Emotional Support Cobra said:

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Who even buys typewriters anymore???

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How else do you create punch cards?

Our employer has revised our work from home policy. We have 4 categories with varying requirements. I was in the 1 day a week category and they are moving it to 2 days in the office.

I wouldn't have a problem except they reduced our footprint by 50%. I went from having 2 offices (one in the north and one in the south) to now no assigned office space. All of my direct reports are remote workers so I get to go sit in an unassigned cube now for 40% of my work week for no real reason or need.

Back in the early 2000's, IBM was shutting sites and telling workers to WFH. Pendulum now swinging back in full force.

Burdizzo said:

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Emotional Support Cobra said:

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Who even buys typewriters anymore???

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How else do you create punch cards?

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we were cleaning out my dad's house last year.

so many punchcards.....

HollywoodBQ said:

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Sounds like either:

• They've got a lot of expensive office space that's vacant
• They want people to quit rather than have to do a layoff
• Or, productivity has fallen to levels where they need to watch people

https://www.linkedin.com/news/story/ibm-to-managers-rto-or-leave-5924172/

Quote:

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Effective immediately, all U.S. managers must be in-office at least three days a week, and their badge swipes will be tracked and shared with supervisors and HR, said Senior Vice President John Granger in the note. Managers who don't live within 50 miles of an IBM facility, a source told Bloomberg, must move closer by the beginning of August or "separate" from the company.
...
Office attendance stayed basically flat in 2023, per data cited by Bloomberg; for the 10 largest U.S. business districts, it sat around half of pre-pandemic numbers.

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It's going to be real interesting to see how this and similar moves by other companies play out during this election year in Biden's economy.

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If true, these are really dumb ways to manage a company.
What will happen is that the good workers who don't need to be micromanaged will get annoyed and leave. You will be left with slackers who will stay and come in but find ways to slack even in the office. Then the company will implode as only slackers are left.

Real reason is the CEO spent a bunch of money on office which he cannot get out of and doesn't want to look dumb. Other is the local politicians called up CEOs because downtowns are suffering and tax revenues have fallen. So they want money.

samurai_science said:

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Lowering headcount through attrition looks better than a mass layoff

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May look better but only for a short time. There is no way to get rid of the people who want gone. Many critical people will leave too.

I do think it is hard to create an effective culture remotely. One company I was at managed to do it, but it essentially required the international team to travel and meet periodically to build that rapport.

Muy said:

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Aglaw97 said:

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The majority of management teams do not like WFH and view a hybrid (at least three days in the office) as already being flexible. You can have debates about whether that makes sense, whether it works in your job, etc. but it doesn't change the reality.

Like most things, nobody wanted to be the first mover on throwing down this hammer but now that companies have started doing it, more and more will follow suit.

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The majority of management? I guess it depends on the industry but in tech the majority of managers WFH as well.

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I am in tech and in my previous job, my boss would have status calls with me from a San Francisco park. And he would pan his laptop cam around so I could see the surroundings.

96AgGrad said:

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I do think it is hard to create an effective culture remotely. One company I was at managed to do it, but it essentially required the international team to travel and meet periodically to build that rapport.

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Why is it important? As long as people are not toxic, it does not matter. I have worked at both awesome and toxic places both remotely. One I hated, other my best job. And I never saw/met any of these people in real life.

All this is 60s thinking.

Deputy Travis Junior said:

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Beat40 said:

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I hate to break it to you, but people are not dedicating 8 hours to their employer at the office either

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This is the truth right here. Office Space with its jokes about office slackers wasn't filmed in 2020.

I do think WFH should be reserved for people with experience that have proven they know what the hell they're doing and are mature enough to stay on task. If you have people like that, give them enough work to keep them busy and then let them do their thing. Letting 24 year old newbies do it is probably a mistake.

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I will agree with this. I don't think my son who will get into the workforce in a few years should be allowed to WFH. And for myself, I am responsible enough to manage my time.

infinity ag said:

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96AgGrad said:

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I do think it is hard to create an effective culture remotely. One company I was at managed to do it, but it essentially required the international team to travel and meet periodically to build that rapport.

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Why is it important? As long as people are not toxic, it does not matter. I have worked at both awesome and toxic places both remotely. One I hated, other my best job. And I never saw/met any of these people in real life.

All this is 60s thinking.

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Agree. "Culture" is overrated, especially in a multi-national mega corporation. Culture is great for a startup with less than 100 people where you want everyone to hang out with each other after work, etc. In today's world though it has limited benefit for most companies.

I remember when "doing whatever it takes" was a virtue.

infinity ag said:

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Muy said:

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Aglaw97 said:

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The majority of management teams do not like WFH and view a hybrid (at least three days in the office) as already being flexible. You can have debates about whether that makes sense, whether it works in your job, etc. but it doesn't change the reality.

Like most things, nobody wanted to be the first mover on throwing down this hammer but now that companies have started doing it, more and more will follow suit.

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The majority of management? I guess it depends on the industry but in tech the majority of managers WFH as well.

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I am in tech and in my previous job, my boss would have status calls with me from a San Francisco park. And he would pan his laptop cam around so I could see the surroundings.

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Exactly. Tech managers with remote employees love being remote more than anyone.

I've worked remote since 2000 when internet was still sketchy. Not even sure if we had WebEx yet.

javajaws said:

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infinity ag said:

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96AgGrad said:

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I do think it is hard to create an effective culture remotely. One company I was at managed to do it, but it essentially required the international team to travel and meet periodically to build that rapport.

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Why is it important? As long as people are not toxic, it does not matter. I have worked at both awesome and toxic places both remotely. One I hated, other my best job. And I never saw/met any of these people in real life.

All this is 60s thinking.

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Agree. "Culture" is overrated, especially in a multi-national mega corporation. Culture is great for a startup with less than 100 people where you want everyone to hang out with each other after work, etc. In today's world though it has limited benefit for most companies.

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Yup.. I was in the same boat before COVID and thought that you needed to be face to face else work was impossible. But in 25 years of work, my absolute best and most productive job was the 2 years in my last company and I never met anyone in real life. Mind blowing to think of this!

Muy said:

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Aglaw97 said:

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The majority of management teams do not like WFH and view a hybrid (at least three days in the office) as already being flexible. You can have debates about whether that makes sense, whether it works in your job, etc. but it doesn't change the reality.

Like most things, nobody wanted to be the first mover on throwing down this hammer but now that companies have started doing it, more and more will follow suit.

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The majority of management? I guess it depends on the industry but in tech the majority of managers WFH as well.

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Tech is the one industry doing it more than others but even there it's not across the Board. Many other sectors are transitioning back to work in the office if they aren't already there.

I really dont find the 3 days in to be a bad gig. Most companies are doing that now. We are officially 4 in, 1 remote, but flex with your business unit so it is more often 3 in and 2 remote most weeks. I find it a great balance. Crazy there are companies still all in WFH bc of covid

NASAg03 said:

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Rapier108 said:

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Good, time to tell people to either come to work and do their job, or find other employment.

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Ok boomer.

I've been working remote the past 4 years and have seen my salary raise 60% in that time, while starting my own consulting business, helping start a robotics company with 4 other remote guys spanning the US, and working for a space company that's aiming for a lunar landing next month.

And that company I helped start is now 40 strong and majority remote.

If you need to be supervised to work efficiently, then that's not efficient as it requires many more resources. Instead rethink your culture and business model.

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I literally turned down a really good engineering job today doing modeling and simulation. Fully remote other than some travel to install sites and the HIL/SIL occasionally.

I've actually turned it down twice before that and they kept improving the offer. I think it would be great job but just not enough to make me pull the trigger.

I have another interview for a fully remote job doing the same thing for an unmanned air taxi company next week, though, so maybe THEIR fully remote offer will be good enough.

Remote jobs ARE out there.

Hell, I work on a number of projects where 90% of the work is done by Teams/Zoom between teams at their work sites. No reason anyone REALLY has to be on site for ANY of those.

This is about control, nothing more.

All these companies put workers in low-cost locations and non-co-location was fine then. Peeps told to figure it out.

Now… co-location is important for productivity. LOL.

Don't fall cor the lie.

I work for a SaaS/big data company. We have just reiterated our dedication to WFH.

Ayto Siks said:

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Their most talented employees will have viable WFH alternatives and IBM might end up retaining the mediocre performers with limited options.

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Yep… I really don't understand companies doing this in the software industry. Just makes previously content talented employees take their talent elsewhere. Fully remote software positions are a dime a dozen.

It makes even less sense for large companies with teams split between locations. At the end of the day you're still having to do your meetings via Teams, so what's the point?

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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Quote:

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and working for a space company that's aiming for a lunar landing next month.

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Y'all goin' dark side?

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Let us know if you ever get a man there

The corporate culture at my company tanked when everyone when we all went home. Still hasn't recovered.

Is "corporate culture" from being in the office really important? Why?
Is the main purpose so old guys who like being in the office can pretend to have a good culture or like it?

JDL 96 said:

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Is "corporate culture" from being in the office really important? Why?
Is the main purpose so old guys who like being in the office can pretend to have a good culture or like it?

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The old guard who sign the checks is butt hurt because people don't suck up to them as much or give them back rubs as frequently from home. It's not enough for them to be the big shot, they want to feel like a big shot and rub other folks noses in it.

Not this thread again..

Ayto Siks said:

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Their most talented employees will have viable WFH alternatives and IBM might end up retaining the mediocre performers with limited options.

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This is a real danger in Tech.
You can have employees working in India, but you have to drive in 30 min traffic if you work here?

That's BS.

The 3 days a week in the office not a big deal. However forcing relocation if more than 50 miles from a hub, or part ways with the company? Guessing IBM won't be providing much in the way of relocation assistance either. That is an entirely different scenario.

schmellba99 said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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schmellba99 said:

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Yeah.....because EVERY job and EVERY industry is EXACTLY the same in how they operate. EXACTLY the same.

You and your buddies can pull it off - good for you, it works. But here's a bit of a hint - if people were to be truly honest, WFH is a reduction in efficiency and productivity, and you 100% miss out on the day to day interaction with your other coworkers and team members.

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This guy is admitting that he is stealing his employer's time. Seems like employers are right to want their employees in the office with oversight.

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Way to try to change the subject, but you do you and rock on with it.

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I'm not trying to change the subject. The nasa dude was admitting to stealing his employer's time, which I am guessing he would not do if he were in his office. I have enough trouble with lazy employees in the office. If they were at home, they would do nothing.

Beat40 said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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I cannot believe there are people who are still working from home because of the covid hysteria. If an employer has determined WFH is good for them, more power to them. Otherwise, go the hell back to the office. People are not dedicating 8 hours to their employer at home.

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I hate to break it to you, but people are not dedicating 8 hours to their employer at the office either.

Now, I happen to agree with your overall sentiment. Some people cannot handle WFH and they are going to let too many distractions keep them from being productive, but that definitely happens at the office too.

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Of course they aren't. But that 6 hours in the office is 3 hours at home.

As someone else mentioned, the interaction with team members and camaraderie is important to corporate culture, at least in my mind.

"Get a fake job somewhere else." -Elon Musk

I lead a scada team covering four assets and 3000 wells and have been home since covid started. I don't miss driving ten hours a week and have been able to be with my four year old son every day since he was born. It works for me now but probably would not have 20 years ago. Plus, we jacked around in that office so much, my productivity is up. Long live WFH.

3 days in, 2 at home is a good balance IMO.

My job requires change management so it's better that I piss people off in person rather than remotely.

I've Been Moved?