El Gallo Blanco said:

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After the alphabet agencies and intelligence community colluded directly with big tech and media companies to rig/influence the last election...i do believe Putin when he warns us that our CIA etc. are pulling the strings and steering this country much more than we would like to believe. And obviously, Biden isn't in charge of ANYTHING. We have a shadow government.

Yet we play all high and mighty and point fingers like sleazy hypocrites.

I did find it funny that Putin actually paid some respect to Biden by not making fun of him, when he very easily and justifiably could have said "look, you're a smart man, you see how incompetent and mentally deficient he is, he is a very hard man to talk to...it is almost impossible, it's like he has no brain". I was expecting him to mock him (and us for voting him into power) mercilessly, but he took the high road.

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Are we sure nothing was edited?

Woods Ag said:

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Did you listen to the interview?

Putin makes the case that the sanctions placed upon it have not hurt them at all. They're doing fine and it's only actually hurting us.

I've always thought that about sanctions. At least those levied against another formidable country like Russia or China. If we "We will not buy any more oil from Russia" well then they jsut sell it to Brazil and Brazil sells it to us. These things don't seem to be effective in my estimation. They traded it in ruples instead of dollars.

I'm not well versed in this area, this is just how I've always questioned the power of our sanctions.

2nd thing I wanted to ask you with regard to Israel as you said you'd always support a people determining they would like to be free and self govern. Israel is really nuanced as has been stated. I support them and believe it's important we continue to do so, but to play devil's advocate to your statement what if me and my posse saddled up and came to your residence and removed you from the premises, declared ourselves a free people with the ability to govern ourselves in what was YOUR house. Are you justified in fighting to the bitter end to take it back?

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When Germany invaded Poland and went on their tear across Europe, prior to the US entering the war, would you have supported sanctions against Germany? Or would you have taken the approach of not levying any sanctions because "sanctions never work".

Sanctions can be very effective but are just one weapon to be used. Do you think we should reopen trade with Russia? Should Germany start buying gas again from Russia? Russia has definitely been impacted by sanctions. Putin is simply telling you lies.

El Gallo Blanco said:

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Correction said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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Correction said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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But my main takeaway was how stupid and trashy our politicians are in comparison. I was fine with Russia doing their own thing and for us letting them settle old border skirmishes that we have no business involving ourselves in. Now I'm actively rooting for them to take what is theirs...it's the way of the world.

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This board never ceases to amaze me. Jesus Christ.

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Care to refute? Did you watch the whole thing? We are a bunch of clowns. And I am not just talking about "the squad", or the other insanely stupid politicians continuing to wreck this country. Vast majority of republicans too.

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Refute what?

That you're impressed by Putin's obsession with Russian revisionist history and actively cheerleading their invasion of Ukraine? That you're openly "rooting" for them?

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What was "revisionist"...what did he claim happened historically, that did not happen?

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The fault lies 100% with the person who ordered an invasion into a sovereign nation.

We can sanction all we want, but the claims that it is crippling Russia may be fairy tales. I'm not sure.

Like I said before, I'm not well versed in this, just thinking about it. So Germany doesn't get their gas straight from Russia. Russia is exporting it via ship or another pipeline elsewhere and Germany is buying inflated gas prices from elsewhere as well. If all of the gas is part of the open market, which I assume it all becomes part of the market at some point, right? Russia ships another way, that country doesn't give a **** about Russian gas, but now that they're getting their gas from Russia, they don't buy as much elsewhere, and the dominos continue, right?

Does Russia make less? Probably... But when the resource you're selling is Oil and Gas, and you have huge reserves, are they really hurt by it? Often times you're not running at max production capacity so wouldn't they just turn on the spigot and produce a little more at a slight discount to make up the difference?

He's not taking Uke with or without us participating. He's not touching Poland either

I am not sure how much the U.S. should be funding Ukraine but we should be at some level. Those people who discount Putin's desire to reunite the Soviet Union are wrong. He is a power hungry despot bent on reunifying the Soviet Union despite the fact that culturally many regions are totally different and resent Russia.
Vladimir Putin: The rebuilding of 'Soviet' Russia
edit spelling

DannyDuberstein said:

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He's not taking Uke with or without us participating. He's not touching Poland either

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If the west had not intervened with any military aid and intelligence as early as we did, there is a very likely scenario where Russia would have taken Ukraine.

At worst, Uke would have become a Russian satellite once again with its people subjugated to mother Russia. At best, Uke would have been given its autonomy once again but without its most valuable lands/resources and with little or no Black Sea access.

Russia would probably not go after Poland, but Latvia, Lithuania and/or Estonia could be next. Putin wants to keep NATO off of his direct borders and protect mother Russia with satellite countries as his buffer. Sound like an Iron Curtain possibly?

txags92 said:

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AtticusMatlock said:

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That's the whole point of the US sending arms to Ukraine. Ukraine is in the way of Russia's real targets.

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And it is a hell of a lot cheaper to pay for the Ukrainians to bleed the Russians dry of men and equipment than it would be to go to the aid of NATO member Poland with our own men and equipment 10 years from now if we let Russia take what they want from Ukraine.

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You are missing a key point from Putin. Ukraine has already applied for NATO membership. US soldiers will be fighting there the day after Ukraine is admitted. The stupidity of our leadership to pursue Ukraine membership into NATO pretty much guarantees our direct involvement in this war.

You can argue that sanctions may not be THE answer, but the stopping of gas flow from Russia to Europe definitely has impacted Russia. They were getting top Ruble for that gas before Uke action. Now they have had to negotiate worse terms for their gas supply to other countries. Germany is now getting gas from other suppliers that are more friendly to the West, US being one of them.

Should the West reward Russia for taking the Uke action by keeping Russian gas flowing to the West? Aren't sanctions a natural and quite normal response. If your child acts up and becomes petulant, do you remove privileges from him/her or do you keep giving him/her toys and candy?

Just my thoughts. I know it's much more complicated than that, but sanctions are a normal and first-step reaction to address bad behavior.

For sure it's definitely a natural thing to do. My comments are only about our narrative thst it is "crippling" Russia. I don't see how that's possible in a free market with so many trade partners unless the whole world was on board and that's certainly won't be the case with Russia

Woods Ag said:

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For sure it's definitely a natural thing to do. My comments are only about our narrative thst it is "crippling" Russia. I don't see how that's possible in a free market with so many trade partners unless the whole world was on board and that's certainly won't be the case with Russia

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Sorry, I misunderstood your argument. Agree that "crippling" is maybe not correct. And, over time sanctions become less and less affective unless you are able to modify existing ones or add new ones.

911sAg said:

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So Putin cannot even take UKE but hes' going to take Poland and all of Eastern Europe? sigggh he we go again.

Military industrial complex never sleeps

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All of this stuff about the "military industrial complex" is boresome. Eisenhower coined the phrase a long time ago when the largest corporations were making massive profits when the country actually fielded a large military.

The largest military contractors line Boeing, Lockheed Martin, and Northrop are a fraction of the size and power of Apple, Microsoft, and other key tech companies that have far more economic and political power today than the military contractors do.

I get your point, but what grows tech companies? Information and data.

What grows Raytheon/ Lockheed/Blackwater/McDD/JPL, et al? War.

Two strokes of the same heartbeat.

Central Committee said:

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911sAg said:

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So Putin cannot even take UKE but hes' going to take Poland and all of Eastern Europe? sigggh he we go again.

Military industrial complex never sleeps

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All of this stuff about the "military industrial complex" is boresome. Eisenhower coined the phrase a long time ago when the largest corporations were making massive profits when the country actually fielded a large military.

The largest military contractors line Boeing, Lockheed Martin, and Northrop are a fraction of the size and power of Apple, Microsoft, and other key tech companies that have far more economic and political power today than the military contractors do.

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You are forgetting the other important aspect, insider trading.

Congress critters know when bills passed for spending on military are going to happen. They buy options and stocks in the 2-3 major Defense contractors. Bill passes. Those companies stocks go to the moon. Congress critters line their pockets. There is a reason why people making 2-400k a year have net worths in the 10s of Millions if not more even though they live in some of the most expensive areas on in the country.

Spoken of earlier but should be repeated, there is a stark contrast with Putin's interview with Tucker and Biden's press conference regarding the special counsel report. Without raising his voice, losing his temper or making threatening hand/punctate gestures, Putin

• went over Russian history with dates/names going back to 862;
• discussed the history of Ukraine from the Russian Revolution to date, including the past interrelationships of Ukrainian and Russian economies;
• discussed Ukrainian glorification of Nazis and Neo-Nazis;
• stated that with the fall of the Soviet Union, Russians expected to be welcomed by the West;
• revealed Russia enquired of Clinton if Russia could join Nato (1991?);
• reviewed Russia's proposal for an international missile defense initiative in the face of U.S. missile defense initiative;
• discussed a number of geopolitical/economic issues, including GDP, trade, currency (revealing that before sanctions over 1/3 Russian trade was done in dollars);
• .......

Biden, by contrast, demonstrated "....his dementia is getting worse...". Interestingly, Putin, in the interview with Tucker, stated that George W. Bush had been portrayed by the media as a Country Boy; however, Putin stated that was not an accurate characterization.
Just imagine for a moment, if Bush had behaved like Biden routinely does one single time.....

Look at the 10 year stock performance for Boeing, Lockheed and Northrop. Compare to Apple, Amazon. and the other large tech companies. Congress is making huge insider trading profits, but it is not on defense contractors. It is on companies like Apple and Amazon.

I stand by my point that the mythical military industrial complex is not remotely as strong as it was.

txags92 said:

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AtticusMatlock said:

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That's the whole point of the US sending arms to Ukraine. Ukraine is in the way of Russia's real targets.

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And it is a hell of a lot cheaper to pay for the Ukrainians to bleed the Russians dry of men and equipment than it would be to go to the aid of NATO member Poland with our own men and equipment 10 years from now if we let Russia take what they want from Ukraine.

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The cheapest thing is to drill like crazy and stop pushing electric bull*****

Bring oil back down to $30/bbl and bankrupt his ass.

You know, the Trump model.

Central Committee said:

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Look at the 10 year stock performance for Boeing, Lockheed and Northrop. Compare to Apple, Amazon. and the other large tech companies. Congress is making huge insider trading profits, but it is not on defense contractors. It is on companies like Apple and Amazon.

I stand by my point that the mythical military industrial complex is not remotely as strong as it was.

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It isn't a buy and hold strategy it is a timing strategy. The same could be said for big Pharma. Spikes are much more predictable based on legislative policy. Play options around that and you win and get out.

stallion6 said:

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txags92 said:

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AtticusMatlock said:

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That's the whole point of the US sending arms to Ukraine. Ukraine is in the way of Russia's real targets.

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And it is a hell of a lot cheaper to pay for the Ukrainians to bleed the Russians dry of men and equipment than it would be to go to the aid of NATO member Poland with our own men and equipment 10 years from now if we let Russia take what they want from Ukraine.

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You are missing a key point from Putin. Ukraine has already applied for NATO membership. US soldiers will be fighting there the day after Ukraine is admitted. The stupidity of our leadership to pursue Ukraine membership into NATO pretty much guarantees our direct involvement in this war.

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NATO membership is not open to counties already engaged in conflict. They would have to join during a ceasefire or peace. Then there's zero chance Putin attacks again and triggers article 5.

stallion6 said:

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txags92 said:

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AtticusMatlock said:

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That's the whole point of the US sending arms to Ukraine. Ukraine is in the way of Russia's real targets.

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And it is a hell of a lot cheaper to pay for the Ukrainians to bleed the Russians dry of men and equipment than it would be to go to the aid of NATO member Poland with our own men and equipment 10 years from now if we let Russia take what they want from Ukraine.

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You are missing a key point from Putin. Ukraine has already applied for NATO membership. US soldiers will be fighting there the day after Ukraine is admitted. The stupidity of our leadership to pursue Ukraine membership into NATO pretty much guarantees our direct involvement in this war.

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They won't be joining while they are actively at war. I am pretty sure that violates NATO bylaws.

Woods Ag said:

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For sure it's definitely a natural thing to do. My comments are only about our narrative thst it is "crippling" Russia. I don't see how that's possible in a free market with so many trade partners unless the whole world was on board and that's certainly won't be the case with Russia

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I don't think the sanctions have crippled their economy as a whole yet, but they have absolutely put the hurt on their ability to replace the top end equipment they are losing at an alarming rate. What I meant about the Russian economy getting crippled was that they have lost access to the western companies and expertise that were helping them develop their resources. They will never again have Western Europe as a captive energy market. Europe may eventually go back to buying from them, but the facilities they are building will make sure they are able to buy from whoever they want, not just Russia.

They have also killed or severely wounded hundreds of thousands of men in their prime working years, and lost over a million of the their best and brightest who fled the country to avoid the war and aren't coming back. They were already in a demographic crisis with a severely unhealthy population, and they worsened that immeasurably with this war against Ukraine and the change in their economic relationships with the world. It will still take time to ultimately see the true impact their economy, but it will show up over the next few years.

Science Denier said:

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txags92 said:

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AtticusMatlock said:

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That's the whole point of the US sending arms to Ukraine. Ukraine is in the way of Russia's real targets.

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And it is a hell of a lot cheaper to pay for the Ukrainians to bleed the Russians dry of men and equipment than it would be to go to the aid of NATO member Poland with our own men and equipment 10 years from now if we let Russia take what they want from Ukraine.

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The cheapest thing is to drill like crazy and stop pushing electric bull*****

Bring oil back down to $30/bbl and bankrupt his ass.

You know, the Trump model.

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Agree.

richardag said:

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I am not sure how much the U.S. should be funding Ukraine but we should be at some level. Those people who discount Putin's desire to reunite the Soviet Union are wrong. He is a power hungry despot bent on reunifying the Soviet Union despite the fact that culturally many regions are totally different and resent Russia.
Vladimir Putin: The rebuilding of 'Soviet' Russia
edit spelling

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I keep hearing he wants to reconstitute the Soviet Union. That is patently false. Note there is nothing in the BBC article that ties anything he has said or done to that conclusion either. These are claims from Putin dissidents and foreign Intel sources that, frankly, have a **** track record.

The only factual thing referenced is the comment Putin made regarding the "disintegration of the Soviet Union was a "geopolitical catastrophe"". He did actually say those words in a speech. He said that tens of millions of Russian citizens and fellow countrymen found themselves outside Russian territory. This led to a sense of loss and displacement among the affected population.

He also argued in the same speech that the collapse had a destabilizing effect on Russia itself, as it faced internal challenges such as separatist movements and economic turmoil. He also expressed concerns about the loss of international influence and the need to rebuild Russia's position in the world.

All these references are to RUSSIA and RUSSIANS; not the Soviet Union.

Putin has explicitly rejected the premise of reforming or reuniting the Soviet Union. In a 2011 interview with the Russian state-run news channel RT, Putin stated that he had no desire to restore the Soviet Union, saying, "Whoever misses the Soviet Union has no heart. Whoever wants to restore it has no brain."

I have used two AI tools now; and I and they can find no references to any discussions where Putin has ever expressed a desire to re-constitute the Soviet Union.

Wanting a strong "historical" Russia; is not the same as restoring the Soviet Union.

You can argue the merits of that; but this constant "he wants to recreate the USSR" so we can launder more money thru the Ukraine just gets old and doesn't hold water.

The two greatest parting remarks by any two Presidents were GW's farewell and Ike's farewell. They should be required reading for everyone. You should have to be able to recite both before you can get a job in government like we all used to do with the Gettysburg Address, Declaration of Independence, Preamble to the Constitution, etc.

Can't be blue starred enough.

japantiger said:

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richardag said:

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I am not sure how much the U.S. should be funding Ukraine but we should be at some level. Those people who discount Putin's desire to reunite the Soviet Union are wrong. He is a power hungry despot bent on reunifying the Soviet Union despite the fact that culturally many regions are totally different and resent Russia.
Vladimir Putin: The rebuilding of 'Soviet' Russia
edit spelling

---

I keep hearing he wants to reconstitute the Soviet Union. That is patently false. Note there is nothing in the BBC article that ties anything he has said or done to that conclusion either. These are claims from Putin dissidents and foreign Intel sources that, frankly, have a **** track record.

The only factual thing referenced is the comment Putin made regarding the "disintegration of the Soviet Union was a "geopolitical catastrophe"". He did actually say those words in a speech. He said that tens of millions of Russian citizens and fellow countrymen found themselves outside Russian territory. This led to a sense of loss and displacement among the affected population.

He also argued in the same speech that the collapse had a destabilizing effect on Russia itself, as it faced internal challenges such as separatist movements and economic turmoil. He also expressed concerns about the loss of international influence and the need to rebuild Russia's position in the world.

All these references are to RUSSIA and RUSSIANS; not the Soviet Union.

Putin has explicitly rejected the premise of reforming or reuniting the Soviet Union. In a 2011 interview with the Russian state-run news channel RT, Putin stated that he had no desire to restore the Soviet Union, saying, "Whoever misses the Soviet Union has no heart. Whoever wants to restore it has no brain."

I have used two AI tools now; and I and they can find no references to any discussions where Putin has ever expressed a desire to re-constitute the Soviet Union.

Wanting a strong "historical" Russia; is not the same as restoring the Soviet Union.

You can argue the merits of that; but this constant "he wants to recreate the USSR" so we can launder more money thru the Ukraine just gets old and doesn't hold water.

The two greatest parting remarks by any two Presidents were GW's farewell and Ike's farewell. They should be required reading for everyone. You should have to be able to recite both before you can get a job in government like we all used to do with the Gettysburg Address, Declaration of Independence, Preamble to the Constitution, etc.

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He doesn't want to restore the "Soviet Union", he just wants all of the lands that were historically a part of it united under Mother Russia. Very little difference between the two ideas other than the words used to express it.

But I agree with you, the people tying this war to money laundering or whatever are just dumb. It had nothing to do with that and everything to do with Putin wanting a puppet government between him and NATO.

txags92 said:

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japantiger said:

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richardag said:

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I am not sure how much the U.S. should be funding Ukraine but we should be at some level. Those people who discount Putin's desire to reunite the Soviet Union are wrong. He is a power hungry despot bent on reunifying the Soviet Union despite the fact that culturally many regions are totally different and resent Russia.
Vladimir Putin: The rebuilding of 'Soviet' Russia
edit spelling

---

I keep hearing he wants to reconstitute the Soviet Union. That is patently false. Note there is nothing in the BBC article that ties anything he has said or done to that conclusion either. These are claims from Putin dissidents and foreign Intel sources that, frankly, have a **** track record.

The only factual thing referenced is the comment Putin made regarding the "disintegration of the Soviet Union was a "geopolitical catastrophe"". He did actually say those words in a speech. He said that tens of millions of Russian citizens and fellow countrymen found themselves outside Russian territory. This led to a sense of loss and displacement among the affected population.

He also argued in the same speech that the collapse had a destabilizing effect on Russia itself, as it faced internal challenges such as separatist movements and economic turmoil. He also expressed concerns about the loss of international influence and the need to rebuild Russia's position in the world.

All these references are to RUSSIA and RUSSIANS; not the Soviet Union.

Putin has explicitly rejected the premise of reforming or reuniting the Soviet Union. In a 2011 interview with the Russian state-run news channel RT, Putin stated that he had no desire to restore the Soviet Union, saying, "Whoever misses the Soviet Union has no heart. Whoever wants to restore it has no brain."

I have used two AI tools now; and I and they can find no references to any discussions where Putin has ever expressed a desire to re-constitute the Soviet Union.

Wanting a strong "historical" Russia; is not the same as restoring the Soviet Union.

You can argue the merits of that; but this constant "he wants to recreate the USSR" so we can launder more money thru the Ukraine just gets old and doesn't hold water.

The two greatest parting remarks by any two Presidents were GW's farewell and Ike's farewell. They should be required reading for everyone. You should have to be able to recite both before you can get a job in government like we all used to do with the Gettysburg Address, Declaration of Independence, Preamble to the Constitution, etc.

---

He doesn't want to restore the "Soviet Union", he just wants all of the lands that were historically a part of it united under Mother Russia. Very little difference between the two ideas other than the words used to express it.

But I agree with you, the people tying this war to money laundering or whatever are just dumb. It had nothing to do with that and everything to do with Putin wanting a puppet government between him and NATO.

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Bidens role in triggering Putin this time in the proxy war is related to his extended money laundering with Russians and Ukrainians. And hunter compromat.

japantiger said:

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richardag said:

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I am not sure how much the U.S. should be funding Ukraine but we should be at some level. Those people who discount Putin's desire to reunite the Soviet Union are wrong. He is a power hungry despot bent on reunifying the Soviet Union despite the fact that culturally many regions are totally different and resent Russia.
Vladimir Putin: The rebuilding of 'Soviet' Russia
edit spelling

---

I keep hearing he wants to reconstitute the Soviet Union. That is patently false. Note there is nothing in the BBC article that ties anything he has said or done to that conclusion either. These are claims from Putin dissidents and foreign Intel sources that, frankly, have a **** track record.

The only factual thing referenced is the comment Putin made regarding the "disintegration of the Soviet Union was a "geopolitical catastrophe"". He did actually say those words in a speech. He said that tens of millions of Russian citizens and fellow countrymen found themselves outside Russian territory. This led to a sense of loss and displacement among the affected population.

He also argued in the same speech that the collapse had a destabilizing effect on Russia itself, as it faced internal challenges such as separatist movements and economic turmoil. He also expressed concerns about the loss of international influence and the need to rebuild Russia's position in the world.

All these references are to RUSSIA and RUSSIANS; not the Soviet Union.

Putin has explicitly rejected the premise of reforming or reuniting the Soviet Union. In a 2011 interview with the Russian state-run news channel RT, Putin stated that he had no desire to restore the Soviet Union, saying, "Whoever misses the Soviet Union has no heart. Whoever wants to restore it has no brain."

I have used two AI tools now; and I and they can find no references to any discussions where Putin has ever expressed a desire to re-constitute the Soviet Union.

Wanting a strong "historical" Russia; is not the same as restoring the Soviet Union.

You can argue the merits of that; but this constant "he wants to recreate the USSR" so we can launder more money thru the Ukraine just gets old and doesn't hold water.

The two greatest parting remarks by any two Presidents were GW's farewell and Ike's farewell. They should be required reading for everyone. You should have to be able to recite both before you can get a job in government like we all used to do with the Gettysburg Address, Declaration of Independence, Preamble to the Constitution, etc.

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The reason states engage in propaganda is that some people fall for it.

First off, let's get past the smoke screen of Soviet Union/Russia. Saying that Putin wants to restore the Russian Empire isn't any better than saying that Putin wants to restore the borders of the Soviet Union. In both cases, Ukraine and the Baltics are controlled by Moscow, but the Russian Empire even included most of Poland. So, if you're fine with Putin restoring the Russian Empire, then you are for him obliterating the Baltics and Poland.

Here is what Putin said to a group of young Russians in June of 2022:

Quote:

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Many observers quickly picked up on one of Putin's more provocative lines, in which he compared himself to Peter the Great, Russia's modernizing tsar and the founder of St. Petersburg Putin's own birthplace who came to power in the late 17th century.

"Peter the Great waged the Great Northern War for 21 years," a relaxed and apparently self-satisfied Putin said. "On the face of it, he was at war with Sweden taking something away from it… He was not taking away anything, he was returning. This is how it was."

It didn't matter that European countries didn't recognize Peter the Great's seizure of territory by force, Putin added.

"When he founded the new capital, none of the European countries recognized this territory as part of Russia; everyone recognized it as part of Sweden," Putin said. "However, from time immemorial, the Slavs lived there along with the Finno-Ugric peoples, and this territory was under Russia's control. The same is true of the western direction, Narva and his first campaigns. Why would he go there? He was returning and reinforcing, that is what he was doing."

Alluding directly to his own invasion of Ukraine, Putin added: "Clearly, it fell to our lot to return and reinforce as well."

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link

It's amazing that people will defend this garbage. Here's what Putin said right on the eve of the invasion

Quote:

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As Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered troops into two rebel-held regions in eastern Ukraine late Monday night, recognizing the regions as independent, he returned to a familiar argument that the Kremlin has pushed for years: that Ukraine's claim to statehood is entirely baseless. In a televised address to the nation, Putin explicitly denied that Ukraine had ever had "real statehood," and said the country was an integral part of Russia's "own history, culture, spiritual space."

Putin's speech, which went on for nearly an hour, was a new twist in the long-running battle to define Ukraine's place in the world. In it, Putin set out his belief more forcefully than ever before that Ukraine is intrinsically Russian, that its three decades as a nation-state have been incoherent, and that the country owes its existence to a series of mistakes by bumbling Soviet leaders. (He made a series of similar arguments in an essay published last summer.)

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link

Yet, we still have people denying Putin's imperialist ambitions, and validating his fictional version of history.

tremble said:

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ttu_85 said:

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Around the 30 minute mark it get very interesting. Russia in NATO ???? It was brought up.

Note I will not pass judgement just point out particularly interesting segments

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Never would have worked. Far too different world views.

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Except that not letting them in kept them isolated militarily, geopolitically, and economically, reinforced their paranoia that NATO was still out to get them and pushed them deeper into the arms of belligerent Chinese communists and helped create a coalition of BRICS which will soon deal a major blow to the value of the US dollar globally and will accelerate inflation.

It also contributed significantly to their view that they needed strategic land in Ukraine contributing to their idea that war was a necessity.


Yeah....
It was totally the right call to disregard the offer of NATO membership out of hand and tell them to "f off"

Yeah....looks that way to me.

txags92 said:

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japantiger said:

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richardag said:

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I am not sure how much the U.S. should be funding Ukraine but we should be at some level. Those people who discount Putin's desire to reunite the Soviet Union are wrong. He is a power hungry despot bent on reunifying the Soviet Union despite the fact that culturally many regions are totally different and resent Russia.
Vladimir Putin: The rebuilding of 'Soviet' Russia
edit spelling

---

I keep hearing he wants to reconstitute the Soviet Union. That is patently false. Note there is nothing in the BBC article that ties anything he has said or done to that conclusion either. These are claims from Putin dissidents and foreign Intel sources that, frankly, have a **** track record.

The only factual thing referenced is the comment Putin made regarding the "disintegration of the Soviet Union was a "geopolitical catastrophe"". He did actually say those words in a speech. He said that tens of millions of Russian citizens and fellow countrymen found themselves outside Russian territory. This led to a sense of loss and displacement among the affected population.

He also argued in the same speech that the collapse had a destabilizing effect on Russia itself, as it faced internal challenges such as separatist movements and economic turmoil. He also expressed concerns about the loss of international influence and the need to rebuild Russia's position in the world.

All these references are to RUSSIA and RUSSIANS; not the Soviet Union.

Putin has explicitly rejected the premise of reforming or reuniting the Soviet Union. In a 2011 interview with the Russian state-run news channel RT, Putin stated that he had no desire to restore the Soviet Union, saying, "Whoever misses the Soviet Union has no heart. Whoever wants to restore it has no brain."

I have used two AI tools now; and I and they can find no references to any discussions where Putin has ever expressed a desire to re-constitute the Soviet Union.

Wanting a strong "historical" Russia; is not the same as restoring the Soviet Union.

You can argue the merits of that; but this constant "he wants to recreate the USSR" so we can launder more money thru the Ukraine just gets old and doesn't hold water.

The two greatest parting remarks by any two Presidents were GW's farewell and Ike's farewell. They should be required reading for everyone. You should have to be able to recite both before you can get a job in government like we all used to do with the Gettysburg Address, Declaration of Independence, Preamble to the Constitution, etc.

---

He doesn't want to restore the "Soviet Union", he just wants all of the lands that were historically a part of it united under Mother Russia. Very little difference between the two ideas other than the words used to express it.

But I agree with you, the people tying this war to money laundering or whatever are just dumb. It had nothing to do with that and everything to do with Putin wanting a puppet government between him and NATO.

---

The US involvement is 100% about money laundering. Ukraine is one of the most corrupt countries and the latest records and audits show ridiculous amounts of 'aid' being lost. With politicians wanting more and more money sent and pitching thatbit is needed so quickly that time can't be taken to put proper oversight in place.....really?

The people denying that the US' involvement has nothing to do with money laundering have not been paying attention.

Plenty of info has been posted here to that effect that at this point it has been so well established that even the war hawk and Zelinski jock sniffers admit that "yeah....there is a bug money laundering operation going on...but it's worth it to stack Russian bodies"

There should be more focus on the economic impacts (especially on the U.S. Dollar) of the Ukraine war and impact on cryptocurrency generally, and Bitcoin, specifically.

It is about money laundering for us. Ukraine has our politicians by the balls bc of it. For Russia it was about putting a cushion between them and NATO.

RFK, Jr. on this topic.

Robert Kennedy explains U.S. history regarding Russian and Ukraine and why Putin has a right to be angry, all in less than 90 seconds.pic.twitter.com/PimxYsgn8g

— Citizen Free Press (@CitizenFreePres) February 10, 2024

Not sure if I trust RFK's evaluation. Will need to research.

Tucker speaks about the interview. About 20 minutes.

Tucker's first discussion since the Vladimir Putin interview. pic.twitter.com/t4O4NRYSV1

— Tucker Carlson (@TuckerCarlson) February 12, 2024

It's pretty good.