Responses below reflect better on the statement of the IDF>

This thread has delivered………….delivered some further insight into some posters' heads and confirmed some long held suspicions.

the same Catholic Bishop who supports Hamas and the Palestinian cause

and EXACTLY how would the Patriarch of JERUSALEM, a city located 70 miles away from Gaza

know that it was two IDF snipers that "killed" the "innocent" parishioners?!

what EXACT evidence do you have of this?

other than being on the side of Hamas.

jt2hunt said:

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I read where the IDF was in talks with the church and confirmed they were not involved. This is one side of the event.

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No, they did not claim they were not involved, they claim the Church hadn't mentioned anything about the shooting when they spoke earlier about an explosion.

LMCane said:

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and EXACTLY how would the Patriarch of JERUSALEM, a city located 70 miles away from Gaza

know that it was two IDF snipers that "killed" the "innocent" parishioners?!

what EXACT evidence do you have of this?

other than being on the side of Hamas.

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May I ask if you have a dog in this fight?

jt2hunt said:

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I read where the IDF was in talks with the church and confirmed they were not involved. This is one side of the event.

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I don't think that is exactly right. The IDF has admitted they have been operating in the area. You might be talking about this quote from the below linked article:

Quote:

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Stressing that the IDF "does not target civilians, no matter their religion," the army told AFP that it had on Saturday been contacted by church representatives about an incident in the Holy Family Parish, but "no reports of a hit on the church, nor civilians being injured or killed, were raised."

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https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-refutes-claim-it-targeted-sole-catholic-church-in-gaza-after-2-women-said-killed/

The bolded wording is so strange. They talked to people there about something that happened at the church but it wasn't about people being harmed? What the heck was being discussed?

And, again, their "denial" of the incident uses the word "target," which is not a denial that it happened.

Correct

LMCane said:

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other than being on the side of Hamas.

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This bit is so tired...

shack009 said:

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jt2hunt said:

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I read where the IDF was in talks with the church and confirmed they were not involved. This is one side of the event.

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I don't think that is exactly right. The IDF has admitted they have been operating in the area. You might be talking about this quote from the below linked article:

Quote:

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Stressing that the IDF "does not target civilians, no matter their religion," the army told AFP that it had on Saturday been contacted by church representatives about an incident in the Holy Family Parish, but "no reports of a hit on the church, nor civilians being injured or killed, were raised."

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https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-refutes-claim-it-targeted-sole-catholic-church-in-gaza-after-2-women-said-killed/

The bolded wording is so strange. They talked to people there about something that happened at the church but it wasn't about people being harmed? What the heck was being discussed?

And, again, their "denial" of the incident uses the word "target," which is not a denial that it happened.

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From the timeline the discussion was about the tank attacking the convent which happened earlier in the morning. The shooting happened around noon, which was after the Cardinal discussed the explosion with the IDF, which is why he had not mentioned the shooting.

shack009 said:

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jt2hunt said:

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Not reading 236 posts but who was the sniper? IDF or Hamas?

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We still don't have confirmation yet, as far as I am aware. IDF says they were operating in the area but denies "targeting" the Catholic church, which isn't a denial that it was them that did it.

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Well, you may recall a few years ago they shot a Palestian journalist. They were adamant that they didn't do it for weeks, or maybe months. Then finally admitted it was them.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/05/middleeast/idf-shireen-abu-akleh-investigation-intl/index.html

*Insert obligatory "I think Hamas is bad" or people will think I support them by calling out something Israel did"

LMCane said:

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and EXACTLY how would the Patriarch of JERUSALEM, a city located 70 miles away from Gaza

know that it was two IDF snipers that "killed" the "innocent" parishioners?!

what EXACT evidence do you have of this?

other than being on the side of Hamas.

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Why do you put "innocent" in quotes? What EXACT evidence do you have that the 83 year old woman and the other woman were not innocent?

And what EXACT evidence do you have of the Cardinal being "on the side of Hamas"?

zoneag said:

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LMCane said:

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and EXACTLY how would the Patriarch of JERUSALEM, a city located 70 miles away from Gaza

know that it was two IDF snipers that "killed" the "innocent" parishioners?!

what EXACT evidence do you have of this?

other than being on the side of Hamas.

---

Why do you put "innocent" in quotes? What EXACT evidence do you have that the 83 year old woman and the other woman were not innocent?

And what EXACT evidence do you have of the Cardinal being "on the side of Hamas"?

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He dared to criticize Israel and doesn't want Palestinian civilians to die. Also probably fails to call for the hostage release any chance he can get, and fails to constantly be telling everyone how bad Hamas is. That's like automatically proven to be pro-Hamas. Get with the program dude.

Terminus Est said:

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LMCane said:

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and EXACTLY how would the Patriarch of JERUSALEM, a city located 70 miles away from Gaza

know that it was two IDF snipers that "killed" the "innocent" parishioners?!

what EXACT evidence do you have of this?

other than being on the side of Hamas.

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May I ask if you have a dog in this fight?

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May I ask what your username was before October 13th, when this username was created?

You know, one week after the Hamas attack....

jrdaustin said:

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Terminus Est said:

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LMCane said:

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and EXACTLY how would the Patriarch of JERUSALEM, a city located 70 miles away from Gaza

know that it was two IDF snipers that "killed" the "innocent" parishioners?!

what EXACT evidence do you have of this?

other than being on the side of Hamas.

---

May I ask if you have a dog in this fight?

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May I ask what your username was before October 13th, when this username was created?

You know, one week after the Hamas attack....

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HamasJihadAg

Terminus Est said:

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jrdaustin said:

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Terminus Est said:

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LMCane said:

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and EXACTLY how would the Patriarch of JERUSALEM, a city located 70 miles away from Gaza

know that it was two IDF snipers that "killed" the "innocent" parishioners?!

what EXACT evidence do you have of this?

other than being on the side of Hamas.

---

May I ask if you have a dog in this fight?

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May I ask what your username was before October 13th, when this username was created?

You know, one week after the Hamas attack....

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HamasJihadAg

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Based on your posts on this thread - and yes, I read the whole thread - that doesn't seem too unrealistic.

Pity.

ttu_85 said:

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$240 Worth of Pudding said:

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Ain't religion grand?

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Yeah Atheistic 'Religions' such as Nazism and Communism killed millions not thousands. And those that murdered people violated their religions. Imagine the body counts in an Atheistic world. Oh wait we have bloody examples that drawf anything seen in the religious world-- not even close

Rapier is right. It not religion its humanity.

You may want to educate yourself a little. Things are more complicated than you think.

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Pseudoreligions and cults are indeed worse.

Ukraine and Hamas should be seen as part of the same Russian/Iranian campaign against Jews.

Unfortunately, Netanyahu supported Hamas indirectly through Qatar and had the plans on the 10/7 attacks well in advance. He allowed the degradation of Mossad and IDF away from an elite IC and fighting force. Bibi has to be held accountable.

jrdaustin said:

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Terminus Est said:

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LMCane said:

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and EXACTLY how would the Patriarch of JERUSALEM, a city located 70 miles away from Gaza

know that it was two IDF snipers that "killed" the "innocent" parishioners?!

what EXACT evidence do you have of this?

other than being on the side of Hamas.

---

May I ask if you have a dog in this fight?

---

May I ask what your username was before October 13th, when this username was created?

You know, one week after the Hamas attack....

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Dies Irae, Silian Rail, nuclear scramjet, etc. etc. etc. and originally Bustup.

Was it ever confirmed the two women were actually killed by IDF snipers? Have not seen this anywhere else.

akm91 said:

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Was it ever confirmed the two women were actually killed by IDF snipers? Have not seen this anywhere else.

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See about 15 posts up. Seems to still be "he said-he said."

Edit: Though Israel's "denial" is very deliberate about saying how they don't "target" civilians.

Actually I find IDF's statement very interesting:

Quote:

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Stressing that the IDF "does not target civilians, no matter their religion," the army told AFP that it had on Saturday been contacted by church representatives about an incident in the Holy Family Parish, but "no reports of a hit on the church, nor civilians being injured or killed, were raised."

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Which leads me to wonder:
1. Were people even killed in the church?
2. If so, were they Hamas terrorists posing as Christians hiding out in a church?

to combat the Hamas supporters and the Israel bashers:

Christian combat soldier sacrifices life for Israel: Sgt.-Maj. Urija Bayer
Sergeant-Major (Sgt.-Maj.) Urija Bayer was a Christian combat soldier in the IDF who lost his life in battle on Sunday. He was proud to serve in the IDF and defend Israel.
By MAAYAN JAFFE-HOFFMAN
DECEMBER 18, 2023 15:37

Sergeant-Major (Sgt.-Maj.) Urija Bayer succumbed to his wounds on Sunday after being seriously injured in battle in the southern Gaza Strip on December 14, the IDF reported.

Bayer, 20, from Ma'alot-Tarshiha, was a member of the Maglan special forces unit of the Nahal Brigade and a German Evangelical Christian who chose to volunteer in the army.

"He always wanted to be a combat soldier," a fellow Evangelical IDF volunteer told The Jerusalem Post on condition of anonymity. "He was a good combat soldier, focused on defending the State of Israel. He was a good person, too. Always smiling."

Proud to defend Israel
The soldier himself in combat said he was proud to be a volunteer and proud of his friend.

"At the end of the day, as Christians, we have to pay the highest price we can pay for this country. We are willing to give our lives for Israel," he said.

Bayer was the son of Nelli and Gideon Bayer, who run Zedakah. This German-Christian charity organization funds and runs the Bet Eliezer nursing home for Holocaust survivors in Ma'alot, in the Western Galilee.

His grandparents, Hans and Crystal Bayer, came to Israel in the late 1960s and opened the Beth El guest house in Shavei Zion a hotel that offered free stays for Holocaust survivors and their families.

Bet Eliezer is run entirely by Christian volunteers from Europe, who live in the facility with the residents. The Bayer family was originally from the Black Forest region of Germany, near Stuttgart.

Christians Who Fight for Israel

akm91 said:

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Actually I find IDF's statement very interesting:

Quote:

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Stressing that the IDF "does not target civilians, no matter their religion," the army told AFP that it had on Saturday been contacted by church representatives about an incident in the Holy Family Parish, but "no reports of a hit on the church, nor civilians being injured or killed, were raised."

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Which leads me to wonder:
1. Were people even killed in the church?
2. If so, were they Hamas terrorists posing as Christians hiding out in a church?

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I think there have been a few incidents there. First was their generator got hit, supposedly by a tank, earlier in the day.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67746432

What in the propaganda does this have to do with this thread?

And yes, I'm sure Israel believes that Christians should die for them.

zoneag said:

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LMCane said:

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and EXACTLY how would the Patriarch of JERUSALEM, a city located 70 miles away from Gaza

know that it was two IDF snipers that "killed" the "innocent" parishioners?!

what EXACT evidence do you have of this?

other than being on the side of Hamas.

---

Why do you put "innocent" in quotes? What EXACT evidence do you have that the 83 year old woman and the other woman were not innocent?

And what EXACT evidence do you have of the Cardinal being "on the side of Hamas"?

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Hey LM Cane since you're so concerned about EXACT evidence,

Why do you put "innocent" in quotes? What EXACT evidence do you have that the 83 year old woman and the other woman were not innocent?

And what EXACT evidence do you have of the Cardinal being "on the side of Hamas"?

Was it the tank or did Hamas blow it up to blame the IDF?

Terminus Est said:

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jrdaustin said:

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Terminus Est said:

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LMCane said:

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and EXACTLY how would the Patriarch of JERUSALEM, a city located 70 miles away from Gaza

know that it was two IDF snipers that "killed" the "innocent" parishioners?!

what EXACT evidence do you have of this?

other than being on the side of Hamas.

---

May I ask if you have a dog in this fight?

---

May I ask what your username was before October 13th, when this username was created?

You know, one week after the Hamas attack....

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HamasJihadAg

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Oh you're back! Shalom my friend.

I'm still wondering if the story that the good cardinal keeps repeating about those two poor Catholic ladies actually ever happened, let alone who did it if true. I know Hamas loves a good ol' fashioned killing, raping, and kidnapping, but are they really capable of shooting Christians?

Israel's ambassador to the Holy See accuses Patriarch of Jerusalem of "blood libel" for blaming IDF for the death of two women, although acknowledging the IDF might have done it by accident

Quote:

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Speaking to Crux, Raphael Schutz, Israel's ambassador to the Holy See said, "it might be true that the women were shot by IDF forces, although this has not been 100 percent established, but even if this is true, this has not been done by malice, or intentionally, it was a mistake like others during the war."

"In this context, I find it very annoying that the Latin Patriarchate in Jerusalem very fast, a few hours after the incident, without an inquiry, lashed into publishing a text naming Israel as a country of murder, the IDF as murderers in 'cold blood,' which is basically a blood libel. Nobody in Israel does that intentionally," he said.

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https://cruxnow.com/church-in-the-middle-east/2023/12/israeli-envoy-says-latin-patriarchate-guilty-of-blood-libel-for-accusations-on-gaza-parish/

Still waiting on proof.