TxTarpon said:

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What?
Watching millennials get offended is not a hobby?

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It is an odd one

Teslag said:

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Street Fighter said:

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Kvetch said:

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Who cares as long as they do their jobs?

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Well they aren't.

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Where did it say they weren't meeting their work productivity?

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If your mtg work requirement in one hr your employee needs to give you more **** to do.

A lot of WFH people screw around during the day and I get why people would push back against that, but the weird things to me are 1) boomers can't wrap their heads around the fact that many, many people weren't working highly productive 8 hour days in the office before for decades before covid and 2) so many managers apparently have no idea how long projects should take.

On the second, it shouldn't be difficult at all to recognize if an employee is screwing around too much. If they're on day 5 of a task that would take you 5-6 hours, you know the employee is screwing off, regardless of whether the person's butt is planted in a chair at the office, on a couch at home, or on a sandy beach in Cancun.

If you're a manager it's your job to know these things. If you don't, then you deserve the blame, not the drone taking advantage of your ineptitude.

bonfarr said:

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My wife has worked remote for the last three years and from what I can see in a typical day she puts about 4 hours of real work in and that includes all of the Zoom calls. She logs in about 8:30 and puts together emails and any docs she might need to share on one of the calls she has that day. Then they have a Zoom call for about an hour. After that she has lunch, folds laundry, watches TV, plays with the dogs, etc until the afternoon Zoom call. Then she works feverishly for about an hour from 4:30-5:30 to finish any work for the day. I imagine that is probably similar to most remote workers and why it is such a touchy subject when anyone brings up ending remote work.

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Are we married to the same woman?

Street Fighter said:

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Teslag said:

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Street Fighter said:

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Kvetch said:

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Who cares as long as they do their jobs?

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Well they aren't.

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Where did it say they weren't meeting their work productivity?

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If your mtg work requirement in one hr your employee needs to give you more **** to do.

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That's on the employer. And any good employee knows you spread that **** out

If someone is getting paid hourly, this is a big problem. If they are a salaried worker hired to do a role or set of tasks of projects, and those are getting done, then no problem. If they aren't getting done it should come out in performance reviews and work itself out.

coconutED said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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Where they live and their personal lives are none of your GD business

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I'm pretty sure that where you live is very much your employer's business.

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No. It's not. Whether I choose to live in a camper, an apartment, a house, or a cardboard box is none of their business. The only thing that is their business is whether I'm doing the work I'm being paid to do.

When I worked on the Corporate side of the business we used to have fun tracking the amount of time the smokers spent outside of the building. We had a nice outdoor lounge area by the parking garage set up for them and about 10-20 people probably spent 2 hrs a day there in total.

We also had a small herd of fat ladies that would meet up every day in the break area to eat 2nd breakfast about 9:30. They shared recipes for microwave omelets and brought all their fixins in little baggies to impress each other.

I considered them to be time stealers too.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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coconutED said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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Where they live and their personal lives are none of your GD business

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I'm pretty sure that where you live is very much your employer's business.

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No. It's not. Whether I choose to live in a camper, an apartment, a house, or a cardboard box is none of their business. The only thing that is their business is whether I'm doing the work I'm being paid to do.

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There actually are some considerations depending on the nature of the work or working site. For example, we have a sister site that requires its employees to live and work in the city limits. All sorts of tax breaks from the city that are reliant on that.

Though I generally agree with you and these situations are probably not common at all.

Spent many years working in offices and witnessing employees who were having a productive day if they did 3 hours of work. They were smoking, drinking coffee, eating, or bull****ing most of the time. You can be a lousy employee at home or in the office.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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coconutED said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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Where they live and their personal lives are none of your GD business

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I'm pretty sure that where you live is very much your employer's business.

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No. It's not. Whether I choose to live in a camper, an apartment, a house, or a cardboard box is none of their business. The only thing that is their business is whether I'm doing the work I'm being paid to do.

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It's annoying but the tax man says otherwise. If you say you're living in Texas but are actually living in California, the California government will come after your company for not paying California taxes on you.

Old May Banker said:

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Kvetch said:

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Who cares as long as they do their jobs?

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As a general rule, the man signing the front of their checks cares.

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I'm shocked, but I guess I shouldn't be, that some of you claim to have graduated from A&M and demonstrate that you unashamedly support such unethical conduct … including lying. Damn, people. If you're going to do that, don't tell anyone you graduated from my alma mater.

Ha! I used to post a Hawaiian beach background on my zoom calls in the office.

You know who else was a good come into the office every day guy?

What exactly do you think I'm lying about.?

I used to do that all the time in the late 90s early 2000s long weekends do a work call from a payphone even if needed it was easy before the internet became a thing

mncag said:

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I used to do that all the time in the late 90s early 2000s long weekends do a work call from a payphone even if needed it was easy before the internet became a thing

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Hell the idea of working from a cruise ship now that Starlink is coming would make my wife happy. Oh well.

Well, when it takes an act of Congress to fire someone and our rulers impose DEI on employers, you're going to have an access number of employees resulting in less than eight hours of work required to get the job done.

Thank God no one ever screwed around in the office.

Username appropriate

Win At Life said:

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We can't do that at my company, because we've been 100% in the office after one day of work when covid hit. But I usually come 30 minutes late. I use the side door so the boss doesn't see me. Then I just space out while looking at my computer. It looks like I'm working, but I'm not. I'd say in a given week, I do about 15 minutes of real work.

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"Uh-huh? Space out?" - The Bobs

On the flip side, I haven't used all of my PTO days in 4 years, probably wont this year either. Company is generous, we get a lot, more than I need. I came from a standard 2 weeks PTO place and now I'm at 4 wks. I got too much stuff to accomplish to peace out for a month each year. Aint gonna happen. Gen X.

pagerman @ work said:

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Thank God no one ever screwed around in the office.

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Right? All these anti-wfh crusaders can't wrap their heads around it. I had an internship one summer long before covid and this one guy would show up at 730am every day so the bosses would see him hard at work when they rolled in at 8. Well, once they saw him, he'd head to the cafeteria for breakfast at 9ish, come back and work from 10-11, take an hour and a half lunch, disappear in the afternoon for 2-3 hours to work out and look at parts for his truck, and then leave at 430 or 445 every day. He worked 4 hours a day for the entire summer I was there and I seriously doubt he was zeroed in for those half days.

According to my supervisor, he'd been doing it for over a year since the bosses had no idea how to manage or how long his tasks were supposed to take. This is the key. Whether your reports work from home or in an office, you need to have an idea what they're up to and how long their tasks take. If you don't, the problem isn't WFH, it's your crappy management skills.

Kvetch said:

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Who cares as long as they do their jobs?

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The colleagues who carry their load until they the lazy freeloaders get caught

TxTarpon said:

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Robert C. Christian said:

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Are they salaried or hourly? If salaried and deliverables and dates are met that isn't fraud. That is called doing your job.

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Wrong. "Hush trips" are about fraud and deception.
If you are supposed to be in your Houston home doing work, but are secretly in Cancun, taking your work computer out of the US and telling your employer that you are home, then you are committing fraud.

If you work for an employer who says "I don't care where you live or work," then enjoy.

Quote:

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If hourly and you are faking hours, that is fraud.

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Same with salaried lawyers and medical professionals who say they saw nonexistent patients.

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If your employer says you can work remotely, but doesn't specifically define the location that the remote work needs to be performed, then pick a fun place and enjoy...

FrioAg 00 said:

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Kvetch said:

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Who cares as long as they do their jobs?

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The colleagues who carry their load until they the lazy freeloaders get caught

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If they're doing their jobs, what load are their colleagues carrying?

Working while abroad can have tax implications as well, I've heard some countries will "demand" taxes for employees that gained income while they connect to US companies networks.

TexasAggie81 said:

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Old May Banker said:

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Kvetch said:

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Who cares as long as they do their jobs?

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As a general rule, the man signing the front of their checks cares.

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I'm shocked, but I guess I shouldn't be, that some of you claim to have graduated from A&M and demonstrate that you unashamedly support such unethical conduct … including lying. Damn, people. If you're going to do that, don't tell anyone you graduated from my alma mater.

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Is it lying when the employer doesn't give me access to the books so I can see how much profit the company makes and calculate a fair wage for myself on a more informed basis?

As long as the employee completes the tasks that are assigned, the employer doesn't have any valid complaint. Let's not pretend that employment is a situation of full transparency in both directions. You're contracting a person to complete tasks in a competent manner. You don't own them just because you sign their checks.

If the work isn't getting done, that's one thing. It's another to think you can dictate the every move of your WFH employees when they are completing the job as assigns.

TxTarpon said:

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If you subscribe to any BizJournal, then this was a featured article this week.
I found it posted without a paywall.



[url=https://www.prweb.com/releases/resumebuilder_com_survey_finds_1_in_6_generation_z_workers_used_a_virtual_background_to_fool_employers_while_taking_a_hush_trip/prweb19473377.htm][/url]

Quote:

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Survey Finds 1 in 6 Generation Z Workers Used a Virtual Background to Fool Employers While Taking a 'Hush Trip'

Based on survey results, 44 percent of Gen Zers surveyed say they have taken a vacation without their employer's permission. Of this group, 57 percent say they gave the impression that they were still working normal hours even when they were not. In fact, 4 percent say they worked less than one hour, 28 percent say 1 to 2 hours, 30 percent say 3 to 4 hours, and 23 percent say 5 to 6 hours. Only 14 percent say they worked seven or more hours.

Additionally, of employees who tried to keep up the appearance of working a full day, 65 percent say they used a virtual background to fool their employer.

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In the old days this was called "theft of time" and these people were terminated immediately.

Quote:

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Survey results also highlight the reasons why workers took 'hush trips.'
Of those who took an undisclosed trip,
51 percent say they did so because their 'PTO request was not approved,'
27 percent say they 'had no PTO to use,' and
20 percent say they 'didn't want to use PTO.'

Among all hush trip takers,
41 percent say their employer found out,
45 percent say their employer did not, and
14 percent are unsure.

Of those who were discovered,
71 percent say they were reprimanded, and
7 percent say they were fired.

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Shows how desperate employers are now to keep people. (or they don't have the sophisticated software to garner all the facts?)
When unemployment was 7-8% and employers had their choice of candidates.
The people I know still in industry say it is tough to find good workers.

This boils down to deception where these Gen Z workers are telling their employers they are working, but they are not working and are on vacation.

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Keep shilling for your chosen corporate oligarch

Kvetch said:

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TexasAggie81 said:

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Old May Banker said:

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Kvetch said:

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Who cares as long as they do their jobs?

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As a general rule, the man signing the front of their checks cares.

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I'm shocked, but I guess I shouldn't be, that some of you claim to have graduated from A&M and demonstrate that you unashamedly support such unethical conduct … including lying. Damn, people. If you're going to do that, don't tell anyone you graduated from my alma mater.

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Is it lying when the employer doesn't give me access to the books so I can see how much profit the company makes and calculate a fair wage for myself on a more informed basis?

As long as the employee completes the tasks that are assigned, the employer doesn't have any valid complaint. Let's not pretend that employment is a situation of full transparency in both directions. You're contracting a person to complete tasks in a competent manner. You don't own them just because you sign their checks.

If the work isn't getting done, that's one thing. It's another to think you can dictate the every move of your WFH employees when they are completing the job as assigns.

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How much profit the company makes is irrelevant to what a worker's wage should be.

Wages are prices. They are related to how much value the worker produces. That's it.

I do agree with the rest of your statement though.

Ag with kids said:

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Kvetch said:

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TexasAggie81 said:

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Old May Banker said:

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Kvetch said:

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Who cares as long as they do their jobs?

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As a general rule, the man signing the front of their checks cares.

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I'm shocked, but I guess I shouldn't be, that some of you claim to have graduated from A&M and demonstrate that you unashamedly support such unethical conduct … including lying. Damn, people. If you're going to do that, don't tell anyone you graduated from my alma mater.

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Is it lying when the employer doesn't give me access to the books so I can see how much profit the company makes and calculate a fair wage for myself on a more informed basis?

As long as the employee completes the tasks that are assigned, the employer doesn't have any valid complaint. Let's not pretend that employment is a situation of full transparency in both directions. You're contracting a person to complete tasks in a competent manner. You don't own them just because you sign their checks.

If the work isn't getting done, that's one thing. It's another to think you can dictate the every move of your WFH employees when they are completing the job as assigns.

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How much profit the company makes is irrelevant to what a worker's wage should be.

Wages are prices. They are related to how much value the worker produces. That's it.

I do agree with the rest of your statement though.

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Depends on the job. But I agree that performance doesn't necessarily equal profit. Point was that employers withhold relevant information when it benefits them, such as in salary negotiations. I don't consider that to be fraud. Just like it's not fraud to enjoy your life as long as you are fulfilling the duties of the job that you're paid to do. Managers should be worried about output and productivity. Not the whereabouts of their WFH employees at every second of the day.

FrioAg 00 said:

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Kvetch said:

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Who cares as long as they do their jobs?

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The colleagues who carry their load until they the lazy freeloaders get caught

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If they are doing their jobs no one is carrying their load

Were you checking in and asking where they lived or if they moved and they told you no? Is there a policy that all address changes have to be announced to management?

If there was no policy or rule against moving and they weren't lying to you when asked, I don't see any deception.

Seems like boomers are getting pretty salty some people don't have to slave away at some crappy office all day.

I don't even get the thread. I'm supposed to be upset some people are vacationing during work?