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I feel for you and your family. I have 6 grandkids going to elementary school so it's possible in my neighborhood too. But the cowards that would do this in my neighborhood know it won't be an easy task because there is a sign at the entrance of the school that is is protected by teachers with pistols inside. And longuns outside.

If they get to take away the long guns do you actually think they would stop there?

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I don't know, man. When is the last time a shooter like this made it out alive? I dont think they go in thinking they are going to live. Maybe that sign would make him choose another school...

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Guns are an irrelevancy in America. Outside some niche areas and situations. Stop trying to fix problems that don't exist. Its not the guns, its not the mental health, its not the godlessness, its NOTHING.

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Except it did just happen right around the corner. It's not a problem until you are actually faced with it.

SteveA said:

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I want to reduce mass shootings, especially in schools. Not exactly a gang banger forte.

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Fund more police officers in schools.

I propose 1 officer per a fixed number of students.

Say, minimum of 1 officer per school, and 1 officer per 1,000 students.

Why are liberals against this? They hate police, but when there is a mass shouting who is relied upon to stop them?

We need stronger law enforcement and we need more incarceration to keep dangerous violent drags on society from harming innocent and productive members of society.

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A handgun is the most effective killing tool wielded with one hand. Is this really your argument? Way to think it thru, pal

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I'm not debating that. But it's not the most effective tool at range and with multiple targets. I was pointing out the advantages of what was called a 'cosmetic' feature, not debating the effectiveness of single handed shooting. And, I think you knew that, btu you just wanted to be condescending with your little, 'pal' statement.

I'm really not trying to be adversarial as you guys are. And I don't mean to offend. But I do think something needs to be done, but even a ban won't get the guns out of the hands of dip****s, so who knows what..

DannyDuberstein said:

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SteveA said:

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BaitShack said:
You lost me at pistol grip.

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The_Desert_Fox said:

When you see someone mention cosmetic firearm features as relating to lethality, you can pour their firearms knowledge into a tiny thimble. And their opinions about guns should be immediately disregarded.

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100% this

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A grip is a bit more than a cosmetic feature. Maybe if you had the knowledge you claim to, instead of the basic talking points, you would know what those advantages are. Hell, in one of the school shootings, the shooter wielded the rifle with a single hand. Can you do that effectively with a traditional stock? Regardless if you want to discard my post because a tiny part, semi auto and high capacity make for a more lethal combo in these circumstances than a handgun.

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A handgun is the most effective killing tool wielded with one hand. Is this really your argument? Way to think it thru, pal

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But what about the hammers? You forgot the hammers!

SteveA said:

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BaitShack said:
You lost me at pistol grip.

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The_Desert_Fox said:

When you see someone mention cosmetic firearm features as relating to lethality, you can pour their firearms knowledge into a tiny thimble. And their opinions about guns should be immediately disregarded.

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100% this

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A grip is a bit more than a cosmetic feature. Maybe if you had the knowledge you claim to, instead of the basic talking points, you would know what those advantages are. Hell, in one of the school shootings, the shooter wielded the rifle with a single hand. Can you do that effectively with a traditional stock? Regardless if you want to discard my post because a tiny part, semi auto and high capacity make for a more lethal combo in these circumstances than a handgun.

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There is virtually zero lethality difference between an AR and mini-14 ranch rifle.

The things that actually matter are (1) semiauto, (2) magazine fed, and (3) centerfire rifle.

Although magazine fed semi auto shotties would be very effective too.

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Whoever this Steve guy is, is it possible he's a troll because to continue to sound off while being so totally uninformed about firearms is something only mentally handicapped people would do.

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I forgot what kind of clueless responses you get when you aren't in line with the majority in this echo chamber. My bad.

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There is virtually zero lethality difference between an AR and mini-14 ranch rifle.

The things that actually matter are (1) semiauto, (2) magazine fed, and (3) centerfire rifle.

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I agree with you.

SteveA said:

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True or False:

more people murdered by handguns than semi auto rifles?

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I would imagine true.
Now, true or false. More mass shootings are done with semi auto rifles than handguns.

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False

Bronco6G said:

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Lesotho said:

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TequilaMockingbird said:

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When you talk about banning AR-15 style "assault" weapons, I always go back to the same thought. Just keeping the discussion about guns, what would prevent someone from doing the same thing with a Winchester 30-30, or a 9mm pistol, or a shotgun?

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Casualty count would be lower. I don't support semi automatic rifle ban but I do support making them more difficult to acquire. Yes criminals will find a way, but there are a lot of school shooters that walked in and purchased legally and quickly.

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They were all planned out, none of those were spontaneous where they went from the gun store to the crime scene. So you just want to give them more time to plan things out better while they wait?

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Sandy Hook that the Dems reference all the time, the mental ill kid's mother purchased the long gun for him.
She knew he was mentally ill and still bought the gun. She was a school teacher at the school where all the carnage happened. She might be mentally I'll also.

SteveA said:

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There is virtually zero lethality difference between an AR and mini-14 ranch rifle.

The things that actually matter are (1) semiauto, (2) magazine fed, and (3) centerfire rifle.

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I agree with you.

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Then stop talking about cosmetic features. So you sound like an ignorant lib when you do that.

No flash hiders, vert grip, stock or grip arguments.

fka ftc said:

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When this became standard issue for every police officer down to small town America Barney Fife, then the citizens went forth and armed themselves in a similar manner.

Someone mentioned on a previous thread that if you want to start a conversation on what guns should be legal, it should start with what the LEOs are allowed to possess.

Edited to add: I included a sample pic, so if you want to comment on what the actual officer has in the pic fine, but the point is many local cops dress up in stormin fallujah gear to pick up someone with o/s warrants for parking tickets.

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This is not "standard issue" for every police officer. Not even close. Do you see many patrol officers doing their routine jobs walking around with a rifle? Maybe at special events where there's intel of something possibly going down.
Now officers have been issued more tactical gear at their disposal in the last 10-15 years. Might have something to do with 5 officers being killed in downtown Dallas. Or officers being gunned down in Baton Rouge. Or officer routinely being outgunned the last decade plus.

45-70Ag said:

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Whoever this Steve guy is, is it possible he's a troll because to continue to sound off while being so totally uninformed about firearms is something only mentally handicapped people would do.

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Definitely shouldn't be allowed to own a gun!

The_Desert_Fox said:

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SteveA said:

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There is virtually zero lethality difference between an AR and mini-14 ranch rifle.

The things that actually matter are (1) semiauto, (2) magazine fed, and (3) centerfire rifle.

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I agree with you.

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Then stop talking about cosmetic features. So you sound like an ignorant lib when you do that.

No flash hiders, vert grip, stock or grip arguments.

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Hint: He likely wants the mini 14 gone, also.

DannyDuberstein said:

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The_Desert_Fox said:

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SteveA said:

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There is virtually zero lethality difference between an AR and mini-14 ranch rifle.

The things that actually matter are (1) semiauto, (2) magazine fed, and (3) centerfire rifle.

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I agree with you.

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Then stop talking about cosmetic features. So you sound like an ignorant lib when you do that.

No flash hiders, vert grip, stock or grip arguments.

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I'm gonna throw in inferring that more mass shootings were done with rifles vs hanguns to this "things to avoid if you don't want to sound like an ignorant lib" list

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That depends. Is he using the liberal definition of mass shootings? Then he is wrong it is handguns.

If he means actual mass shootings, not the ones used for political expediency, semiauto rifles are used fairly frequently.

I don't think this issue will be solved. Dems have no interest in solving it; they only have interest in more power and control.
I think the cause is complex and nuanced. There are multiple reasons these shootings are happening and would take an actual honest, non-politically correct discussion to actually do something.
Most Americans get their news from memes and tik tok so I have little faith anyone is down for an actual real discussion of solutions.

He's probably googling that right now. Wait until he discovers you can get them with a black synthetic stock.

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I'm gonna throw in inferring that more mass shootings were done with rifles vs hanguns to this "things to avoid if you don't want to sound like an ignorant lib" list

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****, I hate sounding like an ignorant lib.

We can stick to the magazine fed, semi auto argument and stay on course. And I guess I should be more selective than to just say, 'mass shootings'.

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BaitShack said:
You lost me at pistol grip.

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The_Desert_Fox said:

When you see someone mention cosmetic firearm features as relating to lethality, you can pour their firearms knowledge into a tiny thimble. And their opinions about guns should be immediately disregarded.

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100% this

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A grip is a bit more than a cosmetic feature. Maybe if you had the knowledge you claim to, instead of the basic talking points, you would know what those advantages are. Hell, in one of the school shootings, the shooter wielded the rifle with a single hand. Can you do that effectively with a traditional stock? Regardless if you want to discard my post because a tiny part, semi auto and high capacity make for a more lethal combo in these circumstances than a handgun.

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https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FiringOneHanded

Heck, Ive even seen Arnold shoot a shotgun one handed and reload it one handed whilst driving a motorcycle.

BigRobSA said:

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SteveA said:

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Will our resident gun control crowd please explain what gun laws would have stopped the more recent mass shootings?

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A ban on semi auto rifles and large capacity magazines would be a start. I'm not a gun control guy, but this happened about 4 miles from my house, and my kids were up there at the mall, so I'm a bit biased at the moment. This assault would be much more difficult for a guy armed with a 9mm handgun. The AR style weapons, or any semi auto with a pistol grip makes it too easy. Now, how do you get those out of the hands of people that do this stuff? I have no idea. Not a politician and don't claim to have answers. Obviously laws don't matter or they wouldn't be shooting up malls. But I don't think more guns is the answer. I don't think there is a need for these types of guns to be as available as they are. My opinion. Keeping it civil.

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That's why pistols are almost never used.




Oh....wait, they're the #1 weapon of choice in crimes. Nevermind.


Glad your kids are safe, but don't let emotions cloud your judgement.

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Could you as easily kill 9 plus with a handgun? There's a reason why perps prefer using a semi-auto rifle. You'd still kill multiple people, but not as many.

You can't stop shootings, but it's hard to not admit that rifles are more accurate and deadlier than a handgun. Why did those cops in Nashville push the guys with ARs to the front instead of a guy armed with a service pistol?

Sorry, auto-correct got me

fka ftc said:

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SteveA said:

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BaitShack said:
You lost me at pistol grip.

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The_Desert_Fox said:

When you see someone mention cosmetic firearm features as relating to lethality, you can pour their firearms knowledge into a tiny thimble. And their opinions about guns should be immediately disregarded.

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100% this

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A grip is a bit more than a cosmetic feature. Maybe if you had the knowledge you claim to, instead of the basic talking points, you would know what those advantages are. Hell, in one of the school shootings, the shooter wielded the rifle with a single hand. Can you do that effectively with a traditional stock? Regardless if you want to discard my post because a tiny part, semi auto and high capacity make for a more lethal combo in these circumstances than a handgun.

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https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FiringOneHanded

Heck, Ive even seen Arnold shoot a shotgun one handed and reload it one handed whilst driving a motorcycle.

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If he had a pistol grip, then T2 is over 30 minutes into the movie

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If he had a pistol grip, then T2 is over 30 minutes into the movie

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Come on dude. Everyone knows that the terminator has a built in targeting system and robot kung fu grip which make a pistol grip unnecessary.

rgag12 said:

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BigRobSA said:

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SteveA said:

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Will our resident gun control crowd please explain what gun laws would have stopped the more recent mass shootings?

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A ban on semi auto rifles and large capacity magazines would be a start. I'm not a gun control guy, but this happened about 4 miles from my house, and my kids were up there at the mall, so I'm a bit biased at the moment. This assault would be much more difficult for a guy armed with a 9mm handgun. The AR style weapons, or any semi auto with a pistol grip makes it too easy. Now, how do you get those out of the hands of people that do this stuff? I have no idea. Not a politician and don't claim to have answers. Obviously laws don't matter or they wouldn't be shooting up malls. But I don't think more guns is the answer. I don't think there is a need for these types of guns to be as available as they are. My opinion. Keeping it civil.

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That's why pistols are almost never used.




Oh....wait, they're the #1 weapon of choice in crimes. Nevermind.


Glad your kids are safe, but don't let emotions cloud your judgement.

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Could you as easily kill 9 plus with a handgun? There's a reason why perps prefer using a semi-auto rifle. You'd still kill multiple people, but not as many.

You can't stop shootings, but it's hard to not admit that rifles are more accurate and deadlier than a handgun. Why did those cops in Nashville push the guys with ARs to the front instead of a guy armed with a service pistol?

Sorry, auto-correct got me

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Nobody is denying that it buys you range, and there is little doubt that the visibility and appearance of the platform adds a measure of terror to any situation in which it is used. The damn things can also be very loud.. That second part is absolutely true and illustrated in this very thread as well as "gun control" measures involving cosmetic features.

I have a lot of experience with AR-15s and civilians and cops don't need them. If they weren't effective weapons for engaging targets, then the military would still be using bolt action rifles. AR-15s have a high cap mags that allow you to engage many targets quickly by simply pointing and aiming quickly and squeezing the trigger as fast you can while doing it.

And the Founding Fathers disagreed with you. Fact.

DannyDuberstein said:

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I also live within 4-5 miles and realize that there are 500 million guns in the US already. Thinking these laws would protect is just wishful thinking with zero basis in reality. Law abiders will disarm themselves and become fish in a barrel for sick ****s like this guy

Chicago is the wild west in spite of what is essentially and outright ban of all guns

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And don't forget who is waiting in the wings desperately wanting us to disarm.