Ag with kids said:

---

BTKAG97 said:

---

Philip J Fry said:

---

Hey. Congrats on getting a worse bill passed. At least killing the better one gives you the moral high ground.

---

Sounds like it's an slightly... very slightly... better bill if it doesn't raise the debt ceiling.

---

Now, next year when tax cuts and deportation can't get passed, don't be complaining.

It may be a direct result of this...

---

Order the military to secure the border in a pinch. Trump could do that as CinC. And instruct AG to ignore states willing to secure it as well. No more interfering with Abbott's efforts at the Rio Grande.

Cool…now what are going to do to round up the millions upon millions that need to be deported? That won't be free…

What about keeping tabs on them while their legal cases work through the system? That won't be free either…

FireAg said:

---

Cool…now what are going to do to round up the millions upon millions that need to be deported? That won't be free…

What about keeping tabs on them while their legal cases work through the system? That won't be free either…

---

Cut back on "Foreign Aid", starting with Ukraine. Cut back on welfare programs. Cut back on the plethora of Federal Grants.

You act like their are zero other options.

BTKAG97 said:

---

FireAg said:

---

Cool…now what are going to do to round up the millions upon millions that need to be deported? That won't be free…

What about keeping tabs on them while their legal cases work through the system? That won't be free either…

---

Cut back on "Foreign Aid", starting with Ukraine. Cut back on welfare programs. Cut back on the plethora of Federal Grants.

You act like their are zero other options.

---

This will take time to implement…that is not going to be an immediate fix…

In the meantime, the Trump agenda stalls before he even takes office…

We cut our nose off to spite our face..once again…it's like the R motto…

FireAg said:

---

Yes, shut it down when it doesn't blow up Trump's agenda, which is what I personally voted for…

Now, we not only have done nothing to curtail spending in the short term, we have now handcuffed the Trump agenda…tax cuts and immigration issues will be the first to suffer…both add to the debt in the short term, and now we can't afford them on the scale in which was promised…

---

And that is just CBO scoring...even if it ends up wildly wrong later. But, it has to be done for the bill to go through using reconciliation.

FireAg said:

---

Cool…now what are going to do to round up the millions upon millions that need to be deported? That won't be free…

What about keeping tabs on them while their legal cases work through the system? That won't be free either…

---

Maybe treat it the way the housing them was being treated? Just do it. Need to act like Democrats on some things to get ship righted.

Some things solving them quickly will outweigh any expense increase incurred doing it. That looks like one of them. Especially if you drop some deportation notions for its own sake, and deport criminals and the non-contributors. Don't even fool with those now assimilated or productive.

FireAg said:

---

1) If Chip had just fallen in line with this, the Rs could claim victory and leave it on the Ds to take responsibility for the 'evil shutdown'…

2) But no, the shutdown was averted and the Ds gleefully handcuffed the incoming administration…

3) If this was a win for Rs, the Ds wouldn't be falling all over themselves to vote for it and rub the Rs nose in it…

---

1) If Chip, et al, would have voted YES on "Plan B" then then bill would have passed and there would be no shutdown to blame on the Democrats therefore this arguement holds no weight.

2) I diesagree with you that the incoming Congress and Admin are handcuffed by a debt ceiling.

3) Democrats were going to do that regardless even if they needed to outright lie about it.

Wrong…if Plan B had passed, the Senate likely would have canned it, and even if they didn't, the WH likely doesn't sign it…

FireAg said:

---

BTKAG97 said:

---

FireAg said:

---

Cool…now what are going to do to round up the millions upon millions that need to be deported? That won't be free…

What about keeping tabs on them while their legal cases work through the system? That won't be free either…

---

Cut back on "Foreign Aid", starting with Ukraine. Cut back on welfare programs. Cut back on the plethora of Federal Grants.

You act like their are zero other options.

---

This will take time to implement…that is not going to be an immediate fix…

In the meantime, the Trump agenda stalls before he even takes office…

We cut our nose off to spite our face..once again…it's like the R motto…

---

You are in "The Sky is Falling" mode which is makes it impossible to agree with anything you are saying.

Doubtful anyone thinks the immigration fiasco will be fixed immediately.

One thing Trump should do is "redirect" appropriated funds as needed. Biden has done this over the last 4 years so he already set precedence.

FireAg said:

---

Wrong…if Plan B had passed, the Senate likely would have canned it, and even if they didn't, the WH likely doesn't sign it…

---

I take back what I justed stated. THIS I 100% agree with you.

Everyone cheering Chip Roy in this particular instance (and in general, Chip is someone I side with 99% of the time) needs to ask themselves this:

If this was such a good thing for how we think our nation should be run fiscally, then why the hell did every D (save for 1) vote FOR plan C?

MemphisAg1 said:

---

FireAg said:

---

Now, we not only have done nothing to curtail spending in the short term, we have now handcuffed the Trump agenda…tax cuts and immigration issues will be the first to suffer…both add to the debt in the short term, and now we can't afford them on the scale in which was promised…

---

I'm not sure that's accurate. When the new Congress passes a budget bill through reconciliation that includes tax and immigration priorities, they should be able to increase the debt ceiling in the same bill.

And then there's an ongoing debate about whether extending the current Trump tax rates actually increases the debt. How does going flat from here add to the debt? If your baseline is the tax rates before Trump, you could make that case. But that was like 8 years ago and arguably not the right baseline for 2025. If you hold tax rates flat from 2024 and debt continues to increase, it's because spending exceeds tax revenue... which is exactly where the cuts need to take place.

Gonna be a messy show for sure.

---

A bunch of Republicans just nuked a bill BECAUSE it did that.

Why would you think they'll suddenly change their mind next year?

But, the thing is, that the reconciliation bill has to be revenue neutral. That doesn't take into account the debt ceiling. So, the debt ceiling could be raised by eleventy quadrillion dollars and it would still fail the CBO scoring for reconciliation.

ETA: I was wrong about reconciliation. They COULD pass a separate bill on it or even combine it. Mea culpa.

Quote:

---

One thing Trump should do is "redirect" appropriated funds as needed. Biden has done this over the last 4 years so he already set precedence.

---

THIS. That and other things is what mean by act as Democrats did. Just get things reversed and fixed. Reversing can imply the same type of force/means is needed. As in an opposite.

FireAg said:

---

Everyone cheering Chip Roy in this particular instance (and in general, Chip is someone I side with 99% of the time) needs to ask themselves this:

If this was such a good thing for how we think our nation should be run fiscally, then why the hell did every D (save for 1) vote FOR plan C?

---

Irrelevant to why Chip, et al voted No.

The question is, if the Democrats were going to always vote NO on a spending bill until they felt it would be politically feasible to get over on Johnson and Trump, then why didn't Johnson put up a barebones CR for vote instead of a bloated monstrosity? Again, direct your anger on Trump and his minion.


ADDED: If I was in Johnson's shoes, I would have put up 12 different CRs to match the 12 "Traditional Budget Bills" in order to fund the federal government until June 1st.

Ag with kids said:

---

But, the thing is, that the reconciliation bill has to be revenue neutral. That doesn't take into account the debt ceiling. So, the debt ceiling could be raised by eleventy quadrillion dollars and it would still fail the CBO scoring for reconciliation.

---

Revenue neutral as compared to what?

Last year? Or some bogus baseline invented by bureaucrats?

Extending current tax rates from 2024 into 2025 is revenue neutral, at least from how I see the world.

FireAg said:

---

If Chip had just fallen in line with this, the Rs could claim victory and leave it on the Ds to take responsibility for the 'evil shutdown'…

But no, the shutdown was averted and the Ds gleefully handcuffed the incoming administration…

If this was a win for Rs, the Ds wouldn't be falling all over themselves to vote for it and rub the Rs nose in it…

---

This.

If the Dems are celebrating (and they are), then they won.

JFC. The GOP could **** up a wet dream.

MemphisAg1 said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

But, the thing is, that the reconciliation bill has to be revenue neutral. That doesn't take into account the debt ceiling. So, the debt ceiling could be raised by eleventy quadrillion dollars and it would still fail the CBO scoring for reconciliation.

---

Revenue neutral as compared to what?

Last year? Or some bogus baseline invented by bureaucrats?

Extending current tax rates from 2024 into 2025 is revenue neutral, at least from how I see the world.

---

A lot of it has to do with CBO scoring.

So the bogus baseline invented by bureaucrats.

But...that's the rule.

lol

LOL - stop it - 😂 https://t.co/MloeBZHzQ5

— Catturd ™ (@catturd2) December 20, 2024

BTKAG97 said:

---

FireAg said:

---

1) If Chip had just fallen in line with this, the Rs could claim victory and leave it on the Ds to take responsibility for the 'evil shutdown'…

2) But no, the shutdown was averted and the Ds gleefully handcuffed the incoming administration…

3) If this was a win for Rs, the Ds wouldn't be falling all over themselves to vote for it and rub the Rs nose in it…

---

1) If Chip, et al, would have voted YES on "Plan B" then then bill would have passed and there would be no shutdown to blame on the Democrats therefore this arguement holds no weight.

2) I diesagree with you that the incoming Congress and Admin are handcuffed by a debt ceiling.

3) Democrats were going to do that regardless even if they needed to outright lie about it.

---

The Senate Dems would have ****canned the bill.

That's his point.

The "shutdown" would have been done with the DEMOCRATS voting to cause it.

This guy is becoming my favorite congressman

We got played. No Democrats voted against it. More voted for it than Republicans. pic.twitter.com/OUiEhdepLM

— Tim Burchett (@timburchett) December 20, 2024

FireAg said:

---

Bud, Chip Roy voted against plan C…

So he torpedoed plan B on "principle", and then didn't achieve is objectives with plan C either…

Plan B would have helped Trump start his agenda…Plan C slows it down, and the Ds get what they want…

Absolute cluster ****…we can spin it all we want, but this was a cluster ****…

Thanks, Chip…

---

Plan B was never passing the Senate.

No one forced a vote on this specific legislation but Speaker Johnson. He could have just let the Ds eat a shutdown, but he's too big a ***** to fight fire with with fire. He'd rather coordinate, even ally himself, with those same Dems.

Ag with kids said:

---

BTKAG97 said:

---

FireAg said:

---

1) If Chip had just fallen in line with this, the Rs could claim victory and leave it on the Ds to take responsibility for the 'evil shutdown'…

2) But no, the shutdown was averted and the Ds gleefully handcuffed the incoming administration…

3) If this was a win for Rs, the Ds wouldn't be falling all over themselves to vote for it and rub the Rs nose in it…

---

1) If Chip, et al, would have voted YES on "Plan B" then then bill would have passed and there would be no shutdown to blame on the Democrats therefore this arguement holds no weight.

2) I diesagree with you that the incoming Congress and Admin are handcuffed by a debt ceiling.

3) Democrats were going to do that regardless even if they needed to outright lie about it.

---

The Senate Dems would have ****canned the bill.

That's his point.

The "shutdown" would have been done with the DEMOCRATS voting to cause it.

---

Yeah, as I already stated, I agree.

It's also why Johnson should have NEVER brought up an Omnibus Monstrosity to begin with therefore ZERO blame should be placed on Chip.

Pass a simple, clean CR - or as i already stated - pass 12 simple, clean CRs and let the Democrats be the asshats that "shut down the government".

f1ghtintexasaggie said:

---

No one forced a vote on this specific legislation but Speaker Johnson. He could have just let the Ds eat a shutdown, but he's too big a ***** to fight fire with with fire. He'd rather coordinate, even ally himself, with those same Dems.

---

Exactly

CDUB98 said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

Schrute Farms said:

---

Chip Roy is one of the most consistent hard right voices in Congress. Weird attack.

---

Not when you consider Chip Roy endorsed DeSantis in the primary. That's the actual rub here, not policy.

---

DING DING DING

Trump is insecure, and anyone who doesn't worship him is in his out-group.

---

Trump tried to play ball with the never-trumpers in the first term. I have no problem identifying opposition and calling them out early on.

My fear is holding out by principled conservatives give the reeling Democrat party some press in their favor.

No CR will result in a temporary shutdown that will enable MORE PORK when the real budget is finally passed.

Dan Scott said:

---

This guy is becoming my favorite congressman

We got played. No Democrats voted against it. More voted for it than Republicans. pic.twitter.com/OUiEhdepLM

— Tim Burchett (@timburchett) December 20, 2024

---

Woah! Exactly what I have been saying!!!

agwrestler said:

---

CDUB98 said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

Schrute Farms said:

---

Chip Roy is one of the most consistent hard right voices in Congress. Weird attack.

---

Not when you consider Chip Roy endorsed DeSantis in the primary. That's the actual rub here, not policy.

---

DING DING DING

Trump is insecure, and anyone who doesn't worship him is in his out-group.

---

Trump tried to play ball with the never-trumpers in the first term. I have no problem identifying opposition and calling them out early on.

My fear is holding out by principled conservatives give the reeling Democrat party some press in their favor.

No CR will result in a temporary shutdown that will enable MORE PORK when the real budget is finally passed.

---

Is Johnson a "principled conservative"? Because this disaster is on him and somewhat on Trump for his teenage twitter meltdown.

Dan Scott said:

---

This guy is becoming my favorite congressman

We got played. No Democrats voted against it. More voted for it than Republicans. pic.twitter.com/OUiEhdepLM

— Tim Burchett (@timburchett) December 20, 2024

---

Burchett is one of the good ones.

BTKAG97 said:

---

FireAg said:

---

People like Chip getting spun up over the debt ceiling (which doesn't exist, and the easiest path was to extend it's suspension) means that we can't take on as much debt with tax cuts and immigration issues because that ceiling will handcuff him…

The right answer was to extend the ceiling suspension and

then force an R Congress to write a budget that was greatly scaled down from normal D pork

in order to offset the debt increases incurred by lowering taxes and kicking illegals out and making them stay out…

---

How does a debt ceiling prevent the bolded? The debt ceiling exists to do exactly this.

With that said, I do agree it shouldn't even exist if Congress isn't going to abide by their own rule.


I also don't see how this mess is even remotely on Chip...even by 1%. He was going to vote "NO" on any Omnibus style CR regardless of the inclusion of a debt ceiling provision or not.

This cluser is squarely on Johnson and Trump. The D's played them like a fiddle since they could have voted for "Plan B" which allegedly had more pork in it than "Plan C". They didn't get everything they wanted with "Plan C" except the ability to say "We got over on Trump".

---

Really? You think that is what the nonexistent debt ceiling is supposed to be for?

The last time Congress completed all bills on time and passed a budget was 28 years ago, in 1996. Instead of a functioning appropriations process, Congress has resorted to massive omnibus appropriations bills and continuing resolutions that carry over spending from the previous year, and the balloon just keeps getting bigger. Trump came close in 2019 with H.R. 3877 but it still wasn't a full budget.


The debt ceiling is nothing more than a political cudgel to push pork

BTKAG97 said:

---

agwrestler said:

---

CDUB98 said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

Schrute Farms said:

---

Chip Roy is one of the most consistent hard right voices in Congress. Weird attack.

---

Not when you consider Chip Roy endorsed DeSantis in the primary. That's the actual rub here, not policy.

---

DING DING DING

Trump is insecure, and anyone who doesn't worship him is in his out-group.

---

Trump tried to play ball with the never-trumpers in the first term. I have no problem identifying opposition and calling them out early on.

My fear is holding out by principled conservatives give the reeling Democrat party some press in their favor.

No CR will result in a temporary shutdown that will enable MORE PORK when the real budget is finally passed.

---

Is Johnson a "principled conservative"? Because this disaster is on him and somewhat on Trump for his teenage twitter meltdown.

---

Johnson was good as a regular conservative congressman. He has not been good as speaker. He lacks strong leadership qualities. I'll never forget early on in his time as speaker when he got called into that meeting with Biden, McConnell and a couple of democrats. He completely folded on the Ukraine stuff after that. That was the beginning of the end for him. He showed weakness and the dems and rinos had him from there on out.

MarkTwain said:

---

BTKAG97 said:

---

FireAg said:

---

People like Chip getting spun up over the debt ceiling (which doesn't exist, and the easiest path was to extend it's suspension) means that we can't take on as much debt with tax cuts and immigration issues because that ceiling will handcuff him…

The right answer was to extend the ceiling suspension and

then force an R Congress to write a budget that was greatly scaled down from normal D pork

in order to offset the debt increases incurred by lowering taxes and kicking illegals out and making them stay out…

---

How does a debt ceiling prevent the bolded? The debt ceiling exists to do exactly this.

With that said, I do agree it shouldn't even exist if Congress isn't going to abide by their own rule.


I also don't see how this mess is even remotely on Chip...even by 1%. He was going to vote "NO" on any Omnibus style CR regardless of the inclusion of a debt ceiling provision or not.

This cluser is squarely on Johnson and Trump. The D's played them like a fiddle since they could have voted for "Plan B" which allegedly had more pork in it than "Plan C". They didn't get everything they wanted with "Plan C" except the ability to say "We got over on Trump".

---

Really? You think that is what the nonexistent debt ceiling is supposed to be for?

The last time Congress completed all bills on time and passed a budget was 28 years ago, in 1996. Instead of a functioning appropriations process, Congress has resorted to massive omnibus appropriations bills and continuing resolutions that carry over spending from the previous year, and the balloon just keeps getting bigger. Trump came close in 2019 with H.R. 3877 but it still wasn't a full budget.

The debt ceiling is nothing more than a political cudgel to push pork

---

The PURPOSE of a debt ceiling is to prevent pork spending and as I have already stated, Congess should get rid of it if they are not going to abide by it and continue to increase it but feel free to continue ranting incoherently.

Hubert J. Farnsworth said:

---

Dan Scott said:

---

This guy is becoming my favorite congressman

We got played. No Democrats voted against it. More voted for it than Republicans. pic.twitter.com/OUiEhdepLM

— Tim Burchett (@timburchett) December 20, 2024

---

Burchett is one of the good ones.

---

Agreed. Of note though, he too voted No and is complaining about all the questionalble billions of extra spending in the bill.

The people that played the R's are Johnson, Jeffries, McConnell, and Schumer.

“We” didn’t have a deal

Schumer, McConnell, Johnson & Jeffries had a deal

They didn’t bother to share it with the other 531 members of Congress until yesterday

And that deal sucked https://t.co/ZoRjHADHas

— Mike Lee (@BasedMikeLee) December 20, 2024

Ok

Don't blame the speaker blame the caucus. Maybe the caucus can hold together better when Trump sets the agenda
But the neo-cons, fiscal conservatives, Social Conservatives, MAGA & "Let it Burn" crowd have some significant differences when it comes to fiscal policy

Sq 17 said:

---

Don't blame the speaker blame the caucus. Maybe the caucus can hold together better when Trump sets the agenda
But the neo-cons, fiscal conservatives, Social Conservatives, MAGA & "Let it Burn" crowd have some significant differences when it comes to fiscal policy

---

Huh? The SOTH is supposed to bring the caucus together. The Dems have always been better at this than the Republicans.