Even most of the pro-Trump Republicans are opposed to Gaetz's antics.

Pro-Trump conservatives rail against Matt Gaetz over push to oust McCarthy: 'Self-destructive' | Fox News

McCarthy and the establishment GOPe are trying to frame the issue as a debate about the merits of the CR because they are at the end of the day perfectly fine with the "new" status quo way of doing appropriations.

IMO, restoring the House to "normal" appropriations process is a hill worth (proverbially) dying upon, as it is a necessary prerequisite to even having a chance (however small) of every restoring financial sanity to the US gov.

nortex97 said:

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The problem is the caucus, as a whole, of GOP Reps is not actually conservative. Maybe a fifth or a third are, but then there are moderates and then swamp critters in reddish districts who made there way to DC at various points and just want to get along/make their paychecks.

Michael Burgess is my rep, for instance, and while I'd put him closer to 'actual conservative' by votes I suspect he is…anything but a real leader seeking to push this into real budget cuts. He hasn't even issued a 'related statement' on the budget since 2019.

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Completely agree...

Gaetz is a self serving *****.

FireAg said:

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aggie93 said:

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Funky Winkerbean said:

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Quote:

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think the point is this battle should have been happening already and Gaetz has no plan

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Get it through your head that it's McCarthy who is screwing up the plan. Gaetz is simply holding him accountable to the promises McCarthy made in order to gain the speakership in the first place. Gaetz is responding as we should have been doing all along..people must be held accountable and it has to start sometime. Being passive during budget season has gotten us record debt. Explain why a conservative should not support this.

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Great. I didn't want McCarthy but if we are going to replace him we need a plan because just removing him without one could be an absolute disaster. There are a lot worse options and this is a very dangerous game with a 5 vote majority.

BTW, Trump wanted to remind everyone he is happy that McCarthy said nice things about him because that is what is most important of course.

Trump says he doesn’t want to discuss holding McCarthy accountable for a year of failure, because “he said very nice things about me this morning.” Nothing gets in the way of the ego, plebes. pic.twitter.com/TKEGytEJrs

— Steve Deace (@SteveDeaceShow) October 2, 2023

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Who cares what Trump says on this issue?!? He has now power right now...

I care about who can solve these issues right now, not in 2025...

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Are you serious? Trump makes one phone call to Gaetz and he either gets him to stop or gets him to go forward. Gaetz will do anything Trump tells him to. Trump can sway that crowd however he likes and he likes to play both sides. Gaetz is probably the biggest Trump supporter in the House. Trump can choose to make this thing blow up or end it.

Furlock Bones said:

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Gaetz is a self serving *****.

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In what way is standing on a political island self serving? You think this is going to win people over? I frankly don't see what Gaetz gets out of this other than standing up for his principles and expecting others to do the same.

Gaetz is principled
Self serving would be to sell out and go along with one party rulings

C@LAg said:

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aggie93 said:

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FireAg said:

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Not going to derail this thread...but many of you hear what you want to hear, and you don't listen to what some people are actually saying...

That's one of the biggest issues in American society today...

You assume before you listen...

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I'm just making sure people know that the reason we have McCarthy is Trump and thus this is a Trump v DeSantis issue. DeSantis has never supported McCarthy going back to his days in the House when he was fighting with McCarthy and Ryan.

You seem to be trying to make this argument that you support DeSantis but this isn't about Trump and somehow people that support DeSantis are in the wrong for bringing it up. As a DeSantis supporter you also bring up every negative poll you can find on DeSantis and talk about how hopeless everything is for him often. You agreeing with DeSantis here is one of the few times I have seen you post positively about DeSantis but even then you are making sure to point out this has nothing to do with him and Trump even though their opinions are on opposite sides.

To me I see Trump as a big source of these problems because he endorsed folks like Romney, McDaniel, Graham, McCarthy, and Ryan and his only real concern isn't about their performance but what they say about him personally. DeSantis is all about policy and results. Yet it seems most people can't see that contrast and I think it is important to point it out to them over and over until hopefully they open their eyes.

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no, this is 100% solely all about gaetz and his play for relevancy.

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Gaetz is controlled by Trump. This is all a game to play both sides.

So it's done, right? McCarthy is out? 216-210

Yes: 208 Dems, 8 Reps
No: 0 Dems, 210 Reps
No shows: 4 Dems, 3 Reps

Again, if you are pro-DeSantis and defending pro-Trump McCarthy, who is supported by all pro-Trump R's, you have no business lecturing pro-Trump folks on this forum moving forward because they supported some but not everything that the man did/stood for in office...

You can't lecture about "conservative principles" and then defend a man who is not a conservative (by your standards), and further, is endorsed and supported by the alleged anti-Christ of conservatism...

You can't have it both ways, if others can't either...

aggie93 said:

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C@LAg said:

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aggie93 said:

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FireAg said:

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Not going to derail this thread...but many of you hear what you want to hear, and you don't listen to what some people are actually saying...

That's one of the biggest issues in American society today...

You assume before you listen...

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I'm just making sure people know that the reason we have McCarthy is Trump and thus this is a Trump v DeSantis issue. DeSantis has never supported McCarthy going back to his days in the House when he was fighting with McCarthy and Ryan.

You seem to be trying to make this argument that you support DeSantis but this isn't about Trump and somehow people that support DeSantis are in the wrong for bringing it up. As a DeSantis supporter you also bring up every negative poll you can find on DeSantis and talk about how hopeless everything is for him often. You agreeing with DeSantis here is one of the few times I have seen you post positively about DeSantis but even then you are making sure to point out this has nothing to do with him and Trump even though their opinions are on opposite sides.

To me I see Trump as a big source of these problems because he endorsed folks like Romney, McDaniel, Graham, McCarthy, and Ryan and his only real concern isn't about their performance but what they say about him personally. DeSantis is all about policy and results. Yet it seems most people can't see that contrast and I think it is important to point it out to them over and over until hopefully they open their eyes.

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no, this is 100% solely all about gaetz and his play for relevancy.

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Gaetz is controlled by Trump. This is all a game to play both sides.

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That's a very bold comment passed along as fact...please back this up with evidence...

McCarthy was endorsed by Trump, and McCarthy speaks glowingly of the former POTUS...

He's out

jt2hunt said:

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Gaetz is principled
Self serving would be to sell out and go along with one party rulings

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Gaetz's principles are whatever Trump tells him they are, or in the absence of orders from Trump, whatever gets him the most media attention.

Martin Q. Blank said:

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So it's done, right? McCarthy is out? 216-210

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Yes. The office is vacant.

So all of the self proclaimed "true conservatives" and their Democrats allies got what they want.

None of you have the right to complain when the next speaker is elected with Democrat votes, and goes along with whatever they want.

Y-216
N-210

Speaker declared vacant

McCarthy is a clown
Gaetz is a clown

Whoever replaces McCarthy will be a clown as well. Replacing him won't fix or change anything.

samurai_science said:

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I don't care about principles, I just want someone in the speaker position that will grind Democrats to dust.

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Won't happen with a 5 vote majority, and 5-10 idiots who will pull this same stunt whenever they feel slighted.

Gone!

When you give your word, keep it.

Mccarthy gone

So now instead of governing and solving the budget, the Rs will spend another 2 weeks on speaker votes and more infighting within the party.

Dude got ousted for working with the senate. And people wonder why Ds win elections. Rs cant get out of their own way.

45-70Ag said:

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McCarthy is a clown
Gaetz is a clown

Whoever replaces McCarthy will be a clown as well. Replacing him won't fix or change anything.

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That is highly likely... but that doesn't mean it isn't worth it to try.

Just keep grinding.... and if you fail... grind, grind again.

Rapier108 said:

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So all of the self proclaimed "true conservatives" and their Democrats allies got what they want.

None of you have the right to complain when the next speaker is elected with Democrat votes, and goes along with whatever they want.

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The Dems aren't negotiating with anyone.

aggiehawg said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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So it's done, right? McCarthy is out? 216-210

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Yes. The office is vacant.

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Great job Gaetz.

Now let's see if the GOP will unite behind a conservative that sticks to their platform and promises or if they make excuses for not having everyone aligned in furthering their establishment track record. If the GOP devolves into chaos and the D's come out ahead, then the GOP proved they were establishment hacks and Gaetz was right.

nhamp07 said:

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So now instead of governing and solving the budget, the Rs will spend another 2 weeks on speaker votes and more infighting within the party.

Dude got ousted for working with the senate. And people wonder why Ds win elections. Rs cant get out of their own way.

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LOL

Tea Party said:

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aggie93 said:

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Tea Party said:

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Faustus said:

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will25u said:

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10 Republicans who voted against Speaker McCarthy:

Biggs
Buck
Burchett
Crane
Davidson
Gaetz
Good
Mace
Rosendale
Spartz

— Insider Paper (@TheInsiderPaper) October 3, 2023

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So 10 or so Republicans and all 200 plus Dems were able to torpedo the House Bill and oust the Speaker.

But it's the 200 Rs who are RINOs and the other 10 voting with the Dems are the true conservatives.

Fun stuff.

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A large portion of the GOP talks a great conservative game, but lacks the motivation or care to actually enact it.

I don't know if true, but it sure appears like they enjoy playing footsy with the Democrats hence the growing endorsement from the populace that the GOP enjoys being in the minority and gets little done with in the majority.

The better analogy you should be making is that:
* 200 R's want to keep the status quo,
* 10 R's want to make the GOP start enacting conservative policy or at a minimum not concede as much.
* and the 200 D's want to watch the GOP implode because they know a large portion of the 200 R's are in support of the establishment.

The best way out of this is to use the D's over-confidence against them and oust McCarthy and put a better conservative leader in his place. The D's assume that won't happen and they are likely right based on the amount of bending over backwards the "conservatives" do to support McCarthy and blame Gaetz.

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We already had that battle. We didn't win enough seats to get a true conservative Speaker so McCarthy was the compromise. The time to fight that was then and some did and got some concessions. In the end though if you seriously think getting rid of McCarthy over this bill is smart you just aren't being very objective. It's horrific strategy and it could easily backfire. The odds are better we end up with a Dem Speaker than we get a real conservative pulling this stunt.

The day Trump decided to back McCarthy during the Speaker race this was all moot, he cut his own deal and sold out conservatives. Did the same thing with McDaniel and is doing the same thing with Graham.

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McCarthy was the compromise because the ~200 R's are ok being the submissive half of the establishment, or they were falsely led that McCarthy was actually going to lead conservative policy as promised.

Ousting McCarthy is the small minorty of the GOP that cares for accountability and either enacting conservative ideology or at worst not conceding to the left. Just because the establishment won last time with McCarthy does not mean we just give up caring about enacting conservative policy.

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Look at what is really happening here and ignore the rhetoric. Who controls the power and how the votes happen. Gaetz is Trump's pawn and is proud to be. When Trump endorsed McCarthy it set up a situation where there would not be enough conservatives willing to stick their neck out to defeat him but at the same time Trump had Gaetz pushing McCarthy so he could get conservatives thinking he was on their side even though he was literally endorsing McCarthy and whipping votes for him.

It's all a game and the real battle happened during the first Speaker fight, this is for show and very dangerous because there is no one waiting in the wings to take the Speaker's job and a very real chance a handful of true RINOs decide to say FU to Gaetz and Trump and join with the Dems to get their guy.

Tea Party said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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So it's done, right? McCarthy is out? 216-210

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Yes. The office is vacant.

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Great job Gaetz.

Now let's see if the GOP will unite behind a conservative that sticks to their platform and promises or if they make excuses for not having everyone aligned in furthering their establishment track record. If the GOP devolves into chaos and the D's come out ahead, then the GOP proved they were establishment hacks and Gaetz was right.

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When whoever it is (likely selected by the Democrats), you'll be whining about that and blaming everyone but Gaetz and his band of kamikazes.

Rapier108 said:

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jt2hunt said:

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Gaetz is principled
Self serving would be to sell out and go along with one party rulings

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Gaetz's principles are whatever Trump tells him they are, or in the absence of orders from Trump, whatever gets him the most media attention.

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Hope this makes you feel better because it does not make it the truth.

Logos Stick said:

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Rapier108 said:

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So all of the self proclaimed "true conservatives" and their Democrats allies got what they want.

None of you have the right to complain when the next speaker is elected with Democrat votes, and goes along with whatever they want.

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The Dems aren't negotiating with anyone.

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Dems dropped the Ukraine funding from the CR to get the CR.

nhamp07 said:

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So now instead of governing and solving the budget, the Rs will spend another 2 weeks on speaker votes and more infighting within the party.

Dude got ousted for working with the senate. And people wonder why Ds win elections. Rs cant get out of their own way.

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"solving the budget", how would that happen with the Democrat Senate and Whitehouse? You do know how the process works right?

Rapier108 said:

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samurai_science said:

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I don't care about principles, I just want someone in the speaker position that will grind Democrats to dust.

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Won't happen with a 5 vote majority, and 5-10 idiots who will pull this same stunt whenever they feel slighted.

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Those 5-10 Rs won't be able to keep vanquishing speakers without all the Dems backing their plays. Handy weapon to have in their pocket.

So which Democrat will be the next speaker?

nhamp07 said:

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So now instead of governing and solving the budget, the Rs will spend another 2 weeks on speaker votes and more infighting within the party.

Dude got ousted for working with the senate. And people wonder why Ds win elections. Rs cant get out of their own way.

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Maaaaybe they can argue for more than 45-days and thus delay another CR and shut down the government that way...