Agthatbuilds said:

---

NoahAg said:

---

UTExan said:

---

One way to drive down home prices is by zoning for smaller homes (800-1000 sq ft) in areas that have space to build them. It would allow singles and young couples to purchase at 80-150k, get the tax advantages and start building a wealth base. Putting people in small crappy apartments with no ability to generate equity is stupid and hopefully, some smart town or city on the outskirts of a major metro area will figure this out.

---

Sounds like a colonia.
Cities don't want zoning like that. Small homes = cheap = higher density and higher crime.

---

Austin about to allow three homes on a single family lot. The minimum lot size is 7500 sqft. That's moving to 2509 sqft

---

That sounds miserable.

Sims said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

JobSecurity said:

---

not really an "inflation" problem, it's a supply and demand problem. Unfortunately with no obvious solution.

If the fed wasn't focused on a soft landing there might be hope, but I don't see this dropping outside of a recession

---

The monetary base is the highest in US history. The M2 money supply is the largest in US history. Yes, it's inflation.

You can't look at just housing as far as inflation goes; inflation is an aggregate measure. And that aggregate measure has started rising again. It's around 4% right now. Housing is part of that. We have surpassed peak housing prices when rates were half what they are now.

---

I think his point, and I could be wrong, was it's not JUST an inflation problem.

M2 money primarily driven by Trump fiscal stimulus during Covid was the very definition of inflation. Money generated without any nominal production of valuable goods.

It's also a supply problem to a large degree...A very large number of homeowners are locked in under 3.5% on 30 year mortgages without a reasonable way to get out of that mortgage and not 1) trade down for equivalent price 2) take a huge hit in debt service coverage....Ultimately, they just stay put and put a big ole wet blanket on the velocity of housing transactions.

---

I don't disagree. With WFH now, the pressure to move is also probably less than it was. Thus more people have the option of staying put.

No one in their right mind is making a lateral move right now if they don't have to.

techno-ag said:

---

What did we ever do back when the interest rates were near 18%?

Oh yeah, I remember. We saved up for 20% down, didn't buy more than we could afford, and refinanced when rates went down.

---

yep. I was in high school when Jimmy Carter created a disaster.

Ted Lasso said:

---

Except home prices were much closer to wages back then. Big difference.

---

no they weren't. you are just looking through the lens of entitlement

this tells me one thing and one thing only, the entire market is being gamed

grifters gonna grift

txaggieacct85 said:

---

Ted Lasso said:

---

Except home prices were much closer to wages back then. Big difference.

---

no they weren't. you are just looking through the lens of entitlement

---

Yes they were, you can see the math when you get further down to responding to everyone in the thread.

Tex117 said:

---

Because they all way to believe that they got there because they were "smart" and "good ol hard work" blah blah.

I'm sure they did do that, but had certain economic factors behind their control that either hurt or helped them.

So weird that they don't just admit this. And moreover, just how stupid real estate people can be.

---

So you want a participation ribbon that includes a house?

Many people either suck it up during hard times and bite the bullet to purchase a house or they recognize an opportunity and buy a house. Really smart people take a bigger risk during hard times to take advantage of a buyer's opportunity.

I think our first mortgage in 2005 was 5.375% or thereabouts. That limited our buying options and limited our budget to furnish it.

Smart and good ol hard work are not all it takes, but those things make you prepare for when opportunities do present themselves. We could have bought a bigger houses and stretched our budget. But I would not have been able to save money so that in 2009 when an opportunity to start a business came along, I had barely enough to buy in.

Not spending ridiculous when the business was paying me well allowed me to buy out my partners. That then allowed me to set the terms with those same partners when a new, much larger business opportunity presented itself.

Was I lucky? To an extent. But without smarts and hard work I would not have had a seat at the table when lady luck and senor opportunity showed up.

Quit blaming your problems on others.

Muktheduck said:

---

techno-ag said:

---

What did we ever do back when the interest rates were near 18%?

Oh yeah, I remember. We saved up for 20% down, didn't buy more than we could afford, and refinanced when rates went down.

---

We'd love to do that. You had an attractive job market and your grocery bills didn't double every few years from inflation.

There's no saving up for a down payment right now. Prices are increasing faster than wages

---

HMMMMMMMM

Inflation was 11.3% in 1979 13.5% in 1980, 10.5% in 1981

YOU WERE SAYING? maybe check facts before you whine about how hard things are. And this was another democrat president. His name is Jimmy Carter

2022 was 8% inflation.

Historical Inflation Rates: 1914-2023 (usinflationcalculator.com)

Artorias said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

NoahAg said:

---

UTExan said:

---

One way to drive down home prices is by zoning for smaller homes (800-1000 sq ft) in areas that have space to build them. It would allow singles and young couples to purchase at 80-150k, get the tax advantages and start building a wealth base. Putting people in small crappy apartments with no ability to generate equity is stupid and hopefully, some smart town or city on the outskirts of a major metro area will figure this out.

---

Sounds like a colonia.
Cities don't want zoning like that. Small homes = cheap = higher density and higher crime.

---

Austin about to allow three homes on a single family lot. The minimum lot size is 7500 sqft. That's moving to 2509 sqft

---

That sounds miserable.

---

Only way to house 8 million new friends from other countries is to push density.

Dems love density regardless. Makes ballot harvesting way more cost/time effective.

tk111 said:

---

It's really terrible. I know a number of young couples just a few years removed from college that have been very successful and are still absolutely crushed at their prospects of getting a home due to the overwhelming double-whammy that is prices and interest rates.

---

so my grandparents raised their five kids in an 800 square foot house in Snyder, Texas in the 1930's 40's and 50's.

The house had hole in the outside wall. All five kids slept in the same room.


Now quit your whining.

Artorias said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

NoahAg said:

---

UTExan said:

---

One way to drive down home prices is by zoning for smaller homes (800-1000 sq ft) in areas that have space to build them. It would allow singles and young couples to purchase at 80-150k, get the tax advantages and start building a wealth base. Putting people in small crappy apartments with no ability to generate equity is stupid and hopefully, some smart town or city on the outskirts of a major metro area will figure this out.

---

Sounds like a colonia.
Cities don't want zoning like that. Small homes = cheap = higher density and higher crime.

---

Austin about to allow three homes on a single family lot. The minimum lot size is 7500 sqft. That's moving to 2509 sqft

---

That sounds miserable.

---

It does. And I'm not sure who the customer is supposed to be. It's not like these homes are going to be cheap.

A developer is going to have to drop quite a bit of money to build these homes. Here's my napkin math:

Lot (probably with existing home as buildable lots without one are unicorns)- 750k
6000 sqft of new housing x 250 sq ft (I'm being pretty conservative here on build cost. The city of austin is neither cheap nor easy to build in) -1.5 million

So, we're at 2.25 million dollars minimum costs.

That means you're going to need to sell these 2000sqft homes for more than 750k each to break even.

Who is buying these homes with no yard, no parking and the neighbors all up in your business?

fka ftc said:

---

Tex117 said:

---

Because they all way to believe that they got there because they were "smart" and "good ol hard work" blah blah.

I'm sure they did do that, but had certain economic factors behind their control that either hurt or helped them.

So weird that they don't just admit this. And moreover, just how stupid real estate people can be.

---

So you want a participation ribbon that includes a house?

Many people either suck it up during hard times and bite the bullet to purchase a house or they recognize an opportunity and buy a house. Really smart people take a bigger risk during hard times to take advantage of a buyer's opportunity.

I think our first mortgage in 2005 was 5.375% or thereabouts. That limited our buying options and limited our budget to furnish it.

Smart and good ol hard work are not all it takes, but those things make you prepare for when opportunities do present themselves. We could have bought a bigger houses and stretched our budget. But I would not have been able to save money so that in 2009 when an opportunity to start a business came along, I had barely enough to buy in.

Not spending ridiculous when the business was paying me well allowed me to buy out my partners. That then allowed me to set the terms with those same partners when a new, much larger business opportunity presented itself.

Was I lucky? To an extent. But without smarts and hard work I would not have had a seat at the table when lady luck and senor opportunity showed up.

Quit blaming your problems on others.

---

Well said. It's always amusing to see younger generations get upset because older folks are richer than they are. If you save and invest and don't buy too much you don't need, you too can be rich when you're older.

It's not rocket surgery.

Those who are intent on owning and not paying rent but are having a hard time coming up with the scratch can do some new home shopping at Oak Creek Homes, Palm Harbour and Clayton Homes.

The fact that none of the complainers on this thread even consider MHUs tells you all you need to know about the entitlement generations.

https://instagr.am/p/CwVWdPMpgum

https://instagr.am/p/Cpf1abmjPq6

Interest rates are only "high" compared to the previous decade plus. Inflation is the killer.

Agthatbuilds said:

---

Artorias said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

NoahAg said:

---

UTExan said:

---

One way to drive down home prices is by zoning for smaller homes (800-1000 sq ft) in areas that have space to build them. It would allow singles and young couples to purchase at 80-150k, get the tax advantages and start building a wealth base. Putting people in small crappy apartments with no ability to generate equity is stupid and hopefully, some smart town or city on the outskirts of a major metro area will figure this out.

---

Sounds like a colonia.
Cities don't want zoning like that. Small homes = cheap = higher density and higher crime.

---

Austin about to allow three homes on a single family lot. The minimum lot size is 7500 sqft. That's moving to 2509 sqft

---

That sounds miserable.

---

It does. And I'm not sure who the customer is supposed to be. It's not like these homes are going to be cheap.

A developer is going to have to drop quite a bit of money to build these homes. Here's my napkin math:

Lot (probably with existing home as buildable lots without one are unicorns)- 750k
6000 sqft of new housing x 250 sq ft (I'm being pretty conservative here on build cost. The city of austin is neither cheap nor easy to build in) -1.5 million

So, we're are 2.25 million dollars minimum costs.

That means you're going to need to sale these 2000sqft homes for more than 750k each to break even.

Who is buying these homes with no yard, no parking and the neighbors all up in your business?

---

Strippers. Work nights, uber to work, no need for a yard.

Here is an example from the RE board located in Houston.

https://texags.com/forums/59/topics/2635963/replies/65668988

hph6203 said:

---

techno-ag said:

---

What did we ever do back when the interest rates were near 18%?

Oh yeah, I remember. We saved up for 20% down, didn't buy more than we could afford, and refinanced when rates went down.

---

You have to save 2.5x as long to purchase a home that costs 3x as much monthly. Interest rates are a portion of the equation, but they matter WAY less than price relative to income. Even at 0% interest rates it's more expensive/difficult to buy a home than it was in the early 80's.

1980
Median House Price: 47,200
Median Household Income: 21,000
20% Down: 9,440
Interest Rate: 17%
Tax: 864/yr (72.00/mo)
HOI: 250/yr (20.80/mo)
P&I: 539.00
Total Payment: 631.80
Down payment percent gross income: 45%
Total payment percent of gross income: 16%

2023
Median House Price: 416,000
Median Household Income: 81,500
20% Down: 83,200
Interest Rate: 7.5%
Tax: 7615 (634.59/mo)
Insurance: 2204 (183.67/mo)
P&I: 2327.00
Total Payment: 3145.26
Down payment percent gross income: 102%
Total payment percent of gross income: 46.3%

---

Sorry



Median price
Household income
1980
61,300.00
21,020.00
2023
326,800.00
81,000.00

And many families in 1980 had to work multiple job and longer hours. we did get a holiday every time the wind blew. We didn't get Paternity leave that last months.

Fenrir said:

---

Funky Winkerbean said:

---

I never saw the prices come back down after lumber prices got so high during Covid. I think there's profits being made.

---

Then you haven't been paying attention. It's way down from COVID highs. Any chance it had at getting back to pre COVID levels was killed by inflation.

---

I understand that, hence my comment on profits being made.

Yeah, it's not that simple. I do all the things I'm supposed to- I don't buy very many luxury items (both in the expensive and the "it'd be nice to have that sense"), I personally fix things around my house, drive one car, don't eat out all that much, don't have a TV, cable and such and generally try to be frugal.....yet, saving in the current climate is really tough.

Everything seems like a premium cost, whether that be groceries, kids sports leagues (and were talking neighborhood ones, not serious ones), fuel, parts, and so on. Everything is freaking expensive and eats up savings.

We bought a house well within our budget and got 3% interest. The house was and still is in rough shape, but being a builder, I was okay with that. It's not big. I personally don't care for large homes. I feel very comfortable on what we bought.

My neighbor bought their house at 2x the price and probably double the interest. The house is in equally poor condition and is only about 1800 sqft. It was built for less than 75k in the 1970s and sold for just over 500k two years ago. That's crazy talk.

Austin doesn't have the stripper base that Houston has, to be fair

Truth. Another reason to avoid the 40acres. I also like my pole dancers to not fancy a strap-on.

Fenrir said:

---

Funky Winkerbean said:

---

I never saw the prices come back down after lumber prices got so high during Covid. I think there's profits being made.

---

Then you haven't been paying attention. It's way down from COVID highs. Any chance it had at getting back to pre COVID levels was killed by inflation.

---

Sure, lumber is down but hardly anything else is down. Most thing simply leveled off or have been making smaller or less increases.

And labor shot up like a rocket and will only come down when there is a real crash.

I'm hoping all of the young people on here (Whatever you are) mill. gen z whatever...

will realize two important things.... raising the minimum wage and overpaying for minimum wage skills creates inflation.

In addition, the government injecting $ into the economy with handouts (lets hope student loan forgiveness doesnt happen) all causes inflation.

and it artificially inflates demand for goods and services (including housing)

If you haven't learned this go take a macro economics class.

And you can blame the democrats and less than fiscal consverative republicans for helping to cause inflation.

Accurate. Paying a burger flipper 20 dollars an hour forces the framer goat to make 20 an hour which makes his crew chief demand 35 an hour.

And all of those excess costs get pushed to the consumer.

I love a good unhinged boomer thread.

Logos Stick said:

---

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CSUSHPINSA

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/home-prices-set-record-in-july-140213592.html




Enjoy your high priced home at 8% interest. We've obviously got inflation well under control.

---

They removed housing from inflation calculations I believe, now you know why.

Agthatbuilds said:

---

Yeah, it's not that simple. I do all the things I'm supposed to- I don't buy very many luxury items (both in the expensive and the "it'd be nice to have that since), I personally fix things around my house, drive one car, don't eat out all that much, don't have a TV, cable and such and generally try to be frugal.....yet, saving in the current climate is really tough.

Everything seems like a premium cost, whether that be groceries, kids sports leagues (and were talking neighborhood ones, not serious ones), fuel, parts, and so on. Everything is freaking expensive and eats up savings.

We bought a house well within our budget and got 3% interest. The house was and still is in rough shape, but being a builder, I was okay with that. It's not big. I personally don't care for large homes. I feel very comfortable on what we bought.

My neighbor bought their house at 2x the price and probably double the interest. The house is in equally poor condition and is only about 1800 sqft. It was built for less than 75k in the 1970s and sold for just over 500k two years ago. That's crazy talk.

---

I hear ya. Listen to this guy. He is getting more and more attention as the economy worsens.

everyone on here that wants to paint the narrative that us boomers as you like to call us (and I'm barely a boomer) had this life of milk and honey and everything was paved for us to live the American dream without any struggles are delusional.

Dude I had a 10.5% mortgage. first house in 1990 paid $93,000 and a 10.5% mortgage. Yes, the first year was 8.5 then second was 9.5.

We spent every penny we had to get into that house. and we lived better than probably 90% of people our age. Our mortgate was about 95% of the value of the house, so we had to pay PMI.

We didnt have a washer and dryer for the first year because we had no $ and didn't want to get into credit card debt.

I actually bought a used lawn mower from an older guy that bought and refurbished them because we couldn't afford a new one. We rarely ate out so we could save money

We saved every penny we could and didn't have any luxuries. Our principal and interest was $850 per month in 1992.

Got out of personal debt using his method when I was first married.

Now, learning to leverage debt, because the cash just isn't there

tk111 said:

---

carl spacklers hat said:

---

tk111 said:

---

It's really terrible. I know a number of young couples just a few years removed from college that have been very successful and are still absolutely crushed at their prospects of getting a home due to the overwhelming double-whammy that is prices and interest rates.

---

4 years removed from college I made my first home purchase (was a townhouse, but you get the drift). I paid 20% down and signed a note for 8.5%. This was in 1997, and I was thrilled.
What has changed between 1997 and 2023, besides increases in construction costs, insurance costs, taxes and massive interest rate manipulation by the Fed?

---

Not sure if you were being facetious because of that last part...

hph showed the math a lot better than I probably would've

---

Actually legit question, as there are certainly other factors that have changed that aren't in bold, such as buyers' expectations of what a starter home is (previously mentioned - today's buyer expects upgrades to be standard equipment). It was really getting more at the change in what someone expected in 1980 versus 2023. It would also be interesting to look at the numbers for 2000 to give a third data point between 43 years.

carl spacklers hat said:

---

tk111 said:

---

carl spacklers hat said:

---

tk111 said:

---

It's really terrible. I know a number of young couples just a few years removed from college that have been very successful and are still absolutely crushed at their prospects of getting a home due to the overwhelming double-whammy that is prices and interest rates.

---

4 years removed from college I made my first home purchase (was a townhouse, but you get the drift). I paid 20% down and signed a note for 8.5%. This was in 1997, and I was thrilled.
What has changed between 1997 and 2023, besides increases in construction costs, insurance costs, taxes and massive interest rate manipulation by the Fed?

---

Not sure if you were being facetious because of that last part...

hph showed the math a lot better than I probably would've

---

Actually legit question, as there are certainly other factors that have changed that aren't in bold, such as buyers' expectations of what a starter home is (previously mentioned - today's buyer expects upgrades to be standard equipment). It was really getting more at the change in what someone expected in 1980 versus 2023. It would also be interesting to look at the numbers for 2000 to give a third data point between 43 years.

---

2001/2002 would reflect the impacts of the dot-com bubble, Enron (and others) and 09/11 immediate aftermath.

Definitely Not A Cop said:

---

txaggieacct85 said:

---

Ted Lasso said:

---

Except home prices were much closer to wages back then. Big difference.

---

no they weren't. you are just looking through the lens of entitlement

---

Yes they were, you can see the math when you get further down to responding to everyone in the thread.

---

Now do mortgage payments when mortgage rates were 10.5%

Based off those numbers, if you earn the median salary, you don't qualify for a mortgage with 20% down on the median house.