twk said:

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I'm glad Carlson did the interview, but it's amazing how gullible some of you are.

Putin's version of history has been discussed on this board before. This is nothing new. The fact that he can ramble on with this propaganda for an extended period of time indicates only that he's more mentally competent than our president, but that's an extremely low bar to clear. Let's just say that his version of a number of historical points is "debatable."

He's also got some of you fooled on the economy. He's spending at apocalyptic levels in order to ramp up military production. This boosts GDP, but when the products you are building get blown up on the battlefield, that's not really a boost to your economy. The application of sanctions by the US and Europe has always been half-hearted because the Europeans have been dependent upon Russia for energy, and Biden doesn't want Russian oil off the market for fear of what it would do to gas prices, so, no, sanctions have not crippled Russia. The tepid sanctions imposed so far have had an effect, but nothing like the scale of problems cause by Russia's demographic problem, which the war has exacerbated in a big way, through battlefield casualties and emigration.

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How are we "gullible"? He gave his point of view, and some are discussing it, it's okay.

Ag87H2O said:

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BlueTaze said:

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Ukraine is a money laundering op. No oversight or controls on 100s of billions of taxpayer funds in "aide". Not hard at all to cyphon off 100s of millions and set up dozens of DC politicians for life.

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And it started well before the current war. That's why the Democrats went berserk when Trump started nosing around and asking questions. He was messing with their playpen.

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I would not call myself a Ukraine or Russia expert. I did spend extensive time in both doing business.

I also recommended my company get out of both of them. On a scale of "this is place is nice" to "WTF did I just see"; both are somewhere to the right of "WTF"

I am always reminded of the Star Wars meme.

On the Putin Sanctions.. That was my question. I want to see the economic stats of what he's saying. The loss of trade on the dollar and the increase on the ruple. He is definitely selling his stuff at a discount. That's simple economics and you are definitely correct - their russian population is losing ground to their muslim population. Much like whites in the country are losing their dominant position in America to latinos. Is what it is, I love me some latinos. Latino women, latino food, latino tequila, latino parties.. I kid of course

Thank you for your response on that. There's so much **** to keep up with nowadays to be up on the goings-on that I simply can't keep up with it all and also be a functioning dad, husband, employee.

On Israel - I'm talking about the formation of Israel as a state in 1948 from Palestinian lands (historical Jewish lands and even more historical arab/Palestinian or whatever people-group Aaron conquered). Anyways, if we just stay with the last 75 years. It was palestine land that Israel was formed out of and eventually they were moved off of, correct? II imagine that I'd be pretty pissed if that happened to me.

Of course not. I'd like to see the data to back it up, now, though.

As I said before, I'm more interested in how well sanctions work against another global power. It's plausible to me that they hurt us as much or more in the end. He definitely has to take a discount on his goods sold and pay a premium on stuff he buys, but how much? 10%? If what you are selling is oil and you have a ton of it at your disposal if he ramps up production he covers any losses he might experience.

Woods Ag said:

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Did you listen to the interview?

Putin makes the case that the sanctions placed upon it have not hurt them at all. They're doing fine and it's only actually hurting us.

I've always thought that about sanctions. At least those levied against another formidable country like Russia or China. If we "We will not buy any more oil from Russia" well then they jsut sell it to Brazil and Brazil sells it to us. These things don't seem to be effective in my estimation. They traded it in ruples instead of dollars.

I'm not well versed in this area, this is just how I've always questioned the power of our sanctions.

2nd thing I wanted to ask you with regard to Israel as you said you'd always support a people determining they would like to be free and self govern. Israel is really nuanced as has been stated. I support them and believe it's important we continue to do so, but to play devil's advocate to your statement what if me and my posse saddled up and came to your residence and removed you from the premises, declared ourselves a free people with the ability to govern ourselves in what was YOUR house. Are you justified in fighting to the bitter end to take it back?

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Our trade level with Russia was surprisingly low even before the war. We don't directly depend on them for anything critical, and our GDP keeps going up despite sanctions.

Lies told with confidence by ex KGB are still lies.

Woods Ag said:

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I don't disagree with what you're saying. I'm certainly grateful for the French support during our fight for independence.

I support a free Ukraine. I think their freedom could have been maintained another way, though.

More importantly, the reason for our support is where I take issue. We aren't defending Ukraine because we feel morally obligated to do so. We're paying for their defense because 1.) they've lured very powerful people in the US into bed and lined their pockets for years. They set us up. They knew exactly what they were doing and they executed it so that our leaders are in their pockets at the risk of exposure. 2.) our MIC makes a fortune doing so and that also lines the pockets of those very powerful people.

Nothing that happens over there benefits you or me or the rest of the American public, but we're going to pay for it. Our only conciliation is that we get to believe "we're doing the right thing" based on our world view. Our kids kids are so deeply in debt before they are even born, but we did the right thing. Not only are we paying for it, your tax dollars are going directly into the pockets of the people that take jets over to WEF meetings as they decide that you and me shouldn't grow our own food, we shouldn't eat meat, we shouldn't have vehicles. It's just furthering the divide between the elites and me and you. They get more powerful, we get more poor.

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Well said

twk said:

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I'm glad Carlson did the interview, but it's amazing how gullible some of you are.

Putin's version of history has been discussed on this board before. This is nothing new. The fact that he can ramble on with this propaganda for an extended period of time indicates only that he's more mentally competent than our president, but that's an extremely low bar to clear. Let's just say that his version of a number of historical points is "debatable."

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First, he's more mentally competent and knowledgeable than the vast vast majority of politicians in this country. To even try to debate that would be laughable.

Second, where did he get the history wrong? What did he make up that didn't really happen. Got any specifics?

Our trade directly isn't, but our sanctions forbid them from trading oil in US dollars, right? It's supposed to keep them from trading with anyone is my understanding.

Teslag said:

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twk said:

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I'm glad Carlson did the interview, but it's amazing how gullible some of you are.

Putin's version of history has been discussed on this board before. This is nothing new. The fact that he can ramble on with this propaganda for an extended period of time indicates only that he's more mentally competent than our president, but that's an extremely low bar to clear. Let's just say that his version of a number of historical points is "debatable."

He's also got some of you fooled on the economy. He's spending at apocalyptic levels in order to ramp up military production. This boosts GDP, but when the products you are building get blown up on the battlefield, that's not really a boost to your economy. The application of sanctions by the US and Europe has always been half-hearted because the Europeans have been dependent upon Russia for energy, and Biden doesn't want Russian oil off the market for fear of what it would do to gas prices, so, no, sanctions have not crippled Russia. The tepid sanctions imposed so far have had an effect, but nothing like the scale of problems cause by Russia's demographic problem, which the war has exacerbated in a big way, through battlefield casualties and emigration.

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Who's fault do you think this is? And be specific, if you can.

Correction said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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Correction said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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But my main takeaway was how stupid and trashy our politicians are in comparison. I was fine with Russia doing their own thing and for us letting them settle old border skirmishes that we have no business involving ourselves in. Now I'm actively rooting for them to take what is theirs...it's the way of the world.

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This board never ceases to amaze me. Jesus Christ.

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Care to refute? Did you watch the whole thing? We are a bunch of clowns. And I am not just talking about "the squad", or the other insanely stupid politicians continuing to wreck this country. Vast majority of republicans too.

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Refute what?

That you're impressed by Putin's obsession with Russian revisionist history and actively cheerleading their invasion of Ukraine? That you're openly "rooting" for them?

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What was "revisionist"...what did he claim happened historically, that did not happen?

I don't know specifics, but you don't have to make anything up you just have to tell the story in a way that best suits you. The way you tell a story and what you choose to leave in and take out can make all the difference.

I don't know the history, but I thoroughly enjoyed listening to his telling of it. At least his version of events.

Woods Ag said:

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On the Putin Sanctions.. That was my question. I want to see the economic stats of what he's saying. The loss of trade on the dollar and the increase on the ruple. He is definitely selling his stuff at a discount. That's simple economics and you are definitely correct - their russian population is losing ground to their muslim population. Much like whites in the country are losing their dominant position in America to latinos. Is what it is, I love me some latinos. Latino women, latino food, latino tequila, latino parties..

Thank you for your response on that. There's so much **** to keep up with nowadays to be up on the goings-on that I simply can't keep up with it all and also be a functioning dad, husband, employee.

On Israel - I'm talking about the formation of Israel as a state in 1948 from Palestinian lands (historical Jewish lands and even more historical arab/Palestinian or whatever people-group Aaron conquered). Anyways, if we just stay with the last 75 years. It was palestine land that Israel was formed out of and eventually they were moved off of, correct? II imagine that I'd be pretty pissed if that happened to me.

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Depends on whose map you look at. So many of the maps have been revised post-history to claim that this place or that place was originally "Palestine", when there was never an actual country by that name. Most of the land was controlled by the British and the attempt was made to allot each side their own state. The Jews had actually bought quite a bit of the land they occupied fair and square from Arabs willing to sell it to them. For any moment in history where you look, you can find a time when this parcel was arab controlled or that one was jewish controlled and try to use that as "point zero" where everything after that is an illegitimate land grab by the other side. But the reality is that the borders have been largely stagnant for the last 50 years from the 1973 Yom Kippur war. At various times from probably 1975 to the mid-2000s, Israel would have gladly given some land back to the groups negotiating on behalf of the palestinians in return for peace and did so several times. But those efforts have stalled because there is no longer a political force in the palestinian realm that is willing to recognize the right for Israel to exist. All of the parties whom they would be forced to negotiate with have repeatedly dedicated themselves to the complete destruction of Israel. So while 75 years ago, some of the land that was supposed to be arab controlled is now owned by Israel, most of it was captured as part of defensive wars that Israel has been forced to fight simply to ensure their own survival. And the Israelis have no negotiating partner with which they can reach a mutually agreed solution. So they defend themselves for their very right to exist. What else can they do?

I don't know. As far as I know which is about what you stated I fully support Israel to whip as much ass as they need to to ensure their existence and keep the savages at bay.

GoodBullShark said:

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ttu_85 said:

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Nanomachines son said:

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ttu_85 said:

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Nanomachines son said:

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Watching this Putin interview I came away with the fact that I hate modern American politics. Putin knows his nation's history and we should expect that from our leaders. We used to have this and we used to have leaders who knew history dating back to Jamestown and back into England and Europe.

Regardless of Putin's motivations or lies, you cannot say he has not studied history and geopolitics extensively. We need to expect this and demand it from our own leaders.

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Yes but Putin's takes this to entire differently level. Its his religion- the way he recounted Russian history and Poland's invention in that 'holy' history. He blames 13th C Poland for the Ukrainian mess of today. That requires a passion most folk just dont have; dangerous levels of it. The sooner this dude exits this world the better off it will be.

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We should demand this level of passion from our leaders. Why is this a bad thing? He's not blaming Poland at all, he used all of the historical context to show why those lands belonged to Russia, not that it was all Poland's fault. Our leaders should have an autistic level of of knowledge about US history going back to Jamestown. They should know the reasons and causes for every major conflict and land acquisition. They should know our grievances or claims to specific areas of land. They should know why people made the decisions they did within the historical context of the time period.

This is not dangerous at all. This is what good leaders do. This place constantly harps on how those who forget history are doomed to repeat it yet when confronted by a foreign adversary who has this level of knowledge, it is now condemned. I don't get it, either knowledge of history is a good thing or it is bad. Which is it?

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Uh, you could here it in his tone. And his expression-- as controlled as it was. He loathes Poland. A blind man could see it.

Oh and your last sentence. You think that knowledge and passion for history is binary ?-- yes [A good Thing] or no [bad thing] only? Here you go-- a yes/no 'either knowledge of history is a good thing or it is bad. Which is it?

"Well, I think the South should succeed and then use its new found industry and tech to burn NY and Chicago to the ground as they did to Atlanta." Is this hyperbolic example a "good thing or is it bad. Which is it"

or

"Yeah the Civil War was awful but Sherman was right to take out Atlanta as an industrial center in order to shorten the war and save lives. We need to learn from history and move on."

Your statement: I don't get it, either knowledge of history is a good thing or it is bad. Which is it?
is so wrong because its not a binary question nor does it have binary answers. Its about degrees of knowledge and perspective which have a million variations ESPECIALLY when merged to human emotion.

I think your entire premise is wrong.

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Some of you are really something else. The liberals holding on to their narratives is embarrassing. Poland? Really? He says specifically that he doesn't give a **** about Poland.

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Ha. Can tell you didn't listen to the whole thing, If you had, you wouldn't have written this drivel. He clearly cares. Since you missed it; Its about 4 minutes or so into his history lesson beginning in 862 AD.

And me a liberal? Its clear you dont pay detailed attention to much of anything.

El Gallo Blanco said:

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Correction said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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Correction said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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But my main takeaway was how stupid and trashy our politicians are in comparison. I was fine with Russia doing their own thing and for us letting them settle old border skirmishes that we have no business involving ourselves in. Now I'm actively rooting for them to take what is theirs...it's the way of the world.

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This board never ceases to amaze me. Jesus Christ.

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Care to refute? Did you watch the whole thing? We are a bunch of clowns. And I am not just talking about "the squad", or the other insanely stupid politicians continuing to wreck this country. Vast majority of republicans too.

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Refute what?

That you're impressed by Putin's obsession with Russian revisionist history and actively cheerleading their invasion of Ukraine? That you're openly "rooting" for them?

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What was "revisionist"...what did he claim happened historically, that did not happen?

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He literally said WWII was caused by Poland "forcing" Hitler to invade by not being willing to give up Gdansk/Danzig.

Weird he didn't mention the USSR also invading Poland from the East.

It's self-serving bull**** analogy for why he had no choice but to invade Ukraine for their own good.

For God's sake, this man "promises" he has no intention of invading Poland and y'all lap it up. In February 2022, he was swearing he had no intentions to invade Ukraine and useful idiots were saying the US was fear-mongering and trying to start a war.

Rapier108 said:

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Mike Hancho said:

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Rapier108 said:

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No surprise that Putin can't get over stuff that happened to Russia 1000+ years ago.

As Dr. Dunning taught in his Russian history class, Russians have the biggest case of victim mentality of any society on Earth. They simply cannot let go of any wrong, perceived or not, that Russia has suffered. In their minds, they are always the victim of some injustice that needs to be righted, but at the same time, no amount of righting is ever enough.

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yep, its amazing how many people keep falling for putins grift. He's a short manlet with an inferiority complex who parades around as a badass

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Hedge, as usual you completely missed the point.

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Im not hedge, please explain what i missed?

MouthBQ98 said:

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Putin can use wars to reestablish Russian sovereignty or prestige pretty much almost endlessly to keep his population focused on that matter and off of any dissatisfaction they might feel. It is something Russia is culturally used to.

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The problem is they are running out of fighting age men. Their demographic problem is terminal at this point and why they attacked when they did. They will cease to have a military capable of offensive endeavors 10 years from now.

What about us? I imagine we face a similar fate with the drop in birth rates, the LGBTQ-A1 sauce group and its infiltration into the military, and the general lack of patriotism facing the US. A lot of young people have a "it's not my problem" mentality and more of a globalist viewpoint. Maybe a slightly longer timetable...

I think that is why they are doing it now. It was now or never.

El Gallo Blanco said:

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Correction said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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Correction said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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But my main takeaway was how stupid and trashy our politicians are in comparison. I was fine with Russia doing their own thing and for us letting them settle old border skirmishes that we have no business involving ourselves in. Now I'm actively rooting for them to take what is theirs...it's the way of the world.

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This board never ceases to amaze me. Jesus Christ.

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Care to refute? Did you watch the whole thing? We are a bunch of clowns. And I am not just talking about "the squad", or the other insanely stupid politicians continuing to wreck this country. Vast majority of republicans too.

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Refute what?

That you're impressed by Putin's obsession with Russian revisionist history and actively cheerleading their invasion of Ukraine? That you're openly "rooting" for them?

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What was "revisionist"...what did he claim happened historically, that did not happen?

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He claimed Poland was at fault for kicking off world war 2 for not surrendering territory to Hitler, which is a blatant lie as Hitler himself said he was always going to invade Poland and later the USSR. He also claimed everything Russia did during the Second World War was defensive, which is again a blatant lie as they invaded and occupied eastern Poland long before they faced any offensive threat and then later invaded and occupied large swaths of territory beyond their eastern and southeastern border that had no strategic wartime value. They were occupying it when they had the chance in order to incorporate them into their postwar sphere of influence. Once it was clear that Germany was going to lose by any objective assessment (Fall/Winter of 1943) and it was only a matter of when their entire strategy converted to "how can we hold as much geographical, monetary and political influence as possible after the war".

Woods Ag said:

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What about us? I imagine we face a similar fate with the drop in birth rates, the LGBTQ-A1 sauce group and its infiltration into the military, and the general lack of patriotism facing the US. A lot of young people have a "it's not my problem" mentality and more of a globalist viewpoint. Maybe a slightly longer timetable...

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Our demographics are much better than Russia's and the best of all the advanced first world economies. Our birth rate isn't great but it's better than every other economically powerful nation except Israel, and we have huge population of young nationalized immigrants with job skills to buffer our declining birth rate. We also have the very large millennial generation that most other powerful nations lack.

We're still at least 40 years away from facing the problems Russia, Germany, Italy, etc. are facing now. And by then technology/automation will have helped soften the blow.

El Gallo Blanco said:

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twk said:

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I'm glad Carlson did the interview, but it's amazing how gullible some of you are.

Putin's version of history has been discussed on this board before. This is nothing new. The fact that he can ramble on with this propaganda for an extended period of time indicates only that he's more mentally competent than our president, but that's an extremely low bar to clear. Let's just say that his version of a number of historical points is "debatable."

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First, he's more mentally competent and knowledgeable than the vast vast majority of politicians in this country. To even try to debate that would be laughable.

Second, where did he get the history wrong? What did he make up that didn't really happen. Got any specifics?

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Here is someone else's listing of some of the times that Putin either stretches the truth, or just invents a theory:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68255302

Putin loves to give his spin on history and has been doing this for a long time.

One of the biggest whoppers is that Putin has repeatedly claimed that there is no such thing as Ukraine, that it is merely a 20th Century invention. That's bs, as the same could be said about virtually every country in Europe, even Russia.

He claims that Crimea is historically Russian on the basis that the Russians ran out the native inhabitants in the 16th century, but the reason that the Soviets included Crimea in Ukraine is that they are linked by land, whereas Russia and Crimea are not; furthermore, the construction of a reservoir on the Dneiper in Ukraine, and the building of a canal from that reservoir to serve Crimea (which has a difficult time subsisting without this water) further illustrates why Crimea was included in the Ukraine by the Soviets.

Those are just illustrative of the point. This may all be new to a lot of people who were first exposed to it during Tucker's interview, but Putin's ideas have been out there for years.

Woods Ag said:

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He does. There was an agreement and that agreement was broken by Ukraine and NATO which allowed him to break his side of the agreement.

You can be opposed to him invading Ukraine and also understand that he had a reason to do so. They're not mutually exclusive.

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Nonsense. He takes Ukraine and magically gets at least 3 nato powers on his border.

Nato/nazis are a convenient excuses for historical grievances and the more practical reasons to take ukraine: energy, water and food.

Yeah, but it's a buffer between him and those powers that he controls. If Ukraine becomes NATO then he has them 280 miles from Moscow. That's a big difference, and it should definitely be a concern of his if he did approach Clinton about joining NATO and Clinton had to circle back with him that it was not possible. At that point the lines are drawn and Russia knows where it stands.

This "nonsense" **** that gets spouted off as a retort is ridiculous. Nothing I've said is nonsense that I can see. I havent made anything up.

Russia had no plans to incorporate all of Ukraine back into Russia. I think Putin wanted to take the resource rich regions in the Donbas and the oil rich areas in the Black Sea and Sea of Azov and then leave a smaller Ukraine under a puppet government to act as a buffer until he was ready to make his next move.

Makes sense to me. He just needed justification and he got it. It wasn't popular in Russia. I have a friend in St Petersburg that was very upset. They were protesting in the streets. He and his girlfriend were looking into immigrating to America. They see Ukrainians are family. He has Ukrainian friends and family.

Now, they seem like they're back to normal. We don't talk much anymore other than checking in to see how each other are doing. He's doing normal stuff. Working, camping, hiking, riding his motorcycle, etc. Not now obviously, bc he's under snow, but throughout last year. They don't seem effected.

Woods Ag said:

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Makes sense to me. He just needed justification and he got it. It wasn't popular in Russia. I have a friend in St Petersburg that was very upset. They were protesting in the streets. He and his girlfriend were looking into immigrating to America. They see Ukrainians are family. He has Ukrainian friends and family.

Now, they seem like they're back to normal. We don't talk much anymore other than checking in to see how each other are doing. He's doing normal stuff. Working, camping, hiking, riding his motorcycle, etc. Not now obviously, bc he's under snow, but throughout last year. They don't seem effected.

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The normies in Moscow and St. Petersburg mostly get left alone. It's prisoners and ethnic minorities from the remote republics that get sent off to get blown into chunks by FPV drones on some slag heap in Donetsk.

I have a buddy that grew up in southern Russia. Moved here ~15 or so years ago. He's a white guy, but comes from an area with large Muslim population and has a last name that tips other Russians off to where he grew up.

Despite not being religious at all, he wears an Orthodox cross all the time so that when he runs into other Russians they don't assume he's some Islamic zealot. If he ever set foot in Russia again, they'd ship his ass off to Ukraine with a ****ty rifle and 2 magazines and hope he makes it a week or so.

Woods Ag said:

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Yeah, but it's a buffer between him and those powers that he controls. If Ukraine becomes NATO then he has them 280 miles from Moscow. That's a big difference, and it should definitely be a concern of his if he did approach Clinton about joining NATO and Clinton had to circle back with him that it was not possible. At that point the lines are drawn and Russia knows where it stands.

This "nonsense" **** that gets spouted off as a retort is ridiculous. Nothing I've said is nonsense that I can see. I havent made anything up.

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Is nato going to drive 280 miles to Moscow?

No. It's a ridiculous assertion.

I do agree with you that if he really asked to join and turn the page with the west, and Clinton was told no, then it's a potential missed opportunity. However, I take Putin's story with a grain of salt.

nato is not why Russia invaded Ukraine and its a bull**** reason.

It's much more likely energy, food, water and putin's historical preferences were the leading reasons and that nazisim and nato are the convenient excuses

A ridiculous assertion? are you serious?

We were seconds away from nuclear war with Russia because of their activity in Cuba... Why did we give so much of a **** about what they were doing in Cuba? I'll wait...

Quite the narrative the MSM got going here.

They all had the opportunity to interview Putin but didn't have the sac.

Tucker does it and all of a sudden he's the problem.

I dont think the usa reacted correctly to that, but, those times were not the same as these times. I dont think it's an analogous situation to which compare.

Nato is a defensive organization. There's little evidence it would proactively attack any country, or even if it has that capability.

Either way, Ukraine, a sovereign state, wishing pr attempting to join the EU or nato does not justify Russia's invasion and attempt to erase it from the map.

It's paranoid nonsense.

Tucker Carlson averaged around 3 million viewers on Fox News on primetime

Tucker Carlson on 𝕏 ratings:

Milei interview: 428 million views
Trump interview: 265 million views
Putin interview: 139 million views (so far)
Viktor Orbán Interview: 130 million views
Andrew Tate…

— End Wokeness (@EndWokeness) February 9, 2024

After the alphabet agencies and intelligence community colluded directly with big tech and media companies to rig/influence the last election...i do believe Putin when he warns us that our CIA etc. are pulling the strings and steering this country much more than we would like to believe. And obviously, Biden isn't in charge of ANYTHING. We have a shadow government.

Yet we play all high and mighty and point fingers like sleazy hypocrites.

I did find it funny that Putin actually paid some respect to Biden by not making fun of him, when he very easily and justifiably could have said "look, you're a smart man, you see how incompetent and mentally deficient he is, he is a very hard man to talk to...it is almost impossible, it's like he has no brain". I was expecting him to mock him (and us for voting him into power) mercilessly, but he took the high road.