The house will pass. Looks like more Dems will vote for than Rs.

Red Fishing Ag93 said:

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aezmvp said:

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Take the wins. Shutting everything down doesn't actually do anything. It all gets back paid with extra. Momentum is a thing and Trump has it. The GOP shouldn't have done the omnibus and that was a big win shutting that down. I get Roy's point and I understand why he's doing what he's doing but at a certain point it becomes counterproductive. We've reached that point.

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Disagree.

The momentum is right now, mostly with what Elon is doing.

Trump is not yet to be trusted on fiscal conservatism.

We need Congress.

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Exactly and those who think shutting it down doesn't mean anything because the salaries all get paid back is not the point. The point is the American people are done with these games.

I also think shutting it down will be a nice transition for DOGE. It will show the public how little the government REALLY does and how much waste can be cut not only in personnel but in regulations.

That 1,500 page monstrosity is a perfect encapsulation of what's wrong with how our government runs. Imagine the useless staffers that our tax dollars funded to create this albatross. Think of all the tax dollars wasted on the creation of ridiculous regulations that only inhibit growth.

Shut it down...we don't even have a functioning POTUS so it's fitting.

Dan Scott said:

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The house will pass. Looks like more Dems will vote for than Rs.

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Which sadly speaks volumes. If the Dems want it you can take it to the bank it's bad for America.

Prosperdick said:

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Dan Scott said:

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The house will pass. Looks like more Dems will vote for than Rs.

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Which sadly speaks volumes. If the Dems want it you can take it to the bank it's bad for America.

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Hey. Congrats on getting a worse bill passed. At least killing the better one gives you the moral high ground.

Philip J Fry said:

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Hey. Congrats on getting a worse bill passed. At least killing the better one gives you the moral high ground.

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Sounds like it's an slightly... very slightly... better bill if it doesn't raise the debt ceiling.

What we need is speaker who will call out that lying POS Jefferies to his face for standing up and outright lying about cutting SS and Medicare because it's a complete lie. Screw decorum call that radical Muslim POS out for who he is.

So much for immediate tax cuts and addressing illegal immigration on day 1…

FireAg said:

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So much for immediate tax cuts and addressing illegal immigration on day 1…

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Yep. DJT has a backup plan but it's messy and will get tied up in court.


Biden is MIA and the clown car is running the country right now.

FireAg said:

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So much for immediate tax cuts and addressing illegal immigration on day 1…

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No, because we are a month away from Day 1 still. 12/20 to 1/20.

This is still an ALL Biden executive and a half Bidenite Congress.

This is why the lame duck period needs to be abolished. If a Constitutional Convention ever gets going just do that as an easy afterthought.

aezmvp said:

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Take the wins. Shutting everything down doesn't actually do anything. It all gets back paid with extra. Momentum is a thing and Trump has it. The GOP shouldn't have done the omnibus and that was a big win shutting that down. I get Roy's point and I understand why he's doing what he's doing but at a certain point it becomes counterproductive. We've reached that point.

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It slows down the changes Trump wants to make. So, it doesn't do nothing. This is why some (R)'s with massive TDS are voting with Democrats.

PA24 said:

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Ag87H2O said:

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PA24 said:

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aTmAg said:

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PA24 said:

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aTmAg said:

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PA24 said:

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Chip is grand standing.

No sense of awareness and will cost his district

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Dude won his district by 26 freaking points. He has no need to grandstand and will never lose his district as long as he feels like running.

He is one of the few guys in congress taking a principled stand. The fact that you fools oppose him shows why the GOP never win their policy desires.

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The sides are clearly defined. Democrats always, always stick together, right or wrong.

Trust Trump or continue to bicker for the next 4 years.


Shutting down is a good thing but eventually an agreement must be passed and ol Roy probably screwed his district by becoming the spokes person for the Lizzy Republicans.

Let's watch and see how this plays out.

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The fact that you call a guy who is more conservative than Cruz a "Lizzy republican" tells me all I need to know: You have no clue what is going

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January 13, 2021
Press Release
WASHINGTON Rep. Chip Roy issued the following statement Wednesday evening:
It has come to my attention that a number of my colleagues are circulating calls for Liz Cheney to step down from, or to be removed as, Chair of the Republican Conference for her position in support of impeachment of the President. I reject this call, and offer my support.
While we reached a different conclusion on the vote regarding impeachment, as we have on other matters, Liz came to her conclusion based on the totality of the circumstances surrounding the President's actions leading to the events that occurred on January 6th, 2021. Liz viewed the articles as the sole vote in front of us, and that we did not get the chance to edit them. I viewed them as flawed in their structure because the focus on incitement is dangerous as constructed. But, one thing is clear: there can be little debate that, among other things, the President's pressure exerted on Vice President Pence to violate his oath, and the false hope it sent to emotionally charged supporters, was wrong, troubling, and impeachable.
Liz should be commended, not condemned, for standing up in defense of the Constitution and standing true to her
https://roy.house.gov/media/press-releases/rep-roy-rejects-calls-remove-chairwoman-cheney-house-gop-leadership


Dude is a Lizzy Republican and like it or not.



Dude is been in Washington and crowing but doing nothing.

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Nobody cares about this any more. It was four years ago and everyone was still in the fog of the battle and it is irrelevant to the debate at hand.

Flagged for derailing.

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Flagged cause you don't like the truth.

And 4 years ago doesn't change a thing, he is anti Trump, that statement proves it.

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Good. It's comical the same people yelling drain the swamp for years are mad because a conservative actually backed his base and didn't fall in line to be part of the swamp.

This isn't about backing dear leader regardless of whichever party is in control.

And we ended up with a worse bill that the Ds were more than happy to jump onboard with…

Congrats on "standing your ground"…

Yay America…

Worse in what way? Levin doesn't seem to think so. (Not that that is binding, but his arguments make sense)

More spending than the 1,500 pager? Seems doubtful.

titan said:

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Worse in what way? Levin doesn't seem to think so. (Not that that is binding, but his arguments make sense)

More spending than the 1,500 pager? Seems doubtful.

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Almost every D voted against plan B, and all but 1 voted for plan C…and you think fiscal conservatives got a better bill for the American people today?

I have a bridge for sale if you're interested…

Even the White House has signaled they are eager to sign it…the same White House who hates the Right and everything we stand for…

This was the WRONG hill to die on…

Republicans are pros at dying on the wrong hills.

FireAg said:

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titan said:

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Worse in what way? Levin doesn't seem to think so. (Not that that is binding, but his arguments make sense)

More spending than the 1,500 pager? Seems doubtful.

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Almost every D voted against plan B, and all but 1 voted for plan C…and you think fiscal conservatives got a better bill for the American people today?

I have a bridge for sale if you're interested…

Even the White House has signaled they are eager to sign it…the same White House who hates the Right and everything we stand for…

This was the WRONG hill to die on…

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That makes sense on its face can agree, but would prefer actual specifics. The Dems appear to be celebrating the $$$ they got (which can't really be the focus right now anyway) and why so on board as well as their wish to avoid shutdown --- but if it doesn't contain the things so expanding left power, or cementing things, the incoming admin can deal with it.

But Levin has pointed out they are basically arguing about a quarter of a budget with the whole rest of it untouchable, so its to no point until you get to Trump's admin proper. The test was `can you stop business as usual' and to a certain degree ---- they actually have stopped that. This is a successful step back by that yardstick.

Bud, Chip Roy voted against plan C…

So he torpedoed plan B on "principle", and then didn't achieve is objectives with plan C either…

Plan B would have helped Trump start his agenda…Plan C slows it down, and the Ds get what they want…

Absolute cluster ****…we can spin it all we want, but this was a cluster ****…

Thanks, Chip…

FireAg said:

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titan said:

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Worse in what way? Levin doesn't seem to think so. (Not that that is binding, but his arguments make sense)

More spending than the 1,500 pager? Seems doubtful.

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Almost every D voted against plan B, and all but 1 voted for plan C…and you think fiscal conservatives got a better bill for the American people today?

I have a bridge for sale if you're interested…

Even the White House has signaled they are eager to sign it…the same White House who hates the Right and everything we stand for…

This was the WRONG hill to die on…

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FireAg

You were all for shutting it down. What changed?

If this is about the debt ceiling, I'm not buying it.

The US budget is way too fat for there not to be enough money to handle illegal immigration.

Plus, Elon seems to be satisfied with this plan C.

FireAg said:

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Bud, Chip Roy voted against plan C…

So he torpedoed plan B on "principle", and then didn't achieve is objectives with plan C either…

Plan B would have helped Trump start his agenda…Plan C slows it down, and the Ds get what they want…

Absolute cluster ****…we can spin it all we want, but this was a cluster ****…

Thanks, Chip…

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Sorry, its a little unclear. Are you mad at Chip now? And why no mention of "A"?

A = First awful omnibus

B = I guess that slender second one.

C = Isn't that this one now, the one passed? So Roy voted against it?

What I get from this you didn't want Roy opposing B and C, so just checking.

Yes, shut it down when it doesn't blow up Trump's agenda, which is what I personally voted for…

Now, we not only have done nothing to curtail spending in the short term, we have now handcuffed the Trump agenda…tax cuts and immigration issues will be the first to suffer…both add to the debt in the short term, and now we can't afford them on the scale in which was promised…

Quote:

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FireAg

You were all for shutting it down. What changed?

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Yes that is what was confusing. Maybe misread your posts.

Doesn't Elon's favor count for something?

People like Chip getting spun up over the debt ceiling (which doesn't exist, and the easiest path was to extend it's suspension) means that we can't take on as much debt with tax cuts and immigration issues because that ceiling will handcuff him…

The right answer was to extend the ceiling suspension and then force an R Congress to write a budget that was greatly scaled down from normal D pork in order to offset the debt increases incurred by lowering taxes and kicking illegals out and making them stay out…

FireAg said:

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People like Chip getting spun up over the debt ceiling (which doesn't exist, and the easiest path was to extend it's suspension) means that we can't take on as much debt with tax cuts and immigration issues because that ceiling will handcuff him…

The right answer was to extend the ceiling suspension and then force an R Congress to write a budget that was greatly scaled down from normal D pork in order to offset the debt increases incurred by lowering taxes and kicking illegals out and making them stay out…

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Ah, thanks. Now I get you and looking back see the consistency in your last few. Especially since also pretty much in the camp of just get rid of the ceiling idea entirely until you can get things lined up sensibly with the true end of the fiscal year and away from holiday-rushes enabling omnibuses.

In this instance, under these circumstances, the debt ceiling issue was a red herring and the wrong hill to die on…

Ds love that Trump will be handcuffed now…they know they just gave him a huge obstacle to getting his agenda executed…

And thanks to Chip Roy's misplaced "principles" (of which I actually agree with, but not at a moment when we need Trump to have fiscal breathing room to do what we elected him to do in the short term), Trump now has a tougher job to get his stuff done…

That is counter to what I voted for…

FireAg said:

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Now, we not only have done nothing to curtail spending in the short term, we have now handcuffed the Trump agenda…tax cuts and immigration issues will be the first to suffer…both add to the debt in the short term, and now we can't afford them on the scale in which was promised…

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I'm not sure that's accurate. When the new Congress passes a budget bill through reconciliation that includes tax and immigration priorities, they should be able to increase the debt ceiling in the same bill.

And then there's an ongoing debate about whether extending the current Trump tax rates actually increases the debt. How does going flat from here add to the debt? If your baseline is the tax rates before Trump, you could make that case. But that was like 8 years ago and arguably not the right baseline for 2025. If you hold tax rates flat from 2024 and debt continues to increase, it's because spending exceeds tax revenue... which is exactly where the cuts need to take place.

Gonna be a messy show for sure.

Democrats vote as one block, very powerful even when not in control.


Republicans continue to out smart each other.

I see. Well it may mean they just need to be creative. For example, the billions slated to be wasted sending to the Amazon and out of the country, don't do that in 2025 and use that to swiftly finish the wall. (Or tell Texas they won't get in trouble if they just seize what they need and help the state do it) Just not repeating that would give billions.

Find more elsewhere in the same way. Shut down Dept of Education and Energy outright, and reboot leaner versions. And so on.

FireAg said:

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In this instance, under these circumstances, the debt ceiling issue was a red herring and the wrong hill to die on…

Ds love that Trump will be handcuffed now…they know they just gave him a huge obstacle to getting his agenda executed…

And thanks to Chip Roy's misplaced "principles" (of which I actually agree with, but not at a moment when we need Trump to have fiscal breathing room to do what we elected him to do in the short term), Trump now has a tougher job to get his stuff done…

That is counter to what I voted for…

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If TBD fiscal conservative Trump needs 5 Trillion MORE for his agenda, then no thanks.

But I doubt that is the case.

Trump's right hand man Elon is on board with this Plan C.

FireAg said:

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People like Chip getting spun up over the debt ceiling (which doesn't exist, and the easiest path was to extend it's suspension) means that we can't take on as much debt with tax cuts and immigration issues because that ceiling will handcuff him…

The right answer was to extend the ceiling suspension and

then force an R Congress to write a budget that was greatly scaled down from normal D pork

in order to offset the debt increases incurred by lowering taxes and kicking illegals out and making them stay out…

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How does a debt ceiling prevent the bolded? The debt ceiling exists to do exactly this.

With that said, I do agree it shouldn't even exist if Congress isn't going to abide by their own rule.


I also don't see how this mess is even remotely on Chip...even by 1%. He was going to vote "NO" on any Omnibus style CR regardless of the inclusion of a debt ceiling provision or not.

This cluser is squarely on Johnson and Trump. The D's played them like a fiddle since they could have voted for "Plan B" which allegedly had more pork in it than "Plan C". They didn't get everything they wanted with "Plan C" except the ability to say "We got over on Trump".

Probably trying to save face…

Again, all but 1 D voted for plan C and the WH has signaled they are ready to sign…

BTKAG97 said:

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Philip J Fry said:

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Hey. Congrats on getting a worse bill passed. At least killing the better one gives you the moral high ground.

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Sounds like it's an slightly... very slightly... better bill if it doesn't raise the debt ceiling.

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Now, next year when tax cuts and deportation can't get passed, don't be complaining.

It may be a direct result of this...

If Chip had just fallen in line with this, the Rs could claim victory and leave it on the Ds to take responsibility for the 'evil shutdown'…

But no, the shutdown was averted and the Ds gleefully handcuffed the incoming administration…

If this was a win for Rs, the Ds wouldn't be falling all over themselves to vote for it and rub the Rs nose in it…

Ag with kids said:

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BTKAG97 said:

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Philip J Fry said:

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Hey. Congrats on getting a worse bill passed. At least killing the better one gives you the moral high ground.

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Sounds like it's an slightly... very slightly... better bill if it doesn't raise the debt ceiling.

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Now, next year when tax cuts and deportation can't get passed, don't be complaining.

It may be a direct result of this...

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Precisely this…

Ag with kids said:

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BTKAG97 said:

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Philip J Fry said:

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Hey. Congrats on getting a worse bill passed. At least killing the better one gives you the moral high ground.

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Sounds like it's an slightly... very slightly... better bill if it doesn't raise the debt ceiling.

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Now, next year when tax cuts and deportation can't get passed, don't be complaining.

It may be a direct result of this...

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I'll ***** about the other useless spending they didn't cut which is exactly where my anger should be directed.

A debt ceiling is not what what will prevent the continued "Trump Tax Cuts".