aTmAg said:

---

Terminus Est said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Those 2 cities could have been 100% civilian and it would have been the right thing to do, as it caused them to surrender. An invasion would have killed VASTLY more people than the bombs did. When you START A WAR you risk the lives of your own citizens. That's why you are in the wrong, not the other side who is trying to stop your violence.

---

The end does not justify the means. You can't murder an innocent person to save 10. Thats Catholic morality 101

---

Another case of Catholic doctrine being wrong. Just like Francis on Marxism. It is immoral to take action that you KNOW will cause more people to die just so you can feel better about yourself.

---

So you have made yourself arbiter of Truth and morality. This is grave sin, repent and submit to Holy Mother Church.

Terminus Est said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

jkag89 said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

jkag89 said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

jkag89 said:

---

Quote:

---

He's their buddy. He knows he will always be safe. Otherwise, he would have been killed or expelled by Hamas long ago.

---

Do you realize that Pizzaballa is the Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem? What power would Hamas have in Jerusalem?

---

Read my post prior to yours.

---

I did. Anything to back up your claims? Where is the proof that he is buddy buddy with Hamas?

Quote:

---

The cardinal also condemned the "barbarism of Hamas as unacceptable and incomprehensible."

---

Hardly a something someone who is in cahoots with Hamas would say.

---

Just like AOC condemned the Hamas attack. But there is always a "but....." following.

---

So unless someone is 100% behind Israel they are automatically antisemitic?

---

You have the cause effect backward. People are antisemitic therefore they don't support Israel.

---

Is it possible to not support Israel without being an anti-Semite?

---

Only if one is also ignorant to basic history and lacks common sense.

Terminus Est said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Terminus Est said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Terminus Est said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Those 2 cities could have been 100% civilian and it would have been the right thing to do, as it caused them to surrender. An invasion would have killed VASTLY more people than the bombs did. When you START A WAR you risk the lives of your own citizens. That's why you are in the wrong, not the other side who is trying to stop your violence.

---

The end does not justify the means. You can't murder an innocent person to save 10. Thats Catholic morality 101

---

Another case of Catholic doctrine being wrong. Just like Francis on Marxism. It is immoral to take action that you KNOW will cause more people to die just so you can feel better about yourself.

---

Has nothing to do with feeling better about yourself and more to do with not committing murder.

Also, you're not disagreeing with Pope Francis here but with the entire Church.

Edit to add: just so I'm clear, you are telling me it is in fact moral to kill one person so 10 will live?

---

If that 1 person is trying to kill those 10, then hell yeah.

---

No, I said innocent person

---

That's not what's going on here or doing WW2.

aTmAg said:

---

Terminus Est said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Terminus Est said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Terminus Est said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Those 2 cities could have been 100% civilian and it would have been the right thing to do, as it caused them to surrender. An invasion would have killed VASTLY more people than the bombs did. When you START A WAR you risk the lives of your own citizens. That's why you are in the wrong, not the other side who is trying to stop your violence.

---

The end does not justify the means. You can't murder an innocent person to save 10. Thats Catholic morality 101

---

Another case of Catholic doctrine being wrong. Just like Francis on Marxism. It is immoral to take action that you KNOW will cause more people to die just so you can feel better about yourself.

---

Has nothing to do with feeling better about yourself and more to do with not committing murder.

Also, you're not disagreeing with Pope Francis here but with the entire Church.

Edit to add: just so I'm clear, you are telling me it is in fact moral to kill one person so 10 will live?

---

If that 1 person is trying to kill those 10, then hell yeah.

---

No, I said innocent person

---

That's not what's going on here or doing WW2.

---

Only a madman would think that there were no innocents in Hiroshima or Nagasaki

RebelE Infantry said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Terminus Est said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Those 2 cities could have been 100% civilian and it would have been the right thing to do, as it caused them to surrender. An invasion would have killed VASTLY more people than the bombs did. When you START A WAR you risk the lives of your own citizens. That's why you are in the wrong, not the other side who is trying to stop your violence.

---

The end does not justify the means. You can't murder an innocent person to save 10. Thats Catholic morality 101

---

Another case of Catholic doctrine being wrong. Just like Francis on Marxism. It is immoral to take action that you KNOW will cause more people to die just so you can feel better about yourself.

---

So you have made yourself arbiter of Truth and morality. This is grave sin, repent and submit to Holy Mother Church.

---

Look in them mirror, buddy. My way causes fewer to die. Your way first not. It's that simple.

aTmAg said:

---

RebelE Infantry said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Terminus Est said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Those 2 cities could have been 100% civilian and it would have been the right thing to do, as it caused them to surrender. An invasion would have killed VASTLY more people than the bombs did. When you START A WAR you risk the lives of your own citizens. That's why you are in the wrong, not the other side who is trying to stop your violence.

---

The end does not justify the means. You can't murder an innocent person to save 10. Thats Catholic morality 101

---

Another case of Catholic doctrine being wrong. Just like Francis on Marxism. It is immoral to take action that you KNOW will cause more people to die just so you can feel better about yourself.

---

So you have made yourself arbiter of Truth and morality. This is grave sin, repent and submit to Holy Mother Church.

---

Look in them mirror, buddy. My way causes fewer to die. Your way first not. It's that simple.

---

No, it is not that simple. What other Church doctrines do you reject?

Terminus Est said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Terminus Est said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Terminus Est said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Terminus Est said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Those 2 cities could have been 100% civilian and it would have been the right thing to do, as it caused them to surrender. An invasion would have killed VASTLY more people than the bombs did. When you START A WAR you risk the lives of your own citizens. That's why you are in the wrong, not the other side who is trying to stop your violence.

---

The end does not justify the means. You can't murder an innocent person to save 10. Thats Catholic morality 101

---

Another case of Catholic doctrine being wrong. Just like Francis on Marxism. It is immoral to take action that you KNOW will cause more people to die just so you can feel better about yourself.

---

Has nothing to do with feeling better about yourself and more to do with not committing murder.

Also, you're not disagreeing with Pope Francis here but with the entire Church.

Edit to add: just so I'm clear, you are telling me it is in fact moral to kill one person so 10 will live?

---

If that 1 person is trying to kill those 10, then hell yeah.

---

No, I said innocent person

---

That's not what's going on here or doing WW2.

---

Only a madman would think that there were no innocents in Hiroshima or Nagasaki

---

I never said that. Clearly infants weren't combatants. But when choosing between the death of 100,000 or millions, it's moral to choose 100,000. Thank God Truman understood that basic fact.

RebelE Infantry said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

RebelE Infantry said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Terminus Est said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Those 2 cities could have been 100% civilian and it would have been the right thing to do, as it caused them to surrender. An invasion would have killed VASTLY more people than the bombs did. When you START A WAR you risk the lives of your own citizens. That's why you are in the wrong, not the other side who is trying to stop your violence.

---

The end does not justify the means. You can't murder an innocent person to save 10. Thats Catholic morality 101

---

Another case of Catholic doctrine being wrong. Just like Francis on Marxism. It is immoral to take action that you KNOW will cause more people to die just so you can feel better about yourself.

---

So you have made yourself arbiter of Truth and morality. This is grave sin, repent and submit to Holy Mother Church.

---

Look in them mirror, buddy. My way causes fewer to die. Your way first not. It's that simple.

---

No, it is not that simple. What other Church doctrines do you reject?

---

Anything that causes a crap ton of people to die. You should try it.

aTmAg said:

---

Terminus Est said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Terminus Est said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Terminus Est said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Terminus Est said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Those 2 cities could have been 100% civilian and it would have been the right thing to do, as it caused them to surrender. An invasion would have killed VASTLY more people than the bombs did. When you START A WAR you risk the lives of your own citizens. That's why you are in the wrong, not the other side who is trying to stop your violence.

---

The end does not justify the means. You can't murder an innocent person to save 10. Thats Catholic morality 101

---

Another case of Catholic doctrine being wrong. Just like Francis on Marxism. It is immoral to take action that you KNOW will cause more people to die just so you can feel better about yourself.

---

Has nothing to do with feeling better about yourself and more to do with not committing murder.

Also, you're not disagreeing with Pope Francis here but with the entire Church.

Edit to add: just so I'm clear, you are telling me it is in fact moral to kill one person so 10 will live?

---

If that 1 person is trying to kill those 10, then hell yeah.

---

No, I said innocent person

---

That's not what's going on here or doing WW2.

---

Only a madman would think that there were no innocents in Hiroshima or Nagasaki

---

I never said that. Clearly infants weren't combatants. But when choosing between the death of 100,000 or millions, it's moral to choose 100,000. Thank God Truman understood that basic fact.

---

Again, it is not nor is it ever licit to commit evil (kill innocents) so that a good may come of it (save millions). This is the perennial and infallible teaching of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church to which YOU YOURSELF CLAIM TO BELONG.

This is the most elementary of moral teachings. Like day 1 right after they hand out the syllabus.

aTmAg said:

---

Terminus Est said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Terminus Est said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Terminus Est said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Terminus Est said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Those 2 cities could have been 100% civilian and it would have been the right thing to do, as it caused them to surrender. An invasion would have killed VASTLY more people than the bombs did. When you START A WAR you risk the lives of your own citizens. That's why you are in the wrong, not the other side who is trying to stop your violence.

---

The end does not justify the means. You can't murder an innocent person to save 10. Thats Catholic morality 101

---

Another case of Catholic doctrine being wrong. Just like Francis on Marxism. It is immoral to take action that you KNOW will cause more people to die just so you can feel better about yourself.

---

Has nothing to do with feeling better about yourself and more to do with not committing murder.

Also, you're not disagreeing with Pope Francis here but with the entire Church.

Edit to add: just so I'm clear, you are telling me it is in fact moral to kill one person so 10 will live?

---

If that 1 person is trying to kill those 10, then hell yeah.

---

No, I said innocent person

---

That's not what's going on here or doing WW2.

---

Only a madman would think that there were no innocents in Hiroshima or Nagasaki

---

I never said that. Clearly infants weren't combatants. But when choosing between the death of 100,000 or millions, it's moral to choose 100,000. Thank God Truman understood that basic fact.

---

I understand, you're saying sometimes you have to murder innocents for the greater good. Better that 1 innocent man sit in jail than 100,000 guilty men go free, correct?

aTmAg said:

---

RebelE Infantry said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

RebelE Infantry said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Terminus Est said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Those 2 cities could have been 100% civilian and it would have been the right thing to do, as it caused them to surrender. An invasion would have killed VASTLY more people than the bombs did. When you START A WAR you risk the lives of your own citizens. That's why you are in the wrong, not the other side who is trying to stop your violence.

---

The end does not justify the means. You can't murder an innocent person to save 10. Thats Catholic morality 101

---

Another case of Catholic doctrine being wrong. Just like Francis on Marxism. It is immoral to take action that you KNOW will cause more people to die just so you can feel better about yourself.

---

So you have made yourself arbiter of Truth and morality. This is grave sin, repent and submit to Holy Mother Church.

---

Look in them mirror, buddy. My way causes fewer to die. Your way first not. It's that simple.

---

No, it is not that simple. What other Church doctrines do you reject?

---

Anything that causes a crap ton of people to die. You should try it.

---

Hopefully you have never argued that you have a right to own a firearm when the left says that they have to take the guns so that less people will die. Believe it or not, the utilitarian argument should not always win.

aTmAg said:

---

RebelE Infantry said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

RebelE Infantry said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Terminus Est said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Those 2 cities could have been 100% civilian and it would have been the right thing to do, as it caused them to surrender. An invasion would have killed VASTLY more people than the bombs did. When you START A WAR you risk the lives of your own citizens. That's why you are in the wrong, not the other side who is trying to stop your violence.

---

The end does not justify the means. You can't murder an innocent person to save 10. Thats Catholic morality 101

---

Another case of Catholic doctrine being wrong. Just like Francis on Marxism. It is immoral to take action that you KNOW will cause more people to die just so you can feel better about yourself.

---

So you have made yourself arbiter of Truth and morality. This is grave sin, repent and submit to Holy Mother Church.

---

Look in them mirror, buddy. My way causes fewer to die. Your way first not. It's that simple.

---

No, it is not that simple. What other Church doctrines do you reject?

---

Anything that causes a crap ton of people to die. You should try it.

---

No. I give full assent of the will and submit to all dogmas and doctrines that Holy Mother Church demands. To do otherwise is to imperil one's immortal soul.

aTmAg said:

---

jkag89 said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

jkag89 said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

jkag89 said:

---

Quote:

---

He's their buddy. He knows he will always be safe. Otherwise, he would have been killed or expelled by Hamas long ago.

---

Do you realize that Pizzaballa is the Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem? What power would Hamas have in Jerusalem?

---

Read my post prior to yours.

---

I did. Anything to back up your claims? Where is the proof that he is buddy buddy with Hamas?

Quote:

---

The cardinal also condemned the "barbarism of Hamas as unacceptable and incomprehensible."

---

Hardly a something someone who is in cahoots with Hamas would say.

---

Just like AOC condemned the Hamas attack. But there is always a "but....." following.

---

So unless someone is 100% behind Israel they are automatically antisemitic?

---

You have the cause effect backward. People are antisemitic therefore they don't support Israel.

---

So if you don't completely agree with whatever action the modern nation-state of Israel takes one is an anti-Smite? Is this your position? I guess you were OK with Jonathan Pollard passing US secrets on to Israel?

aTmAg is one amyl popper away from remilitarizing the Rhineland and invading Poland "to save lives"

RebelE Infantry said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Terminus Est said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Terminus Est said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Terminus Est said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Terminus Est said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Those 2 cities could have been 100% civilian and it would have been the right thing to do, as it caused them to surrender. An invasion would have killed VASTLY more people than the bombs did. When you START A WAR you risk the lives of your own citizens. That's why you are in the wrong, not the other side who is trying to stop your violence.

---

The end does not justify the means. You can't murder an innocent person to save 10. Thats Catholic morality 101

---

Another case of Catholic doctrine being wrong. Just like Francis on Marxism. It is immoral to take action that you KNOW will cause more people to die just so you can feel better about yourself.

---

Has nothing to do with feeling better about yourself and more to do with not committing murder.

Also, you're not disagreeing with Pope Francis here but with the entire Church.

Edit to add: just so I'm clear, you are telling me it is in fact moral to kill one person so 10 will live?

---

If that 1 person is trying to kill those 10, then hell yeah.

---

No, I said innocent person

---

That's not what's going on here or doing WW2.

---

Only a madman would think that there were no innocents in Hiroshima or Nagasaki

---

I never said that. Clearly infants weren't combatants. But when choosing between the death of 100,000 or millions, it's moral to choose 100,000. Thank God Truman understood that basic fact.

---

Again, it is not nor is it ever licit to commit evil (kill innocents) so that a good may come of it (save millions). This is the perennial and infallible teaching of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church to which YOU YOURSELF CLAIM TO BELONG.

This is the most elementary of moral teachings. Like day 1 right after they hand out the syllabus.

---

Clearly the Church is sometimes wrong. Pope Pius XII clearly didn't do enough to fight the Holocaust, for example. Perhaps the Church should look inward and try to figure out where it has gone wrong. Teachings should follow common sense art a minimum.

RebelE Infantry said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

RebelE Infantry said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

RebelE Infantry said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Terminus Est said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Those 2 cities could have been 100% civilian and it would have been the right thing to do, as it caused them to surrender. An invasion would have killed VASTLY more people than the bombs did. When you START A WAR you risk the lives of your own citizens. That's why you are in the wrong, not the other side who is trying to stop your violence.

---

The end does not justify the means. You can't murder an innocent person to save 10. Thats Catholic morality 101

---

Another case of Catholic doctrine being wrong. Just like Francis on Marxism. It is immoral to take action that you KNOW will cause more people to die just so you can feel better about yourself.

---

So you have made yourself arbiter of Truth and morality. This is grave sin, repent and submit to Holy Mother Church.

---

Look in them mirror, buddy. My way causes fewer to die. Your way first not. It's that simple.

---

No, it is not that simple. What other Church doctrines do you reject?

---

Anything that causes a crap ton of people to die. You should try it.

---

No. I give full assent of the will and submit to all dogmas and doctrines that Holy Mother Church demands. To do otherwise is to imperil one's immortal soul.

---

Dude, there were some evil popes back in the day. Are you saying you would follow them blindly? You can't think for yourself and ask if X is really what God wants?

I got to sleep. Need to work for a living, as society needs defending from evil doors (and their apologists).

Terminus Est said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

Terminus Est said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

Terminus Est said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

Terminus Est said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

Terminus Est said:

---

https://www.foxnews.com/world/idf-confirm-incident-gaza-church-patriarch-says-2-christian-women-killed-convent-bombed

Looks like they've issued a small statement

Quote:

---

When reviewing incidents that may have taken place in the vicinity of churches in Gaza, it was found that an incident took place during yesterday afternoon (Saturday) in another area in Gaza, near the Latin Church in the Shejayia area," an IDF spokesperson told Fox News Digital in a statement.

The statement continued, "An initial review suggests that IDF troops, who were operating against Hamas terrorists in the area, operated against a threat that they identified in the area of the church. The IDF is conducting a thorough review of the incident."

---

We will see what they find

---

Well, you've said:

Quote:

---

The Israeli's are saying absolutely nothing about the situation. If anyone has a link to anything they've said about it, I'd like to see it

---

Earlier, you stated that:

Quote:

---

The Vatican News page says that the Israeli's justified it by claiming there was a rocket launcher in the Church

---

And it IS in their story.


So, the VN is saying ISRAEL SAYS there's a rocket launcher. And yet Israel has NOT said that.

So, either the VN is WRONG or they're LYING. Your choice.

---

Israel has not given any specifics, merely said they're investigating an incident near a Catholic Church where one of their groups "engaged a threat".

---

The Vatican News GAVE SPECIFICS. They said "The ongoing attack was reportedly justified by Israelis who claimed the presence of a rocket launcher in the parish."

So, where is the reported justification of there being a rocket launcher by the Israelis?

---

From reading the VN article, it seems someone told that to Cardinal Pizzaballa, but an official statement has not yet been made.

---

So, they don't know.

Maybe they shouldn't make accusations without confirmed information then.

You could also use that advice.

---

Who is saying they don't have confirmed information? I would imagine Cdl Pizzaballa has much more intel on this situation than we do

---

I am saying that.

He could be wrong. Or he could be lying.

I would imagine the IDF has much more intel on this situation than we do.

---

Yeah and if you read the extremely vague statement they're saying "something happened but it was because we were fighting terrorists in that area and were investigating"

---

But the Vatican says the Israelis claimed there was a rocket launcher. Where is that claim? And which Israelis made that claim?

The VN thought it was true enough to print it, they should have sources.

Terminus Est said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Those 2 cities could have been 100% civilian and it would have been the right thing to do, as it caused them to surrender. An invasion would have killed VASTLY more people than the bombs did. When you START A WAR you risk the lives of your own citizens. That's why you are in the wrong, not the other side who is trying to stop your violence.

---

The end does not justify the means. You can't murder an innocent person to save 10. Thats Catholic morality 101

---

No wonder my ancestors had a guy nail a list of complaints to a door.

And Italy has remained irrelevant for a long time.

I'll kill 1 to save 10 any day of the week. Thank God this country has been mostly led by Protestants. We'd all be speaking German and Japanese otherwise.

Y'all sound like a bunch of neocons who think they can bleed their own people endlessly of life and treasure and find some positive outcome. We always lose this way. Always.

Japan and Germany got what they had coming to them. Hamas is getting theirs.

Just like the Ukrainian faithful like to point out, Russia could stop their invasion anytime. Likewise, Hamas could stop attacking Israel anytime.

I never thought I would see Americans on F16 advocating for utilitarianism.

Staff must be on break. This thread is crazy to read.

Urban Ag said:

---

Terminus Est said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Those 2 cities could have been 100% civilian and it would have been the right thing to do, as it caused them to surrender. An invasion would have killed VASTLY more people than the bombs did. When you START A WAR you risk the lives of your own citizens. That's why you are in the wrong, not the other side who is trying to stop your violence.

---

The end does not justify the means. You can't murder an innocent person to save 10. Thats Catholic morality 101

---

No wonder my ancestors had a guy nail a list of complaints to a door.

And Italy has remained irrelevant for a long time.

I'll kill 1 to save 10 any day of the week. Thank God this country has been mostly led by Protestants. We'd all be speaking German and Japanese otherwise.

Y'all sound like a bunch of neocons who think they can bleed their own people endlessly of life and treasure and find some positive outcome. We always lose this way. Always.

Japan and Germany got what they had coming to them. Hamas is getting theirs.

Just like the Ukrainian faithful like to point out, Russia could stop their invasion anytime. Likewise, Hamas could stop attacking Israel anytime.

---

Just don't look into what that guy who nailed a list to the door had to say about the Jews.

Urban Ag said:

---

Terminus Est said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Those 2 cities could have been 100% civilian and it would have been the right thing to do, as it caused them to surrender. An invasion would have killed VASTLY more people than the bombs did. When you START A WAR you risk the lives of your own citizens. That's why you are in the wrong, not the other side who is trying to stop your violence.

---

The end does not justify the means. You can't murder an innocent person to save 10. Thats Catholic morality 101

---

No wonder my ancestors had a guy nail a list of complaints to a door.

And Italy has remained irrelevant for a long time.

I'll kill 1 to save 10 any day of the week. Thank God this country has been mostly led by Protestants. We'd all be speaking German and Japanese otherwise.

Y'all sound like a bunch of neocons who think they can bleed their own people endlessly of life and treasure and find some positive outcome. We always lose this way. Always.

Japan and Germany got what they had coming to them. Hamas is getting theirs.

Just like the Ukrainian faithful like to point out, Russia could stop their invasion anytime. Likewise, Hamas could stop attacking Israel anytime.

---

The religion that started the Spanish Inquisition shouldn't be talking about killing innocents...



Bet you didn't expect that...

zoneag said:

---

Urban Ag said:

---

Terminus Est said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Those 2 cities could have been 100% civilian and it would have been the right thing to do, as it caused them to surrender. An invasion would have killed VASTLY more people than the bombs did. When you START A WAR you risk the lives of your own citizens. That's why you are in the wrong, not the other side who is trying to stop your violence.

---

The end does not justify the means. You can't murder an innocent person to save 10. Thats Catholic morality 101

---

No wonder my ancestors had a guy nail a list of complaints to a door.

And Italy has remained irrelevant for a long time.

I'll kill 1 to save 10 any day of the week. Thank God this country has been mostly led by Protestants. We'd all be speaking German and Japanese otherwise.

Y'all sound like a bunch of neocons who think they can bleed their own people endlessly of life and treasure and find some positive outcome. We always lose this way. Always.

Japan and Germany got what they had coming to them. Hamas is getting theirs.

Just like the Ukrainian faithful like to point out, Russia could stop their invasion anytime. Likewise, Hamas could stop attacking Israel anytime.

---

Just don't look into what that guy who nailed a list to the door had to say about the Jews.

---

Too me that disqualifies Luther as person of the year 1527.

Ag with kids said:

---

Urban Ag said:

---

Terminus Est said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Those 2 cities could have been 100% civilian and it would have been the right thing to do, as it caused them to surrender. An invasion would have killed VASTLY more people than the bombs did. When you START A WAR you risk the lives of your own citizens. That's why you are in the wrong, not the other side who is trying to stop your violence.

---

The end does not justify the means. You can't murder an innocent person to save 10. Thats Catholic morality 101

---

No wonder my ancestors had a guy nail a list of complaints to a door.

And Italy has remained irrelevant for a long time.

I'll kill 1 to save 10 any day of the week. Thank God this country has been mostly led by Protestants. We'd all be speaking German and Japanese otherwise.

Y'all sound like a bunch of neocons who think they can bleed their own people endlessly of life and treasure and find some positive outcome. We always lose this way. Always.

Japan and Germany got what they had coming to them. Hamas is getting theirs.

Just like the Ukrainian faithful like to point out, Russia could stop their invasion anytime. Likewise, Hamas could stop attacking Israel anytime.

---

The religion that started the Spanish Inquisition shouldn't be talking about killing innocents...



Bet you didn't expect that...

---

Some people should not throw stones....

Quote:

---

Why Europe's wars of religion put 40,000 'witches' to a terrible death

---

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jan/07/witchcraft-economics-reformation-catholic-protestant-market-share#:~:text=The%20data%20shows%20that%20witch,switch%20to%20the%20new%20one.

Ain't religion grand?

$240 Worth of Pudding said:

---

Ain't religion grand?

---

It is, but people are not.

Humans love to take something good and use it for evil. It is our nature and human nature never changes and never will as long as we walk the Earth.

$240 Worth of Pudding said:

---

Ain't religion grand?

---

Yeah Atheistic 'Religions' such as Nazism and Communism killed millions not thousands. And those that murdered people violated their religions. Imagine the body counts in an Atheistic world. Oh wait we have bloody examples that drawf anything seen in the religious world-- not even close

Rapier is right. It not religion its humanity.

You may want to educate yourself a little. Things are more complicated than you think.

ttu_85 said:

---

$240 Worth of Pudding said:

---

Ain't religion grand?

---

Yeah Atheistic 'Religions' such as Nazism and Communism killed millions not thousands. And those that murdered people violated their religions. Imagine the body counts in an Atheistic world. Oh wait we have bloody examples that drawf anything seen in the religious world-- not even close

Rapier is right. It not religion its humanity.

You may want to educate yourself a little. Things are more complicated than you think.

---

I always love these replies. The automatic, Pavlovian jump to the Nazis and Communists.
As if those atrocities somehow make all of those committed in the name of religion justifiable and/or less disgusting.

And spare me your ridiculous attempt at looking down your nose. I was a pretty devout Catholic for over 40 years. This ain't my first rodeo.

Tergdor said:

---

I never thought I would see Americans on F16 advocating for utilitarianism.

Staff must be on break. This thread is crazy to read.

---

I found it to be fascinating, troubling, and insane all at the same time. I learned a lot. What these crazies are advocating is a tiny radical view. Every religion and ideology has them. There are Jewish radicals that want to kill. And as illustrated on this thread, Catholic crazies. And we protestants have nut jobs that want to kill Catholics and Jews. Again these are a tiny minority. Where as the radicals on the left, not so tiny as RECENT history clearly shows with 100 million killed by atheistic Communist in the 20th Century alone. And that doesn't include the nazi contribution.

All these radicals are insane no way do they have the ear of God whose first commandment is:

Love God with all your heart and soul AND love your neighbor as you love yourself. If this was followed nobody would be getting killed.

And the understanding that God gave people free will. You cant force your views on anyone. You can present your case for God and its up to the individual to believe or not. The nuts think they are the judge, failing to realize God is more than capable of performing that job. He doesnt need psychotic humans judging anything beyond what is HIS purview.

Its their lack of faith in God and His wisdom and ability that compels these nut job zealots to assume the job of judge, jury, and executioner.

Not reading 236 posts but who was the sniper? IDF or Hamas?

$240 Worth of Pudding said:

---

ttu_85 said:

---

$240 Worth of Pudding said:

---

Ain't religion grand?

---

Yeah Atheistic 'Religions' such as Nazism and Communism killed millions not thousands. And those that murdered people violated their religions. Imagine the body counts in an Atheistic world. Oh wait we have bloody examples that drawf anything seen in the religious world-- not even close

Rapier is right. It not religion its humanity.

You may want to educate yourself a little. Things are more complicated than you think.

---

I always love these replies. The automatic, Pavlovian jump to the Nazis and Communists.
As if those atrocities somehow make all of those committed in the name of religion justifiable and/or less disgusting.

And spare me your ridiculous attempt at looking down your nose. I was a pretty devout Catholic for over 40 years. This ain't my first rodeo.

---

Well they were Atheist. It is central theme of their doctrine . Sorry that upsets you so.

Just curious what made you no longer believe ?

ttu_85 said:

---

$240 Worth of Pudding said:

---

ttu_85 said:

---

$240 Worth of Pudding said:

---

Ain't religion grand?

---

Yeah Atheistic 'Religions' such as Nazism and Communism killed millions not thousands. And those that murdered people violated their religions. Imagine the body counts in an Atheistic world. Oh wait we have bloody examples that drawf anything seen in the religious world-- not even close

Rapier is right. It not religion its humanity.

---

I always love these replies. The automatic, Pavlovian jump to the Nazis and Communists.
As if those atrocities somehow make all of those committed in the name of religion justifiable and/or less disgusting.

And spare me your ridiculous attempt at looking down your nose. I was a pretty devout Catholic for over 40 years. This ain't my first rodeo.

---

Well they were Atheist. It is central theme of their doctrine . Sorry that upsets you so.

Just curious what made you no longer believe ?

---

Why would that upset me? You continue to prove my point.

As for why I no longer believe…..well, all I'll say is

Quote:

---

You may want to educate yourself a little. Things are more complicated than you think.

---

Old interview with Pizzabella. Maybe he's biased because of all he's seen and experienced. Still a cool name.

$240 Worth of Pudding said:

---

ttu_85 said:

---

$240 Worth of Pudding said:

---

ttu_85 said:

---

$240 Worth of Pudding said:

---

Ain't religion grand?

---

Yeah Atheistic 'Religions' such as Nazism and Communism killed millions not thousands. And those that murdered people violated their religions. Imagine the body counts in an Atheistic world. Oh wait we have bloody examples that drawf anything seen in the religious world-- not even close

Rapier is right. It not religion its humanity.

---

I always love these replies. The automatic, Pavlovian jump to the Nazis and Communists.
As if those atrocities somehow make all of those committed in the name of religion justifiable and/or less disgusting.

And spare me your ridiculous attempt at looking down your nose. I was a pretty devout Catholic for over 40 years. This ain't my first rodeo.

---

Well they were Atheist. It is central theme of their doctrine . Sorry that upsets you so.

Just curious what made you no longer believe ?

---

Why would that upset me? You continue to prove my point.

As for why I no longer believe…..well, all I'll say is

Quote:

---

You may want to educate yourself a little. Things are more complicated than you think.

---

---

Yes, I value education as well. I love how science continues to help validate my faith. Oh and history too. I guess it all depends on how you evaluate things. Like I said you made a choice and so did I. Free will is a wonderful thing. Best of luck !!

jt2hunt said:

---

Not reading 236 posts but who was the sniper? IDF or Hamas?

---

We still don't have confirmation yet, as far as I am aware. IDF says they were operating in the area but denies "targeting" the Catholic church, which isn't a denial that it was them that did it.