IIIHorn said:

---

I've Been Moved?

---

irritable Bowel Movement

How do factory workers WFH? Warehouse employees? Any business requiring a service (like auto, tires, etc)? Retail? Food Service?

There are huge numbers of workers that actually have to be where the work is. So if you're a manufacturing company, it's tough for the white collar guys to get to WFH and not ever be there. Just doesn't work.

SOME interaction is beneficial in many, if not most businesses.

10 years ago the hybrid 2-3 days in the office model would have been unthinkable.

I would question any employee who doesn't want to ever come in. I'd probably go to printed paychecks that have to be picked up at the office...

How to downsize without paying severance packages 101.

Then for 201 you claim there aren't enough qualified applicants and bring over some H1B types.

hammerhead said:

---

NASAg03 said:

---

Rapier108 said:

---

Good, time to tell people to either come to work and do their job, or find other employment.

---

Ok boomer.

I've been working remote the past 4 years and have seen my salary raise 60% in that time, while starting my own consulting business, helping start a robotics company with 4 other remote guys spanning the US, and working for a space company that's aiming for a lunar landing next month.

And that company I helped start is now 40 strong and majority remote.

If you need to be supervised to work efficiently, then that's not efficient as it requires many more resources. Instead rethink your culture and business model.

---

So your have been working "full time" while starting a new business with 40 EE's and 3 partners while collecting a full time pay check from your "employeer"?

I think you answered the reason why they want EE's back in the office.

---

You make a great case for return to the office.

OverSeas AG said:

---

This is about control, nothing more.

All these companies put workers in low-cost locations and non-co-location was fine then. Peeps told to figure it out.

Now… co-location is important for productivity. LOL.

Don't fall cor the lie.

---

I think it's completely about the incredible waste of office space being unused. I'm sure a part of that is that these large companies aren't bringing much revenue to the areas they are located when the employees stay home everyday as well, and it sickens the C suite to see empty cubicles all over the buildings they spent money on.

In software return to the office is a bit funny. Everyone at home has multiple monitors, keyboards, mice, heck sometimes multiple computers. They spend all their meeting time on Zoom / WebEx. Typically, in the morning you are interacting with India in meetings for a few hours. When you go to the office, you do exactly the same thing. No one else from your team is even in the same building. They are scattered all over the country.

My company has nothing at the office, just tables. So while at the office, you have no monitor, keyboard, extra equipment. You have no assigned seats, just agile spaces. You can try to book a private room, but there are only 3 with 50 people trying to reserve them. Managers and developers will need to have client confidential meetings on zoom. It's a fail when surrounded by people all talking loud and you can't speak up because well others are not supposed to hear it.

For return to the office to work, you need to have proper / real office space. They need to accommodate productivity and confidential meetings. Also, it's a complete waste of time when the team is scattered all over the world and you are still by yourself or with one or two others who hide behind the screen all day.

Every software company I know that has tried this has failed. The good productive work from home people move on to another remote job for more money. The bad folks come on in wagging their tail only to continue to do a bad job.

I kinda like what Fidelity Investments does, which is smart. They go to the office 1 week, then 3 weeks remote. Everyone from the whole business area goes in the same time. It's kinda smart if you want a hybrid model. One guy was telling me, they still have trouble getting folks in that one week. The people that don't want to come in are their most productive people, so they kinda ignore it as long as they are productive.

redag06 said:

---

Fortune 500 company here, and they flat out we have been flat out told, "we spend a lot of money on our building, you are coming back"

---

Why not just stop spending money on office space and trust your mgmt to monitor performance?

Bobaloo said:

---

"Get a fake job somewhere else." -Elon Musk

---

you mean the guy who claims to sleep 3 hours a night while "running" four different companies into the ground

These threads about WFH always devolve in to stupidity.

No one's opinion matters. The only thing that matters is what the decision makers at said company determine to be the directive.

If you don't like it, one way or the other, take your talents elsewhere or get laid off or fired. It's that's simple.

Every organization and market sector is unique and dynamic and will make decisions based on what they believe is best for the business. And those decisions may be right or wrong.

And I say this as some who managed large organizations majority remotely for more than half of my corporate career. If it works, it works, if it doesn't it doesn't.

Stop whining

Ayto Siks said:

---

Their most talented employees will have viable WFH alternatives and IBM might end up retaining the mediocre performers with limited options.

---

Counterpoint: making people RTO feels good.

We decided to just purchase 50T overhead cranes for all of our welders/assemblers so they could WFH. Screw the man.

OverSeas AG said:

---

This is about control, nothing more.

All these companies put workers in low-cost locations and non-co-location was fine then. Peeps told to figure it out.

Now… co-location is important for productivity. LOL.

Don't fall cor the lie.

---

hahaha you are right!

I remember back in the old days, they shipped software jobs to India because it was cheaper to do so. The did not care about co-location. The work the Indian staff did was shoddy and we in the US had to fix it but no one cared. And now they want colocation? hahahaha

But let's be honest, could anyone here go into an Indian-based tech office everyday? I can't imagine.

It's all about the buildings. Real estate makes up a huge part of many companies. Their values are plummeting.

Urban Ag said:

---

These threads about WFH always devolve in to stupidity.

No one's opinion matters. The only thing that matters is what the decision makers at said company determine to be the directive.

---

Actually, it does matter. Because eventually some AIs will read all of this and use it as input into their decision making. And there will be some executives and managers that listen to those AIs as well as news articles posted about it thus helping to evolve the wfh movement (when applicable).

BQ78 said:

---

Why not all 3

---

it's hilarious that we have gone from when I was an attorney for CSC back in 2016 and their corporate headquarters was "OPEN SPACING" meaning there were NO OFFICES but even the General Counsel had a cubby like the rest of hundreds of peons sitting in view of each other

to now being able to work in your kitchen wearing boxer shorts.

this is kind of what it looked like but is even nicer than the ones we had at CSC/CSRA which was a billion dollar corporation in Falls Church, Virginia outside DC.

Beat40 said:

---

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

I cannot believe there are people who are still working from home because of the covid hysteria. If an employer has determined WFH is good for them, more power to them. Otherwise, go the hell back to the office. People are not dedicating 8 hours to their employer at home.

---

I hate to break it to you, but people are not dedicating 8 hours to their employer at the office either.

Now, I happen to agree with your overall sentiment. Some people cannot handle WFH and they are going to let too many distractions keep them from being productive, but that definitely happens at the office too.

---

Yes, some people can't handle the rigors of adulthood. And thinking management would handle those people individually.

Competent management would not make broad across the board dictats that speak more to their own incompetencies than to anything resembling actual management.

Ayto Siks said:

---

Their most talented employees will have viable WFH alternatives and IBM might end up retaining the mediocre performers with limited options.

---

Exactly right.


Why not just layoff or fire the low performers?

I think they don't know who the low performers are. They're too big to actually hire fire and promote based on performance. A literal Dilbert corporation.

bmks270 said:

---

Ayto Siks said:

---

Their most talented employees will have viable WFH alternatives and IBM might end up retaining the mediocre performers with limited options.

---

Exactly right.


Why not just layoff or fire the low performers?

I think they don't know who the low performers are. They're too big to actually hire fire and promote based on performance. A literal Dilbert corporation.

---

If you voluntarily separate, there's no severance/unemployment. If they don't get the reduction they're after with this strategy, you'll see buyouts and relocations next. Don't get it there, then you'll see the explicit RIF.

NASAg03 said:

---

Rapier108 said:

---

Good, time to tell people to either come to work and do their job, or find other employment.

---

Ok boomer.

I've been working remote the past 4 years and have seen my salary raise 60% in that time, while starting my own consulting business, helping start a robotics company with 4 other remote guys spanning the US, and working for a space company that's aiming for a lunar landing next month.

And that company I helped start is now 40 strong and majority remote.

If you need to be supervised to work efficiently, then that's not efficient as it requires many more resources. Instead rethink your culture and business model.

---

You may well be one in ten thousand, but the vast majority of people doing that level of outside work/consulting couldn't begin to give their full focus to their main job.

In my experience, most can't even work from home and give their best to their job even without all the outside gigs.

Rapier108 said:

---

Good, time to tell people to either come to work and do their job, or find other employment.

---

Shame they where mostly doing their jobs from home BETTER.....

Muy said:

---

But let's be honest, could anyone here go into an Indian-based tech office everyday? I can't imagine.

---

I worked for a big US tech company for a decade in both Los Angeles and Sydney.
I made a lot of business trips to our offices around Asia - Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, South Korea, China, Japan, New Zealand, etc.

What surprised me the most when I first went to Bangalore in 2012 was that they had the nicest offices and had the fastest Internet connection. Everything was brand new.

Some of the Internet connections at offices across Australasia were terrible. In fact, when I first got to Sydney in 2007, our Internet access routed through Singapore and Japan before going out to the Internet.

When I last drove past that Bangalore office in Feb. 2020, you could see that the exterior of the building was starting to look bad due to a lack of maintenance. I'm sure it's worse today but probably still nicer than many of the US offices.

Ayto Siks said:

---

Old school managers supporting RTO: a pizza party should smooth things over

---

LOL! That's hilarious. The company I work for tried to get everyone to start coming back to the office by luring them with free lunches once or twice a week. The most free food we have gotten in the past 18 years I have worked for them and the best quality too.

In the past, we usually got 3 or 4 free meals a year at the office , and it was complete garbage like Pizza, burgers, or some cardboard like chicken. And maybe we'd get a couple of team lunches a year at a decent restaurant.

Anyway, people started coming back for the free lunches for maybe a month and a half, and now even that isn't working. See less and less people each week.

Crazy how 180 degrees have happened. Workers are literally mad because they have to go to an office and WORK!

HollywoodBQ said:

---

Muy said:

---

But let's be honest, could anyone here go into an Indian-based tech office everyday? I can't imagine.

---

I worked for a big US tech company for a decade in both Los Angeles and Sydney.
I made a lot of business trips to our offices around Asia - Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, South Korea, China, Japan, New Zealand, etc.

What surprised me the most when I first went to Bangalore in 2012 was that they had the nicest offices and had the fastest Internet connection. Everything was brand new.

Some of the Internet connections at offices across Australasia were terrible. In fact, when I first got to Sydney in 2007, our Internet access routed through Singapore and Japan before going out to the Internet.

When I last drove past that Bangalore office in Feb. 2020, you could see that the exterior of the building was starting to look bad due to a lack of maintenance. I'm sure it's worse today but probably still nicer than many of the US offices.

---

Guess I confused it with Indian call centers.

Execs: "Get back on the office asap or you're fired!"

Also execs: "We must find a way to use AI to eliminate the employees we are forcing to come into the office"

I think the three days in the office a week (maybe 4) is the best mix.

Too much time at home you get distracted. Too much time in the office you get distracted.

hammerhead said:

---

NASAg03 said:

---

Rapier108 said:

---

Good, time to tell people to either come to work and do their job, or find other employment.

---

Ok boomer.

I've been working remote the past 4 years and have seen my salary raise 60% in that time, while starting my own consulting business, helping start a robotics company with 4 other remote guys spanning the US, and working for a space company that's aiming for a lunar landing next month.

And that company I helped start is now 40 strong and majority remote.

If you need to be supervised to work efficiently, then that's not efficient as it requires many more resources. Instead rethink your culture and business model.

---

So your have been working "full time" while starting a new business with 40 EE's and 3 partners while collecting a full time pay check from your "employeer"?

I think you answered the reason why they want EE's back in the office.

---

Reading comprehension is hard. I never said I was doing all of those things simultaneously, rather all those were accomplished while working from home.

I work 40 to 50hrs / week, typically 50 as I don't drive to work and thus work extra to compensate. And every few months I go into Houston for a week of hands-on work and meetings.

My current employer provides their Houston-based employees a hybrid setup as it is a hardware-based company. We also have a large site location in Maryland.

You want everyone to come in 5 days per week? Fine. You'll be limited to a workforce of a certain type of employee, willing to work in a certain city and proximity. You're greatly limiting your talent pool.

And I've been at companies that say "we don't do WFH, ever". They can do it, but aren't willing to. And they will lose their most talented employees to companies that do. And those same companies have employees that sit around, talk, drink the free coffee and snack on free food for hours a day with zero productivity. Or they run their side hustle of real estate, stock trading, or talking about their family and personal lives. All while the company is paying for expensive corporate real estate.

I get - not every company can do it. It's not physically possible. But when you require 100% of your workforce to work onsite, you will NOT get 100% efficiency or the best talent. That's a fact.

Lake08 said:

---

Crazy how 180 degrees have happened. Workers are literally mad because they have to go to an office and WORK!

---

You have the emphasis wrong.

It's:

Workers are literally mad because they have to GO TO AN OFFICE and work!

cecil77 said:

---

How to factory workers WFH? Warehouse employees? Any business requiring a service (like auto, tires, etc)? Retail? Food Service?

There are huge numbers of workers that actually have to be where the work is. So if you're a manufacturing company, it's tough for the white collar guys to get to WFH and not ever be there. Just doesn't work.

SOME interaction is beneficial in many, if not most businesses.

10 years ago the hybrid 2-3 days in the office model would have been unthinkable.

I would question any employee who doesn't want to ever come in. I'd probably go to printed paychecks that have to be picked up at the office...

---

10 years ago, the technology wasn't nearly as accommodating. Most of us work for big corporations with zero loyalty who see us just as replaceable tools. They push vile left wing woke BS and were going to fire those who refused the vaccine, until a judge finally stepped in.

Forgive some of us for wanting to spend more time with out loved ones, vs. two hours in the car each day.

Kids need their father's presence and influence in their lives more than ever these days. The new flex model is a good thing for that. One of the only good things to come out of Covid.

We get it though, you old codgers love to be away from home and to brag about how good you are at it!