Median housing at $400k

21,779 Views | 282 Replies | Last: 1 mo ago by AggieUSMC
Ramdiesel
How long do you want to ignore this user?
C@LAg said:

Ramdiesel said:

MemphisAg1 said:

I feel for young folks trying to get into their first home, I really do. It's not their fault. My oldest son bought one in Dec 2020 just before prices took a moonshot and he got a good interest rate. I'll do whatever it takes to help my other two sons get into a house when they're ready, but a lot of people don't have that parental backup.

One thing that would help is if builders would build simpler starter homes. Today's median size house is 50% to 80% bigger than the median house 50 years ago, depending on where you get your statistics. Plus, ten to twelve foot vaulted ceilings, fancy trim, tile floors, granite counter tops, integrated electronics, wooden deck, etc. are now considered standard. All those things and all that extra size doesn't explain everything behind the moonshot in prices, but it's a big piece of it.

Cost = Square Feet X Dollars per Square Foot

Take a big bite out of both of those and it would help. I'm talking 1,200 to 1,500 square feet and Plain Jane. There's a market demand for smaller, simpler starter homes where first time buyers could build equity over several years and then gradually trade up to bigger homes when they're financially ready. I wonder if we'll see builders begin to target that segment, or are they making so much money on current home designs that they're just not interested?


It's like vehicles. Go try to buy a plane jane truck nowadays that looks nice, and doesn't have all the luxuries that Soccer moms want? What if I just want a truck that's very basic on the inside ( just radio, bluetooth, A/C, and Heat), and no carpet, just vinyl or something durable..I don't need a huge computer screen or power windows, or a truck with sensors all over it to tell me im going to cross the line or hit something. And, I want it to be 4x4 and look good on the outside. You can't get it really, they want you to pay for all the extras...
Yep.

Even Jeep, of all companies, who should allow you to buy a stripped down whatever, insist on pre-installed garbage making their prices ridiculous for as little as some of us want.

I would LOVE an Asian company to target Jeep with something like this.


True, you would think Jeep could sell a very basic Wrangler. I get Jealous when I look at some of the stripped down trucks they are allowed to sell in foreign countries but not here because of all the regulations; especially, the ones with baby diesel engines.. They are probably still better than some of the crap trucks that were sold in the 80s here in the US, but not legal for us to have because of EPA or some safety BS.
rilloaggie
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Owlagdad said:

I Just wonder how much a house these days might cost if it was built like a boomers first house:

Built with no 10-16 ft ceilings.
Lower pitch to roof-- no high roofs with enough attic space for another whole floor
LOL, no "office"
Linoleum and carpet-- no wood floors or laminate or tile floors, they got your floors done in one day! Just roll it out!
Tub and shower combo if you were lucky-- No "master" ( Realtors cant say that now) retreat and spa. No jets in bathtub, unless you had to bathe in same water as your brother to save money, and he farted. No tile separate shower
Slide in stove, no double ovens
No double entry doors.
Paneling!! No extra tape and mud of drywall.
Lots more insulation these days.
No three car garage. 22x22 was huge!
Fomica and not granite or quartz on counters.
no wifi wiring
no folding area in laundry room- space for washer and dryer about it.
No sodded yards and landscaping-- you did that.
And of course boomers didnt have Blackrock and Chinese buying up houses for rentals and crowding out young people.
At new wages, even for illegals, you are putting more labor money along with putting more material in a house.

Not discounting pain of kids today. Heck I couldn't afford new house. And i know what my wife would say if I asked her to live in the above house



I've responded to posts similar to this before. The notion that consumerism/fomo alone is driving the affordability issue is nonsense. I work in construction currently and used to work in the volume builder world. The cost of the things you've listed as upgrades are pretty negligible in the grand scheme of things. Some of the things you listed(insulation) aren't even optional due to building codes. Even ditching things like high ceilings and 3 car garages which would have a fair impact, housing costs are stupid these days. LGI probably builds homes as efficiently as anybody out there these days and Century Communities is one of their competitors. Here are a few of their current models. In my opinion, you truly can't build a house much cheaper than these unless you are swinging the hammer yourself.

https://www.lgihomes.com/texas/houston/freeman-ranch/bridgeland
3/2 - 1,366 SF - Starting at $289,900. These homes have "fancy" granite that is about 1cm thick and the rest of the finishes will be basically the same as any low end apartment. LGI targets 45 days from pouring the slab to handing over the keys. Did I mention efficiency lol? Subdivision is 40 miles from downtown Houston.

https://www.centurycommunities.com/find-your-new-home/texas/houston-metro/brookshire/laurel-farms/lots/010522-3906-glory-green-drive-324887cd/
3/2 - 1,288 SF - Starting at $279,990. 40 miles from downtown. Same quality and "amenities" as above.

If you want to live closer to town...
https://www.lgihomes.com/texas/houston/wayside-village/atticus
3/2 - 1,076 SF - Starting at $240,900. This house will shave 30-45 minutes off your commute(each way) and will likely shave years off your life ... https://crimegrade.org/violent-crime-77016/ Hope you don't have kids also, because the HS that this hood is zoned to proudly graduates 75% of their students and 9% are proficient in math! https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/texas/districts/houston-independent-school-district/north-forest-high-school-147684

I am a 37yo "millennial" who is happily paying a mortgage already but I feel like the older crowd is way out of touch on this issue. Your options as a youngster today are to pay out the nose to live somewhere safe and close to work, to live somewhere in BFE to meet the safe and affordable combo, or to roll the dice on safety and live somewhere close but sketchy. Folks who bought prior to 2000 didn't really face this problem. Plenty of affordable and safe neighborhoods, close to high number of well paying jobs existed back then. Now it's a pick 2 situation for most.
MemphisAg1
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Quote:

I am a 37yo "millennial" who is happily paying a mortgage already but I feel like the older crowd is way out of touch on this issue. Your options as a youngster today are to pay out the nose to live somewhere safe and close to work, to live somewhere in BFE to meet the safe and affordable combo, or to roll the dice on safety and live somewhere close but sketchy. Folks who bought prior to 2000 didn't really face this problem.
I'm not saying that the housing market today isn't tough for younger folks, but that bolded statement about people not facing this problem before is categorically false. I remember as a teenager living in Huntsville, TX when my best friend's dad worked out of Houston but commuted roughly 70 miles each way because of affordability. That was 1978-82. Several years earlier when I lived in Conroe, TX, my friends' parents lived there and commuted 40 miles to Houston, again in the name of affordability.

The "live close but expensive" or "further out and cheaper" is a dynamic that's been around for awhile.

Brings to mind another guy I knew around 2000 who lived in Pennsylvania and commuted 2 hours each way into NYC for work. Four hours on trains/buses each day just to afford a place for his family!

I feel for the younger crowd, but you're not the Lone Ranger here either.
CS78
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Heineken-Ashi said:


Because we really don't produce anything. We consume goods and services. That money is gone forever. And the only way to kick the can is to do it again. Take what little is left in the banks, and loan it back again in hopes that we can productive enough to keep inflation relatively in check.
My gut feeling is covid did something psychologically that can never be repaired. Covid gave a whole lot of people a great excuse to half-ass everything they did. You still see it today in workers not wanting to work, businesses closing for any excuse possible. "Its raining today, roads aren't safe, meeting (indoors) is cancelled". You see it everywhere. People are half-assing everything. Stuff that would have never been tolerated 5,10, 20, or 30+ years ago. It's like EVERYONE is in a race to either do as little as possible or screw each other out of as much as possible. Very little work and productivity, compared to the past.

As a nation, peak productivity is behind us.
hedge
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I think more people realize that there is more to life than working for 8 hours a day 5 days a week.
Sea Speed
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Then they shouldn't be complaining about not being able to afford a house in the city.
Heineken-Ashi
How long do you want to ignore this user?
CS78 said:

Heineken-Ashi said:


Because we really don't produce anything. We consume goods and services. That money is gone forever. And the only way to kick the can is to do it again. Take what little is left in the banks, and loan it back again in hopes that we can productive enough to keep inflation relatively in check.
My gut feeling is covid did something psychologically that can never be repaired. Covid gave a whole lot of people a great excuse to half-ass everything they did. You still see it today in workers not wanting to work, businesses closing for any excuse possible. "Its raining today, roads aren't safe, meeting (indoors) is cancelled". You see it everywhere. People are half-assing everything. Stuff that would have never been tolerated 5,10, 20, or 30+ years ago. It's like EVERYONE is in a race to either do as little as possible or screw each other out of as much as possible. Very little work and productivity, compared to the past.

As a nation, peak productivity is behind us.
I agree, but I think it started before COVID. The difference that COVID has, was that it removed a layer of productive workers from the labor force, mainly a significant chunk of near retirees. Then you had a layer of people who worked in fast food and lower paying service jobs who never went back to work. They are likely receiving government cheese of some sort while nightcrawling as youtube reactors, Instagram influencers, and twitch streamers. We have an entire generation of youth not actually doing anything, yet sucking an insane amount of resources. I've said for years now that the thing this country needs most is a hard correction. I hate saying it, as will be extremely painful. And I don't want to wish harm on anyone. But the only thing that truly breaks the role of government dependence and uselessness is the moment that your back is against the wall and its either work for food and housing or starve homeless.
“Give it hell Heinekandle, I’m enjoying it.”
- Farmer @ Johnsongrass, TX

“No secure borders, no alpha military, no energy independence, no leadership and most of all no mean tweets - this is the worst trade I’ve ever witnessed in my lifetime. ***Put that quote in your quote/signature section HeinendKandle*** LOL!”
- also Farmer @ Johnsongrass, TX (obviously in a worse mood)
hedge
How long do you want to ignore this user?
That's not how it works slick
TXAGBQ76
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
True, but what % of their incomes were those numbers.
ChoppinDs40
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
True but we know gubmint won't let that happen because votes. It would take true end of days scenarios, I think, for there to be significant societal shifts in our economy.
BrazosDog02
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
hedge said:

I think more people realize that there is more to life than working for 8 hours a day 5 days a week.


Ding ding ding. This guy gets it.
RebelE Infantry
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
rilloaggie said:

Owlagdad said:

I Just wonder how much a house these days might cost if it was built like a boomers first house:

Built with no 10-16 ft ceilings.
Lower pitch to roof-- no high roofs with enough attic space for another whole floor
LOL, no "office"
Linoleum and carpet-- no wood floors or laminate or tile floors, they got your floors done in one day! Just roll it out!
Tub and shower combo if you were lucky-- No "master" ( Realtors cant say that now) retreat and spa. No jets in bathtub, unless you had to bathe in same water as your brother to save money, and he farted. No tile separate shower
Slide in stove, no double ovens
No double entry doors.
Paneling!! No extra tape and mud of drywall.
Lots more insulation these days.
No three car garage. 22x22 was huge!
Fomica and not granite or quartz on counters.
no wifi wiring
no folding area in laundry room- space for washer and dryer about it.
No sodded yards and landscaping-- you did that.
And of course boomers didnt have Blackrock and Chinese buying up houses for rentals and crowding out young people.
At new wages, even for illegals, you are putting more labor money along with putting more material in a house.

Not discounting pain of kids today. Heck I couldn't afford new house. And i know what my wife would say if I asked her to live in the above house



I've responded to posts similar to this before. The notion that consumerism/fomo alone is driving the affordability issue is nonsense. I work in construction currently and used to work in the volume builder world. The cost of the things you've listed as upgrades are pretty negligible in the grand scheme of things. Some of the things you listed(insulation) aren't even optional due to building codes. Even ditching things like high ceilings and 3 car garages which would have a fair impact, housing costs are stupid these days. LGI probably builds homes as efficiently as anybody out there these days and Century Communities is one of their competitors. Here are a few of their current models. In my opinion, you truly can't build a house much cheaper than these unless you are swinging the hammer yourself.

https://www.lgihomes.com/texas/houston/freeman-ranch/bridgeland
3/2 - 1,366 SF - Starting at $289,900. These homes have "fancy" granite that is about 1cm thick and the rest of the finishes will be basically the same as any low end apartment. LGI targets 45 days from pouring the slab to handing over the keys. Did I mention efficiency lol? Subdivision is 40 miles from downtown Houston.

https://www.centurycommunities.com/find-your-new-home/texas/houston-metro/brookshire/laurel-farms/lots/010522-3906-glory-green-drive-324887cd/
3/2 - 1,288 SF - Starting at $279,990. 40 miles from downtown. Same quality and "amenities" as above.

If you want to live closer to town...
https://www.lgihomes.com/texas/houston/wayside-village/atticus
3/2 - 1,076 SF - Starting at $240,900. This house will shave 30-45 minutes off your commute(each way) and will likely shave years off your life ... https://crimegrade.org/violent-crime-77016/ Hope you don't have kids also, because the HS that this hood is zoned to proudly graduates 75% of their students and 9% are proficient in math! https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/texas/districts/houston-independent-school-district/north-forest-high-school-147684

I am a 37yo "millennial" who is happily paying a mortgage already but I feel like the older crowd is way out of touch on this issue. Your options as a youngster today are to pay out the nose to live somewhere safe and close to work, to live somewhere in BFE to meet the safe and affordable combo, or to roll the dice on safety and live somewhere close but sketchy. Folks who bought prior to 2000 didn't really face this problem. Plenty of affordable and safe neighborhoods, close to high number of well paying jobs existed back then. Now it's a pick 2 situation for most.


Well stated. Only thing I would add to this is take a look at the chart of avg home price vs avg wage over the last 50 or so years. It has grown from a gap to a gulf and is hurtling toward an abyss.
The flames of the Imperium burn brightly in the hearts of men repulsed by degenerate modernity. Souls aflame with love of goodness, truth, beauty, justice, and order.
TXAGBQ76
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
As one of the older folks folks whose original 1700 sq ft very few frills $49,950 house was as big a struggle for us and combined $11K annual salary, a big (for us) down payment, 16.5% interest rate as the younger folks trying to get their first homes today.
Heineken-Ashi
How long do you want to ignore this user?
RebelE Infantry said:

rilloaggie said:

Owlagdad said:

I Just wonder how much a house these days might cost if it was built like a boomers first house:

Built with no 10-16 ft ceilings.
Lower pitch to roof-- no high roofs with enough attic space for another whole floor
LOL, no "office"
Linoleum and carpet-- no wood floors or laminate or tile floors, they got your floors done in one day! Just roll it out!
Tub and shower combo if you were lucky-- No "master" ( Realtors cant say that now) retreat and spa. No jets in bathtub, unless you had to bathe in same water as your brother to save money, and he farted. No tile separate shower
Slide in stove, no double ovens
No double entry doors.
Paneling!! No extra tape and mud of drywall.
Lots more insulation these days.
No three car garage. 22x22 was huge!
Fomica and not granite or quartz on counters.
no wifi wiring
no folding area in laundry room- space for washer and dryer about it.
No sodded yards and landscaping-- you did that.
And of course boomers didnt have Blackrock and Chinese buying up houses for rentals and crowding out young people.
At new wages, even for illegals, you are putting more labor money along with putting more material in a house.

Not discounting pain of kids today. Heck I couldn't afford new house. And i know what my wife would say if I asked her to live in the above house



I've responded to posts similar to this before. The notion that consumerism/fomo alone is driving the affordability issue is nonsense. I work in construction currently and used to work in the volume builder world. The cost of the things you've listed as upgrades are pretty negligible in the grand scheme of things. Some of the things you listed(insulation) aren't even optional due to building codes. Even ditching things like high ceilings and 3 car garages which would have a fair impact, housing costs are stupid these days. LGI probably builds homes as efficiently as anybody out there these days and Century Communities is one of their competitors. Here are a few of their current models. In my opinion, you truly can't build a house much cheaper than these unless you are swinging the hammer yourself.

https://www.lgihomes.com/texas/houston/freeman-ranch/bridgeland
3/2 - 1,366 SF - Starting at $289,900. These homes have "fancy" granite that is about 1cm thick and the rest of the finishes will be basically the same as any low end apartment. LGI targets 45 days from pouring the slab to handing over the keys. Did I mention efficiency lol? Subdivision is 40 miles from downtown Houston.

https://www.centurycommunities.com/find-your-new-home/texas/houston-metro/brookshire/laurel-farms/lots/010522-3906-glory-green-drive-324887cd/
3/2 - 1,288 SF - Starting at $279,990. 40 miles from downtown. Same quality and "amenities" as above.

If you want to live closer to town...
https://www.lgihomes.com/texas/houston/wayside-village/atticus
3/2 - 1,076 SF - Starting at $240,900. This house will shave 30-45 minutes off your commute(each way) and will likely shave years off your life ... https://crimegrade.org/violent-crime-77016/ Hope you don't have kids also, because the HS that this hood is zoned to proudly graduates 75% of their students and 9% are proficient in math! https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/texas/districts/houston-independent-school-district/north-forest-high-school-147684

I am a 37yo "millennial" who is happily paying a mortgage already but I feel like the older crowd is way out of touch on this issue. Your options as a youngster today are to pay out the nose to live somewhere safe and close to work, to live somewhere in BFE to meet the safe and affordable combo, or to roll the dice on safety and live somewhere close but sketchy. Folks who bought prior to 2000 didn't really face this problem. Plenty of affordable and safe neighborhoods, close to high number of well paying jobs existed back then. Now it's a pick 2 situation for most.


Well stated. Only thing I would add to this is take a look at the chart of avg home price vs avg wage over the last 50 or so years. It has grown from a gap to a gulf and is hurtling toward an abyss.
This chart shows US Single Family Home Price vs US average hourly wage, using monthly as the timeframe. It's a relationship chart. Peaked in 2022. Last time it got close to that level was June 2005. We know what happened after that. And looks like we've already completed the first move down.



And I seriously don't think it resets again with house prices staying high and wages falling dramatically..
“Give it hell Heinekandle, I’m enjoying it.”
- Farmer @ Johnsongrass, TX

“No secure borders, no alpha military, no energy independence, no leadership and most of all no mean tweets - this is the worst trade I’ve ever witnessed in my lifetime. ***Put that quote in your quote/signature section HeinendKandle*** LOL!”
- also Farmer @ Johnsongrass, TX (obviously in a worse mood)
Tom Fox
How long do you want to ignore this user?
hedge said:

That's not how it works slick


You say in one breath that people don't want to work 40 hours a week but then say they should be able to afford their own home.

That's not how it works slick.
ChoppinDs40
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I'll play and show you how the middle class American can easily get into a position to not stash cash. This is what I'd consider a pretty standard upper middle class lifestyle in a decent suburb in Texas.

Family of 4, both of us work. Took a little longer than we'd have liked to have kiddo #2 (not by choice) but here we are. Ages 4.5 and 4 months.

Pre-bonus, our gross income is right at $400k.

Health insurance, employment taxes, federal income tax (suck it feds), 401k contributions, life insurance and HSA max contributions puts us right around 18k take home. Roughly 222k take home. Taxes crush the upper middle class. My paychecks are ~10k and the net is barely half of that.

It goes real quick. Mortgage, insurance, property taxes (astronomical), roughly $5,250 a month. 2.5% mortgage.

2 car payments plus modest rv, $2,600
Gas $600
Maintenance $150
Rv storage $185

Home improvement/lawn care, mulch, new potted plant flowers every year, pest service, tru green, house cleaner once a month or every other
$450
Internet, YTTV, water, trash, gas, electricity - $550

All food $1,500

Travel budget $1,000 (traveling is stupidly expensive even with miles, points, driving, etc)

Entertainment/fun/country club dues $1,200

Haircuts, nails did, hootiehoo waxed $270 (women's hair is ridiculous)

Random Amazon/BestBuy/Target shopping $400 (kids always need something)

Clothing $200
Childcare $2,600
Child activities $215
Medical out of pocket $400
Gym $50
Rv and auto insurance $400
529 plans $400
Extra brokerage $500

Now when I see neighbors around me with this and more… I really wonder how they do it.

If you'd told me we were making $400k/year 5 years ago… I'd tell you I was retiring by the time I was 50. lol

We're in a worst position than I want to be but cars are 3 years to payoff and once we're not paying $30k/year in childcare, we'll have a little more room to save.

jopatura
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Biggest problem with real estate is that it is presumed that equity will keep growing. What's going to happen to 5 years of first time home buyers that get crushed with falling prices and rising interest rates? We bought our house in 2020… we are stuck. There's also a lot of savings that have been parked in real estate because of equity growth… wipe that out and people lose their savings. At the end of the day, the economy needs home prices to stay high but the economy also needs first time homebuyers.
hedge
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sitting in an office for 40 hours isn't working. Your probably only do 20-25 hours of actual work
falconace
How long do you want to ignore this user?
A Net Full of Jello said:

barbacoa taco said:

and this is why younger generations get annoyed when boomers say things like "back in my day i bought a house at age 23 during my first job out of college, why can't you?"
That is a frustrating thing to hear, for sure, because circumstances are not equal now to how they were when Boomers were in their twenties and thirties. I think that we can all agree, though, that younger millennials and older Gen Zs who are entering the workforce have different priorities than Boomers and even GenXers. They do not remember the years their parents struggle financially and used only one car or two beat up cars, didn't go on nice vacations and would settle for a trip to Six Flags every couple of years, and didn't eat out often at all. They remember the prosperous years and expect to have a similar lifestyle right out of college. And even if they don't consciously realize it, many do prioritize the latest gadgets and toys, evenings out with friends, and fun vacations. They aren't saving for an investing in the future.


This. 100%.

I've seen it with younger folks I work with. They expect to have their parents lifestyle at the tail end of their careers, today. They don't get the concept of a starter home. They blow their disposable income like crazy and don't like saving. Many still have parents paying for aspects of their life (e.g. cell phone).

As with most things in life, getting ahead financially requires some form of self control and sacrifice. However it seems that is too hard for most in this world of instant gratification and keeping up with the joneses. You don't need to buy a house the year you get out of college. You are used to living as a poor college student. Find a cheap place to live, keep expenses low, save some money, and bust ass at work to start getting promoted and increase your income and you'll be good to go in a few years.
MemphisAg1
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
hedge said:

I think more people realize that there is more to life than working for 8 hours a day 5 days a week.
Yeah, try working 10 to 12 hours a day for 5 days a week and another 6 hours on the weekend. I did it for years to get ahead and it paid off handsomely.

If you seriously think working 8 hours a day for 5 days a week is too much, you'll still be on this board 20 years from now complaining about how hard it is to make it in life, and jealous of others who have the good life.
ts5641
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Best economy ever!
hedge
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I would rather work smarter than harder. I also have two jobs so I do work weekends as well
CS78
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Exactly. My financial security came from working 50/hrs a week at a steady job. Followed by 20/hrs a week on real estate buying/ selling/ rehab/ and rental. I was finding the deals, painting, laying the tile, doing every part of the sucky process myself every day full steam ahead for 8 years. All while driving piece of crap vehicles with 150k miles on them and being too cheap to order a combo meal at McDonalds. Yes it sucked but I was younger, starting a family, and it was worth it.
LMCane
How long do you want to ignore this user?
it would be nice if we had a Republican nominee who could enunciate the fact that home prices are $400,000 -

and then ask if JUST PERHAPS 8,000,000 NEW ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS who need to live in a house-

might just have something to do with the demand for a limited supply raising prices.
Emotional Support Cobra
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I consider myself very lucky that my parents showed me how much they sacrificed for what they were able to do for our family. We had no cable tv,no touch tone phone, no credit card (til the 00s at least). My mom sewed a lot of my clothes including formal dresses. She washed out ziplocks and we never ate out. They aggressively saved and paid off their homes asap, buying cash cars and DIY everything. It is a blessing knowing my mother has enough cash now to ensure I do not have to put her in a nursing home and can afford home nursing care when needed. That is literally her end game, to not go to a nursing home and we can afford to do it because of her hard work.

Our teen just got her first job and we are working on saving practices and my husband started her a roth.

Tom Fox
How long do you want to ignore this user?
hedge said:

Sitting in an office for 40 hours isn't working. Your probably only do 20-25 hours of actual work
I own my own business. I work about 65 hours a week. In the beginning it was closer to 80. And I started the business only 6 years ago. I also make around $900K. Try again youngster. I can be done even in this economy.

You were right about one thing. I am only sitting in the office about 20 hours a week. The rest of the time I am either traveling or in court.

I bought my house at the end of 2020, 2 years after I started my business.
TexAgs23
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Great data, thank you for sharing!
No Spin Ag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
falconace said:

A Net Full of Jello said:

barbacoa taco said:

and this is why younger generations get annoyed when boomers say things like "back in my day i bought a house at age 23 during my first job out of college, why can't you?"
That is a frustrating thing to hear, for sure, because circumstances are not equal now to how they were when Boomers were in their twenties and thirties. I think that we can all agree, though, that younger millennials and older Gen Zs who are entering the workforce have different priorities than Boomers and even GenXers. They do not remember the years their parents struggle financially and used only one car or two beat up cars, didn't go on nice vacations and would settle for a trip to Six Flags every couple of years, and didn't eat out often at all. They remember the prosperous years and expect to have a similar lifestyle right out of college. And even if they don't consciously realize it, many do prioritize the latest gadgets and toys, evenings out with friends, and fun vacations. They aren't saving for an investing in the future.


This. 100%.

I've seen it with younger folks I work with. They expect to have their parents lifestyle at the tail end of their careers, today. They don't get the concept of a starter home. They blow their disposable income like crazy and don't like saving. Many still have parents paying for aspects of their life (e.g. cell phone).

As with most things in life, getting ahead financially requires some form of self control and sacrifice. However it seems that is too hard for most in this world of instant gratification and keeping up with the joneses. You don't need to buy a house the year you get out of college. You are used to living as a poor college student. Find a cheap place to live, keep expenses low, save some money, and bust ass at work to start getting promoted and increase your income and you'll be good to go in a few years.
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates
zooguy96
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Young people these days don't know how easy they have it.

My parents sucked when it came to providing for the family or saving $$. My dad had various jobs (that didn't make any money - usually lost money) in construction, roofing, insurance, sales, etc. Never had anything steady. My mom finally went back to school in her late 30's to get her teaching certification - and taught for 25 years. Dad finally got a good, steady job in his mid-50's before he passed at 59.

We had nothing as children. We were homeless for a couple of years (lived in my dad's warehouse office, or with friends or family - there were 7 of us). Lost all of our possessions when my dad didn't pay the rent for our 1 BR apt, and while gone for the weekend, they threw all of our possessions in the trash. My mom had a few baby pictures of us, mainly from relatives. We wore clothes from whatever they had at the church lost and found, or sometimes, would get 1 or 2 new outfits per year at the Kmart "blue light" specials. Didn't get birthday or Christmas presents from our parents - sometimes, got clothes from grandparents.

Finally got to live on a mobile home with no AC or heat, no insulation, and with the floors falling through (I had to replace the particle board with pieces of 3/4" plywood with my mom every summer starting when I was 8 or 9). Junk cars everywhere in the yard (3 boats, church bus, dump truck, old RV, 4-5 other random cars). Didn't have a room until I was 14 (shared with my brother - before, slept on the floor or the couch - if we had a couch at the time). Didn't go to prom (too poor and too embarrassed), no license til I was 17, no car of my own until I was 19. Given all this, I didn't have many friends, because I was too embarrassed to have them come to our junkyard. I remember finally getting a new pair of glasses after 4 years - and the temple broke. I had to use duct tape and black permanent marker (to hide that it was duct taped) for the rest of the year, because we of course, couldn't afford new ones. Beaten by my father for things my brother had done. Had a reading dyslexia (like a fast computer with a slow internet connection) - I was 20-25 years above age level cognitively, but at age level reading-comprehension wise (tactile-kinesthetic learner).

And, despite all this - I graduated A&M (working 2 jobs 40-50 hours a week to pay the bills and send $$ back home), bought my first house at 27, got a masters degree, and am currently working on an additional masters.

I think sometimes (myself included), we get too interested in what others are doing - and try to be like them, rather than focusing on what we need to do in our own situations (like saving $$, remembering that you can't take material things with you when you die, helping others, serving Christ, hoping the Aggies win a NC in our lifetimes, etc).
I know a lot about a little, and a little about a lot.
No Spin Ag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
rilloaggie said:

Owlagdad said:

I Just wonder how much a house these days might cost if it was built like a boomers first house:

Built with no 10-16 ft ceilings.
Lower pitch to roof-- no high roofs with enough attic space for another whole floor
LOL, no "office"
Linoleum and carpet-- no wood floors or laminate or tile floors, they got your floors done in one day! Just roll it out!
Tub and shower combo if you were lucky-- No "master" ( Realtors cant say that now) retreat and spa. No jets in bathtub, unless you had to bathe in same water as your brother to save money, and he farted. No tile separate shower
Slide in stove, no double ovens
No double entry doors.
Paneling!! No extra tape and mud of drywall.
Lots more insulation these days.
No three car garage. 22x22 was huge!
Fomica and not granite or quartz on counters.
no wifi wiring
no folding area in laundry room- space for washer and dryer about it.
No sodded yards and landscaping-- you did that.
And of course boomers didnt have Blackrock and Chinese buying up houses for rentals and crowding out young people.
At new wages, even for illegals, you are putting more labor money along with putting more material in a house.

Not discounting pain of kids today. Heck I couldn't afford new house. And i know what my wife would say if I asked her to live in the above house



I've responded to posts similar to this before. The notion that consumerism/fomo alone is driving the affordability issue is nonsense. I work in construction currently and used to work in the volume builder world. The cost of the things you've listed as upgrades are pretty negligible in the grand scheme of things. Some of the things you listed(insulation) aren't even optional due to building codes. Even ditching things like high ceilings and 3 car garages which would have a fair impact, housing costs are stupid these days. LGI probably builds homes as efficiently as anybody out there these days and Century Communities is one of their competitors. Here are a few of their current models. In my opinion, you truly can't build a house much cheaper than these unless you are swinging the hammer yourself.

https://www.lgihomes.com/texas/houston/freeman-ranch/bridgeland
3/2 - 1,366 SF - Starting at $289,900. These homes have "fancy" granite that is about 1cm thick and the rest of the finishes will be basically the same as any low end apartment. LGI targets 45 days from pouring the slab to handing over the keys. Did I mention efficiency lol? Subdivision is 40 miles from downtown Houston.

https://www.centurycommunities.com/find-your-new-home/texas/houston-metro/brookshire/laurel-farms/lots/010522-3906-glory-green-drive-324887cd/
3/2 - 1,288 SF - Starting at $279,990. 40 miles from downtown. Same quality and "amenities" as above.

If you want to live closer to town...
https://www.lgihomes.com/texas/houston/wayside-village/atticus
3/2 - 1,076 SF - Starting at $240,900. This house will shave 30-45 minutes off your commute(each way) and will likely shave years off your life ... https://crimegrade.org/violent-crime-77016/ Hope you don't have kids also, because the HS that this hood is zoned to proudly graduates 75% of their students and 9% are proficient in math! https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/texas/districts/houston-independent-school-district/north-forest-high-school-147684

I am a 37yo "millennial" who is happily paying a mortgage already but I feel like the older crowd is way out of touch on this issue. Your options as a youngster today are to pay out the nose to live somewhere safe and close to work, to live somewhere in BFE to meet the safe and affordable combo, or to roll the dice on safety and live somewhere close but sketchy. Folks who bought prior to 2000 didn't really face this problem. Plenty of affordable and safe neighborhoods, close to high number of well paying jobs existed back then. Now it's a pick 2 situation for most.


So, do you think that this is an issue that even a president can't fix? That this he new normal and will stay this way regardless of what happen in D.C.?
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates
hedge
How long do you want to ignore this user?
No offense but the data shows that wages have not risen at the costs of homes and that the current generation does not make enough to buy a home regardless of interest rates.
zooguy96
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
hedge said:

No offense but the data shows that wages have not risen at the costs of homes and that the current generation does not make enough to buy a home regardless of interest rates.


If you don't make enough - then you go into something that pays more. Get a certification, etc. There are plenty of careers people can CHOOSE to go into that easily pay enough to buy a house - many, with 2 or less years of schooling. You may have to go without for a while (no tv, drive a beater car, etc), but it's definitely doable.

It is the poor choices made previously that endanger house buying. Is it more difficult now? Yes. But, it was equally as difficult when Carter was president. People just had different priorities.

I bought my first house when I was making $27,000 a year - but, I had different priorities.
I know a lot about a little, and a little about a lot.
Tom Fox
How long do you want to ignore this user?
rilloaggie said:

Owlagdad said:

I Just wonder how much a house these days might cost if it was built like a boomers first house:

Built with no 10-16 ft ceilings.
Lower pitch to roof-- no high roofs with enough attic space for another whole floor
LOL, no "office"
Linoleum and carpet-- no wood floors or laminate or tile floors, they got your floors done in one day! Just roll it out!
Tub and shower combo if you were lucky-- No "master" ( Realtors cant say that now) retreat and spa. No jets in bathtub, unless you had to bathe in same water as your brother to save money, and he farted. No tile separate shower
Slide in stove, no double ovens
No double entry doors.
Paneling!! No extra tape and mud of drywall.
Lots more insulation these days.
No three car garage. 22x22 was huge!
Fomica and not granite or quartz on counters.
no wifi wiring
no folding area in laundry room- space for washer and dryer about it.
No sodded yards and landscaping-- you did that.
And of course boomers didnt have Blackrock and Chinese buying up houses for rentals and crowding out young people.
At new wages, even for illegals, you are putting more labor money along with putting more material in a house.

Not discounting pain of kids today. Heck I couldn't afford new house. And i know what my wife would say if I asked her to live in the above house



I've responded to posts similar to this before. The notion that consumerism/fomo alone is driving the affordability issue is nonsense. I work in construction currently and used to work in the volume builder world. The cost of the things you've listed as upgrades are pretty negligible in the grand scheme of things. Some of the things you listed(insulation) aren't even optional due to building codes. Even ditching things like high ceilings and 3 car garages which would have a fair impact, housing costs are stupid these days. LGI probably builds homes as efficiently as anybody out there these days and Century Communities is one of their competitors. Here are a few of their current models. In my opinion, you truly can't build a house much cheaper than these unless you are swinging the hammer yourself.

https://www.lgihomes.com/texas/houston/freeman-ranch/bridgeland
3/2 - 1,366 SF - Starting at $289,900. These homes have "fancy" granite that is about 1cm thick and the rest of the finishes will be basically the same as any low end apartment. LGI targets 45 days from pouring the slab to handing over the keys. Did I mention efficiency lol? Subdivision is 40 miles from downtown Houston.

https://www.centurycommunities.com/find-your-new-home/texas/houston-metro/brookshire/laurel-farms/lots/010522-3906-glory-green-drive-324887cd/
3/2 - 1,288 SF - Starting at $279,990. 40 miles from downtown. Same quality and "amenities" as above.

If you want to live closer to town...
https://www.lgihomes.com/texas/houston/wayside-village/atticus
3/2 - 1,076 SF - Starting at $240,900. This house will shave 30-45 minutes off your commute(each way) and will likely shave years off your life ... https://crimegrade.org/violent-crime-77016/ Hope you don't have kids also, because the HS that this hood is zoned to proudly graduates 75% of their students and 9% are proficient in math! https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/texas/districts/houston-independent-school-district/north-forest-high-school-147684

I am a 37yo "millennial" who is happily paying a mortgage already but I feel like the older crowd is way out of touch on this issue. Your options as a youngster today are to pay out the nose to live somewhere safe and close to work, to live somewhere in BFE to meet the safe and affordable combo, or to roll the dice on safety and live somewhere close but sketchy. Folks who bought prior to 2000 didn't really face this problem. Plenty of affordable and safe neighborhoods, close to high number of well paying jobs existed back then. Now it's a pick 2 situation for most.
I was curious so I went back and looked.

I started as a fed in 1997 in Dallas. I was a GS-9/1 (38,658 + Leap(25%) = 48,322.50. I married my ex who was also an agent in the same grade.

We bought a 1600sf tract home in Euless, TX in 1999 for 164,000. By then we were both GS12/1 (44,458 + Leap(25%) = 55,572.50. So we made $111K together for a house at $164K at 7.6% interest.

Today a GS12/1 agent in Dallas makes 112,310. Married agents would make just more than double, so 224,620.
If you double the price of my first house it would be 328,000.

Anecdotally, I would say that home costs today versus earnings are just about the same as in 1999. At least for two young and brand new federal agents that just got married.

Hoyt Ag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Owlagdad said:

I Just wonder how much a house these days might cost if it was built like a boomers first house:

Built with no 10-16 ft ceilings.
Lower pitch to roof-- no high roofs with enough attic space for another whole floor
LOL, no "office"
Linoleum and carpet-- no wood floors or laminate or tile floors, they got your floors done in one day! Just roll it out!
Tub and shower combo if you were lucky-- No "master" ( Realtors cant say that now) retreat and spa. No jets in bathtub, unless you had to bathe in same water as your brother to save money, and he farted. No tile separate shower
Slide in stove, no double ovens
No double entry doors.
Paneling!! No extra tape and mud of drywall.
Lots more insulation these days.
No three car garage. 22x22 was huge!
Fomica and not granite or quartz on counters.
no wifi wiring
no folding area in laundry room- space for washer and dryer about it.
No sodded yards and landscaping-- you did that.
And of course boomers didnt have Blackrock and Chinese buying up houses for rentals and crowding out young people.
At new wages, even for illegals, you are putting more labor money along with putting more material in a house.

Not discounting pain of kids today. Heck I couldn't afford new house. And i know what my wife would say if I asked her to live in the above house



I had about 70% of that in my home when I bought it in 2021 and paid $440K. Built in 1921, 3821sqft, 5bed,4bath in NW CO. Today after about $60-80K in reno I have done, I can sell it for about $650K.
jja79
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
You're the envy of 99% of Americans.
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.