teslag said:

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TresPuertas said:

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I have a genuine question for Teslag and the other defenders of Zelenskyy here. (staff, this is for discussion and not an attack i swear)

what makes you guys draw the conclusion that if someone like me is against Zelenskyy and the continued funding of the Ukraine fiasco the. we are pro Russian.

I've seen it several times on here from several posters claim that "maga" is "pro Putin/Russia" but i'd like to know the reasoning behind that

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You aren't pro Russia if you're simply against our tax dollars being sent to Ukraine.

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My simple hatred of Russia is that I spent all of my younger years in the Cold War fearing Russia. Its very odd that some are supporting Russia here. Especially Consevatives. I get Zelensky is a grifter because I see it. I also see Trump making Russia the victim out of this conflict which is Horsecrap. Russia starred the war. Russia will never be defeated also. Thats common sense.

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i've read every post on this thread and have not seen a single pro-russia or pro putin post from a trump supporter. if i'm wrong please let me know. that's what im trying to to get at here. what am i missing?

I get the Cold War era lingering hatred for the Russians of yore. But reality is that we were presented with a very one-sided view of the Soviets and their intentions, capabilities and such whilst glossing over any mistakes, errors or bad things we may have done.

Let's not make bad decisions today due to bad decisions made yesterday.

TresPuertas said:

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I have a genuine question for Teslag and the other defenders of Zelenskyy here. (staff, this is for discussion and not an attack i swear)

what makes you guys draw the conclusion that if someone like me is against Zelenskyy and the continued funding of the Ukraine fiasco the. we are pro Russian.

I've seen it several times on here from several posters claim that "maga" is "pro Putin/Russia" but i'd like to know the reasoning behind that

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The problem with these big forums is that there posters from every aspect of the argument spectrum and when you are conversing with one or several over the course of weeks, months, or every years, you develop an established relationship with them. However, when debating them, others then hop in the middle and either knowingly or unknowingly, aligns themselves with them in an already established conversation. And then take on their debate as their own, even though they do not have that history or context of everything that came before. You can have someone like samurai_science who regularly trolls with wishing Russia to win and call them Pro Putin and then have someone jump in "Just because I agree with a stance of theirs, does that make me Pro Putin too?!"

At least in some cases I have seen.

Didn't like the show today for two reasons. It's unpleasant to see the presidents of two countries snapping at one another in front of the cameras. #2 the Epstein docs (a promise made) that came to nothing yesterday, are completely forgotten in today's ****-show. don't know if that's by design.

That said, Trump is trying to stop a war that started under Biden's watch, in a way that is advantageous to the USA. good.

MaroonStain said:

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Old McDonald said:

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the way trump has handled ukraine so far is roosevelt urging churchill to sue hitler for peace on any terms, and demanding england's coal reserves in return. shameful.

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How did Churchill fare at the actual stay with FDR in the White House? The one where terms were set for England to receive increased aid from US.

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leftist marxists too ignorant to know that Roosevelt forced Churchill to turn over Greenland and the Azores in exchange for 50 old WWI destroyers in 1941

some of these dummies should watch "Darkest Hour" where Churchill is pleading for planes and democrat hero Roosevelt says the British would have to drag the planes across the Canadian border with ropes

Teslag said:

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Agreed. We were able to see Trump, on camera, bend over backwards to defend Russia and in doing so justifiably piss off the president of the country they are invading. It was cordial until that moment.

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Nope. Not at all.

You obviously have never read the 400 page thread on this board entitled "tactical aspects of Ukraine War"

because everything you have stated is factually incorrect.

Firm knowledge of history is required when venturing into political discussions, particularly conflicts between nations past, present and future.

The Fall Guy said:

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Teslag said:

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TresPuertas said:

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I have a genuine question for Teslag and the other defenders of Zelenskyy here. (staff, this is for discussion and not an attack i swear)

what makes you guys draw the conclusion that if someone like me is against Zelenskyy and the continued funding of the Ukraine fiasco the. we are pro Russian.

I've seen it several times on here from several posters claim that "maga" is "pro Putin/Russia" but i'd like to know the reasoning behind that

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You aren't pro Russia if you're simply against our tax dollars being sent to Ukraine.

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My simple hatred of Russia is that I spent all of my younger years in the Cold War fearing Russia. Its very odd that some are supporting Russia here. Especially Consevatives. I get Zelensky is a grifter because I see it. I also see Trump making Russia the victim out of this conflict which is Horsecrap. Russia starred the war. Russia will never be defeated also. Thats common sense.

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Historically Russia has been defeated many times. The Soviet Union fell apart on its own and they were a thousand times the military that current day Russia is.

Russia tried to take Ukraine and were pushed back to the edge of the country. Ukraine now controls a part of Russia. The Russian navy has been pushed out of the Black Sea by a country with no navy at all. They do not have air superiority despite having overwhelming aircraft numerical superiority, and their army are being slaughtered in meat wave attacks. They have been forced to use WWII era equipment and donkeys to deliver arms to troops. In the beginning of the war they relied on mercenary groups that eventually initiated a failed coup that their corrupt government had to put down. Russia has been forced to rely on North Korea and Iran to help with arms and soldiers. Somehow despite all this they still seem to peddle the narrative that they are winning. It's quite impressive.

this is kind of my point, I run around a lot of conservative. People, talk to them about politics all the time, read about every conservative post on the Internet, listen to every conservative show I can, and not once, not a single damn time, have I heard anybody say they are pro Putin or pro Russia. I don't even think I've seen it on here.

It's either a media talking point or a preconceived notion that all liberals have that if you're against Ukraine, you're pro Russia, which just isn't the case for any us.

This is a complex matter and within those complexities, there's room to understand that you can hate both, which I do

Yep. FDR was no hero. If his hand hadn't been forced then half the world (at least) would be speaking German and Jews would only exist in history books. But then again, most of America didn't want get involved, and a lot of Americans disagreed with providing aid of any kind.

The japs made the cardinal mistake of ****ing with our boats. You don't **** with our boats.

backintexas2013 said:

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Old McDonald said:

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the way trump has handled ukraine so far is roosevelt urging churchill to sue hitler for peace on any terms, and demanding england's coal reserves in return. shameful.

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You have no plan other than Trump bad give Ukraine money. That's shameful

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and trump has no plan other than give putin what he wants and hope he doesn't do it again. unamerican and cowardly.