Four Seasons Landscaping said:

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Putting aside the ethical questions about Liberty Safe….


Is there anybody here who actually thinks they have a physical safe that would keep the FBI out for any substantial amount of time?

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TXTL60X6 will keep them out for at least an hour

Four Seasons Landscaping said:

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Putting aside the ethical questions about Liberty Safe….


Is there anybody here who actually thinks they have a physical safe that would keep the FBI out for any substantial amount of time?

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It seems like adverse event is really missing an opportunity on this thread. You know what the government can't break into? Your bitcoin.

(I know you said "physical" Four Seasons, but that's what made me think of AE.)

Touchless said:

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agdoc2001 said:

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Touchless said:

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I have no idea what they were searching for or if it's been mentioned in this thread, but simply for argumentative sake, what if the person being investigated has a child smuggling and sex trafficking ring and the safe may have contents to where kids are located and who else is involved or something?

Would there be any situation where you'd be okay with a company assisting the government in a situation like this when they have a warrant for a location and all of the contents there?

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The old "think of the children" tactic

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So you're saying you wouldn't be supportive if it was in that type of situation? It was a genuine question.

Is there any situation where you would be okay with it? What if the Boston marathon bombers January 6th
"insurrectionists" had a safe in their house? Massive manhunt underway for them. Could be some valuable information in the safe that could potentially stop other mass terrorist events. Would you be okay with it then?

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The Feds are just there to "protect democracy"...

Touchless said:

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I have no idea what they were searching for or if it's been mentioned in this thread, but simply for argumentative sake, what if the person being investigated has a child smuggling and sex trafficking ring and the safe may have contents to where kids are located and who else is involved or something?

Would there be any situation where you'd be okay with a company assisting the government in a situation like this when they have a warrant for a location and all of the contents there?

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Totally subjective when they can get a warrant to open your safe for whatever the regime wants to get it for.... is it for possible kiddie porn (great!)? ...or could it just be for someone's guns because they're a political opponent of the regime and they might have said something online about demonstrating at the Capitol on Jan 6, 2021? Can you trust the government to draw a line somewhere in between and stick to it? Seems like "slippery slope" might be approp here.

How about the government, once they have a warrant for the contents of someone's safe and the owner is unable (already been dispatched or not locatable) or refuses to open the safe, they have to use a locksmith with drills, tools, and techniques to open the safe, just like anyone else? Because if you're a safe company trying to sell safes, a safe isn't really safe if the government can just ask for a code and open it when they want to, regardless of who puts what in it.

of course, if you're currently a democrat and you worship your benevolent overlords in government and only wish to be governed harder because they only go after anti-communists and would never turn on you- ever- they're here to help, then yes, make all safes immediately openable at the government's beck and call.

It is a good thing that these warrants are almost impossible to get issued and that they would never, ever be used against people for simple political disagreements.

ChemEAg08 said:

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Space-Tech said:

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A few things.

• A company exists for only one purpose, to make money.
• If you think a company is "on your side" you are wrong.
• A company can only exist as so long the government allows it.

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We here in the United States believe that the government is allowed to exist based on if the people allow it, commie.

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That is demonstrably false

I want to see Kid Rocks response video

Upside, faster to open for the owner and also the feds

i guess. but most of the time if i need into my safe, i am dirty or wet, it is dark, whatever, and it has been six months, so any battery is probably dead, i can't see it very well, and many kepads wont work and certainly no fingerprint **** would ever work, even if the battery wasnt dead.

bottom line, my safe will always be a mechanical lock.

Some Junkie Cosmonaut said:

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Touchless said:

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I have no idea what they were searching for or if it's been mentioned in this thread, but simply for argumentative sake, what if the person being investigated has a child smuggling and sex trafficking ring and the safe may have contents to where kids are located and who else is involved or something?

Would there be any situation where you'd be okay with a company assisting the government in a situation like this when they have a warrant for a location and all of the contents there?

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Extreme hypothetical aside (and what a strange scenario you jumped to for a gun safe)…



Maybe try learning something sometime.

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I mean, not all safes are just for guns dip***** Christ, some of y'all are just so emotional you can't even think straight and have actual discussions without getting all up in your feelings.

You can call it a strange scenario if you want, but child trafficking has been a bigger topic this year with a massive movie that came out over summer on it.

ChemEAg08 said:

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Space-Tech said:

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A few things.

• A company exists for only one purpose, to make money.
• If you think a company is "on your side" you are wrong.
• A company can only exist as so long the government allows it.

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We here in the United States believe that the government is allowed to exist based on if the people allow it, commie.

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The guy who got backdoored by the feds thought he could stop allowing it, he was wrong.

The company is not wrong for giving up the code, they are wrong for having a code at all.

Touchless said:

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Some Junkie Cosmonaut said:

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Touchless said:

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I have no idea what they were searching for or if it's been mentioned in this thread, but simply for argumentative sake, what if the person being investigated has a child smuggling and sex trafficking ring and the safe may have contents to where kids are located and who else is involved or something?

Would there be any situation where you'd be okay with a company assisting the government in a situation like this when they have a warrant for a location and all of the contents there?

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Extreme hypothetical aside (and what a strange scenario you jumped to for a gun safe)…



Maybe try learning something sometime.

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I mean, not all safes are just for guns dip***** Christ, some of y'all are just so emotional you can't even think straight and have actual discussions without getting all up in your feelings.

You can call it a strange scenario if you want, but child trafficking has been a bigger topic this year with a massive movie that came out over summer on it.

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Are you suggesting that child traffickers keep meticulous records and store them in safes?

Quote:

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I mean, not all safes are just for guns dip***** Christ, some of y'all are just so emotional you can't even think straight

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Do you know why this topic was even started on here or why it's being discussed?

Quote:

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Last week, a friend of ours was raided by the feds over J6, his name is Nathan Hughes and he's from Fayetteville, Arkansas. Nate was raided by the FBI and arrested at gun point. His girlfriend (who just had a miscarriage) was held at gun point and put in handcuffs. The FBI turned off his security cameras, unplugged his internet, and flipped his house upside down in a search. The feds called the manufacturer of his Liberty Gun Safe and got the passcode to get into it too. All for protesting at the Capitol over 2 1/2 years ago.

He is being charged with crimes related to January 6th. He didn't assault anyone and he didn't vandalize anything. He is being labeled a domestic terrorist and a traitor to his country by woke leftists and the media.

Nate is just like us…he's an outspoken American Patriot…he loves freedom, loves his country, and would do anything to preserve our rights. He's been fighting to save our country for years now.

He's also a small business owner with a family that relies on him.

We all know how heated this political climate is getting, but they've pushed too far and it's time for people to speak up for people getting screwed by the system. BLM and Antifa can go burn down our cities and get off the hook, but Trump supporters get raided and rounded up for protesting.

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Quote:

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I mean, not all safes are just for guns dip***** Christ, some of y'all are just so emotional you can't even think straight and have actual discussions without getting all up in your feelings.

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Liberty Safe - "America's #1 Gun Safe!"

…yeah where did we get the idea of gun safes? And you can call me a "dip****" and "emotional" if it makes you feel better. A smarter person would realize I was pointing out the inevitable slippery slope of dealing with government. Actually, a smarter person wouldn't have needed that pointed out in the first place.

oh no said:

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Touchless said:

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I have no idea what they were searching for or if it's been mentioned in this thread, but simply for argumentative sake, what if the person being investigated has a child smuggling and sex trafficking ring and the safe may have contents to where kids are located and who else is involved or something?

Would there be any situation where you'd be okay with a company assisting the government in a situation like this when they have a warrant for a location and all of the contents there?

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Totally subjective when they can get a warrant to open your safe for whatever the regime wants to get it for.... is it for possible kiddie porn (great!)? ...or could it just be for someone's guns because they're a political opponent of the regime and they might have said something online about demonstrating at the Capitol on Jan 6, 2021? Can you trust the government to draw a line somewhere in between and stick to it? Seems like "slippery slope" might be approp here.

How about the government, once they have a warrant for the contents of someone's safe and the owner is unable (already been dispatched or not locatable) or refuses to open the safe, they have to use a locksmith with drills, tools, and techniques to open the safe, just like anyone else? Because if you're a safe company trying to sell safes, a safe isn't really safe if the government can just ask for a code and open it when they want to, regardless of who puts what in it.

of course, if you're currently a democrat and you worship your benevolent overlords in government and only wish to be governed harder because they only go after anti-communists and would never turn on you- ever- they're here to help, then yes, make all safes immediately openable at the government's beck and call.

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I asked what situation would you be okay with it? Is there one? Do you have a threshold where you'd support it? Don't focus on one random hypothetical situation. Would certain Class A felonies be okay? What about Class B felonies?

I don't think you can just say "terrorism" and allow that since the left considers Jan 6 to be "terrorism". The term "terrorism" or "terrorist" is weaponized just like how everyone is equated to being Hitler. Jan 6 being the worst day in history since pearl harbor, etc.

eric76 said:

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Touchless said:

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Some Junkie Cosmonaut said:

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Touchless said:

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I have no idea what they were searching for or if it's been mentioned in this thread, but simply for argumentative sake, what if the person being investigated has a child smuggling and sex trafficking ring and the safe may have contents to where kids are located and who else is involved or something?

Would there be any situation where you'd be okay with a company assisting the government in a situation like this when they have a warrant for a location and all of the contents there?

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Extreme hypothetical aside (and what a strange scenario you jumped to for a gun safe)…



Maybe try learning something sometime.

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I mean, not all safes are just for guns dip***** Christ, some of y'all are just so emotional you can't even think straight and have actual discussions without getting all up in your feelings.

You can call it a strange scenario if you want, but child trafficking has been a bigger topic this year with a massive movie that came out over summer on it.

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Are you suggesting that child traffickers keep meticulous records and store them in safes?

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You think large scale crime rings just keep things out in the open and unsecured? I bet Epstein just kept everything on a notepad and nothing stored at all.

Don't focus on the child traffickers example. That's irrelevant to the original question.

Watermelon Man said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Watermelon Man said:

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Cynic said:

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Nanomachines son said:

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YOU HAVE THE COMBINATION. pic.twitter.com/9S0xLlmwta

— Walleyes, Whitetails & Whiskeys are all around us (@weirbeard1) September 6, 2023

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So the government could just hire a locksmith as well.

Meaning they can get in these even if they didn't get the code

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I am sure there are folks on this board that know this, but apparently not all.

Liberty will only give the "back door" instructions to a licensed locksmith. The locksmith has a responsibility to keep that information confidential. The consumer has no obligation. That is why the consumer has to call a locksmith.

The FBI has licensed locksmiths on their payroll. That is why they don't have to call one, they already have one. Even with that, they had to provide a legitimate warrant to get the information.

If you think the lack of "back door" instructions would have kept the FBI out, you aren't thinking clearly. If they want in, they will get in.

If there was no "back door" Liberty Safes would sell very few units, since if a consumer forgot the combination, it would become a very large and expensive paperweight.

What some people decide to get riled up about is fascinating.

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Wait, so they will only give the access code - a code that is keyed in by any human with a finger - to a locksmith, but won't give it to an FBI agent with a warrant unless the FBI agent is a locksmith?

That's the dumbest thing I've ever read.

LOL.

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You really believe the "back door" is a simple access code - a code that is keyed in by any human with a finger?

Talk about dumb things to read.

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While it would be possible to have a different password for each safe, every computer style backdoor that I have heard of did have a single password for everyone.

If it does depend on the safe, is there a visible serial number on the outside of the safe that they could pass to the company to get the back door password for that particular safe?

If there is a single password for all, what do you bet it becomes public?

i already gave you an answer a few posts up.

but now you're responding on here by calling everyone dip***** that are too emotional to think straight.

The feds didn't have to break into a liberty gun safe because the manufacturer can just let them into the gun safe. This thread is about that; the thread is not just about your hypothetical question posed in the middle of the thread. Sure, people can put things other than guns in a safe. It's not too emotional to think straight if people aren't picturing some other kind of smaller non-gun safe in your hypothetically posed question.

Some Junkie Cosmonaut said:

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Quote:

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I mean, not all safes are just for guns dip***** Christ, some of y'all are just so emotional you can't even think straight and have actual discussions without getting all up in your feelings.

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Liberty Safe - "America's #1 Gun Safe!"

…yeah where did we get the idea of gun safes? And you can call me a "dip****" and "emotional" if it makes you feel better. A smarter person would realize I was pointing out the inevitable slippery slope of dealing with government. Actually, a smarter person wouldn't have needed that pointed out in the first place.

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Yeah, the gun safe where you only store guns in it. That's literally all they are used for because that's their slogan. Way to go smart guy.

oh no said:

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i already gave you an answer a few posts up.

but now you're responding on here by calling everyone dip***** that are too emotional to think straight.

The feds didn't have to break into a liberty gun safe because the manufacturer can just let them into the gun safe. This thread is about that; the thread is not just about your hypothetical question posed in the middle of the thread. Sure, people can put things other than guns in a safe. It's not too emotional to think straight if people aren't picturing some other kind of smaller non-gun safe in your hypothetically posed question.

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You didn't really give an answer for a certain situation. If you think it's a no for all circumstances, then that's fine. That's your opinion.

And I'm calling one person a dip****, not everyone. If you can't respond in a regular conversational way and you're clearing being emotional, then I'm going to say it. If you're being emotional, then you're not able to think rationally. Emotions and logic don't go together.

Most on here just aren't capable of having an actual conversation and immediately resort to the extremes, which I assume they would not do in person.

Touchless said:

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Some Junkie Cosmonaut said:

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Touchless said:

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I have no idea what they were searching for or if it's been mentioned in this thread, but simply for argumentative sake, what if the person being investigated has a child smuggling and sex trafficking ring and the safe may have contents to where kids are located and who else is involved or something?

Would there be any situation where you'd be okay with a company assisting the government in a situation like this when they have a warrant for a location and all of the contents there?

---

Extreme hypothetical aside (and what a strange scenario you jumped to for a gun safe)…



Maybe try learning something sometime.

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I mean, not all safes are just for guns dip***** Christ, some of y'all are just so emotional you can't even think straight and have actual discussions without getting all up in your feelings.

You can call it a strange scenario if you want, but child trafficking has been a bigger topic this year with a massive movie that came out over summer on it.

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In an ideal world where we could actually trust these agencies and there were no slippery slopes, I'd be all for that. But the feds have proven they simply can't "play nice" or be objective.

I just don't like safe companies being accountable or compelled to do the work for the feds, sorry. Get a warrant and cut that b*tch open.

Dimebag Darrell said:

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Touchless said:

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Some Junkie Cosmonaut said:

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Touchless said:

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I have no idea what they were searching for or if it's been mentioned in this thread, but simply for argumentative sake, what if the person being investigated has a child smuggling and sex trafficking ring and the safe may have contents to where kids are located and who else is involved or something?

Would there be any situation where you'd be okay with a company assisting the government in a situation like this when they have a warrant for a location and all of the contents there?

---

Extreme hypothetical aside (and what a strange scenario you jumped to for a gun safe)…



Maybe try learning something sometime.

---

I mean, not all safes are just for guns dip***** Christ, some of y'all are just so emotional you can't even think straight and have actual discussions without getting all up in your feelings.

You can call it a strange scenario if you want, but child trafficking has been a bigger topic this year with a massive movie that came out over summer on it.

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In an ideal world where we could actually trust these agencies and there were no slippery slopes, I'd be all for that. But the feds have proven they simply can't "play nice" or be objective.

I just don't like safe companies being accountable or compelled to do the work for the feds, sorry. Get a warrant and cut that b*tch open.

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Yeah, I'd think it's fair to get a warrant, specifically for the contents of the safe, as well prior to a company providing access.

If the owner of the safe wants the safe to be functional still, then they could provide access themselves after a warrant is provided. Otherwise, they can cut it open.

Touchless said:

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oh no said:

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i already gave you an answer a few posts up.

but now you're responding on here by calling everyone dip***** that are too emotional to think straight.

The feds didn't have to break into a liberty gun safe because the manufacturer can just let them into the gun safe. This thread is about that; the thread is not just about your hypothetical question posed in the middle of the thread. Sure, people can put things other than guns in a safe. It's not too emotional to think straight if people aren't picturing some other kind of smaller non-gun safe in your hypothetically posed question.

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You didn't really give an answer for a certain situation. If you think it's a no for all circumstances, then that's fine. That's your opinion.

And I'm calling one person a dip****, not everyone. If you can't respond in a regular conversational way and you're clearing being emotional, then I'm going to say it. If you're being emotional, then you're not able to think rationally. Emotions and logic don't go together.

Most on here just aren't capable of having an actual conversation and immediately resort to the extremes, which I assume they would not do in person.

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Says the internet tough guy who would not call anyone on here a "dipsh**" in person.

Also, many of us have been banned for much less on here, just a heads up.

Dimebag Darrell said:

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Touchless said:

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oh no said:

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i already gave you an answer a few posts up.

but now you're responding on here by calling everyone dip***** that are too emotional to think straight.

The feds didn't have to break into a liberty gun safe because the manufacturer can just let them into the gun safe. This thread is about that; the thread is not just about your hypothetical question posed in the middle of the thread. Sure, people can put things other than guns in a safe. It's not too emotional to think straight if people aren't picturing some other kind of smaller non-gun safe in your hypothetically posed question.

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You didn't really give an answer for a certain situation. If you think it's a no for all circumstances, then that's fine. That's your opinion.

And I'm calling one person a dip****, not everyone. If you can't respond in a regular conversational way and you're clearing being emotional, then I'm going to say it. If you're being emotional, then you're not able to think rationally. Emotions and logic don't go together.

Most on here just aren't capable of having an actual conversation and immediately resort to the extremes, which I assume they would not do in person.

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Says the internet tough guy who would not call anyone on here a "dipsh**" in person.

Also, many of us have been banned for much less on here, just a heads up.

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Yeah, "dip****" is super aggressive. No way that would be used in person. Really big meany over here for saying it.

Quote:

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This post is simply amazing. With one post they have destroyed their own credibility. Why would anyone ever buy a liberty safe knowing they hold backdoor codes that any agency can force them to hand over?

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It it was 2004 and the FBI wanted access because of terrorism, then Liberty would be seen as complicit with terrorist had they not complied.
How AT&T Helped the NSA Spy on Millions

Quote:

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"The government has a warrant and we checked nothing. We assume everything the government does is in good faith."

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Yep. Patriot Act "Sneak and Peek" was in "good faith".
How Facebook, Amazon and Google abused the Patriot Act after 9/11

Quote:

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One of the clearest examples I have ever seen of a business having zero understanding of its customers.

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You don't say?
Amazon gave Ring videos to police without owners' permission

Dimebag Darrell said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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Dimebag Darrell said:

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Are there any safe companies that have stated they would never do this? Surely there have to be some patriotic mom and pop companies that would tell the govt to get f-ed if they ever came with a warrant to access backdoor codes to safe?

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And what are they supposed to do when a federal judge compels them to comply with a valid warrant or subpoena?

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Tell them that law enforcement can use their fancy tools to break into the safe. Nothing is stopping them. But like Apple, they are going to protect their customer's privacy.

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There's a big difference in that Apple has no backdoor or way into your iCloud account or iPhone. The feds wanted them to create one, as opposed to turning over something they already had. They can issue a warrant or subpoena for something that exists, but they cannot compel creation.

If you have something you refuse to turn over or refuse to show up for court, good luck staying out of jail.

P.H. Dexippus said:

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Your long post doesn't refute anything I wrote.

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Cutting a hole in a safe with a plasma cutter is likely to damage contents (especially paper documents).

kb2001 said:

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Nanomachines son said:

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TAMUallen said:

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And now nobody will buy from them, turncoats

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Even Apple tells the government to get bent when asked.

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No they don't. Apple complies with warrants just like Liberty Safe did. The only company I know of that told the US govt to eff off was Lavabit, a secure email provider. When the feds demanded their private keys to decrypt emails during the Edward Snowden hunt, they told the feds to **** off, and shut down their company instead.

The real betrayal of Liberty Safe is that the backdoor exists at all.

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Unless it changed, I think what the post referred to was Apple denying the Feds access to the encryption code and not providing a backdoor to the encryption codes for communication.

This was news when Apple refused this information to the Feds so they could read the text messages a couple of terrorists had on their iPhones after they were killed in California.

Apple Won't Help the FBI Unlock a Terrorist's iPhone.

I believe Apple will comply with subpoenas if the data is stored in thei iCloud.

Watermelon Man said:

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Dimebag Darrell said:

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Four Seasons Landscaping said:

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Putting aside the ethical questions about Liberty Safe….


Is there anybody here who actually thinks they have a physical safe that would keep the FBI out for any substantial amount of time?

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That's not the point. No, I don't think anyone here is stupid enough to think god forsaken anti-American b**** ass feds can't break into anything they want.

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I do believe that, by definition, the Feds are pro-American. If you are against the Feds, you are, by definition, against America.

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Yes the Feds/FBI take an oath. But many have not followed that oath in the past and currently.

You may want to review the Constitution and the hard stop points in Federal/State, government authorities AND the rights of the people guaranteed in the Constitution and Bill of Rights to protect the people from government overreach. One in particular states all rights not given the government are the people's.