Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

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These threads are so stupid because they lack context. It depends on the industry and type of company for work from home to work vs not.

I have a manufacturing company, and while office hours are SUPER flexible, we require people to be in the office every work day. Edit: even my sales managers because it isn't fair to the mfg people to not be work from home and the sales team to be allowed to. We all do this together, and I am in every day as well.

I also have a real estate company, and that one is completely work form home unless you are on site.

Software developer? Probably ok to WFH if you have pretty nice intercompany communications set up to track progress and milestones.

Want to manage a manufacturing floor while working from home? I am probably firing you because you are a moron to think that is remotely acceptable or responsible to even try.

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I don't see how that is even possible to do remotely. Manufacturing requires people to be physically there to do the work. So, managing them would need the boss to be there too.

Now, the job offer I just declined was fully remote except for site visits and occasional trips to the local HQ mostly for HIL work. It was sort of software related, though.

Software and some management can be done remotely - especially if all the employees are remote, too. No need to go into an office to do a Teams meeting with everyone that's not in the office. Hell, even when S/W guys are in the office they're glued to their computer 99% of the time.

cecil77 said:

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BG Knocc Out said:

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cecil77 said:

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Most of us work for big corporations with zero loyalty who see us just as replaceable tools.

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Using census data, the WSJ calculated that 36.2 percent of people worked at either a large (2,500 to 9,999 people) or very large (10,000 or more people) company, versus 38.9 percent who worked for small (100 or fewer people) companies and 24.9 percent who worked for mid-sized (100 to 2,499 people).There are 33,185,550 small businesses in the United States. Small businesses employ 61.7 million Americans, totaling 46.4% of private sector employees. From 1995 to 2021, small businesses created 17.3 million net new jobs, accounting for 62.7% of net jobs created since 1995.

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I would bet that most of "us" educated folk on Texags work for a company that pressured us to get the vaccine and push liberal BS. If not "most", then a sizeable portion.

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That's not my experience among the TA people I know. Posting on T A is peak 8 to 5. Helps to get the be self employed or small business to get away with that.

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Lotta lawyers and engineers on here.

Muy said:

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BG Knocc Out said:

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cecil77 said:

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Most of us work for big corporations with zero loyalty who see us just as replaceable tools.

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Using census data, the WSJ calculated that 36.2 percent of people worked at either a large (2,500 to 9,999 people) or very large (10,000 or more people) company, versus 38.9 percent who worked for small (100 or fewer people) companies and 24.9 percent who worked for mid-sized (100 to 2,499 people).There are 33,185,550 small businesses in the United States. Small businesses employ 61.7 million Americans, totaling 46.4% of private sector employees. From 1995 to 2021, small businesses created 17.3 million net new jobs, accounting for 62.7% of net jobs created since 1995.

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I would bet that most of "us" educated folk on Texags work for a company that pressured us to get the vaccine and push liberal BS. If not "most", then a sizeable portion.

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Big tech employee here. I waited them out, then a couple of days before had a therapist write a letter about the mental anxiety it was causing me. Took them 3 months to respond, and by then the mandate had been lifted.

Victory.

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I was literally 2 days away from being forced to get it, provide proof I had it to the company I work for, when the Supreme Court decision came down.

I came so close a couple of times to just going to get the Vax because it was stressing the shigt out of me losing my job of 15 years over the stupid shigt...Thankfully, my wife who works in healthcare was able to talk me out of it...

Now, I get to watch all the dumb DEMs in my office stress the frick out about any bad news they see about the Vaxes and regret their decisions...A few of them have told me they regret getting it, but mostly regret forcing their kids to get it. I can empathize for their kids..

There's another F40 that's going to announce RTO tomorrow. For remote workers, basically you get to keep your job, but are not eligible for promotions unless you give up remote, move close to an office.

It's really difficult to spin this in any direction other than trying to get people to quiet quit or find new jobs. Those that stagnate will be layoff targets.

I did the first jab, wife did as well. I wish we hadn't.

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but mostly regret forcing their kids to get it.

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Know of some parents that pressured young kids to 'volunteer' to get the thing like it was some kind of noble decision for the good of mankind and a sign of maturity for the kid to make that decision.

Really sick that a bunch of kids were coerced into testing an experimental drug.

It may be the case that relationships are strained or will be strained in the future when kids come to the realization that they were used a crash test dummy and in some cases to make a political statement.

Some parents were hysterical and lost their minds over it. They couldn't be reasoned with. There has to be a lot of regret knowing what we know now.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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but mostly regret forcing their kids to get it.

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Know of some parents that pressured young kids to 'volunteer' to get the thing like it was some kind of noble decision for the good of mankind and a sign of maturity for the kid to make that decision.

Really sick that a bunch of kids were coerced into testing an experimental drug.

It may be the case that relationships are strained or will be strained in the future when kids come to the realization that they were used a crash test dummy and in some cases to make a political statement.

Some parents were hysterical and lost their minds over it. They couldn't be reasoned with. There has to be a lot of regret knowing what we know now.

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Yeah, I pray those kids don't have any ill affects from it going forward...Can't believe the parents , teachers or whichever adult coerced/ forced them to do it when there was almost zero chance they would die from C19. It was even known back then the virus had little to no impact on kids.

NASAg03 said:

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Rapier108 said:

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Good, time to tell people to either come to work and do their job, or find other employment.

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Ok boomer.

I've been working remote the past 4 years and have seen my salary raise 60% in that time, while starting my own consulting business, helping start a robotics company with 4 other remote guys spanning the US, and working for a space company that's aiming for a lunar landing next month.

And that company I helped start is now 40 strong and majority remote.

If you need to be supervised to work efficiently, then that's not efficient as it requires many more resources. Instead rethink your culture and business model.

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Wow! You're comparing a startup company with 40 employees to IBM? You don't need to monitor everyone for multiple reasons:
1. You have great control over the hiring process and are not subject to corporate mandate.
1a. You most likely are able to identify talent with similar drive.
2. In an environment so small, someone's slacking will become obvious.
3. A small, growing company presents obvious opportunities for advancement as incentive to over achieve.

Ramdiesel said:

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I was literally 2 days away from being forced to get it, provide proof I had it to the company I work for, when the Supreme Court decision came down.

I came so close a couple of times to just going to get the Vax because it was stressing the shigt out of me losing my job of 15 years over the stupid shigt...

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I work for a Bay Area company so the amount of stress was extremely high for me but I was prepared to walk away.

Luckily for me, the company decided that if you were a remote office employee, you didn't have to get vaxxed.

They did say that if you ever came into one of the corporate offices, you'd have to be vaxxed. I was fine with never going in to a corporate office ever again.

About six months ago, they started pushing anybody who lives within 50 miles of an office to come in 3 days/week. No mention about vax requirements. I think those have fallen by the wayside.

But man, all those Zoom calls in 2021-2022 and even in to 2023 where these meatheads were bragging about which vax they got and how many boosters they got. It was ridiculous. Especially since they all wound up getting the Vid multiple times and missing work. Just so sad how many weak minded people are out there.

javajaws said:

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infinity ag said:

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96AgGrad said:

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I do think it is hard to create an effective culture remotely. One company I was at managed to do it, but it essentially required the international team to travel and meet periodically to build that rapport.

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Why is it important? As long as people are not toxic, it does not matter. I have worked at both awesome and toxic places both remotely. One I hated, other my best job. And I never saw/met any of these people in real life.

All this is 60s thinking.

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Agree. "Culture" is overrated, especially in a multi-national mega corporation. Culture is great for a startup with less than 100 people where you want everyone to hang out with each other after work, etc. In today's world though it has limited benefit for most companies.

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I wouldn't say most. Most companies are small to midsize, and culture is absolutely important in those. Megacorps have their own subcultures within them, and maybe that's important within departments or regions, but for the companies with 1 to 1000 or so employees, culture is critical.

agwrestler said:

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NASAg03 said:

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Rapier108 said:

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Good, time to tell people to either come to work and do their job, or find other employment.

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Ok boomer.

I've been working remote the past 4 years and have seen my salary raise 60% in that time, while starting my own consulting business, helping start a robotics company with 4 other remote guys spanning the US, and working for a space company that's aiming for a lunar landing next month.

And that company I helped start is now 40 strong and majority remote.

If you need to be supervised to work efficiently, then that's not efficient as it requires many more resources. Instead rethink your culture and business model.

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Wow! You're comparing a startup company with 40 employees to IBM? You don't need to monitor everyone for multiple reasons:
1. You have great control over the hiring process and are not subject to corporate mandate.
1a. You most likely are able to identify talent with similar drive.
2. In an environment so small, someone's slacking will become obvious.
3. A small, growing company presents obvious opportunities for advancement as incentive to over achieve.

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Start ups embracing all star remote workers are going to end up with the best talent and eat into the market share of these dinosaur corporations overrun with inefficient HR practices and slug workers.

HollywoodBQ said:

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Ramdiesel said:

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I was literally 2 days away from being forced to get it, provide proof I had it to the company I work for, when the Supreme Court decision came down.

I came so close a couple of times to just going to get the Vax because it was stressing the shigt out of me losing my job of 15 years over the stupid shigt...

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I work for a Bay Area company so the amount of stress was extremely high for me but I was prepared to walk away.

Luckily for me, the company decided that if you were a remote office employee, you didn't have to get vaxxed.

They did say that if you ever came into one of the corporate offices, you'd have to be vaxxed. I was fine with never going in to a corporate office ever again.

About six months ago, they started pushing anybody who lives within 50 miles of an office to come in 3 days/week. No mention about vax requirements. I think those have fallen by the wayside.

But man, all those Zoom calls in 2021-2022 and even in to 2023 where these meatheads were bragging about which vax they got and how many boosters they got. It was ridiculous. Especially since they all wound up getting the Vid multiple times and missing work. Just so sad how many weak minded people are out there.

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The office I work at in Phoenix is probably about 90% Democrat leaning folks...I have to bite my tongue a lot and I avoid any kind of poltical conversations like the plague, but they sure as heck do not avoid them. It's disturbing listening to their views on a lot of stuff they talk about from Covid,to Trump and the so called "Insurrection", and immigration.. I'm happy and content working from home instead of listening to all of their crap...

There are several foreigners in the office too that are always forcing there country's traditional food on me, some of its not too bad, but most is crap...I grew up on a Ranch in the middle of nowhere in West Texas, feel really out of place sometimes with all these people I work with...LOL! It's like I came from an entirely different universe than most of these people, but, it's a fortune 100 company and really good pay for Arizona..

I'm really hoping Return to the Office thinking goes away with all of these companies so my wife and I can start building a cabin on a little piece of land we bought in AZ out in the middle of the sticks so I can work from there...

HollywoodBQ said:

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Sounds like either:

• They've got a lot of expensive office space that's vacant
• They want people to quit rather than have to do a layoff
• Or, productivity has fallen to levels where they need to watch people

https://www.linkedin.com/news/story/ibm-to-managers-rto-or-leave-5924172/

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Effective immediately, all U.S. managers must be in-office at least three days a week, and their badge swipes will be tracked and shared with supervisors and HR, said Senior Vice President John Granger in the note. Managers who don't live within 50 miles of an IBM facility, a source told Bloomberg, must move closer by the beginning of August or "separate" from the company.
...
Office attendance stayed basically flat in 2023, per data cited by Bloomberg; for the 10 largest U.S. business districts, it sat around half of pre-pandemic numbers.

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It's going to be real interesting to see how this and similar moves by other companies play out during this election year in Biden's economy.

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The simple answer is that after three years of WFH, IBM isn't sure whether their minority hires are really African Americn females or middle aged bald guys names Steve who uses a really good filter on Zoom calls and modulate their voice up half an octave. They need to make sure that they have actually fired enough white males and Asians to meet their DEI quotas.

BREAKING LEAKED VIDEO: CEO of IBM @ArvindKrishna admits to using coercion to fire people and take away their bonuses unless they discriminate in the hiring process.

“You got to move both forward by a percentage that leads to a plus on your bonus," Krishna said about hiring… pic.twitter.com/UUK26HX8IP

— James O'Keefe (@JamesOKeefeIII) December 12, 2023

It's only been six weeks since that video was leaked and it is already deep in the memory hole.

Ramdiesel said:

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The office I work at in Phoenix is probably about 90% Democrat leaning folks...I have to bite my tongue a lot and I avoid any kind of poltical conversations like the plague, but they sure as heck do not avoid them. It's disturbing listening to their views on a lot of stuff they talk about from Covid,to Trump and the so called "Insurrection", and immigration.. I'm happy and content working from home instead of listening to all of their crap...

There are several foreigners in the office too that are always forcing there country's traditional food on me, some of its not too bad, but most is crap...

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Agree on both topics - Politics and Food with a slightly different perspective.

In my case, when we were full zoom during 2020-2022, groupthink was as pervasive as ever with no option to walk away. I just made sure I was on mute and had my camera off during those - I can't believe these people are saying this. I even had one Australian co-worker go so far as to say that people who weren't getting the vax should be put to death (ironic since their country has no death penalty).

As far as the food, yeah, the smells in the break room, and group outings to Dim Sum, or Indian, etc. but I've done enough of those I can make it through.

The one thing I don't miss at all is the pretentious Vegan *****s. In Australia, I worked with like 4 dudes (English/Scottish descent) who had gone vegetarian or vegan. Unfortunately two of them were in leadership roles which meant that every time we went out to eat as a group, we had to go someplace that was Veg, or Vegan. But the worst part is, they just won't shut up about it. How meat is murder, etc. Yeah, and it tastes good too.

I'm so glad I haven't had to suffer through one of those work group meals with pretentious *****s pontificating about the virtues of being a Vegetarian/Vegan since early 2020. Don't miss that at all.

EDIT: Apparently the TexAgs won't let you use the word for poke spelled similarly to bricks.

try working as a Contractor at the State Department during year three of the Trump Administration

BadMoonRisin said:

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There's another F40 that's going to announce RTO tomorrow. For remote workers, basically you get to keep your job, but are not eligible for promotions unless you give up remote, move close to an office.

It's really difficult to spin this in any direction other than trying to get people to quiet quit or find new jobs. Those that stagnate will be layoff targets.

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It'd be pretty funny if all the high performing individuals stayed WFH to force some pretty interesting decisions in the future.

Won't happen, but it'd be funny.

javajaws said:

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infinity ag said:

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annie88 said:

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In Biden's America no one wants to work anymore. Fire every single one of them that doesn't come back. This isn't really hard. Enough of this *****

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Let me guess, you are 70+ years old.

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Do you really have to be 70 to do what your employer tells you to do? You don't have to like it, and you don't have to work for them - it's a free country. But if your employer tells you to do something pertinent to your job then maybe perhaps you should do it?

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I would just find another job. My free time and happiness is more valuable than my employer and always will be.

Was in a Dallas coffee shop two weeks ago and a guy was a regular by the way he was chatting with a barista. Said he was a IBM guy for like 28 years and was laid off. Said he only gets a couple month's severance? Sounded bad. Said they changed their severance policy and if he would have been let go a couple years ago he would have got pay equal to years served so like two years worth. If true that's tough.

Ulysses90 said:

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HollywoodBQ said:

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Sounds like either:

• They've got a lot of expensive office space that's vacant
• They want people to quit rather than have to do a layoff
• Or, productivity has fallen to levels where they need to watch people

https://www.linkedin.com/news/story/ibm-to-managers-rto-or-leave-5924172/

Quote:

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Effective immediately, all U.S. managers must be in-office at least three days a week, and their badge swipes will be tracked and shared with supervisors and HR, said Senior Vice President John Granger in the note. Managers who don't live within 50 miles of an IBM facility, a source told Bloomberg, must move closer by the beginning of August or "separate" from the company.
...
Office attendance stayed basically flat in 2023, per data cited by Bloomberg; for the 10 largest U.S. business districts, it sat around half of pre-pandemic numbers.

---

It's going to be real interesting to see how this and similar moves by other companies play out during this election year in Biden's economy.

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The simple answer is that after three years of WFH, IBM isn't sure whether their minority hires are really African Americn females or middle aged bald guys names Steve who uses a really good filter on Zoom calls and modulate their voice up half an octave. They need to make sure that they have actually fired enough white males and Asians to meet their DEI quotas.

BREAKING LEAKED VIDEO: CEO of IBM @ArvindKrishna admits to using coercion to fire people and take away their bonuses unless they discriminate in the hiring process.

“You got to move both forward by a percentage that leads to a plus on your bonus," Krishna said about hiring… pic.twitter.com/UUK26HX8IP

— James O'Keefe (@JamesOKeefeIII) December 12, 2023

It's only been six weeks since that video was leaked and it is already deep in the memory hole.

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Holy crap. I had not seen that video. That is ridiculous.
Apparently the video is from 2021 but still nuts.

And how about their DE&I leader Allison Showalter? Just grinning when the IBM CEO Arvind Krishna says that there is no under-representation of Asians.

They want to get to a % that reflects the populations - 50% Female, 13% Black, etc.

In my line of work, it's 5% Female, less than 1% Black. There simply aren't enough women or Blacks to ever come close to reaching those goals. Unless you just want to add a bunch of ghosts for no-show jobs to make your paperwork look good.