bmks270 said:

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evan_aggie said:

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LMCane said:

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I saw on CNBC that the AVERAGE pay of those striking UAW workers is nearly $140,000 a year

for working in a car factory!!!

and demanding a 16% pay raise!!

WTF

---

I'm curious which it is...

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/18/what-uaw-negotiations-could-cost-gm-ford-and-stellantis.html

Quote:

---

The demands include a 46% wage increase, restoration of traditional pensions, cost-of-living increases, reducing the workweek to 32 hours from 40 and increasing retiree benefits.

If the UAW gets those demands, without any changes to other benefits, the all-in hourly labor cost for the automakers would more than double from at least $64 per hour to more than $150 per hour, according to media reports.


Under the current pay structure, UAW members start at about $18 an hour and have a "grow-in" period of four years to reach a top wage of more than $30 an hour.

---

---

$64/hr is $133,212/yr total cost to the employer based on 40 hours for 52 weeks.

---

some union member putting together car parts on a manufacturing line in Detroit -

will be making a higher salary than many young attorneys after spending 7 years in college and law school..

txags92 said:

---

LMCane said:

---

I saw on CNBC that the AVERAGE pay of those striking UAW workers is nearly $140,000 a year

for working in a car factory!!!

and demanding a 16% pay raise!!

WTF

---

I worked in Michigan for about 18 months back in the 90s and the UAW workers are the most overpaid workforce I have ever seen. Most of them spend their whole lives doing jobs that high school kids could do well with a few days or a couple weeks of training. They get guaranteed raises for no added benefit to the company, they get more holidays, better benefits, and much higher pay than any other job with similar skill/knowledge requirements. And yet they are ALWAYS unhappy and are convinced they are constantly getting screwed by management.

It is an absolutely poisonous environment 100% created by union leadership, where the people working in the plant are encouraged to absolutely despise their managers and to be intransigent and unwilling to be flexible to get the job done or improve production in any way without written concessions granted by management.

I was friends with an engineer for Ford who worked on their Lincoln Town Car/Ford LTD products coming out of the Wixom plant. They had some issue occurring during the manufacture of the cars that left a small amount of water in the water pumps of the cars as they came off the line. It was easily fixable by letting the cars idle for about 10 minutes after they rolled off the line to cook out the water. If it was left there and the temp on the lot dropped below freezing, the water pump would crack. What the engineers asked the plant to do was leave each car running when it was parked after coming off the line, while the driver went back to get the next car. When they parked the next car next to it, they would shut off the first one. It was at most a one year problem that would be fixed during the prep for the next model year's production. The UAW refused to do it and demanded 5 new permanent full time positions be created to perform the requested task. Instead, Ford had to send their engineers over to the plant on a rotating schedule whenever it got below freezing to walk around starting the cars to keep them from freezing. And the union guys made sure the keys were always missing from a few, only to be found somewhere that required a long walk from the lot.

---

Very common union BS -- "not my job because it is not in the contract". There was a running joke at one of my clients that if you broke the lead in your pencil, you had to call maintenance to sharpen it. Like someone already said, unions are inefficient anachronisms whose purpose long ago expired.

Will Ford and GM Survive?🚗

TCAF 108🎥https://t.co/TYBro80mUe

Featuring: @DataTrekMB, @Downtown, and @michaelbatnick💥 pic.twitter.com/k97ZvKpBs5

— The Compound (@TheCompoundNews) September 8, 2023

YouBet said:

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......overall operation is still making money largely because trucks and SUVs are cash cows.

---

Got it.
Record profits is what is happening.

Stellantis posts record $12.1B net profit in first half of 2023
GM reports 52% surge in Q2 net income, raises 2023 guidance a second time
FORD'S FIRST-QUARTER VOLUMES, SALES, PROFITS, CASH FLOW ALL UP;
Tesla Q2 2023 Earnings Report: Profitable Again, Beat Expectations

Logos Stick said:

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Lol, I worked on an assembly line once running a mig welder. Took me 30 minutes to learn the job. I bet I could even teach you in a couple of days.

---

When and where?
How many buttons were you pushing?

Thanks for showing that the aTm universal AgEco degree gives you skills.

Quote:

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They are unskilled and uneducated beyond a HS diploma which is worthless now. They are not worth $282,000 per year.

---

If it is really that easy, then at $80k they would siphon off the three part time job crowd and they would be happy. It is that "union eligible" stuff they savor.

I remember in a marketing class at A&M the prof told a story about the last guy who would drive it off the line and park it to be shipped. Sometimes the steering wheel would come off, but it wasn't his job so he'd put it back on.

Quote:

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Corporations also manipulate the free market, and they've been doing it much more than unions. It's time unions start fighting back.

---

Probably one of the silliest comments on this thread - and that's saying something.

Unions are a legalized cartel - they ARE market manipulators.

If Corporations are manipulating markets, it's because DC allows it. Otherwise, they have to compete for labor, compete for materials, and compete for customers.

Quote:

---

Got it.

Record profits is what is happening.

---

As the cost of things go up, profits will rise if they remain at a historical % of sales. That's inflation, not gouging.

Aggie Jurist said:

---

Quote:

---

Got it.

Record profits is what is happening.

---

As the cost of things go up, profits will rise if they remain at a historical % of sales. That's inflation, not gouging.

---

You know what would bring record profits?
Bring this back
Square body.

(Sans exploding gas tanks.)

Are there any parts of the above squarebody that you can't buy? I've got 4 of them in various stages of repair and I've not run across anything that can't be fixed. I could not care less what GM pays autoworkers as long as somebody in the world is making parts for 30 to 40 year old chebbies.

Jack Boyett said:

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Are there any parts of the above squarebody that you can't buy? I've got 4 of them in various stages of repair and I've not run across anything that can't be fixed. I could not care less what GM pays autoworkers as long as somebody in the world is making parts for 30 to 40 year old chebbies.

---

LS Fab
JC Whitney reboot
Squarebody Syndicate

TxTarpon said:

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Aggie Jurist said:

---

Quote:

---

Got it.

Record profits is what is happening.

---

As the cost of things go up, profits will rise if they remain at a historical % of sales. That's inflation, not gouging.

---

You know what would bring record profits?
Bring this back
Square body.

(Sans exploding gas tanks.)

---

I often wonder if there would be a market for "dumb" cars again, without people's precious heat/cooled seats, GPS, etc. Gets you from point A to point B, relatively safely.

HtownAg92 said:

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txags92 said:

---

LMCane said:

---

I saw on CNBC that the AVERAGE pay of those striking UAW workers is nearly $140,000 a year

for working in a car factory!!!

and demanding a 16% pay raise!!

WTF

---

I worked in Michigan for about 18 months back in the 90s and the UAW workers are the most overpaid workforce I have ever seen. Most of them spend their whole lives doing jobs that high school kids could do well with a few days or a couple weeks of training. They get guaranteed raises for no added benefit to the company, they get more holidays, better benefits, and much higher pay than any other job with similar skill/knowledge requirements. And yet they are ALWAYS unhappy and are convinced they are constantly getting screwed by management.

It is an absolutely poisonous environment 100% created by union leadership, where the people working in the plant are encouraged to absolutely despise their managers and to be intransigent and unwilling to be flexible to get the job done or improve production in any way without written concessions granted by management.

I was friends with an engineer for Ford who worked on their Lincoln Town Car/Ford LTD products coming out of the Wixom plant. They had some issue occurring during the manufacture of the cars that left a small amount of water in the water pumps of the cars as they came off the line. It was easily fixable by letting the cars idle for about 10 minutes after they rolled off the line to cook out the water. If it was left there and the temp on the lot dropped below freezing, the water pump would crack. What the engineers asked the plant to do was leave each car running when it was parked after coming off the line, while the driver went back to get the next car. When they parked the next car next to it, they would shut off the first one. It was at most a one year problem that would be fixed during the prep for the next model year's production. The UAW refused to do it and demanded 5 new permanent full time positions be created to perform the requested task. Instead, Ford had to send their engineers over to the plant on a rotating schedule whenever it got below freezing to walk around starting the cars to keep them from freezing. And the union guys made sure the keys were always missing from a few, only to be found somewhere that required a long walk from the lot.

---

Very common union BS -- "not my job because it is not in the contract". There was a running joke at one of my clients that if you broke the lead in your pencil, you had to call maintenance to sharpen it. Like someone already said, unions are inefficient anachronisms whose purpose long ago expired.

---

I was working on a union site as an outside contracted engineer. I got there in the morning before the union labor and started doing some assembly work on a test stand to get into testing sooner. Another more senior engineer came over and told me to put down the wrench and don't touch the hardware otherwise the union will complain for "taking their job" and I might be kicked off site.

As a young engineer I didn't know any better, I'm juSt trying to move the project forward. I had a great working relationship with the workers, but seeing how union labor operates was a good learning experience.

One reason SpaceX and Tesla move so fast is they don't use union labor. They let engineers work on hardware along side the technicians.

How about this union "benefit":

"I agree that your production and safety record are outstanding, that you are the most skilled, efficient and qualified person on the line, that your disciplinary and attendance records are spotless, that you score outstanding on your performance reviews, and that you have bettered yourself by taking skills courses on your own -- but see that guy over there missing a few fingers from accidents, who showed up an hour late today, who counts down the minutes to breaks, whose performance reviews show at best barely meeting expectations? He gets the promotion because he has more seniority than you."

bmks270 said:

---

HtownAg92 said:

---

txags92 said:

---

LMCane said:

---

I saw on CNBC that the AVERAGE pay of those striking UAW workers is nearly $140,000 a year

for working in a car factory!!!

and demanding a 16% pay raise!!

WTF

---

I worked in Michigan for about 18 months back in the 90s and the UAW workers are the most overpaid workforce I have ever seen. Most of them spend their whole lives doing jobs that high school kids could do well with a few days or a couple weeks of training. They get guaranteed raises for no added benefit to the company, they get more holidays, better benefits, and much higher pay than any other job with similar skill/knowledge requirements. And yet they are ALWAYS unhappy and are convinced they are constantly getting screwed by management.

It is an absolutely poisonous environment 100% created by union leadership, where the people working in the plant are encouraged to absolutely despise their managers and to be intransigent and unwilling to be flexible to get the job done or improve production in any way without written concessions granted by management.

I was friends with an engineer for Ford who worked on their Lincoln Town Car/Ford LTD products coming out of the Wixom plant. They had some issue occurring during the manufacture of the cars that left a small amount of water in the water pumps of the cars as they came off the line. It was easily fixable by letting the cars idle for about 10 minutes after they rolled off the line to cook out the water. If it was left there and the temp on the lot dropped below freezing, the water pump would crack. What the engineers asked the plant to do was leave each car running when it was parked after coming off the line, while the driver went back to get the next car. When they parked the next car next to it, they would shut off the first one. It was at most a one year problem that would be fixed during the prep for the next model year's production. The UAW refused to do it and demanded 5 new permanent full time positions be created to perform the requested task. Instead, Ford had to send their engineers over to the plant on a rotating schedule whenever it got below freezing to walk around starting the cars to keep them from freezing. And the union guys made sure the keys were always missing from a few, only to be found somewhere that required a long walk from the lot.

---

Very common union BS -- "not my job because it is not in the contract". There was a running joke at one of my clients that if you broke the lead in your pencil, you had to call maintenance to sharpen it. Like someone already said, unions are inefficient anachronisms whose purpose long ago expired.

---

I was working on a union site as an outside contracted engineer. I got there in the morning before the union labor and started doing some assembly work on a test stand to get into testing sooner. Another more senior engineer came over and told me to put down the wrench and don't touch the hardware otherwise the union will complain for "taking their job" and I might be kicked off site.

As a young engineer I didn't know any better, I'm juSt trying to move the project forward. I had a great working relationship with the workers, but seeing how union labor operates was a good learning experience.

One reason SpaceX and Tesla move so fast is they don't use union labor. They let engineers work on hardware along side the technicians.

---

Years ago the engineering/construction company I worked for had a design-build-operate contract with a client for a small treatment plant in southern Indiana. We designed it, built it, then provided a operator for a couple of years. Being in the rust belt we had to hire a lot of union trades during construction. After it went online we had to call some of them back to fix things. By that point our operator had been running things for a few weeks. I was there one day when our operator was using a crescent wrench to adjust a piece of equipment. The union trade guy foreman points out to me that my operator is using the wrench wrong (crescent wrench was upside down, but it wasn't anything critical, just something to turn an adjuster that was too tight turn by hand). I wasn't in the mood so I blurted out, "Is that why we pay you guys so much? So you can tell us how to hold a damn monkey wrench? What other smart things do you have to tell us?"

He got pissed off and left. From then on he would not talk to me and made me talk to his boss.

Also noted, those white union guys in the rust belt were a bunch of racist MFers, far worse than people I met in Georgia.

Just another example of why most if not all unions should be abolished.

Quote:

---

Also noted, those white union guys in the rust belt large-scale manufacturing pretty much anywhere in the US were a bunch of racist MFers, far worse than people I met in Georgia.

---

My experience is that it is everywhere. You know where I got the most pushback about a policy banning the display of Confederate flags in the workplace?

Seattle

CDUB98 said:

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One day, many moons ago, when I was working in a Chem plant, I watched thousands of dollars, of my tiny project budget, get burned up as an entire construction crew waited around for two ****ing hours for ONE GUY to finish up a task, then go on his break, and then get the keys to go unlock a gate.

There was literally another outside operator in the control room who could do job, but it wasn't his day to work the area, so nah.

Unions are a ****ing Marxist scourge to modern businesses.

---

We had to work on union facilities up in Michigan pretty frequently and they ALWAAYS tried to slow you down if you were non-union. One chemical plant that we went out to drill some wells on had a union entrance and a non-union entrance. The union entrance went right through the front gate. The non-union entrance was all the way at the back of the plant and the only way to get there was to drive a road with a 5 mph speed limit that went around the plant's outer perimeter between an inner and outer fence to a little shack where you signed in on a ledger. Then you got a temp pass and drove all the way back around to the front and went through the main entrance. When you went to leave, you had to turn in your pass at the non-union gate before you left.

When we came onsite for the first time, they told us plant rules meant we had to get the drill rig inspected by one of their mechanics, and he wasn't available that day until about 3pm. They left the rig onsite that night and all the auger bolts got stolen off the rig. So the next day at the end of the day, they took the rig to the hotel. Next day, "gotta get the rig re-inspected any time it leaves the site. Mechanic is off today, but he will be in tomorrow around 2:30pm."

Made a 3 day job take nearly two weeks with all their antics.

TxTarpon said:

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Aggie Jurist said:

---

Quote:

---

Got it.

Record profits is what is happening.

---

As the cost of things go up, profits will rise if they remain at a historical % of sales. That's inflation, not gouging.

---

You know what would bring record profits?
Bring this back
Square body.

(Sans exploding gas tanks.)

---

build it

2x3.5k per axel
5k for a nice LS or Diesel of your choice at 10k
transmission at 5 to 10k
2k for a nice interior from katzkin, seats only
2k for doors and dash
10k for nice paint and bedliner
2.5k for shoes

$41,500 high side plus the good donor vehicle, gas version could be $31,500

pacecar02 said:

---

TxTarpon said:

---

Aggie Jurist said:

---

Quote:

---

Got it.

Record profits is what is happening.

---

As the cost of things go up, profits will rise if they remain at a historical % of sales. That's inflation, not gouging.

---

You know what would bring record profits?
Bring this back
Square body.

(Sans exploding gas tanks.)

---

build it

2x3.5k per axel
5k for a nice LS or Diesel of your choice at 10k
transmission at 5 to 10k
2k for a nice interior from katzkin, seats only
2k for doors and dash
10k for nice paint and bedliner
2.5k for shoes

$41,500 high side plus the good donor vehicle, gas version could be $31,500

---

Now find a bank that will finance that build over 7 years for 4.9% with $2k down and you can sell them to the average car buyer.

AtlAg05 said:

---

TxTarpon said:

---

Aggie Jurist said:

---

Quote:

---

Got it.

Record profits is what is happening.

---

As the cost of things go up, profits will rise if they remain at a historical % of sales. That's inflation, not gouging.

---

You know what would bring record profits?
Bring this back
Square body.

(Sans exploding gas tanks.)

---

I often wonder if there would be a market for "dumb" cars again, without people's precious heat/cooled seats, GPS, etc. Gets you from point A to point B, relatively safely.

---

Kind of, sort of analogous but there is a market for dumb phones that appeal to non-olds. There are 2-3 phone makers out there that make a modern mobile phone without internet connectivity.

My guess is that as EV's and tech just completely take over the market there will be some demand for dumb cars. Especially once the government gets their back door into your car so they can track and monitor you. I'll be keeping a car on the side before that tech gets mandated in new cars so I can avoid them as much as I can.

HtownAg92 said:

---

txags92 said:

---

LMCane said:

---

I saw on CNBC that the AVERAGE pay of those striking UAW workers is nearly $140,000 a year

for working in a car factory!!!

and demanding a 16% pay raise!!

WTF

---

I worked in Michigan for about 18 months back in the 90s and the UAW workers are the most overpaid workforce I have ever seen. Most of them spend their whole lives doing jobs that high school kids could do well with a few days or a couple weeks of training. They get guaranteed raises for no added benefit to the company, they get more holidays, better benefits, and much higher pay than any other job with similar skill/knowledge requirements. And yet they are ALWAYS unhappy and are convinced they are constantly getting screwed by management.

It is an absolutely poisonous environment 100% created by union leadership, where the people working in the plant are encouraged to absolutely despise their managers and to be intransigent and unwilling to be flexible to get the job done or improve production in any way without written concessions granted by management.

I was friends with an engineer for Ford who worked on their Lincoln Town Car/Ford LTD products coming out of the Wixom plant. They had some issue occurring during the manufacture of the cars that left a small amount of water in the water pumps of the cars as they came off the line. It was easily fixable by letting the cars idle for about 10 minutes after they rolled off the line to cook out the water. If it was left there and the temp on the lot dropped below freezing, the water pump would crack. What the engineers asked the plant to do was leave each car running when it was parked after coming off the line, while the driver went back to get the next car. When they parked the next car next to it, they would shut off the first one. It was at most a one year problem that would be fixed during the prep for the next model year's production. The UAW refused to do it and demanded 5 new permanent full time positions be created to perform the requested task. Instead, Ford had to send their engineers over to the plant on a rotating schedule whenever it got below freezing to walk around starting the cars to keep them from freezing. And the union guys made sure the keys were always missing from a few, only to be found somewhere that required a long walk from the lot.

---

Very common union BS -- "not my job because it is not in the contract". There was a running joke at one of my clients that if you broke the lead in your pencil, you had to call maintenance to sharpen it. Like someone already said, unions are inefficient anachronisms whose purpose long ago expired.

---

Reminding me of the union guy who sat in the office supply cabinet of the plant I interned at. He sat on his butt for 9 straight hours a day doing almost nothing at all. If you lost your last pen or needed a new notebook and it happened to be break time, you weren't getting it until after the whistle. Wouldn't let you grab one and sure as hell wasn't going to "work" when he was on his break. Still not sure how the union got a full-time position for something done in about 5 minutes a week by a secretary in every other office I've ever worked in.

Charpie said:

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Two of the big three are my clients. They are not folding. They have been preparing for this since the beginning of the year. They let the UAW go on strike in 2018 and they will let them do it again.

Did you see this piece from the UAW? GM offered up some sort of offering to which the UAW scoffed at

---

GM and Ford need to make a similar bit of propaganda showing warranty costs and recalls going up, yet the UAW is making demands.

aggiejayrod said:

---

HtownAg92 said:

---

txags92 said:

---

LMCane said:

---

I saw on CNBC that the AVERAGE pay of those striking UAW workers is nearly $140,000 a year

for working in a car factory!!!

and demanding a 16% pay raise!!

WTF

---

I worked in Michigan for about 18 months back in the 90s and the UAW workers are the most overpaid workforce I have ever seen. Most of them spend their whole lives doing jobs that high school kids could do well with a few days or a couple weeks of training. They get guaranteed raises for no added benefit to the company, they get more holidays, better benefits, and much higher pay than any other job with similar skill/knowledge requirements. And yet they are ALWAYS unhappy and are convinced they are constantly getting screwed by management.

It is an absolutely poisonous environment 100% created by union leadership, where the people working in the plant are encouraged to absolutely despise their managers and to be intransigent and unwilling to be flexible to get the job done or improve production in any way without written concessions granted by management.

I was friends with an engineer for Ford who worked on their Lincoln Town Car/Ford LTD products coming out of the Wixom plant. They had some issue occurring during the manufacture of the cars that left a small amount of water in the water pumps of the cars as they came off the line. It was easily fixable by letting the cars idle for about 10 minutes after they rolled off the line to cook out the water. If it was left there and the temp on the lot dropped below freezing, the water pump would crack. What the engineers asked the plant to do was leave each car running when it was parked after coming off the line, while the driver went back to get the next car. When they parked the next car next to it, they would shut off the first one. It was at most a one year problem that would be fixed during the prep for the next model year's production. The UAW refused to do it and demanded 5 new permanent full time positions be created to perform the requested task. Instead, Ford had to send their engineers over to the plant on a rotating schedule whenever it got below freezing to walk around starting the cars to keep them from freezing. And the union guys made sure the keys were always missing from a few, only to be found somewhere that required a long walk from the lot.

---

Very common union BS -- "not my job because it is not in the contract". There was a running joke at one of my clients that if you broke the lead in your pencil, you had to call maintenance to sharpen it. Like someone already said, unions are inefficient anachronisms whose purpose long ago expired.

---

Reminding me of the union guy who sat in the office supply cabinet of the plant I interned at. He sat on his butt for 9 straight hours a day doing almost nothing at all. If you lost your last pen or needed a new notebook and it happened to be break time, you weren't getting it until after the whistle. Wouldn't let you grab one and sure as hell wasn't going to "work" when he was on his break. Still not sure how the union got a full-time position for something done in about 5 minutes a week by a secretary in every other office I've ever worked in.

---

I'll add to the dog pile...

I worked at an OEM for 3 years.

I had to move a pre-production car out of the way to get to a vehicle i had to test and evaluate.

The car had a dead battery and wouldn't start. I asked if there was a floor charger I could use. Nope. I was informed the jump start guy would be here at 2 pm.

I asked if this was like waiting for the cable guy...and got some interesting looks.

I decided to go back to my personal vehicle and get jumper cables. I jump started the car with a near by car.

That earned me a 10 hour grievance.

I laughed out loud when my boss called me to his office later than afternoon and informed what the hell a grievance is.

Two decades working with unions. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

The very idea of unions and how they are operated in blue states is one of the most anti-American ideals in this country. Biden and Kamala announced coming into office that they wanted to force union membership in all states and do away with "right to work". They are slowly trying to do that with this recent NLRB decision.

Imagine a world where you are forced to pay dues to a cabal of union leaders and ultimately the Democrat plantation simply to get and keep a job. Because that's all union membership is. Union leaders are lazy Ludites who oppose anything that reduces their rolls by even one headcount. I've seen people get fired and then simply get rehired at another location. About the only way you can get fired is rape or murder and that might be questionable.

And I'm no lover of F500 corporate America either now that they have decided to throw their lot in with the federal government and become their political enforcement arm for ridiculous CRT and DEI ideologies. The whole system is corrupt and needs a reset that is not the Great Marxist Reset.

txags92 said:

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pacecar02 said:

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TxTarpon said:

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Aggie Jurist said:

---

Quote:

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Now find a bank that will finance that build over 7 years for 4.9% with $2k down and you can sell them to the average car buyer.

---

---

---

---

---

Just write a check

AtlAg05 said:

---

TxTarpon said:

---

Aggie Jurist said:

---

Quote:

---

Got it.

Record profits is what is happening.

---

As the cost of things go up, profits will rise if they remain at a historical % of sales. That's inflation, not gouging.

---

You know what would bring record profits?
Bring this back
Square body.

(Sans exploding gas tanks.)

---

I often wonder if there would be a market for "dumb" cars again, without people's precious heat/cooled seats, GPS, etc. Gets you from point A to point B, relatively safely.

---

And easy to work on by anyone with above average intellect. I would beat down the doors to get a truck that had so much room under the hood you could store a human and if something went wrong I would not need a $5,000 computer to diagnose the issue.

AtlAg05 said:

---

TxTarpon said:

---

Aggie Jurist said:

---

Quote:

---

Got it.

Record profits is what is happening.

---

As the cost of things go up, profits will rise if they remain at a historical % of sales. That's inflation, not gouging.

---

You know what would bring record profits?
Bring this back
Square body.

(Sans exploding gas tanks.)

---

I often wonder if there would be a market for "dumb" cars again, without people's precious heat/cooled seats, GPS, etc. Gets you from point A to point B, relatively safely.

---

There's definitely a market in my household. Just give me electric locks with a clicker and I'm good.
I already knew I wouldn't buy a new vehicle anytime soon. If prices go up further, I will never buy a new one again. There's just not a chance in Hades I will pay the prices they are asking.

TxTarpon said:

---

txags92 said:

---

pacecar02 said:

---

TxTarpon said:

---

Aggie Jurist said:

---

Quote:

---

Now find a bank that will finance that build over 7 years for 4.9% with $2k down and you can sell them to the average car buyer.

---

---

---

---

---

Just write a check

---

The average car buyer is upside down in their current loan and doesn't have two nickels to rub together other than the day they cash their paycheck.

Yellerjacket said:

---

AtlAg05 said:

---

TxTarpon said:

---

Aggie Jurist said:

---

Quote:

---

Got it.

Record profits is what is happening.

---

As the cost of things go up, profits will rise if they remain at a historical % of sales. That's inflation, not gouging.

---

You know what would bring record profits?
Bring this back
Square body.

(Sans exploding gas tanks.)

---

I often wonder if there would be a market for "dumb" cars again, without people's precious heat/cooled seats, GPS, etc. Gets you from point A to point B, relatively safely.

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There's definitely a market in my household. Just give me electric locks with a clicker and I'm good.
I already knew I wouldn't buy a new vehicle anytime soon. If prices go up further, I will never buy a new one again. There's just not a chance in Hades I will pay the prices they are asking.

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Won't be long before your only option is EV if the claims of the big manufacturers are accurate. They will take the keys to my Red Barchetta...err I mean ICE truck from my cold dead fingers. It will be a very long time before I will even consider any kind of all battery powered car.

Same here but I strongly prefer driving something with a manual. Newer stuff comes with too much stuff I don't give a crap about, hard to find with a 6 speed, and the cost is too high.

My two are from 2000 and 2007, plus a '70 F-100 I'm trying to get back on the road (the later two were inherited). The plan is to keep up the maintenance on both and avoid having a car payment.

YouBet said:

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Two decades working with unions. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

The very idea of unions and how they are operated in blue states is one of the most anti-American ideals in this country. Biden and Kamala announced coming into office that they wanted to force union membership in all states and do away with "right to work". They are slowly trying to do that with this recent NLRB decision.

Imagine a world where you are forced to pay dues to a cabal of union leaders and ultimately the Democrat plantation simply to get and keep a job. Because that's all union membership is. Union leaders are lazy Ludites who oppose anything that reduces their rolls by even one headcount. I've seen people get fired and then simply get rehired at another location. About the only way you can get fired is rape or murder and that might be questionable.

And I'm no lover of F500 corporate America either now that they have decided to throw their lot in with the federal government and become their political enforcement arm for ridiculous CRT and DEI ideologies. The whole system is corrupt and needs a reset that is not the Great Marxist Reset.

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I worked on a job site at a VA hospital in Michigan excavating and installing a new sewer line through an area of contaminated soil. The guys I was with were a union crew, but there were non-union crews working on other parts of the site. The union crew rules demanded that they have 2 laborers, a foreman, and an operator even though all that was really needed was the operator and a laborer for what they were doing. The laborers were *****ing non-stop about how the non-union crew guys were doing all kinds of jobs themselves (operating equipment, running a forklift, using shovels, etc. At the same time, the union guys were doing some incredibly unsafe stuff (working in the bottom of deep excavations with no easy egress, no shoring or benching, etc.) and were working way slower than the non-union crew. One day, a truck drove on site and suddenly the laborers and foreman all had to be in the bottom of the excavation in a hurry. I asked the operator what was going on, and he said the truck was the union steward and all three of the other guys hadn't been paying their dues. They were all about how great the union was until it came time to actually pay their dues...

The more expensive labor get, the cheaper machines and AI become.

Heard an interview with a Detroit Free Press writer this morning, don't know if these have been covered in this thread but summary of what I recall;

Union wants 40% Pay Increase + 32HR Work week (so pay increase and cut hours). So if a guy is making $50k/yr now with a 40hr week, he would be paid $70k/yr with a 32hr week.
Union is asking for safety and benefits concessions (didn't get specifics)
Big 3 did have big profits in 2022 and more in 2023. Average profit sharing bonus for 2022 was $15k per worker.

Ford/Stellantis/GM burdened labor average is $67/hr
Honda/Nissan/Toyota burdened labor average is $55/hr
Telsa burdened labor average is $45/hr


Ford/Stellantis/GM Unions are asking for $100+/hr

Thought I heard him say Honda/Nissan/Toyota are not unionized ??? Or maybe Telsa?

That labor rate is < 10% of the cost of the auto you see at the dealership. That being said, the scaling from $67-$100 is not going to help the big 3 in any way shape or form.

If I can find the interview online I'll post it.