C@LAg said:

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Ramdiesel said:

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MemphisAg1 said:

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I feel for young folks trying to get into their first home, I really do. It's not their fault. My oldest son bought one in Dec 2020 just before prices took a moonshot and he got a good interest rate. I'll do whatever it takes to help my other two sons get into a house when they're ready, but a lot of people don't have that parental backup.

One thing that would help is if builders would build simpler starter homes. Today's median size house is 50% to 80% bigger than the median house 50 years ago, depending on where you get your statistics. Plus, ten to twelve foot vaulted ceilings, fancy trim, tile floors, granite counter tops, integrated electronics, wooden deck, etc. are now considered standard. All those things and all that extra size doesn't explain everything behind the moonshot in prices, but it's a big piece of it.

Cost = Square Feet X Dollars per Square Foot

Take a big bite out of both of those and it would help. I'm talking 1,200 to 1,500 square feet and Plain Jane. There's a market demand for smaller, simpler starter homes where first time buyers could build equity over several years and then gradually trade up to bigger homes when they're financially ready. I wonder if we'll see builders begin to target that segment, or are they making so much money on current home designs that they're just not interested?

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It's like vehicles. Go try to buy a plane jane truck nowadays that looks nice, and doesn't have all the luxuries that Soccer moms want? What if I just want a truck that's very basic on the inside ( just radio, bluetooth, A/C, and Heat), and no carpet, just vinyl or something durable..I don't need a huge computer screen or power windows, or a truck with sensors all over it to tell me im going to cross the line or hit something. And, I want it to be 4x4 and look good on the outside. You can't get it really, they want you to pay for all the extras...

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Yep.

Even Jeep, of all companies, who should allow you to buy a stripped down whatever, insist on pre-installed garbage making their prices ridiculous for as little as some of us want.

I would LOVE an Asian company to target Jeep with something like this.

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Quote:

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I am a 37yo "millennial" who is happily paying a mortgage already but I feel like the older crowd is way out of touch on this issue. Your options as a youngster today are to pay out the nose to live somewhere safe and close to work, to live somewhere in BFE to meet the safe and affordable combo, or to roll the dice on safety and live somewhere close but sketchy. Folks who bought prior to 2000 didn't really face this problem.

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Heineken-Ashi said:

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Because we really don't produce anything. We consume goods and services. That money is gone forever. And the only way to kick the can is to do it again. Take what little is left in the banks, and loan it back again in hopes that we can productive enough to keep inflation relatively in check.

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CS78 said:

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Heineken-Ashi said:

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Because we really don't produce anything. We consume goods and services. That money is gone forever. And the only way to kick the can is to do it again. Take what little is left in the banks, and loan it back again in hopes that we can productive enough to keep inflation relatively in check.

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My gut feeling is covid did something psychologically that can never be repaired. Covid gave a whole lot of people a great excuse to half-ass everything they did. You still see it today in workers not wanting to work, businesses closing for any excuse possible. "Its raining today, roads aren't safe, meeting (indoors) is cancelled". You see it everywhere. People are half-assing everything. Stuff that would have never been tolerated 5,10, 20, or 30+ years ago. It's like EVERYONE is in a race to either do as little as possible or screw each other out of as much as possible. Very little work and productivity, compared to the past.

As a nation, peak productivity is behind us.

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hedge said:

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I think more people realize that there is more to life than working for 8 hours a day 5 days a week.

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rilloaggie said:

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Owlagdad said:

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I Just wonder how much a house these days might cost if it was built like a boomers first house:

Built with no 10-16 ft ceilings.
Lower pitch to roof-- no high roofs with enough attic space for another whole floor
LOL, no "office"
Linoleum and carpet-- no wood floors or laminate or tile floors, they got your floors done in one day! Just roll it out!
Tub and shower combo if you were lucky-- No "master" ( Realtors cant say that now) retreat and spa. No jets in bathtub, unless you had to bathe in same water as your brother to save money, and he farted. No tile separate shower
Slide in stove, no double ovens
No double entry doors.
Paneling!! No extra tape and mud of drywall.
Lots more insulation these days.
No three car garage. 22x22 was huge!
Fomica and not granite or quartz on counters.
no wifi wiring
no folding area in laundry room- space for washer and dryer about it.
No sodded yards and landscaping-- you did that.
And of course boomers didnt have Blackrock and Chinese buying up houses for rentals and crowding out young people.
At new wages, even for illegals, you are putting more labor money along with putting more material in a house.

Not discounting pain of kids today. Heck I couldn't afford new house. And i know what my wife would say if I asked her to live in the above house

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I've responded to posts similar to this before. The notion that consumerism/fomo alone is driving the affordability issue is nonsense. I work in construction currently and used to work in the volume builder world. The cost of the things you've listed as upgrades are pretty negligible in the grand scheme of things. Some of the things you listed(insulation) aren't even optional due to building codes. Even ditching things like high ceilings and 3 car garages which would have a fair impact, housing costs are stupid these days. LGI probably builds homes as efficiently as anybody out there these days and Century Communities is one of their competitors. Here are a few of their current models. In my opinion, you truly can't build a house much cheaper than these unless you are swinging the hammer yourself.

https://www.lgihomes.com/texas/houston/freeman-ranch/bridgeland
3/2 - 1,366 SF - Starting at $289,900. These homes have "fancy" granite that is about 1cm thick and the rest of the finishes will be basically the same as any low end apartment. LGI targets 45 days from pouring the slab to handing over the keys. Did I mention efficiency lol? Subdivision is 40 miles from downtown Houston.

https://www.centurycommunities.com/find-your-new-home/texas/houston-metro/brookshire/laurel-farms/lots/010522-3906-glory-green-drive-324887cd/
3/2 - 1,288 SF - Starting at $279,990. 40 miles from downtown. Same quality and "amenities" as above.

If you want to live closer to town...
https://www.lgihomes.com/texas/houston/wayside-village/atticus
3/2 - 1,076 SF - Starting at $240,900. This house will shave 30-45 minutes off your commute(each way) and will likely shave years off your life ... https://crimegrade.org/violent-crime-77016/ Hope you don't have kids also, because the HS that this hood is zoned to proudly graduates 75% of their students and 9% are proficient in math! https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/texas/districts/houston-independent-school-district/north-forest-high-school-147684

I am a 37yo "millennial" who is happily paying a mortgage already but I feel like the older crowd is way out of touch on this issue. Your options as a youngster today are to pay out the nose to live somewhere safe and close to work, to live somewhere in BFE to meet the safe and affordable combo, or to roll the dice on safety and live somewhere close but sketchy. Folks who bought prior to 2000 didn't really face this problem. Plenty of affordable and safe neighborhoods, close to high number of well paying jobs existed back then. Now it's a pick 2 situation for most.

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RebelE Infantry said:

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rilloaggie said:

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Owlagdad said:

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I Just wonder how much a house these days might cost if it was built like a boomers first house:

Built with no 10-16 ft ceilings.
Lower pitch to roof-- no high roofs with enough attic space for another whole floor
LOL, no "office"
Linoleum and carpet-- no wood floors or laminate or tile floors, they got your floors done in one day! Just roll it out!
Tub and shower combo if you were lucky-- No "master" ( Realtors cant say that now) retreat and spa. No jets in bathtub, unless you had to bathe in same water as your brother to save money, and he farted. No tile separate shower
Slide in stove, no double ovens
No double entry doors.
Paneling!! No extra tape and mud of drywall.
Lots more insulation these days.
No three car garage. 22x22 was huge!
Fomica and not granite or quartz on counters.
no wifi wiring
no folding area in laundry room- space for washer and dryer about it.
No sodded yards and landscaping-- you did that.
And of course boomers didnt have Blackrock and Chinese buying up houses for rentals and crowding out young people.
At new wages, even for illegals, you are putting more labor money along with putting more material in a house.

Not discounting pain of kids today. Heck I couldn't afford new house. And i know what my wife would say if I asked her to live in the above house

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I've responded to posts similar to this before. The notion that consumerism/fomo alone is driving the affordability issue is nonsense. I work in construction currently and used to work in the volume builder world. The cost of the things you've listed as upgrades are pretty negligible in the grand scheme of things. Some of the things you listed(insulation) aren't even optional due to building codes. Even ditching things like high ceilings and 3 car garages which would have a fair impact, housing costs are stupid these days. LGI probably builds homes as efficiently as anybody out there these days and Century Communities is one of their competitors. Here are a few of their current models. In my opinion, you truly can't build a house much cheaper than these unless you are swinging the hammer yourself.

https://www.lgihomes.com/texas/houston/freeman-ranch/bridgeland
3/2 - 1,366 SF - Starting at $289,900. These homes have "fancy" granite that is about 1cm thick and the rest of the finishes will be basically the same as any low end apartment. LGI targets 45 days from pouring the slab to handing over the keys. Did I mention efficiency lol? Subdivision is 40 miles from downtown Houston.

https://www.centurycommunities.com/find-your-new-home/texas/houston-metro/brookshire/laurel-farms/lots/010522-3906-glory-green-drive-324887cd/
3/2 - 1,288 SF - Starting at $279,990. 40 miles from downtown. Same quality and "amenities" as above.

If you want to live closer to town...
https://www.lgihomes.com/texas/houston/wayside-village/atticus
3/2 - 1,076 SF - Starting at $240,900. This house will shave 30-45 minutes off your commute(each way) and will likely shave years off your life ... https://crimegrade.org/violent-crime-77016/ Hope you don't have kids also, because the HS that this hood is zoned to proudly graduates 75% of their students and 9% are proficient in math! https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/texas/districts/houston-independent-school-district/north-forest-high-school-147684

I am a 37yo "millennial" who is happily paying a mortgage already but I feel like the older crowd is way out of touch on this issue. Your options as a youngster today are to pay out the nose to live somewhere safe and close to work, to live somewhere in BFE to meet the safe and affordable combo, or to roll the dice on safety and live somewhere close but sketchy. Folks who bought prior to 2000 didn't really face this problem. Plenty of affordable and safe neighborhoods, close to high number of well paying jobs existed back then. Now it's a pick 2 situation for most.

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Well stated. Only thing I would add to this is take a look at the chart of avg home price vs avg wage over the last 50 or so years. It has grown from a gap to a gulf and is hurtling toward an abyss.

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A Net Full of Jello said:

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barbacoa taco said:

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and this is why younger generations get annoyed when boomers say things like "back in my day i bought a house at age 23 during my first job out of college, why can't you?"

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That is a frustrating thing to hear, for sure, because circumstances are not equal now to how they were when Boomers were in their twenties and thirties. I think that we can all agree, though, that younger millennials and older Gen Zs who are entering the workforce have different priorities than Boomers and even GenXers. They do not remember the years their parents struggle financially and used only one car or two beat up cars, didn't go on nice vacations and would settle for a trip to Six Flags every couple of years, and didn't eat out often at all. They remember the prosperous years and expect to have a similar lifestyle right out of college. And even if they don't consciously realize it, many do prioritize the latest gadgets and toys, evenings out with friends, and fun vacations. They aren't saving for an investing in the future.

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hedge said:

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Sitting in an office for 40 hours isn't working. Your probably only do 20-25 hours of actual work

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falconace said:

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A Net Full of Jello said:

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barbacoa taco said:

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and this is why younger generations get annoyed when boomers say things like "back in my day i bought a house at age 23 during my first job out of college, why can't you?"

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That is a frustrating thing to hear, for sure, because circumstances are not equal now to how they were when Boomers were in their twenties and thirties. I think that we can all agree, though, that younger millennials and older Gen Zs who are entering the workforce have different priorities than Boomers and even GenXers. They do not remember the years their parents struggle financially and used only one car or two beat up cars, didn't go on nice vacations and would settle for a trip to Six Flags every couple of years, and didn't eat out often at all. They remember the prosperous years and expect to have a similar lifestyle right out of college. And even if they don't consciously realize it, many do prioritize the latest gadgets and toys, evenings out with friends, and fun vacations. They aren't saving for an investing in the future.

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This. 100%.

I've seen it with younger folks I work with. They expect to have their parents lifestyle at the tail end of their careers, today. They don't get the concept of a starter home. They blow their disposable income like crazy and don't like saving. Many still have parents paying for aspects of their life (e.g. cell phone).

As with most things in life, getting ahead financially requires some form of self control and sacrifice. However it seems that is too hard for most in this world of instant gratification and keeping up with the joneses. You don't need to buy a house the year you get out of college. You are used to living as a poor college student. Find a cheap place to live, keep expenses low, save some money, and bust ass at work to start getting promoted and increase your income and you'll be good to go in a few years.

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rilloaggie said:

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Owlagdad said:

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I Just wonder how much a house these days might cost if it was built like a boomers first house:

Built with no 10-16 ft ceilings.
Lower pitch to roof-- no high roofs with enough attic space for another whole floor
LOL, no "office"
Linoleum and carpet-- no wood floors or laminate or tile floors, they got your floors done in one day! Just roll it out!
Tub and shower combo if you were lucky-- No "master" ( Realtors cant say that now) retreat and spa. No jets in bathtub, unless you had to bathe in same water as your brother to save money, and he farted. No tile separate shower
Slide in stove, no double ovens
No double entry doors.
Paneling!! No extra tape and mud of drywall.
Lots more insulation these days.
No three car garage. 22x22 was huge!
Fomica and not granite or quartz on counters.
no wifi wiring
no folding area in laundry room- space for washer and dryer about it.
No sodded yards and landscaping-- you did that.
And of course boomers didnt have Blackrock and Chinese buying up houses for rentals and crowding out young people.
At new wages, even for illegals, you are putting more labor money along with putting more material in a house.

Not discounting pain of kids today. Heck I couldn't afford new house. And i know what my wife would say if I asked her to live in the above house

---

I've responded to posts similar to this before. The notion that consumerism/fomo alone is driving the affordability issue is nonsense. I work in construction currently and used to work in the volume builder world. The cost of the things you've listed as upgrades are pretty negligible in the grand scheme of things. Some of the things you listed(insulation) aren't even optional due to building codes. Even ditching things like high ceilings and 3 car garages which would have a fair impact, housing costs are stupid these days. LGI probably builds homes as efficiently as anybody out there these days and Century Communities is one of their competitors. Here are a few of their current models. In my opinion, you truly can't build a house much cheaper than these unless you are swinging the hammer yourself.

https://www.lgihomes.com/texas/houston/freeman-ranch/bridgeland
3/2 - 1,366 SF - Starting at $289,900. These homes have "fancy" granite that is about 1cm thick and the rest of the finishes will be basically the same as any low end apartment. LGI targets 45 days from pouring the slab to handing over the keys. Did I mention efficiency lol? Subdivision is 40 miles from downtown Houston.

https://www.centurycommunities.com/find-your-new-home/texas/houston-metro/brookshire/laurel-farms/lots/010522-3906-glory-green-drive-324887cd/
3/2 - 1,288 SF - Starting at $279,990. 40 miles from downtown. Same quality and "amenities" as above.

If you want to live closer to town...
https://www.lgihomes.com/texas/houston/wayside-village/atticus
3/2 - 1,076 SF - Starting at $240,900. This house will shave 30-45 minutes off your commute(each way) and will likely shave years off your life ... https://crimegrade.org/violent-crime-77016/ Hope you don't have kids also, because the HS that this hood is zoned to proudly graduates 75% of their students and 9% are proficient in math! https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/texas/districts/houston-independent-school-district/north-forest-high-school-147684

I am a 37yo "millennial" who is happily paying a mortgage already but I feel like the older crowd is way out of touch on this issue. Your options as a youngster today are to pay out the nose to live somewhere safe and close to work, to live somewhere in BFE to meet the safe and affordable combo, or to roll the dice on safety and live somewhere close but sketchy. Folks who bought prior to 2000 didn't really face this problem. Plenty of affordable and safe neighborhoods, close to high number of well paying jobs existed back then. Now it's a pick 2 situation for most.

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hedge said:

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No offense but the data shows that wages have not risen at the costs of homes and that the current generation does not make enough to buy a home regardless of interest rates.

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rilloaggie said:

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Owlagdad said:

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I Just wonder how much a house these days might cost if it was built like a boomers first house:

Built with no 10-16 ft ceilings.
Lower pitch to roof-- no high roofs with enough attic space for another whole floor
LOL, no "office"
Linoleum and carpet-- no wood floors or laminate or tile floors, they got your floors done in one day! Just roll it out!
Tub and shower combo if you were lucky-- No "master" ( Realtors cant say that now) retreat and spa. No jets in bathtub, unless you had to bathe in same water as your brother to save money, and he farted. No tile separate shower
Slide in stove, no double ovens
No double entry doors.
Paneling!! No extra tape and mud of drywall.
Lots more insulation these days.
No three car garage. 22x22 was huge!
Fomica and not granite or quartz on counters.
no wifi wiring
no folding area in laundry room- space for washer and dryer about it.
No sodded yards and landscaping-- you did that.
And of course boomers didnt have Blackrock and Chinese buying up houses for rentals and crowding out young people.
At new wages, even for illegals, you are putting more labor money along with putting more material in a house.

Not discounting pain of kids today. Heck I couldn't afford new house. And i know what my wife would say if I asked her to live in the above house

---

I've responded to posts similar to this before. The notion that consumerism/fomo alone is driving the affordability issue is nonsense. I work in construction currently and used to work in the volume builder world. The cost of the things you've listed as upgrades are pretty negligible in the grand scheme of things. Some of the things you listed(insulation) aren't even optional due to building codes. Even ditching things like high ceilings and 3 car garages which would have a fair impact, housing costs are stupid these days. LGI probably builds homes as efficiently as anybody out there these days and Century Communities is one of their competitors. Here are a few of their current models. In my opinion, you truly can't build a house much cheaper than these unless you are swinging the hammer yourself.

https://www.lgihomes.com/texas/houston/freeman-ranch/bridgeland
3/2 - 1,366 SF - Starting at $289,900. These homes have "fancy" granite that is about 1cm thick and the rest of the finishes will be basically the same as any low end apartment. LGI targets 45 days from pouring the slab to handing over the keys. Did I mention efficiency lol? Subdivision is 40 miles from downtown Houston.

https://www.centurycommunities.com/find-your-new-home/texas/houston-metro/brookshire/laurel-farms/lots/010522-3906-glory-green-drive-324887cd/
3/2 - 1,288 SF - Starting at $279,990. 40 miles from downtown. Same quality and "amenities" as above.

If you want to live closer to town...
https://www.lgihomes.com/texas/houston/wayside-village/atticus
3/2 - 1,076 SF - Starting at $240,900. This house will shave 30-45 minutes off your commute(each way) and will likely shave years off your life ... https://crimegrade.org/violent-crime-77016/ Hope you don't have kids also, because the HS that this hood is zoned to proudly graduates 75% of their students and 9% are proficient in math! https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/texas/districts/houston-independent-school-district/north-forest-high-school-147684

I am a 37yo "millennial" who is happily paying a mortgage already but I feel like the older crowd is way out of touch on this issue. Your options as a youngster today are to pay out the nose to live somewhere safe and close to work, to live somewhere in BFE to meet the safe and affordable combo, or to roll the dice on safety and live somewhere close but sketchy. Folks who bought prior to 2000 didn't really face this problem. Plenty of affordable and safe neighborhoods, close to high number of well paying jobs existed back then. Now it's a pick 2 situation for most.

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Owlagdad said:

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I Just wonder how much a house these days might cost if it was built like a boomers first house:

Built with no 10-16 ft ceilings.
Lower pitch to roof-- no high roofs with enough attic space for another whole floor
LOL, no "office"
Linoleum and carpet-- no wood floors or laminate or tile floors, they got your floors done in one day! Just roll it out!
Tub and shower combo if you were lucky-- No "master" ( Realtors cant say that now) retreat and spa. No jets in bathtub, unless you had to bathe in same water as your brother to save money, and he farted. No tile separate shower
Slide in stove, no double ovens
No double entry doors.
Paneling!! No extra tape and mud of drywall.
Lots more insulation these days.
No three car garage. 22x22 was huge!
Fomica and not granite or quartz on counters.
no wifi wiring
no folding area in laundry room- space for washer and dryer about it.
No sodded yards and landscaping-- you did that.
And of course boomers didnt have Blackrock and Chinese buying up houses for rentals and crowding out young people.
At new wages, even for illegals, you are putting more labor money along with putting more material in a house.

Not discounting pain of kids today. Heck I couldn't afford new house. And i know what my wife would say if I asked her to live in the above house

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