Assad's army flees Aleppo as rebel group surges

40,193 Views | 440 Replies | Last: 1 day ago by AtticusMatlock
nortex97
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How many Christian's are even left in Syria? 300K? 100K?
Quote:

Prior to the outbreak of the Syrian Civil War in 2011, Christians represented roughly 10 percent of the population, which translated to around 1.5 million people. Today that number stands at around 300,000, many of whom left due to constant fighting and economic stagnation, i.e., the same reasons millions of other Syrians have fled. Others, however, have abandoned Syria because of persecution and violence at the hands of radical jihadist groups that make up a significant part of the rebel coalition.
RCD: 1916 map of Syria may not hold.
Quote:

The boundaries of Syria were set following the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, along with Jordan, Trans-Jordan, Lebanon and the British mandate of Palestine. The lines on the map drawn Mark Sykes and Georges Picot in a secret agreement in 1916, known as the Picot-Sykes Agreement, in anticipation of victory over the Turkish Ottoman Empire. It did not remain secret for long with Russia publicly releasing the documents to the protagonists and participants alike, laying bare British and French ambitions for the region.

Like many European borders drawn before and after the First World War, lines on maps did not match the population already present. The agreement initially saw the formation of one or more Arab states, conditional on Arab forces capturing Damascus, Homas, Hama and Aleppo.

A glimpse into the possible future, may be provided by revisiting the past. On 1 October 1918, Damascus was occupied by Sharifian militias, followed by Bedouin, Druze and the city descended into anarchy. Amongst those vying for influence and future control were wealthy Christians, the Hashemites, who would later form the Kingdom of Jordan with British support, and Prince Faisal, who would go on to become Faisal I, King of Iraq until his death in 1933. To further add to the cast was the Hejazi Arab Army of the South led by T E Lawrence (Lawrence of Arabia).

Today, at least initially, there appears to be a retention of the instruments of state with public statements by state media of the need for calm and indicating a transition of power. In 1918, there was no continuity in the business of government. Anarchy descended upon the city. Prisoners were released from prisons, there was a period of looting, and Turkish soldiers remaining in the city were massacred. Unlike the current situation, the fall of Damascus was part of a British campaign through Palestine. Peace came to Damascus when General Harry Chauvel and his Desert Mounted Corps entered the city.
My prediction is this will descend into some fighting/massacres among the groups over the next month or two, followed by calls for a 'peacekeeping force' to enter the 'country' to calm things down and end starvation etc. Zero doubt the Turks would move forces south, and the Israeli's toward Damascus (only 10 miles away as of this am?), in such a scenario. The Jihadi's would really have little luck against either professional military, imho.

Quote:

The initial signs of an orderly transition of power are positive. But the likelihood is that the disparate forces that banded together to overthrow the Assad regime will struggle to maintain a coherent purpose without the intervention and support of a major power. There is no Allenby British Army on the outskirts of Damascus ready to move in and restore order.

What there is, in the absence of brutal totalitarianism (which may yet emerge), is a lack of coherent purpose. The lines that were drawn on the map a century ago by Sykes and Picot have little meaning for the northern Sunni, the eastern Shia, the Druze to the south or the Alawite on the Mediterranean coast. There simply is no great purpose in a nation called Syria within borders drawn by European diplomats at the fall of the Ottoman Empire. There may yet be a nation called Kurdistan somewhere in the Levant. It is not the fall of Damascus that we should focus onit is what will happen next, and what Turkiye and Israel will do with the troublesome lands between their borders.
The IDF has also certainly not been sitting by and watching SAA equipment and munitions to fall into jihadi hands over the past 24 hours:

No idea if the below is remotely accurate:

nortex97
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AG
The "300 air strikes in 24 hours" claim does seem to be true:


Navy and AF are…gone.
Quote:

Israel's air force carried out about 300 strikes in Syria in the early hours of Tuesday morning, according to Israeli security sources.

Most of the strikes were in southern Syria and around the city of Damascus, targeting Syrian army bases, with an emphasis on air defense systems and stores of surface-to-surface and surface-to-air missiles.
Israeli security sources indicate that these actions have significantly expanded the air force's operational freedom.

Additionally, there have been attempts by Hezbollah to seize Syrian weaponry.

On Monday evening, two Syrian security sources told Reuters that IAF jets had struck at least three major Syrian army air bases that housed dozens of helicopters and jets.
2wealfth Man
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nortex97 said:

The "300 air strikes in 24 hours" claim does seem to be true:


Navy and AF are…gone.
Quote:

Israel's air force carried out about 300 strikes in Syria in the early hours of Tuesday morning, according to Israeli security sources.

Most of the strikes were in southern Syria and around the city of Damascus, targeting Syrian army bases, with an emphasis on air defense systems and stores of surface-to-surface and surface-to-air missiles.
Israeli security sources indicate that these actions have significantly expanded the air force's operational freedom.

Additionally, there have been attempts by Hezbollah to seize Syrian weaponry.

On Monday evening, two Syrian security sources told Reuters that IAF jets had struck at least three major Syrian army air bases that housed dozens of helicopters and jets.

also takes away the potential for any of that equipment being "bartered" back to Russia for use in the "special operation". Lord knows they need it, especially the aircraft.
nortex97
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Not really. It was all pretty ancient stuff, some of it not Russian (see the helicopter in the image). The tacair stuff was particularly old (mig-21 70's vintage). They were cut off from new purchases/deliveries by the Russians after around 2010, and their dozen or so mig-29's were grounded off and on over the past 30 years (acquired before 1989).

Similarly, the navy's missile boats were pretty ancient.



It was all in pretty terrible shape, too.
LMCane
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IDF doing the heavy work that Biden is too afraid / incompetent to do

LMCane
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what doesn't make any sense

is that the Israeli Air Force carried out more missions on 6 June 1967 (considering they destroyed over 500 Arab aircraft they had to fly at least 300 missions)

and likely during the first strikes on Lebanon earlier this year when Hizbullah was about to launch 1000 missiles at Tel Aviv
agcrock2005
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LMCane said:

IDF doing the heavy work that Biden is too afraid / incompetent to do


Awesome. Now when the new government gets established we can somehow end up purchasing all new equipment for them and keep our industrial military complex busy?
nortex97
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LMCane said:

IDF doing the heavy work that Biden is too afraid / incompetent to do
I think it's a continuing misperception to think Biden's administration (whoever is running it) is remotely opposed to Iran, on a strategic/financial level (or Russia/China). Certainly, John F Kerry we know loves them (he served in Vietnam/Cambodia, fyi).



Talk otherwise is generally just for show.
agsalaska
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The fact that millions want to go back instead of flee tells me all I need to know about the new regime.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.



Logos Stick
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agsalaska said:

The fact that millions want to go back instead of flee tells me all I need to know about the new regime.

They were fleeing war, not Assad. The estimates are 600k killed.
LMCane
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The fact that the IDF is able to smash Hamas and Hizbullah and all of Syria in a few minutes but refuses to attack the Iranian nuclear sites is a VERY bad sign...

Eliminatus
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Logos Stick said:

agsalaska said:

The fact that millions want to go back instead of flee tells me all I need to know about the new regime.

They were fleeing war, not Assad. The estimates are 600k killed.
They were fleeing both.
nortex97
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AG
No it's not, man. The Iranian nuke sites are underneath mountains now, even a MOAB or our biggest bunker buster probably wouldn't do it. The undefended/manned ancient Syrian junk was just sitting around, and across the border from them.
Logos Stick
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Eliminatus said:

Logos Stick said:

agsalaska said:

The fact that millions want to go back instead of flee tells me all I need to know about the new regime.

They were fleeing war, not Assad. The estimates are 600k killed.
They were fleeing both.


Hmm, I don't recall a mass refugee crisis out of Syria before Obama started the civil war. And if they think things are going to be better with Abu Mohammad al-Jolani taking over, they are in for a rude awakening.
Who?mikejones!
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elons right. The future isn't some guy sitting in a cockpit, especially from a nation flying such old and useless aircraft. They are sitting ducks when facing a foe like Israel or the United States.

The future is drone and missile oriented
YouBet
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nortex97 said:

No it's not, man. The Iranian nuke sites are underneath mountains now, even a MOAB or our biggest bunker buster probably wouldn't do it. The undefended/manned ancient Syrian junk was just sitting around, and across the border from them.


Yep. Probably could have thrown a couple of Molotov cocktails at this stuff and it would have been destroyed.
txags92
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LMCane said:

The fact that the IDF is able to smash Hamas and Hizbullah and all of Syria in a few minutes but refuses to attack the Iranian nuclear sites is a VERY bad sign...


It means they know they will lose a lot of their unspoken, but strong support from the gulf states if they attack Iran's nuclear program and Iran starts to retaliate by sinking tankers in the strait of Hormuz and attacking oil pipeline facilities of the gulf states.
2wealfth Man
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nortex97 said:

No it's not, man. The Iranian nuke sites are underneath mountains now, even a MOAB or our biggest bunker buster probably wouldn't do it. The undefended/manned ancient Syrian junk was just sitting around, and across the border from them.
probably going to have to be an inside job; after the pager bombs anything is possible
agent-maroon
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Other than russian "sources", has there been any confirmation of Assad being alive and currently located in russia?

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Red Fishing Ag93
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I'm pretty sure Biden said he did not want the Iran nuke sites attacked.

John Kerry probably begged for leaving them be.
AtticusMatlock
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Not that I've seen. There also hasn't been confirmed footage of a plane wreck. That situation is quite weird.
Chef Elko
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AG
Sweet, Israel seems to have a handle on things. Now stop sending them money.
LMCane
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Zobel said:

as far as I know Israel is not open to refugees from Syria unless they are Jewish. No exception for Christians.
That is simply not true

it is a FACT that hundreds and potentially thousands of Syrians were let into Israel during the Syrian Civil war and were treated FOR FREE at Israeli hospitals

Israel treats thousands of war-wounded Syrians

SAM McNEIL Updated 3:05 AM EST, April 8, 2017

QUNEITRA CROSSING, Golan Heights (AP) Seven wounded Syrians, two children, four women and a man __ waited in pain for darkness to fall to cross into enemy territory.

Under the faint moonlight, Israeli military medical corps quickly whisked the patients across the hostile frontier into armored ambulances headed to hospitals for intensive care.

It was a scene that has recurred since 2013, when the Israeli military began treating Syrian civilians wounded in fighting just a few kilometers (miles) away.

Israel says it has quietly treated 3,000 patients a number that it expects to quickly grow as fighting heats up in neighboring Syria in the wake of a chemical attack and, in response, an unprecedented U.S. missile strike.
Zobel
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AG
Did they stay in Israel afterward?
AtticusMatlock
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AtticusMatlock
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AtticusMatlock
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LMCane
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this sounds insane...

Straight Talk
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AG
Any updates on IDF moves? Are they still bombing weapon depots, etc?
YouBet
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AG
Looks like Russia is packing up its assets and existing their two bases.

https://www.wsj.com/world/russia/russia-begins-packing-up-military-equipment-in-syria-satellite-images-show-6cf23db9?st=i5zn8A&reflink=article_copyURL_share
titan
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S

That is your real finale. Let's just hope that Syria doesn't become another Islamist Afghanistan, or we may be wishing that Turkey fulfills its dream of "reclaiming Anatolia / Asia Minor" and takes over instead.
agsalaska
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titan said:


That is your real finale. Let's just hope that Syria doesn't become another Islamist Afghanistan, or we may be wishing that Turkey fulfills its dream of "reclaiming Anatolia / Asia Minor" and takes over instead.


I hope not too. I think Syria has more going for it than Afghanistan. Syria's people are far more liberal than Afghanistan's. At one time this century Allepo was at least a region wide tourist city with world class artisans and such. Damascus is/was/is a modern Capitol . Afghanistan is a lot more primitive.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.



nortex97
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YouBet said:

Looks like Russia is packing up its assets and existing their two bases.

https://www.wsj.com/world/russia/russia-begins-packing-up-military-equipment-in-syria-satellite-images-show-6cf23db9?st=i5zn8A&reflink=article_copyURL_share
With Assad gone I am not real sure what purpose those bases would serve at this point, other than a logistics stop for their African operations. They don't really do anything else in the Med and the jihadi's running Syria now aren't gonna be calling in Russian air strikes (or their own, other than some ancient Mi-8 types of helo's).

What will be 'interesting' is if the smallish fleet is given permission (by Turkey) to go to the Black Sea now. Only a couple paths out of the Mediterranean.



BQ78
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Why aren't they pulling out and leaving that equipment behind?

They need to sit at the feet of Joe Biden and obtain some of his foreign policy wisdom.
YouBet
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BQ78 said:

Why aren't they pulling out and leaving that equipment behind?

They need to sit at the feet of Joe Biden and obtain some of his foreign policy wisdom.


That's Master Strategist and foreign policy expert Joe Biden to you.
 
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