So who's going to be the Modelo of the safe world and take over that #1 spot

How do we know other safe companies don't do the same thing?

A TL45 rated safe means a safe cracker can crack the safe open in 45 minutes.

Now put a back door on that safe and the rating disappears. poof.

ETA- sorry, I overlooked the J6 raid thread from yesterday

🚨 Last week, a friend of ours was raided by the feds over J6, his name is Nathan Hughes and he’s from Fayetteville, Arkansas. Nate was raided by the FBI and arrested at gun point. His girlfriend (who just had a miscarriage) was held at gun point and put in handcuffs. The FBI… pic.twitter.com/LOpMQ28eUJ

— Hodgetwins (@hodgetwins) September 5, 2023

TRADUCTOR said:

---

A TL45 rated safe means a safe cracker can crack the safe open in 45 minutes.

Now put a back door on that safe and the rating disappears. poof.

---

Liberty's products aren't true safes. I doubt they have anything above an RSC rating.

Who does Liberty buy their locks from anyway? That's who installed the backdoor, though Liberty knowingly uses the part.

geoag58 said:

---

The Banned said:

---

TheHulkster said:

---

It is disappointing, but even if the feds weren't given the master combo, how long would that really delay them getting into the safe? I seriously doubt there's a gun safe on the market at any price that can't be cracked with enough time and motivation. Your gun safe is to keep your kids safe and to frustrate the smash-and-grab style robbers. It's not keeping either bad guys or LEOs out if you give them enough time and/or a warrant.

---

This. Nothing was keeping the government out of a physical safe. Dumb to think otherwise. No safe is foolproof

---

All a safe does is delay an unauthorised person from getting to your stuff. The company has the master codes for a safe and will give a licensed locksmith the code IF AUTHORIZED BY YOU. The government can get a court order to open the safe. But the company should not be a part of that chain because their contract and only obligation is with the safe owner, not the federal government.

---

Well, under this logic, the government shouldn't be able to subpoena people and force them to appear in court to testify or turn over evidence/records that are potentially related to a case since they're not a defendant.

Logos Stick said:

---

Watermelon Man said:

---

Cynic said:

---

Nanomachines son said:

---

YOU HAVE THE COMBINATION. pic.twitter.com/9S0xLlmwta

— Walleyes, Whitetails & Whiskeys are all around us (@weirbeard1) September 6, 2023

---

So the government could just hire a locksmith as well.

Meaning they can get in these even if they didn't get the code

---

I am sure there are folks on this board that know this, but apparently not all.

Liberty will only give the "back door" instructions to a licensed locksmith. The locksmith has a responsibility to keep that information confidential. The consumer has no obligation. That is why the consumer has to call a locksmith.

The FBI has licensed locksmiths on their payroll. That is why they don't have to call one, they already have one. Even with that, they had to provide a legitimate warrant to get the information.

If you think the lack of "back door" instructions would have kept the FBI out, you aren't thinking clearly. If they want in, they will get in.

If there was no "back door" Liberty Safes would sell very few units, since if a consumer forgot the combination, it would become a very large and expensive paperweight.

What some people decide to get riled up about is fascinating.

---

Wait, so they will only give the access code - a code that is keyed in by any human with a finger - to a locksmith, but won't give it to an FBI agent with a warrant unless the FBI agent is a locksmith?

That's the dumbest thing I've ever read.

LOL.

---

You really believe the "back door" is a simple access code - a code that is keyed in by any human with a finger?

Talk about dumb things to read.

nortex97 said:

---

I bet there will be some funny videos of their safes going bang on the internet by the end of the day.

---

How many safes do you buy in the average day? The Venn diagram of "people who are aware of this" and "people who are currently looking to purchase a safe" is, presumably, quite small.

I have no idea what they were searching for or if it's been mentioned in this thread, but simply for argumentative sake, what if the person being investigated has a child smuggling and sex trafficking ring and the safe may have contents to where kids are located and who else is involved or something?

Would there be any situation where you'd be okay with a company assisting the government in a situation like this when they have a warrant for a location and all of the contents there?

kb2001 said:

---

Nanomachines son said:

---

TAMUallen said:

---

And now nobody will buy from them, turncoats

---

Even Apple tells the government to get bent when asked.

---

No they don't. Apple complies with warrants just like Liberty Safe did. The only company I know of that told the US govt to eff off was Lavabit, a secure email provider. When the feds demanded their private keys to decrypt emails during the Edward Snowden hunt, they told the feds to **** off, and shut down their company instead.

The real betrayal of Liberty Safe is that the backdoor exists at all.

---

Apple Fights Court Order to Unlock San Bernardino Shooter's iPhone

When did they change their policy? Can you give examples?

I guess now would be as good a time as any to let the powers that be know not only did I lose all my guns in a tragic boating accident, I lost my safe as well.

They have locked down the original post and no one can comment on it, but the damage is already done.

Touchless said:

---

I have no idea what they were searching for or if it's been mentioned in this thread, but simply for argumentative sake, what if the person being investigated has a child smuggling and sex trafficking ring and the safe may have contents to where kids are located and who else is involved or something?

Would there be any situation where you'd be okay with a company assisting the government in a situation like this when they have a warrant for a location and all of the contents there?

---

The old "think of the children" tactic

The bigger problem here is that they have base master codes that cannot be changed. Now everyone knows they exist and like morons they probably store these electronically in the cloud. I fully expect that the Indians have already sold the data with the master codes since they always sell cloud based data.

So regardless of the government getting a warrant here, the master codes are probably already out there in the internet.

Touchless said:

---

I have no idea what they were searching for or if it's been mentioned in this thread, but simply for argumentative sake, what if the person being investigated has a child smuggling and sex trafficking ring and the safe may have contents to where kids are located and who else is involved or something?

Would there be any situation where you'd be okay with a company assisting the government in a situation like this when they have a warrant for a location and all of the contents there?

---

Yes I would be okay with it, but I will never buy a Liberty Safe. See, both can be true.

agdoc2001 said:

---

Touchless said:

---

I have no idea what they were searching for or if it's been mentioned in this thread, but simply for argumentative sake, what if the person being investigated has a child smuggling and sex trafficking ring and the safe may have contents to where kids are located and who else is involved or something?

Would there be any situation where you'd be okay with a company assisting the government in a situation like this when they have a warrant for a location and all of the contents there?

---

The old "think of the children" tactic

---

So you're saying you wouldn't be supportive if it was in that type of situation? It was a genuine question.

Is there any situation where you would be okay with it? What if the Boston marathon bombers had a safe in their house? Massive manhunt underway for them. Could be some valuable information in the safe that could potentially stop other mass terrorist events. Would you be okay with it then?

Are there any safe companies that have stated they would never do this? Surely there have to be some patriotic mom and pop companies that would tell the govt to get f-ed if they ever came with a warrant to access backdoor codes to safe?

Touchless said:

---

agdoc2001 said:

---

Touchless said:

---

I have no idea what they were searching for or if it's been mentioned in this thread, but simply for argumentative sake, what if the person being investigated has a child smuggling and sex trafficking ring and the safe may have contents to where kids are located and who else is involved or something?

Would there be any situation where you'd be okay with a company assisting the government in a situation like this when they have a warrant for a location and all of the contents there?

---

The old "think of the children" tactic

---

So you're saying you wouldn't be supportive if it was in that type of situation? It was a genuine question.

Is there any situation where you would be okay with it? What if the Boston marathon bombers had a safe in their house? Massive manhunt underway for them. Could be some valuable information in the safe that could potentially stop other mass terrorist events. Would you be okay with it then?

---

Only if the customer was aware of the ability prior to the purchase so they can make an informed decision. I also don't like the concept of them giving the code to a locksmith, but not the verified owner. Too many bad actors in the world these days, both in government and private sector. Too easy to pass that code on to a buddy that's going to follow up in a few days and help themselves to whatever they now know is inside the safe.

87,000 new IRS agents think you might have sold more beanie babies than you're telling them about and found a friendly judge to write a warrant...

Dimebag Darrell said:

---

Are there any safe companies that have stated they would never do this? Surely there have to be some patriotic mom and pop companies that would tell the govt to get f-ed if they ever came with a warrant to access backdoor codes to safe?

---

I doubt these guys turn over info, but who really knows?
https://www.sturdysafe.com/

Or just buy an aftermarket lock.

P.H. Dexippus said:

---

Dimebag Darrell said:

---

Are there any safe companies that have stated they would never do this? Surely there have to be some patriotic mom and pop companies that would tell the govt to get f-ed if they ever came with a warrant to access backdoor codes to safe?

---

I doubt these guys turn over info, but who really knows?
https://www.sturdysafe.com/

Or just buy an aftermarket lock.

---

For the price, their safes better come with the model they have in the photos.

P.H. Dexippus said:

---

cbr said:

---

P.H. Dexippus said:

---

I predict a rush of current owners to replace their locks with aftermarket.

If the fed really wants into your safe, they could just destroy it. The backdoor just saves them the hassle of spending 5 minutes with a plasma cutter.

---

Thats just it though. Its not 5 minutes.

They need a crew to spend a day getting the safe out, or getting a plasma cutter in, and going to work on it. Its a big job requiring a team and resources and commitment and skill. And that wont happen without a warrant and a good enough reason at least in multiple minds, right or wrong. Its a multi day process involving a lot of people and skills.

Or the ****ing commies can just call the other commies push a button.

---

I have cut the skin off a TL rated safe (area large enough to reach in) with a plasma cutter in 5 minutes. Liberty safes are not even TL rated. It's not going to take a day for the feds to get inside unless they want it too. I would also wager that the vast majority of safe owners do not even bother to correctly anchor them, so removal isn't that big a deal.

My whole point is that while Liberty has done a crappy thing, it wasn't really stopping the feds from invading their owner's privacy with a warrant.

---

Ok let me walk you through this. They have to find the safe. Then find a team. Then find the tools. Then get the warrant. Then get them all in one place. Then go to work on it. Make sure they dont destroy contents or light off flamables if they really use a plasma (probably not). Maybe be accountable for damage (ok not really anymore but one can dream of justice). Then send everybody and everything back where it started. Its a big effort.

Or one moron can just push a button.

Your long post doesn't refute anything I wrote.

samurai_science said:

---

Touchless said:

---

agdoc2001 said:

---

Touchless said:

---

I have no idea what they were searching for or if it's been mentioned in this thread, but simply for argumentative sake, what if the person being investigated has a child smuggling and sex trafficking ring and the safe may have contents to where kids are located and who else is involved or something?

Would there be any situation where you'd be okay with a company assisting the government in a situation like this when they have a warrant for a location and all of the contents there?

---

The old "think of the children" tactic

---

So you're saying you wouldn't be supportive if it was in that type of situation? It was a genuine question.

Is there any situation where you would be okay with it? What if the Boston marathon bombers had a safe in their house? Massive manhunt underway for them. Could be some valuable information in the safe that could potentially stop other mass terrorist events. Would you be okay with it then?

---

I am not okay with it.

For every fictional situation you come up with we will have 20 where the Feds use it for malicious or political purposes.

But please continue to conjure up imaginary scenarios while in the real world its used by corrupt agents.

---

I mean, it's a genuine question. Not sure why you're being emotional about it instead of just answering or having a discussion on it.

I agree there's a **** load of corruption in the government and it could be use maliciously.

hurricanejake02 said:

---

Touchless said:

---

agdoc2001 said:

---

Touchless said:

---

I have no idea what they were searching for or if it's been mentioned in this thread, but simply for argumentative sake, what if the person being investigated has a child smuggling and sex trafficking ring and the safe may have contents to where kids are located and who else is involved or something?

Would there be any situation where you'd be okay with a company assisting the government in a situation like this when they have a warrant for a location and all of the contents there?

---

The old "think of the children" tactic

---

So you're saying you wouldn't be supportive if it was in that type of situation? It was a genuine question.

Is there any situation where you would be okay with it? What if the Boston marathon bombers had a safe in their house? Massive manhunt underway for them. Could be some valuable information in the safe that could potentially stop other mass terrorist events. Would you be okay with it then?

---

Only if the customer was aware of the ability prior to the purchase so they can make an informed decision. I also don't like the concept of them giving the code to a locksmith, but not the verified owner. Too many bad actors in the world these days, both in government and private sector. Too easy to pass that code on to a buddy that's going to follow up in a few days and help themselves to whatever they now know is inside the safe.

87,000 new IRS agents think you might have sold more beanie babies than you're telling them about and found a friendly judge to write a warrant...

---

Having it known as a possibility when buying the safe would definitely alleviate part of the issue. At least then the consumer can make an informed decision. I'd imagine most wouldn't give it a second thought as they don't think they'd ever be investigated and have a search warrant issued though either.

Dimebag Darrell said:

---

Are there any safe companies that have stated they would never do this? Surely there have to be some patriotic mom and pop companies that would tell the govt to get f-ed if they ever came with a warrant to access backdoor codes to safe?

---

And what are they supposed to do when a federal judge compels them to comply with a valid warrant or subpoena?

Putting aside the ethical questions about Liberty Safe….


Is there anybody here who actually thinks they have a physical safe that would keep the FBI out for any substantial amount of time?

Rebranding underway...
"Liberty Safe-ish: You'll need a warrant to crack these suckers"

Four Seasons Landscaping said:

---

Putting aside the ethical questions about Liberty Safe….


Is there anybody here who actually thinks they have a physical safe that would keep the FBI out for any substantial amount of time?

---

That's not the point. No, I don't think anyone here is stupid enough to think god forsaken anti-American b**** ass feds can't break into anything they want.

ABATTBQ11 said:

---

Dimebag Darrell said:

---

Are there any safe companies that have stated they would never do this? Surely there have to be some patriotic mom and pop companies that would tell the govt to get f-ed if they ever came with a warrant to access backdoor codes to safe?

---

And what are they supposed to do when a federal judge compels them to comply with a valid warrant or subpoena?

---

Tell them that law enforcement can use their fancy tools to break into the safe. Nothing is stopping them. But like Apple, they are going to protect their customer's privacy.

Dimebag Darrell said:

---

Four Seasons Landscaping said:

---

Putting aside the ethical questions about Liberty Safe….


Is there anybody here who actually thinks they have a physical safe that would keep the FBI out for any substantial amount of time?

---

That's not the point. No, I don't think anyone here is stupid enough to think god forsaken anti-American b**** ass feds can't break into anything they want.

---

I do believe that, by definition, the Feds are pro-American. If you are against the Feds, you are, by definition, against America.