Trump indicted over classified documents

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the_batman26
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In reply to Fenrir • 10:35a, 6/9/23
AG
Speaking of the Supreme Court, I guess people have forgotten a left-leaning SCOTUS clerk (Ivy-educated at that) leaked the Dobbs decision, an unprecedented act in the highest court of the land that Democrats praised.

If a right-leaning clerk did the same, they'd be unquestionably and swiftly blacklisted from the legal field. All in a week's time.
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Rockdoc
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In reply to Aggie Apotheosis • 10:39a, 6/9/23
AG
Aggie Apotheosis said:
This thread is an embarrassment.

I back the blue. Donald Trump is a criminal. Like all criminals, he should be forced to pay the price for his crimes.

If Trump is a criminal, what is Biden?
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45-70Ag
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In reply to Rockdoc • 10:40a, 6/9/23
AG
Rockdoc said:
Aggie Apotheosis said:
This thread is an embarrassment.

I back the blue. Donald Trump is a criminal. Like all criminals, he should be forced to pay the price for his crimes.

If Trump is a criminal, what is Biden?


A criminal.
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Nitro Power
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10:41a, 6/9/23
AG
What I also find interesting is the timing. Why now, when they have wanted to destroy him forever?
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GeorgiAg
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In reply to Matt_ag98 • 10:41a, 6/9/23
AG
Matt_ag98 said:
the_batman26 said:
An "awful, senseless" crime centered around…papers. With grey area on the declassification process. And centuries of not charging process issues like these. But this selective application of the law should concern you, if you "back the blue."


Exactly, let me tell you the about of papers, hard drives etc with POTUS and staff, hell I bet if Truman was an R and wanted to search an FDR storage unit in 1948 he would have found a bunch of "classified" D-Day documents, let's get real
Would FDR have lied about it and refused to turn over the documents during numerous searches under subpoena?
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45-70Ag
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10:42a, 6/9/23
AG
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GeorgiAg
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In reply to 45-70Ag • 10:43a, 6/9/23
AG
45-70Ag said:
Trumps lawyers have quit the case CNBC is reporting. Not sure what to make of that.
Trump is a terrible client. He refuses to shut his yap. Why would anyone want to defend a person willing to destroy our country rather than turn over some documents?
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No Spin Ag
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In reply to Gigem314 • 10:44a, 6/9/23
Gigem314 said:
Quote:
You make good points. I agree that the government is overreaching. They always do, always have, and always will.

I guess the thing to me is that how much of the anger right now by Trump's supporters would be there if Trump had a D by his name? And vice versa for those on the left.
If Trump had a D next to his name, he'd be in his second term and all of his annoyances would be overlooked or spun as a positive by the same people calling for him to be charged now. He would never have been investigated as a Democrat. He would have been lionized like he was as a celebrity by the media before he took sides in politics.

Quote:
Because the fact is, so long as people support or excuse things solely by who is on "their side", things like this will continue and the country will continue to become even worse because of it. Both sides need to do better and both need to be held accountable not just by the other side but their own.
That's the reason Trump was able to run and win in the first place, because there was no accountability from either party and the voters gave them the middle finger with a strong-tongued guy who wanted to do things differently. And for that...we're told that Trump is actually the more corrupt one and not the establishment from both parties. All this is doing is creating the next 'Trump' down the road.

Quote:
As for Trump, even if Trump did what they are saying he did, I don't see him doing it for any reason other than him being his usual "in gonna do it because I want to and you can't stop me" mentality. Nothing more, nothing less, and nothing nefarious.
So you hold Trump to that standard, but not the democrats or their agencies going after Trump because they want to? Again, this is bigger than Trump. He's one man. The overreaction to him as President has exposed numerous others for what they are more than it has for Trump's personality and ego.


I want them so held accountable. If someone on the right looks into those agencies and finds something wrong then they should be held to account whatever that means. That goes for Biden as well.

No one should be able to get away with anything just because they're in office or the government.

I hope I cleared that up, because there's not much daylight on how we see things like this. I'm more than happy to burn down my side if it means things get better.
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates
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the_batman26
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In reply to GeorgiAg • 10:45a, 6/9/23
AG
He did try to pack the SCOTUS even against his own cabinet's wishes, so viewing him as someone who will do whatever it takes to maintain power? Yes.
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Hill Country Ag
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10:46a, 6/9/23
AG
Marxist revolutionaries get their energy from chaos. Facts and logic and rule of law used only when it supports the cause.
Gig 'Em
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Fenrir
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In reply to No Spin Ag • 10:46a, 6/9/23
What mechanism are conservatives supposed to utilize to accomplish this when the DOJ is overtly partisan? Obviously can't rely on dem voters to vote for decent human beings with morals and ethics.
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Nitro Power
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In reply to GeorgiAg • 10:47a, 6/9/23
AG
GeorgiAg said:
45-70Ag said:
Trumps lawyers have quit the case CNBC is reporting. Not sure what to make of that.
Trump is a terrible client. He refuses to shut his yap. Why would anyone want to defend a person willing to destroy our country rather than turn over some documents?


With ignorant takes like this, you deserve all the ridicule you get plus some
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No Spin Ag
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In reply to Fenrir • 10:55a, 6/9/23
Fenrir said:
What mechanism are conservatives supposed to utilize to accomplish this when the DOJ is overtly partisan? Obviously can't rely on dem voters to vote for decent human beings with morals and ethics.


Start working from the inside by getting jobs there. It's not going to be easy and it's going to take time, but this is another example of from the ground up. The same way it took liberals decades to get things changed because they became part of the institutions they wanted to change is what conservatives need to do.

And the agencies would be that more efficient having both sides working from within.
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates
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fixer
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10:57a, 6/9/23
Deep state gonna deep state.
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Nitro Power
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In reply to No Spin Ag • 10:59a, 6/9/23
AG
No Spin Ag said:
Fenrir said:
What mechanism are conservatives supposed to utilize to accomplish this when the DOJ is overtly partisan? Obviously can't rely on dem voters to vote for decent human beings with morals and ethics.


Start working from the inside by getting jobs there. It's not going to be easy and it's going to take time, but this is another example of from the ground up. The same way it took liberals decades to get things changed because they became part of the institutions they wanted to change is what conservatives need to do.

And the agencies would be that more efficient having both sides working from within.


You don't really believe this do you? Someone as famous and powerful as Trump with vastly more resources than most is being destroyed, but you think others can get in and start making significant change?

It's not about Republicans and Democrats, they are all on the same team, they just make it appear they are "fighting for the American people"
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Fenrir
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10:59a, 6/9/23
That only worked because those in charge at the time weren't attempting to purge people for wrongthink.

It's going to take more than conservatives getting involved. It's going to require leftists to stop being partisan **** stains for at least a few moments.
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fka ftc
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In reply to GeorgiAg • 11:01a, 6/9/23
GeorgiAg said:
45-70Ag said:
Trumps lawyers have quit the case CNBC is reporting. Not sure what to make of that.
Trump is a terrible client. He refuses to shut his yap. Why would anyone want to defend a person willing to destroy our country rather than turn over some documents?


I actually no longer believe you are a lawyer nor have a law degree.

It is quite common to change lawyers for different phases of complex cases. The lawyer who resigned (another one left last week) were there to handle the special counsel and try and negotiate with special counsel to avoid grand jury indictment.

Now he needs to move to lawyers who will make entirely different arguments, likely challenging the constitutional basis of the charges (which law supersedes, Espionage Act or the Presidential Records Act, others). If it goes to actual trial, would expect further changes in his team.

Horses for courses and such. Any lawyer and most business people who have had experience with "teams" of lawyers know this. Yet somehow you do not and you claim to be a lawyer?

Believe that as much as I believe you regret your Biden vote. To be clear, I do not believe you at all, on anything.
"The absence of the word accountability is not the same as wanting no accountability" -unknown

"You can never go wrong by staying silent if there is nothing apt to say" -Walter Isaacson
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aggiehawg
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11:02a, 6/9/23
AG
Quote:
The summons sent to former President Donald Trump and his legal team late Thursday indicates that U.S. District Judge Aileen Cannon will be assigned to oversee his case, at least initially, according to sources briefed on the matter.

Cannon's apparent assignment would add yet another unprecedented wrinkle to a case involving the first federal charges against a former president: Trump appointed Cannon to the federal bench in 2020, meaning that, if Trump is ultimately convicted, she would be responsible for determining the sentence which may include prison time for the man who elevated her to the role.

A federal grand jury voted to indict Trump on at least seven federal charges late Thursday as part of an investigation into his handling of classified documents, sources familiar with the matter told ABC News.

The indictment comes after more than 100 documents with classified markings were found at Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort in August 2022.
LINK

Why have two grand juries looking into this and why bring the indictment in Miami and not DC where the potential jury pool would be hugely partisan against Trump?
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Charpie
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In reply to aggiehawg • 11:04a, 6/9/23
AG
I think you answered your own question.
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Im Gipper
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In reply to aggiehawg • 11:04a, 6/9/23
The alleged crimes occurred in Southern District of Florida?

(I know we have not seen the indictment, that's my best guess why this is in that District)

I'm Gipper
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Im Gipper
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In reply to fka ftc • 11:06a, 6/9/23
For someone that's not a lawyer, he went to a lot of trouble to create a website with his picture on it saying he works for a law firm!

I'm Gipper
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fka ftc
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11:08a, 6/9/23
The brazenness of the DOJ doing this and the timing its something that should be giving more people pause.

For two years we have been told what domestic terrorists white people are, parents are, Christians / Catholics are, MAGA republicans are.

And we are constantly bombarded with Trump persecution's from Bragg, to Crazy Bergdorff Lying *****, to Georgia bumpkins misinterpreting phone calls, now this and other things to come. We are also hit with same day Biden tripling down on child sexual perversion and mutilation and earlier this week the DNC group SPLC labeling mothers as terrorists.

This is being done with purpose. And I am getting that sick feeling the purpose is to goad people on the right into action that the left will plaster morning noon and night that their terrorist accusations are legit.

Keep calm, but ready to fight. The Right and those wanting to save America are hunkered in the underground war rooms whilst the bombing continues. Shelter, plan, collaborate for the opportunity to truly fight is drawing nearer.
"The absence of the word accountability is not the same as wanting no accountability" -unknown

"You can never go wrong by staying silent if there is nothing apt to say" -Walter Isaacson
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the_batman26
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In reply to Im Gipper • 11:08a, 6/9/23
AG
Twitter is full of these types, namely lefty ones. They grift and willfully ignore reality for attention.
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No Spin Ag
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In reply to Nitro Power • 11:09a, 6/9/23
Nitro Power said:
No Spin Ag said:
Fenrir said:
What mechanism are conservatives supposed to utilize to accomplish this when the DOJ is overtly partisan? Obviously can't rely on dem voters to vote for decent human beings with morals and ethics.


Start working from the inside by getting jobs there. It's not going to be easy and it's going to take time, but this is another example of from the ground up. The same way it took liberals decades to get things changed because they became part of the institutions they wanted to change is what conservatives need to do.

And the agencies would be that more efficient having both sides working from within.


You don't really believe this do you? Someone as famous and powerful as Trump with vastly more resources than most is being destroyed, but you think others can get in and start making significant change?

It's not about Republicans and Democrats, they are all on the same team, they just make it appear they are "fighting for the American people"



Trump is one person and nothing more. I said back when he got elected that the best he was going to be able to do was whack a sick at the tree that is the swamp but that at the end of the day the tree would still be there long after he was gone. I wasn't wrong.


But we're many, and working from within, we can do infinitely more than one person, or even one party. But they don't want that, and as long as the masses let tweets and party letters by politicians names dictate how they react to things, well, here we are.


"They" are on the same team. We can change things by working together because only that way will this change. "They", like you say and I agree with, are doing everything they can to keep us apart, because that's how they win.
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates
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fka ftc
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In reply to Im Gipper • 11:09a, 6/9/23
Im Gipper said:
For someone that's not a lawyer, he went to a lot of trouble to create a website with his picture on it saying he works for a law firm!


So did Mandi T'eos girlfriend. Move along.
"The absence of the word accountability is not the same as wanting no accountability" -unknown

"You can never go wrong by staying silent if there is nothing apt to say" -Walter Isaacson
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aggiehawg
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In reply to Im Gipper • 11:09a, 6/9/23
AG
Im Gipper said:
The alleged crimes occurred in Southern District of Florida?

(I know we have not seen the indictment, that's my best guess why this is in that District)
I am not talking about where jurisdiction may lie because it can lie in DC as well.

I am curious why Special Counsel Smith made that choice.
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Rockdoc
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In reply to Im Gipper • 11:09a, 6/9/23
AG
Im Gipper said:
For someone that's not a lawyer, he went to a lot of trouble to create a website with his picture on it saying he works for a law firm!

Well his billable hours must be way way down.
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Im Gipper
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In reply to Rockdoc • 11:10a, 6/9/23
You don't bill for chasing ambulances!

I'm Gipper
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fka ftc
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11:15a, 6/9/23
It's been mentioned on other threads, but Trump has several defenses left to play, including whether he declassified docs (CNN transcript of unknown tape from unknown source that no one has heard aside).

I also heard something new the other day that these documents could have actually been shipped to Mar-a-Lago by the Biden admin. That would be a nice wrinkle. "Hey, we sent you a bunch of stuff and some of it may have had some classified docs, we want it back" to which Trump responds "I think I will have a look through them myself before returning".

Also, the ROOT of this all falls first under the Presidential Records Act. One of the few cases of that Act was settled to provide strong deference to the incumbent POTUS regarding what they can and cannot keep post-Presidency. That process has long been respected and typically takes YEARS to settle out.

Biden NARA plant disregarded these norms and took a civil procedure and turned it into a criminal political hit job at the DIRECTION of WH counsel.

This thing has layers or political witch-hunt using the Executive Branch powers to harm a political opponent. To cheer this on as anything else is simply UNAMERICAN.
"The absence of the word accountability is not the same as wanting no accountability" -unknown

"You can never go wrong by staying silent if there is nothing apt to say" -Walter Isaacson
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Im Gipper
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11:20a, 6/9/23
These lawyers clearly hate Trump!




/sarcasm

I'm Gipper
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LMCane
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In reply to Ags77 • 11:21a, 6/9/23
Ags77 said:
Daddy said:
Rapier108 said:
Daddy said:
This is an act of desperation

There is a heavy war behind the scenes and it shows the ots flipped

And again

Ask yourself

Why particularly if Ron Pools better
Vs Biden. Much

Why are they trying to take him out?

He knows where the bodies are buried
And they know it
1. They want Trump to be the nominee and hope these indictments will get people to vote for Trump in the primary out of a desire for revenge.

2. They will go after DeSantis, or anyone else, if he or she is the nominee.

3. They will take out Trump permanently, one way or the other, if the Democrats win the next election.


Not at all
Does this make anyone not want Trump?

His base gets more fired up

Only the educated elite who are never trumpets are spreading this


In fact you know who's even more Trump now?

Blacks
Hispanics
White working class

Because they understand that the system is rigged against him.



So since being defeated by Joe Biden, in your opinion has Trump by his actions expanded his base or shrunk it ?

We both know and agree his devoted followers aren't leaving him. I agree, that this stuff fires his base up.

I think we both agree that the never trumpers haven't changed their minds, either. In fact, I would say it's solidified their status.

Do you think the remaining people ( independents or moderates) have moved his way in the years following his defeat by the way he has handled it ?
let's not leave out the fact that millenials hate Trump and voted Biden by massive amounts-

so it's four years later now.

how many old people have died that voted Trump,

and how many brand new voters just turning 18 are going to vote for Trump?

in Georgia, Arizona and Pennsylvania?
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aggiehawg
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11:21a, 6/9/23
AG
Quote:
The Department of Justice is preparing to ask a Washington, DC grand jury to indict former president Donald Trump for violating the Espionage Act and for obstruction of justice as soon as Thursday, adding further weight to the legal baggage facing Mr Trump as he campaigns for his party's nomination in next year's presidential election.

The Independent has learned that prosecutors are ready to ask grand jurors to approve an indictment against Mr Trump for violating a portion of the US criminal code known as Section 793, which prohibits "gathering, transmitting or losing" any "information respecting the national defence".

The use of Section 793, which does not make reference to classified information, is understood to be a strategic decision by prosecutors that has been made to short-circuit Mr Trump's ability to claim that he used his authority as president to declassify documents he removed from the White House and kept at his Palm Beach, Florida property long after his term expired on 20 January 2021.

That section of US criminal law is written in a way that could encompass Mr Trump's conduct even if he was authorised to possess the information as president because it states that anyone who "lawfully having possession of, access to, control over, or being entrusted with any document …relating to the national defence," and "willfully communicates, delivers, transmits or causes to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted or attempts to communicate, deliver, transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered or transmitted the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it on demand to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it" can be punished by as many as ten years in prison.
LINK

I remember that Mueller went after Manafort in both DC and Virginia. So is wasting multiple federal court resources is standard now?
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LMCane
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In reply to Im Gipper • 11:22a, 6/9/23
That's not the ways lawyers leave cases because of a sudden change in venue

and this was planned for Miami all along

obviously, like EVERYONE who works for Trump- they can't take it anymore.
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Im Gipper
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In reply to LMCane • 11:23a, 6/9/23
You are trying too hard dude.

I'm Gipper
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fka ftc
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11:28a, 6/9/23
I will try and find the clip, but John Turkey said if Trump actually wins, he will pardon himself. He said that Trump may actually use that as a basis to energize his base / support.

Interesting take but he seemed to now be convinced a POTUS has the constitutional authority to pardon himself. If he happens to be correct, I think we all know who will be the first to use this "privilege" and his last name is way more tied to corruption than "Trump".
"The absence of the word accountability is not the same as wanting no accountability" -unknown

"You can never go wrong by staying silent if there is nothing apt to say" -Walter Isaacson
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