and I don't ever recall *****ing about the previous generation and how good they had it.

we just dealt with the hand we had.

If you don't support politicians that are fiscal conservative (and there aren't many left), then you're adding to the problem.

gbaby23 said:

---

Maybe you should not take criticisms of a declining economy as a personal attack on your work ethic.

---

I'm not taking anything personally. I'm painting a picture.

And the economy is a result of the government nanny state. The larger the government, the more the economy is going to be inefficient.

Every time they do "good" it causes harm.

And the idea that everything should be easy and handed to someone is part of the problem. It's a narrative that liberals sell . A livable wage. A "livable wage" Bernie Sanders.. creates inefficiencies in the economy.

yet the younger generations vote for this stuff

Affordable home OWNERSHIP as pointed out earlier is an American centric concept and a bit of a falsehood in and of itself (as long as there is eminent domain and property taxes, you never truly own your home and the dirt it sits on).

However, the current push for this is less about the idea of pretending you own your own home but is viewed as an inherent right for everyone as it does (or has) become a tool for building wealth.

But government manipulating the market in this area is no different than universal healthcare, free college education, and universal basic income, none of which are very capitalistic concepts.

You know, I've wondered what how much our pop culture has to do with expectations...

Look at HGTV, sit coms, movies and other media...even most "poor" people as depicted on such shows live in relatively nice places and typically have all the gadgets one could desire.

It's pretty rare to see a character who is supposed to be less wealthy living in a realistic condition

I bought a 2nd home to be used as my home office with a 500K note @3.6% loan 30 yr conventional. P&I ($2250), Escrow ($1250).

So $3500/month or $40k/yr.

If I bought it today with the same 500K loan at 8% (Investment property rate) is $3670/month for P&I so $4920/month or 59K.

The change in interest rates really makes it much more difficult to afford. $19k/yr is a large amount for most people.

PLUS, you can only save $$$ after you go well above the living expense threshold. People making 70K will essentially be able to save nothing in a city like Austin. Only after you go above 100K are you really saving much. And Yes, I understand you can live like a homeless person and save money making 50K, but most want to actually enjoy life alittle.

Medaggie said:

---

I bought a 2nd home to be used as my home office with a 500K note @3.6% loan 30 yr conventional. P&I ($2250), Escrow ($1250).

So $3500/month or $40k/yr.

If I bought it today with the same 500K loan at 8% (Investment property rate) is $3670/month for P&I so $4920/month or 59K.

The change in interest rates really makes it much more difficult to afford. $19k/yr is a large amount for most people.

---

makes a huge difference which is why demand will get hit and prices will likely stabilize or drop, actually they are already dropping in places like Austin and Austin burbs

txaggieacct85 said:

---

gbaby23 said:

---

Maybe you should not take criticisms of a declining economy as a personal attack on your work ethic.

---

I'm not taking anything personally. I'm painting a picture.

And the economy is a result of the government nanny state. The larger the government, the more the economy is going to be inefficient.

Every time they do "good" it causes harm.

And the idea that everything should be easy and handed to someone is part of the problem. It's a narrative that liberals sell . A livable wage. A "livable wage" Bernie Sanders.. creates inefficiencies in the economy.

yet the younger generations vote for this stuff

---

Did the younger generations vote for the chart in the OP?
The younger generations didnt get a TARP bailout, auto maker bailout, pension (PGBC) bailout which propped up our home values and 401k balances, but we certainly did.

txaggieacct85 said:

---

gbaby23 said:

---

Maybe you should not take criticisms of a declining economy as a personal attack on your work ethic.

---

I'm not taking anything personally. I'm painting a picture.

And the economy is a result of the government nanny state. The larger the government, the more the economy is going to be inefficient.

Every time they do "good" it causes harm.

And the idea that everything should be easy and handed to someone is part of the problem. It's a narrative that liberals sell . A livable wage. A "livable wage" Bernie Sanders.. creates inefficiencies in the economy.

yet the younger generations vote for this stuff

---

I would hazard a guess that most people you are arguing with on this thread are not Bernie supporters or even Democrats.

And yes, you are taking things quite personally when you are replying to everyone pouring out your life story to prove to everyone that it wasn't all sunshine and rainbows when you were a first time homebuyer. However, I do understand your frustration. It is not easy to listen to Boomers say the same type of stuff of Millennials without the urge to prove them wrong with my own personal story.

No one is saying your life was, or is, easy. However, there are quantifiable and observable metrics that show the economy is getting worse. It was getting worse when you were a young man, but it is also cumulative. The goal should be improvement every generation, not decline. That does not mean that young men of today are not working hard to deal with it while looking for solutions to the problem.

"Living wage" is a good trick by the left because that should be the goal. We should be working to cultivate a society where every man is able to live well. I just do not agree with their methods for getting there.

The generational blame is just ridiculous, but it is entertaining to watch young and old blame each other for problems that are out of their control. One generation raises another. We are not independent of each other. The circumstances that shape the young are put in place by the old. Although, politicians are the ones who create the circumstances and they very rarely listen to what the people actually want.

Personally, I think a lot of complaints from younger generations comes from a subconscious yearning for the culture and community that has eroded faster than our economy has declined. People would be willing to deal with more hardship if our society was healthier overall.

tysker said:

---

txaggieacct85 said:

---

gbaby23 said:

---

Maybe you should not take criticisms of a declining economy as a personal attack on your work ethic.

---

I'm not taking anything personally. I'm painting a picture.

And the economy is a result of the government nanny state. The larger the government, the more the economy is going to be inefficient.

Every time they do "good" it causes harm.

And the idea that everything should be easy and handed to someone is part of the problem. It's a narrative that liberals sell . A livable wage. A "livable wage" Bernie Sanders.. creates inefficiencies in the economy.

yet the younger generations vote for this stuff

---

Did the younger generations vote for the chart in the OP?
The younger generations didnt get a TARP bailout, auto maker bailout, pension (PGBC) bailout which propped up our home values and 401k balances, but we certainly did.

---

They sure as **** got about 10x that in COVID bailout, so I shed no tears.

Quote:

---

They sure as **** got about 10x that in COVID bailout, so I shed no tears.

---

Now, we are the parents

fka ftc said:

---

Tex117 said:

---

Because they all way to believe that they got there because they were "smart" and "good ol hard work" blah blah.

I'm sure they did do that, but had certain economic factors behind their control that either hurt or helped them.

So weird that they don't just admit this. And moreover, just how stupid real estate people can be.

---

So you want a participation ribbon that includes a house?

Many people either suck it up during hard times and bite the bullet to purchase a house or they recognize an opportunity and buy a house. Really smart people take a bigger risk during hard times to take advantage of a buyer's opportunity.

I think our first mortgage in 2005 was 5.375% or thereabouts. That limited our buying options and limited our budget to furnish it.

Smart and good ol hard work are not all it takes, but those things make you prepare for when opportunities do present themselves. We could have bought a bigger houses and stretched our budget. But I would not have been able to save money so that in 2009 when an opportunity to start a business came along, I had barely enough to buy in.

Not spending ridiculous when the business was paying me well allowed me to buy out my partners. That then allowed me to set the terms with those same partners when a new, much larger business opportunity presented itself.

Was I lucky? To an extent. But without smarts and hard work I would not have had a seat at the table when lady luck and senor opportunity showed up.

Quit blaming your problems on others.

---

You are proving my point. And your reading comprehension seems to be lacking. You just can't admit that there were some favorable macro economic conditions. Read again my post. Its not about the individual but the generational. Just accept it. If not, you are literally ignoring facts to support your world view, or even the view of yourself. And that's what sad.

And why do you assume anything about my ownership?

txaggieacct85 said:

---

Ted Lasso said:

---

Except home prices were much closer to wages back then. Big difference.

---

no they weren't. you are just looking through the lens of entitlement

---

No, its that you haven't recognized your own position due to economic forces that were favorable. We aren't speaking individually. We are speaking generationally. This is where the rubber meets the road. You type of people refuse to acknowledge macro economics that were favorable at the time. It doesn't diminish hard work or anything like that (but you think it does).

And don't bother responding until you can discuss hph6203 on the first page.

txaggieacct85 said:

---

Medaggie said:

---

I bought a 2nd home to be used as my home office with a 500K note @3.6% loan 30 yr conventional. P&I ($2250), Escrow ($1250).

So $3500/month or $40k/yr.

If I bought it today with the same 500K loan at 8% (Investment property rate) is $3670/month for P&I so $4920/month or 59K.

The change in interest rates really makes it much more difficult to afford. $19k/yr is a large amount for most people.

---

makes a huge difference which is why demand will get hit and prices will likely stabilize or drop, actually they are already dropping in places like Austin and Austin burbs

---

Austin has gone down prob 15% since its peak and prob more to go down. If someone can weather higher payments, I think there is a good buying opportunity in 12 months and then refi when rates go down, pocketing 100-200K equity.

The 2-4% interest rates are keeping people from selling but taxes/insurance keeps going up. Once rates, go down, you will see lots of selling.

gbaby23 said:

---

txaggieacct85 said:

---

gbaby23 said:

---

Maybe you should not take criticisms of a declining economy as a personal attack on your work ethic.

---

I'm not taking anything personally. I'm painting a picture.

And the economy is a result of the government nanny state. The larger the government, the more the economy is going to be inefficient.

Every time they do "good" it causes harm.

And the idea that everything should be easy and handed to someone is part of the problem. It's a narrative that liberals sell . A livable wage. A "livable wage" Bernie Sanders.. creates inefficiencies in the economy.

yet the younger generations vote for this stuff

---

I would hazard a guess that most people you are arguing with on this thread are not Bernie supporters or even Democrats.

And yes, you are taking things quite personally when you are replying to everyone pouring out your life story to prove to everyone that it wasn't all sunshine and rainbows when you were a first time homebuyer. However, I do understand your frustration. It is not easy to listen to Boomers say the same type of stuff of Millennials without the urge to prove them wrong with my own personal story.

No one is saying your life was, or is, easy. However, there are quantifiable and observable metrics that show the economy is getting worse. It was getting worse when you were a young man, but it is also cumulative. The goal should be improvement every generation, not decline. That does not mean that young men of today are not working hard to deal with it while looking for solutions to the problem.

"Living wage" is a good trick by the left because that should be the goal. We should be working to cultivate a society where every man is able to live well. I just do not agree with their methods for getting there.

The generational blame is just ridiculous, but it is entertaining to watch young and old blame each other for problems that are out of their control. One generation raises another. We are not independent of each other. The circumstances that shape the young are put in place by the old. Although, politicians are the ones who create the circumstances and they very rarely listen to what the people actually want.

Personally, I think a lot of complaints from younger generations comes from a subconscious yearning for the culture and community that has eroded faster than our economy has declined. People would be willing to deal with more hardship if our society was healthier overall.

---

This is a really insightful post. The last paragraph especially.

Tex117 said:

---

fka ftc said:

---

Tex117 said:

---

Because they all way to believe that they got there because they were "smart" and "good ol hard work" blah blah.

I'm sure they did do that, but had certain economic factors behind their control that either hurt or helped them.

So weird that they don't just admit this. And moreover, just how stupid real estate people can be.

---

So you want a participation ribbon that includes a house?

Many people either suck it up during hard times and bite the bullet to purchase a house or they recognize an opportunity and buy a house. Really smart people take a bigger risk during hard times to take advantage of a buyer's opportunity.

I think our first mortgage in 2005 was 5.375% or thereabouts. That limited our buying options and limited our budget to furnish it.

Smart and good ol hard work are not all it takes, but those things make you prepare for when opportunities do present themselves. We could have bought a bigger houses and stretched our budget. But I would not have been able to save money so that in 2009 when an opportunity to start a business came along, I had barely enough to buy in.

Not spending ridiculous when the business was paying me well allowed me to buy out my partners. That then allowed me to set the terms with those same partners when a new, much larger business opportunity presented itself.

Was I lucky? To an extent. But without smarts and hard work I would not have had a seat at the table when lady luck and senor opportunity showed up.

Quit blaming your problems on others.

---

You are proving my point. And your reading comprehension seems to be lacking.

And why do you assume anything about my ownership?

---

No, I think I proved the opposite. I got what I got by being smart and working hard. Had an original partner in the business and he was Harvard smart, but not willing to work hard. Let's say I did a bit better than he did on the whole deal.

Have no idea what you question is about, as I assumed nothing about you. I observed that you want a participation ribbon that includes a house and you seem to want to blame macro forces and avoid personal responsibility.

Glad to have clarified for you.

Tex117 said:

---

gbaby23 said:

---

txaggieacct85 said:

---

gbaby23 said:

---

Maybe you should not take criticisms of a declining economy as a personal attack on your work ethic.

---

I'm not taking anything personally. I'm painting a picture.

And the economy is a result of the government nanny state. The larger the government, the more the economy is going to be inefficient.

Every time they do "good" it causes harm.

And the idea that everything should be easy and handed to someone is part of the problem. It's a narrative that liberals sell . A livable wage. A "livable wage" Bernie Sanders.. creates inefficiencies in the economy.

yet the younger generations vote for this stuff

---

I would hazard a guess that most people you are arguing with on this thread are not Bernie supporters or even Democrats.

And yes, you are taking things quite personally when you are replying to everyone pouring out your life story to prove to everyone that it wasn't all sunshine and rainbows when you were a first time homebuyer. However, I do understand your frustration. It is not easy to listen to Boomers say the same type of stuff of Millennials without the urge to prove them wrong with my own personal story.

No one is saying your life was, or is, easy. However, there are quantifiable and observable metrics that show the economy is getting worse. It was getting worse when you were a young man, but it is also cumulative. The goal should be improvement every generation, not decline. That does not mean that young men of today are not working hard to deal with it while looking for solutions to the problem.

"Living wage" is a good trick by the left because that should be the goal. We should be working to cultivate a society where every man is able to live well. I just do not agree with their methods for getting there.

The generational blame is just ridiculous, but it is entertaining to watch young and old blame each other for problems that are out of their control. One generation raises another. We are not independent of each other. The circumstances that shape the young are put in place by the old. Although, politicians are the ones who create the circumstances and they very rarely listen to what the people actually want.

Personally, I think a lot of complaints from younger generations comes from a subconscious yearning for the culture and community that has eroded faster than our economy has declined. People would be willing to deal with more hardship if our society was healthier overall.

---

This is a really insightful post. The last paragraph especially.

---

No way dude. You will own nothing and be happy. Just like Europeans.

Sims said:

---

techno-ag said:

---

What did we ever do back when the interest rates were near 18%?

Oh yeah, I remember. We saved up for 20% down (about 12k for the average house costing app. $61k), didn't buy more than we could afford, and refinanced when rates went down.

---

Edited for historical context.

---

In 1982-3, houses were overpriced, cheaply built, and interest rates at 12.5%. I purchased a patio home for $65K, monthly payments, 25% of our income.

fka ftc said:

---

Tex117 said:

---

fka ftc said:

---

Tex117 said:

---

Because they all way to believe that they got there because they were "smart" and "good ol hard work" blah blah.

I'm sure they did do that, but had certain economic factors behind their control that either hurt or helped them.

So weird that they don't just admit this. And moreover, just how stupid real estate people can be.

---

So you want a participation ribbon that includes a house?

Many people either suck it up during hard times and bite the bullet to purchase a house or they recognize an opportunity and buy a house. Really smart people take a bigger risk during hard times to take advantage of a buyer's opportunity.

I think our first mortgage in 2005 was 5.375% or thereabouts. That limited our buying options and limited our budget to furnish it.

Smart and good ol hard work are not all it takes, but those things make you prepare for when opportunities do present themselves. We could have bought a bigger houses and stretched our budget. But I would not have been able to save money so that in 2009 when an opportunity to start a business came along, I had barely enough to buy in.

Not spending ridiculous when the business was paying me well allowed me to buy out my partners. That then allowed me to set the terms with those same partners when a new, much larger business opportunity presented itself.

Was I lucky? To an extent. But without smarts and hard work I would not have had a seat at the table when lady luck and senor opportunity showed up.

Quit blaming your problems on others.

---

You are proving my point. And your reading comprehension seems to be lacking.

And why do you assume anything about my ownership?

---

No, I think I proved the opposite. I got what I got by being smart and working hard. Had an original partner in the business and he was Harvard smart, but not willing to work hard. Let's say I did a bit better than he did on the whole deal.

Have no idea what you question is about, as I assumed nothing about you. I observed that you want a participation ribbon that includes a house and you seem to want to blame macro forces and avoid personal responsibility.

Glad to have clarified for you.

---

Observed? You observed? What did you "observe."

Here, let me help you because clearly you don't have your readers on.

Quote:

---

Because they all way to believe that they got there because they were "smart" and "good ol hard work" . . .

I'm sure they did do that, but had certain economic factors behind their control that either hurt or helped them.

---

I wasn't being facetious. Nothing is ever easy. Im sure INDIVIDUALLY you did these things. But to not acknowledge certain economic forces at different times is simply stupid and discredits you.

Funny, its only old people that say sheet like this. Folks that snagged a super low interest rate during COVID are happy to say "hell yeah, got a great interest rate" they don't say "worked hard..etc. ect." Of course, they did that to afford the home to begin with, but recognize the macro economic forces behind certain things.

Quote:

---

Personally, I think a lot of complaints from younger generations comes from a subconscious yearning for the culture and community that has eroded faster than our economy has declined. People would be willing to deal with more hardship if our society was healthier overall.

---

I'm not a Putnam-ite but his book Bowling Alone addresses the decline in social integration in America
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_Alone

Quote:

---

He then asked: "Why is US social capital eroding?" and discussed several possible causes.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_Alone#cite_note-Putnam1995-1][1][/url] He believed that the "movement of women into the workforce"[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_Alone#cite_note-Putnam1995-1][1][/url] and other demographic changes had an impact on the number of individuals engaging in civic associations. He also discussed the "re-potting hypothesis", that people become less engaged when they frequently move towns, but found that Americans actually moved towns less frequently than in previous decades.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_Alone#cite_note-Putnam1995-1][1][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_Alone#cite_note-3][3][/url] He did suggest that suburbanization, economics and time pressures had some effect, though he noted that average working hours had shortened. He concluded the main cause was technology "individualizing" people's leisure time via television and the Internet, suspecting that "virtual reality helmets" would carry this further in the future.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_Alone#cite_note-Putnam1995-1][1][/url]

---

Tex117 said:

---

gbaby23 said:

---

"Living wage" is a good trick by the left because that should be the goal. We should be working to cultivate a society where every man is able to live well. I just do not agree with their methods for getting there.

The generational blame is just ridiculous, but it is entertaining to watch young and old blame each other for problems that are out of their control. One generation raises another. We are not independent of each other. The circumstances that shape the young are put in place by the old. Although, politicians are the ones who create the circumstances and they very rarely listen to what the people actually want.

Personally, I think a lot of complaints from younger generations comes from a subconscious yearning for the culture and community that has eroded faster than our economy has declined. People would be willing to deal with more hardship if our society was healthier overall.

---

This is a really insightful post. The last paragraph especially.

---

Its not insightful, its more of the same blaming others and ignoring personal responsibility, in particular the last paragraph.

Old people put in place circumstances that undermine the young. But the young on here call out boomers saying they will submit to their demand for permanent WFH and work-life balance and things like 32 hour work weeks.

I literally have never seen a shirking of personal responsibility than that evidenced in the last paragraph.

Complaints are the result of a subconscious "yearning" for better society that was ruined by the olds.

That's comical and frankly sad.

JobSecurity said:

---

not really an "inflation" problem, it's a supply and demand problem. Unfortunately with no obvious solution.

If the fed wasn't focused on a soft landing there might be hope, but I don't see this dropping outside of a recession

---

What?!?!?! Yes Supply/Demand plays a roll, but when the same 500k mortgage went from $2000/mo to $3600/mo….that has nothing to do with supply and demand.

fka ftc said:

---

Tex117 said:

---

gbaby23 said:

---

"Living wage" is a good trick by the left because that should be the goal. We should be working to cultivate a society where every man is able to live well. I just do not agree with their methods for getting there.

The generational blame is just ridiculous, but it is entertaining to watch young and old blame each other for problems that are out of their control. One generation raises another. We are not independent of each other. The circumstances that shape the young are put in place by the old. Although, politicians are the ones who create the circumstances and they very rarely listen to what the people actually want.

Personally, I think a lot of complaints from younger generations comes from a subconscious yearning for the culture and community that has eroded faster than our economy has declined. People would be willing to deal with more hardship if our society was healthier overall.

---

This is a really insightful post. The last paragraph especially.

---

Its not insightful, its more of the same blaming others and ignoring personal responsibility, in particular the last paragraph.

Old people put in place circumstances that undermine the young. But the young on here call out boomers saying they will submit to their demand for permanent WFH and work-life balance and things like 32 hour work weeks.

I literally have never seen a shirking of personal responsibility than that evidenced in the last paragraph.

Complaints are the result of a subconscious "yearning" for better society that was ruined by the olds.

That's comical and frankly sad.

---

It is insightful. I read the last paragraph to read more about the online culture supplanting actual face to face culture. This IS an issue. (I suppose one can read the tea leaves and come to your conclusion of what it meant...but I don't think that's what the poster meant...if he did, then I don't agree with it).

You aren't addressing his point, but airing your problem with some young people (like WFH, or 32 hours) on here, when that's not what is being discussed. Im not advocating for that, and neither was that guy. You just want someone to listen to your world view.

Our discussing in person would probably be much better, than me thinking you are an old moron, and you thinking me an entitled jerk. (Which, lets, be clear....you probably aren't, and neither am I).

Lets clear it up.

At no time in this country was hard work never been a requirement. But there are macro economic factors that are more favorable than other times that are not in the control of the individual. This is just fact. To ignore this is simply stupid.

techno-ag said:

---

Definitely Not A Cop said:

---

hph6203 said:

---

techno-ag said:

---

What did we ever do back when the interest rates were near 18%?

Oh yeah, I remember. We saved up for 20% down, didn't buy more than we could afford, and refinanced when rates went down.

---

You have to save 2.5x as long to purchase a home that costs 3x as much monthly. Interest rates are a portion of the equation, but they matter WAY less than price relative to income. Even at 0% interest rates it's more expensive/difficult to buy a home than it was in the early 80's.

1980
Median House Price: 47,200
Median Household Income: 21,000
20% Down: 9,440
Interest Rate: 17%
Tax: 864/yr (72.00/mo)
HOI: 250/yr (20.80/mo)
P&I: 539.00
Total Payment: 631.80
Down payment percent gross income: 45%
Total payment percent of gross income: 16%

2023
Median House Price: 416,000
Median Household Income: 81,500
20% Down: 83,200
Interest Rate: 7.5%
Tax: 7615 (634.59/mo)
Insurance: 2204 (183.67/mo)
P&I: 2327.00
Total Payment: 3145.26
Down payment percent gross income: 102%
Total payment percent of gross income: 46.3%

---

Thanks. Some people's inability to admit that economics were more favorable to them in the past is strange. And that's not to absolve the idiocy towards our current economic policies that this generation is perpetuating. I'm sure the millenials will be gaslighting the 30 year olds the same way in 30 years.

---

I think it's more modern expectations that are out of whack. A young grad expects $100,000 job on day one. Wants a 5 bedroom $750,000 house with 0 down at 3%.

Examples only of course, but you get the point.

---

You could buy a house back then in a relatively safe area for cheap. Thanks to mass immigration and enormously different demographics, the cheap areas are all crime ridden hellholes. If you want your kids to not get shot at or beaten up daily in school, you're going to have to pay out the ass nowadays.

The situation is nothing at all like it uses to be. People are bankrupting themselves to get away from bad areas of town. They have no choice if they have a family.

Tex117 said:

---

Observed? You observed? What did you "observe."

Here, let me help you because clearly you don't have your readers on.

Quote:

---

Because they all way to believe that they got there because they were "smart" and "good ol hard work" . . .

I'm sure they did do that, but had certain economic factors behind their control that either hurt or helped them.

---

I wasn't being facetious. Nothing is ever easy. Im sure INDIVIDUALLY you did these things. But to not acknowledge certain economic forces at different times is simply stupid and discredits you.

Funny, its only old people that say sheet like this. Folks that snagged a super low interest rate during COVID are happy to say "hell yeah, got a great interest rate" they don't say "worked hard..etc. ect." Of course, they did that to afford the home to begin with, but recognize the macro economic forces behind certain things.

---

I do in fact have my readers on. I also brought my thinking cap with me today.

Let me help you on the individual responsibility. Many successful folks will tell you they had their major successes moving when others were scared to move, buyin when others were selling and similar. Exactly the OPPOSITE of what you suggest.

I went to work for myself after being dismissed from a great paying job (due to downward economic trends) 2 months after my wife and i had our first child. But I had saved well and prepared well so in addition to living off my savings I invested in the new venture - a homebuilding company we started up on 2009. Many would tell you that was likely not at the top of types of businesses people were starting just after the housing market completely nuclear detonated.

So the macro forces were against me considerable but my personal responsibility not only allowed me to get through those changes but set myself up for success. That is the point you seem to keep missing.

There are PLENTY of people who had all the macro elements line up and they **** the bed. Ergo, its personal responsibility that leads to success, not dumb luck.

fka ftc said:

---

Tex117 said:

---

Observed? You observed? What did you "observe."

Here, let me help you because clearly you don't have your readers on.

Quote:

---

Because they all way to believe that they got there because they were "smart" and "good ol hard work" . . .

I'm sure they did do that, but had certain economic factors behind their control that either hurt or helped them.

---

I wasn't being facetious. Nothing is ever easy. Im sure INDIVIDUALLY you did these things. But to not acknowledge certain economic forces at different times is simply stupid and discredits you.

Funny, its only old people that say sheet like this. Folks that snagged a super low interest rate during COVID are happy to say "hell yeah, got a great interest rate" they don't say "worked hard..etc. ect." Of course, they did that to afford the home to begin with, but recognize the macro economic forces behind certain things.

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I do in fact have my readers on. I also brought my thinking cap with me today.

Let me help you on the individual responsibility. Many successful folks will tell you they had their major successes moving when others were scared to move, buyin when others were selling and similar. Exactly the OPPOSITE of what you suggest.

I went to work for myself after being dismissed from a great paying job (due to downward economic trends) 2 months after my wife and i had our first child. But I had saved well and prepared well so in addition to living off my savings I invested in the new venture - a homebuilding company we started up on 2009. Many would tell you that was likely not at the top of types of businesses people were starting just after the housing market completely nuclear detonated.

So the macro forces were against me considerable but my personal responsibility not only allowed me to get through those changes but set myself up for success. That is the point you seem to keep missing.

There are PLENTY of people who had all the macro elements line up and they **** the bed. Ergo, its personal responsibility that leads to success, not dumb luck.

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Every time. Like clockwork.

I edited my previous post, so I'll re-post the actual point.

Quote:

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Lets clear it up.

At no time in this country was hard work never been a requirement. But there are macro economic factors that are more favorable than other times that are not in the control of the individual. This is just fact. To ignore this is simply stupid.

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But you have already lost the plot. You are telling me about your individual story. (Good for you, btw, glad it worked out, really).

But we are talking about home prices...and how right now, they are at a historic high with respect to the affordably index (this is a fact), and now you are telling me about what personal individual risks you took. What does that have to do with anything?

There is quantiiable evidence that is sucks for real estate right now, from an economic perspective, and instead of just recognizing that...you come up with some "back in my day" b.s. lecture that doesn't really apply. If you felt compelled to say something it should have been "yeah, the economic headwinds are tough...all I can say to anyone out there is work hard, keep your powder dry, and when you see an opportinuty, move on it"

Instead, you launched into some drivel about individual responsibility (like that has absolutely any bearing on the Fed's interest rate)...and all this other nonsense.

Tex117 said:

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At no time in this country was hard work never been a requirement. But there are macro economic factors that are more favorable than other times that are not in the control of the individual. This is just fact. To ignore this is simply stupid.

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And most hard workers separate themselves during the bad times vs the good times. That is just a fact. To ignore it is simply stupid.

Amen

First home purchased 1984, 1500 sq ft 3 bedroom 2 bath...all carpeted with lanoleum in the kitchen it was $47,000. I can promise you if you built that house today it would not cost $450,000. It was 10 years old. We stood in line for 3 hours for a first time home owners interest rate of 14% it was much better than the 18% going rate. Zillow search finds similar homes today in Waco for 200k and less, but these do have more "options" than the one we purchased. The average house in the 80's is not an "acceptable" house for a college graduate today. Sold the house 5 years later for $50,000. So no appreciation at the time either.

BTW, the 90's and early 2000's were great! A great time to start a career and life. It's just that other times, besides now, have been hard also and the 70's and 80's were not easy times to start a life.

Being a new Grad unless you have lots of help of family is very very difficult to afford a decent home given COL. Prob alot harder than previous generations and it is only going to get worse.

But at the end of the day, the only think you can control is yourself. No one or gov is going to help you.

Get going, work harder, advance, and increase you shovel. In 10 yrs, you will be sitting on a greatly appreciated home while the next generation complains how good you have it.

fka ftc said:

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Tex117 said:

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At no time in this country was hard work never been a requirement. But there are macro economic factors that are more favorable than other times that are not in the control of the individual. This is just fact. To ignore this is simply stupid.

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And most hard workers separate themselves during the bad times vs the good times. That is just a fact. To ignore it is simply stupid.

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I completely agree. Yet...somehow...your ego can't let you recognize what I'm saying.

fka ftc said:

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Tex117 said:

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At no time in this country was hard work never been a requirement. But there are macro economic factors that are more favorable than other times that are not in the control of the individual. This is just fact. To ignore this is simply stupid.

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And most hard workers separate themselves during the bad times vs the good times. That is just a fact. To ignore it is simply stupid.

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The only person arguing this is you.

You must have had a tough time reading the portion where I called out generational blaming as ridiculous.

gbaby23 said:

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You must have had a tough time reading the portion where I called out generational blaming as ridiculous.

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You called it ridiculous and then proceeded to do it, so maybe work on construction of an argument / position.

Tex117 said:

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fka ftc said:

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Tex117 said:

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At no time in this country was hard work never been a requirement. But there are macro economic factors that are more favorable than other times that are not in the control of the individual. This is just fact. To ignore this is simply stupid.

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And most hard workers separate themselves during the bad times vs the good times. That is just a fact. To ignore it is simply stupid.

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I completely agree. Yet...somehow...your ego can't let you recognize what I'm saying.

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No you don't cause even with your edit you still want to blame others. My point is to blame yourself.

Here is an affordable house. Not sure you are in the Houston area, but there are plenty more like it.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/321-S-Avenue-I-Freeport-TX-77541/26543353_zpid/

Plenty of other smaller communities where you could live where both housing and overall cost of living is cheaper.

The issue withy many folks, both old and young alike, is they seem to want what the Jones have without putting in the work the Joneses did to get there.

Of course the macro factors come in to play, but thats simply a rising tide. If your boat has holes in it, the rising tide matters not.