But a large portion (maybe most) of them aren't doing their job - especially the ones lying about being on vacation and faking like they are working more than 1-2 hours per day.

They are simply putting their effort into making it difficult to reveal their lack of work. Meanwhile their colleagues carry the load of whatever needs to get done, or there wasn't really enough work to justify their job in the first place.

WFH has made it much harder to identify and weed out the slackers. And it's not a generational thing, there have always been lazy people. It's just inefficient to catch them now and we will all pay the price for lower average productivity.

Captain Winky said:

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Were you checking in and asking where they lived or if they moved and they told you no? Is there a policy that all address changes have to be announced to management?

If there was no policy or rule against moving and they weren't lying to you when asked, I don't see any deception.

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A policy specifically allowing you to move to wherever AND not provide any notification of your address would be the only thing that would save you from being considered "deceptive" in my book.

Other caveat would be if there was a reason to not disclose the move and new location due to safety reasons such as a crazy ex-gf.

At my company, I am management, HR and chief policy setter. You do not need my permission to move, but I would expect you to provide me with a current address and to update when moving to ensure we have the appropriate information on file for reporting and tax purposes.

In what world do people live in where they think they have no obligation to update their employers on such information? Also, policies protect the employer not the employee.

Move and not tell me and it turns out to cause an issue, you are going to be finding new employment. But I fired a person for voting for Biden so there is that as well.

FrioAg 00 said:

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But a large portion (maybe most) of them aren't doing their job - especially the ones lying about being on vacation and faking like they are working more than 1-2 hours per day.

They are simply putting their effort into making it difficult to reveal their lack of work. Meanwhile their colleagues carry the load of whatever needs to get done, or there wasn't really enough work to justify their job in the first place.

WFH has made it much harder to identify and weed out the slackers. And it's not a generational thing, there have always been lazy people. It's just inefficient to catch them now and we will all pay the price for lower average productivity.

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But that wasn't the question you responded to. For the ones doing their jobs, who is carrying their load?

I responded to a 9 word post which was responding to the OP.

Did you read the OP? The one where 1/3 of this generation admitted to faking work while working 1-2 hours or less during weeks of hidden vacations? And 3/4 of them took reprimands or got fired for it.

You are making up new scenarios where we talk about people doing their jobs.

WFH isn't the best solution for ever industry, nor is it the best solution for every person. COVID forced it to be used in places it doesn't belong with people who got used to abusing it.

I don't know if I could ever go back to working in an office. I get FAR more done in less hours doing WFH than in an office, and there are days I don't even get out of bed until my first meeting at 9 or 10. I don't have idiots coming to my office door to bother me about random crap, and I can work through a pointless meeting while barely half listening instead of sitting in a conference room pretending to pay attention.

I'm salary, though, and have a lot of moments of downtime while other teams work through blockers I have on projects. There are other days where I work a solid 8-10 hours nonstop and easily get more work done than I would over 4 or 5 days in the office.

FrioAg 00 said:

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I responded to a 9 word post which was responding to the OP.

Did you read the OP? The one where 1/3 of this generation admitted to faking work while working 1-2 hours or less during weeks of hidden vacations? And 3/4 of them took reprimands or got fired for it.

You are making up new scenarios where we talk about people doing their jobs.

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Patience, these new scenarios take time...

Boomers are just mad they have to sexually harass the office secretary via zoom and not in person anymore

There is no integrity working 2hrs a day and getting paid for 8. That life requires rationalization.

TRADUCTOR said:

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There is no integrity working 2hrs a day and getting paid for 8. That life requires rationalization.

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This, you are gonna make some of these posters mad though who have now rationalized this theft over the last 3 years

Greatest generation was happy not to be getting shot at by Nazis or dive-bombed by Japanese cultists, and were happy to have a job.

Boomers were owned by their employers, but they accepted it because they were well-compensated and materialistic.

Gen Xers evened the balance of power. When they didn't like their jobs, they left. Employers had to compete.

Millennials changed the benefits. They lost out on pensions, but they got more vacation, paid parental leave, gym memberships, etc. They gave up money for freedom.

Gen Z has changed the location of work. They are the endgame for a post-manufacturing society. If your company doesn't actually make anything, why does it matter where the work occurs? And, since relationships are all on-line (according to their thinking), why are face to face interactions even necessary?

TRADUCTOR said:

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There is no integrity working 2hrs a day and getting paid for 8. That life requires rationalization.

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If you're salaried, you're not getting paid an hourly rate...you're getting paid a yearly rate...

94chem said:

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Greatest generation was happy not to be getting shot at by Nazis or dive-bombed by Japanese cultists, and were happy to have a job.

Boomers were owned by their employers, but they accepted it because they were well-compensated and materialistic.

Gen Xers evened the balance of power. When they didn't like their jobs, they left. Employers had to compete.

Millennials changed the benefits. They lost out on pensions, but they got more vacation, paid parental leave, gym memberships, etc. They gave up money for freedom.

Gen Z has changed the location of work. They are the endgame for a post-manufacturing society. If your company doesn't actually make anything, why does it matter where the work occurs? And, since relationships are all on-line (according to their thinking), why are face to face interactions even necessary?

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You are wrong about Gen X. They got shiat on because there were 3 times as many workers as them with 10 more years experience to boot, so they had the least leverage of all. And when it was Gen X's turn the boomers realized the shinking workforce was a problem they needed to correct by bringing in younger workers, so they promoted Millennials over Gen X.

FrioAg 00 said:

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WFH has made it much harder to identify and weed out the slackers. And it's not a generational thing, there have always been lazy people. It's just inefficient to catch them now and we will all pay the price for lower average productivity.

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I still don't think it's that hard. You can get a solid idea how long a task took by looking at the deliverable, and if there's any uncertainty, you can ask the person to explain it (maybe you find that the assumptions for the simple-looking financial model required a ton of research). I don't buy this "it's impossible to tell what your reports are doing and how much time they're wasting" line at all. If you think it's impossible then you're not familiar enough with what they're doing to be managing them.

Ag with kids said:

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TRADUCTOR said:

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There is no integrity working 2hrs a day and getting paid for 8. That life requires rationalization.

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If you're salaried, you're not getting paid an hourly rate...you're getting paid a yearly rate...

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No you are not. Where on earth did this concept ever come from?

You annual salary divided by 2080 is your hourly rate.

Holy hell there is no hope for the future if the above passes for logic.

Win At Life said:

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You are wrong about Gen X. They got shiat on because there were 3 times as many workers as them with 10 more years experience to boot, so they had the least leverage of all. And when it was Gen X's turn the boomers realized the shinking workforce was a problem they needed to correct by bringing in younger workers, so they promoted Millennials over Gen X.

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Confident username does not check out.

fka ftc said:

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Ag with kids said:

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TRADUCTOR said:

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There is no integrity working 2hrs a day and getting paid for 8. That life requires rationalization.

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If you're salaried, you're not getting paid an hourly rate...you're getting paid a yearly rate...

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No you are not. Where on earth did this concept ever come from?

You annual salary divided by 2080 is your hourly rate.

Holy hell there is no hope for the future if the above passes for logic.

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While that is a nice rule of thumb for AN hourly rate, my pay rate has one number - the yearly rate (and all of my jobs have done the same).

If your salaried employee works MORE than 40 hrs in a week, do you have to pay them for those extra hours. ?

I know MINE doesn't (the state of Texas). I get paid $X/yr if I work 2080 hrs or 2280 hrs. Hint: That is a YEARLY rate.

You seem to have a firm grasp on your one number for annual pay concept. I will defer to you on all things employment and compensation related from here on out.

Man, government is great at making sure its employees are on time and in their seats for an eight-hour day. I bet those agencies are really getting things done.

Sometimes I feel like the only self reflective WFH guy....

I question the whole thing and if it's been good for me, my team, my company, and the world in general.

TBH - I am not entirely sure. But I am not about to drive into work unless I have to.

I have always said that my employer, should they ever demand it, has the right to make me come into the office..... which the closest for me would be a 5-6 hour drive to Atlanta. I'd probably quit TBH. Not leaving the Gulf Coast here in Bama. Done with big city life. Even if I have to make less to live here.

fka ftc said:

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You seem to have a firm grasp on your one number for annual pay concept. I will defer to you on all things employment and compensation related from here on out.

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If I take your 40 X 52, and I subtract the 40x6 for my vacation and time off I get..... then the number doesn't work out. Then factor in the bonus too -- if there is one.

If I take the one $300M idea that I commercialized, and divide it into a life, they're lucky I even show up. Fortunately, I like my job. Here's to the current idea.

fka ftc said:

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You seem to have a firm grasp on your one number for annual pay concept. I will defer to you on all things employment and compensation related from here on out.

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He is right you know. A ton of salaried jobs don't fit neatly into an 8 hour x 5 day box. They require late days here and there, weekend work during quarterly reporting, 6am travel (which means leaving your house at 4am), client dinners, etc. And the company isn't paying you extra at "your hourly rate" when they require this.

fka ftc said:

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You seem to have a firm grasp on your one number for annual pay concept. I will defer to you on all things employment and compensation related from here on out.

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That's a smart idea...

Since I'm correct on this issue...

TheEternalPessimist said:

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fka ftc said:

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You seem to have a firm grasp on your one number for annual pay concept. I will defer to you on all things employment and compensation related from here on out.

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If I take your 40 X 52, and I subtract the 40x6 for my vacation and time off I get..... then the number doesn't work out. Then factor in the bonus too -- if there is one.

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What about the weeks where it's not 40, but 50 or 60. Does the amount of pay you receive for that week increase? Salaried workers say...no...

So, apparently the hourly rate is VARIABLE...

Ag with kids said:

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fka ftc said:

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You seem to have a firm grasp on your one number for annual pay concept. I will defer to you on all things employment and compensation related from here on out.

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That's a smart idea...

Since I'm correct on this issue...

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And if I give you a raise mid year, do you do fractions and such to get back to you magical annual value?

What if I told you certain salaried employees are overtime? What about salary employees paid at an hourly rate?

There are only two primary types of employees in the United States. Exempt and non-exempt and it literally has ZERO to do with whether I pay you according to an annual salary or an hourly rate.

Some hourly workers are still classified as exempt on FLSA if they fall into certain categories such as computer professionals, teachers, lawyers, doctors.

You are woefully incorrect on the "issue" as you lack the basic understanding of the concepts involved.

Also, I can change your salary at any point in time with a simple notification to you (in Texas) and you can decide to keep working from that moment forward or take a hike. Your "salary" is nothing other than an agreed upon rate for you to show up to your job. Its not a promise, guaranty or anything of the sort. Just a simple agreement on wage rate, whether you want to view that as hourly, annual, widgets delivered, days of the week.

So know, listening to you on this topic is generally NOT a smart idea.

He's not incorrect. You claimed that salaried employees have an hourly rate that's equal to salary divided by 2080. That's not accurate (or even close to it) for a ton of salaried employees.

TRADUCTOR said:

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There is no integrity working 2hrs a day and getting paid for 8. That life requires rationalization.

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There is no integrity in having your employees work for 12 hours and paying them for 8. You going to complain about that dynamic?

As it turns out, the point of a salary is to shift the terms of employment from showing up to being productive. If your primary concern is having someone show up from 8 to 5 every day, pay them hourly. If your primary concern is paying someone to meet deadlines and complete projects in a competent manner, pay them salary.

There is a difference between not doing your job and not working X number of hours. One matters. The other doesn't.

My work is very project based. Some weeks are 80 hours. Some are 15 hours. Do I lack integrity if I don't waste my time on the short weeks organizing my pencils to meet the 40 hour threshold that you've deemed the virtuous number? Do I receive sainthood for working overtime on the busy weeks?

Deputy Travis Junior said:

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He's not incorrect. You claimed that salaried employees have an hourly rate that's equal to salary divided by 2080. That's not accurate (or even close to it) for a ton of salaried employees.

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Sure, math is forbidden on an "annual" salary. I've used ADP, Paylocity, Paychex and Paycor and every single, solid one of those takes whatever you input as salary and converts it to hourly rate.

This is required for orgs that use PTO, particularly ones where your PTO is accrued per pay period.

I am perfectly fine knowing what I know. If others are fine to not know what they don't know, that's on them.

fka ftc said:

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Ag with kids said:

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fka ftc said:

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You seem to have a firm grasp on your one number for annual pay concept. I will defer to you on all things employment and compensation related from here on out.

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That's a smart idea...

Since I'm correct on this issue...

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Quote:

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And if I give you a raise mid year, do you do fractions and such to get back to you magical annual value?

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If you give a raise to the salaried worker, then you've changed the yearly rate. This is the DUMBEST gotcha I've seen so far...

Quote:

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Also, I can change your salary at any point in time with a simple notification to you (in Texas) and you can decide to keep working from that moment forward or take a hike. Your "salary" is nothing other than an agreed upon rate for you to show up to your job. Its not a promise, guaranty or anything of the sort. Just a simple agreement on wage rate, whether you want to view that as hourly, annual, widgets delivered, days of the week.

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Again...changing the yearly rate doesn't make it suddenly an hourly rate...

And of course it's an agreed upon rate. Duh. Wages are just prices. I know that. Your gotchas are not as smart as you think they are.

Quote:

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What if I told you certain salaried employees are overtime? What about salary employees paid at an hourly rate?

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But if you're paying them for overtime, then your 2080 hours for your calculation is incorrect. Are you telling me you were wrong when you made that statement above?

BTW, if you DO pay a salaried worker for OT (which does not need to be done), you don't have to pay them pay them ALL of it or at time and half or anything like that. (I've seen 10 hr carve outs, then straight time after that). However, that pay is over and above the yearly rate. It would also completely mess up YOUR hourly rate calculation...

Quote:

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There are only two primary types of employees in the United States. Exempt and non-exempt and it literally has ZERO to do with whether I pay you according to an annual salary or an hourly rate.

Some hourly workers are still classified as exempt on FLSA if they fall into certain categories such as computer professionals, teachers, lawyers, doctors.

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I know this...so what...However, I do like that now you're agreeing that salary is an annual rate not an hourly rate.

Quote:

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You are woefully incorrect on the "issue" as you lack the basic understanding of the concepts involved.

So know, listening to you on this topic is generally NOT a smart idea.

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And listening to you on ANY topic, as I've seen on here, is a pretty poor idea. Still waiting for Trump to ascend to office prior to 2025...

fka ftc said:

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Deputy Travis Junior said:

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He's not incorrect. You claimed that salaried employees have an hourly rate that's equal to salary divided by 2080. That's not accurate (or even close to it) for a ton of salaried employees.

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Sure, math is forbidden on an "annual" salary. I've used ADP, Paylocity, Paychex and Paycor and every single, solid one of those takes whatever you input as salary and converts it to hourly rate.

This is required for orgs that use PTO, particularly ones where your PTO is accrued per pay period.

I am perfectly fine knowing what I know. If others are fine to not know what they don't know, that's on them.

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Well, if a software program converted it, then that's infallible...

Boomers ******* hate it when people don't work in the office

Congrats on the most nonsensical post I think I have ever read on TexAgs.

You can think of your salary as annual whichever.

Overtime is required in certain instances regardless of whether someone is salaried or hourly.

I can tell you your company's payroll system calculates your bi-weekly or semi-monthly check based on an hourly rate.

And I give two ****s if you want to listen to me or not. Others may find accurate information about how things work to be helpful even if you don't.

Reason I usually have you ignored. Today was a good reminder to make it permanent.

Ag with kids said:

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fka ftc said:

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Deputy Travis Junior said:

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He's not incorrect. You claimed that salaried employees have an hourly rate that's equal to salary divided by 2080. That's not accurate (or even close to it) for a ton of salaried employees.

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Sure, math is forbidden on an "annual" salary. I've used ADP, Paylocity, Paychex and Paycor and every single, solid one of those takes whatever you input as salary and converts it to hourly rate.

This is required for orgs that use PTO, particularly ones where your PTO is accrued per pay period.

I am perfectly fine knowing what I know. If others are fine to not know what they don't know, that's on them.

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Well, if a software program converted it, then that's infallible...

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Sorry you don't like to admit how things work in the real world.

fka ftc said:

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Deputy Travis Junior said:

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He's not incorrect. You claimed that salaried employees have an hourly rate that's equal to salary divided by 2080. That's not accurate (or even close to it) for a ton of salaried employees.

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Sure, math is forbidden on an "annual" salary. I've used ADP, Paylocity, Paychex and Paycor and every single, solid one of those takes whatever you input as salary and converts it to hourly rate.

This is required for orgs that use PTO, particularly ones where your PTO is accrued per pay period.

I am perfectly fine knowing what I know. If others are fine to not know what they don't know, that's on them.

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It fits with some salaried employees, but for many many others (including me), the idea that the company is paying me X dollars every 2 weeks to get 80 hours just doesn't work. Some weeks are light, other weeks I have to travel, get home at 2am, and then wake up and be on a 7am call with somebody in a different time zone.

In short, they're paying me to do a job, the requirements of which vary from week to week. They aren't paying me to put in 40 hours every week.

Ag with kids said:

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fka ftc said:

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Ag with kids said:

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TRADUCTOR said:

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There is no integrity working 2hrs a day and getting paid for 8. That life requires rationalization.

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If you're salaried, you're not getting paid an hourly rate...you're getting paid a yearly rate...

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No you are not. Where on earth did this concept ever come from?

You annual salary divided by 2080 is your hourly rate.

Holy hell there is no hope for the future if the above passes for logic.

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While that is a nice rule of thumb for AN hourly rate, my pay rate has one number - the yearly rate (and all of my jobs have done the same).

If your salaried employee works MORE than 40 hrs in a week, do you have to pay them for those extra hours. ?

I know MINE doesn't (the state of Texas). I get paid $X/yr if I work 2080 hrs or 2280 hrs. Hint: That is a YEARLY rate.

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Same. I'm paid a yearly rate regardless of hours worked.