Can someone ask the reps where their kids go to school.

Those that voted "present", do their kids go to private schools?

aezmvp said:

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Justin Hollands office doesn't appreciate pointed questions. They said that student success wasn't a measure of accountability, charter schools were good enough to help the kids in disaster districts like Dallas and Houston ISDs and that seeing the receipts or the library lists were a sign of accountability in the ISDs.

The staff was big on saying how conservative he was for wanting kids to take the STAAR tests.

What a joke. Also his staff could use a few pointers in how to talk to constituents. I'll be looking for a real primary opponent.

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I live in Lucas. Holland represents towns close to me. Majority of his constituents are very happy with the public schools in the area. Rockwall ISD, Wylie ISD, and the area of Plano ISD he represents all have excellent schools.

ETA- I've heard him speak about vouchers. He doesn't like that there would be no state oversight of the private schools getting the voucher money. No state testing to measure student success, etc. I guarantee you that he has gotten an earful from his constituents. People around here are against vouchers.

How about we kill Robinhood? That will put money back in the "wealthy" school districts who fund the "non-wealthy" districts. Then let the market forces work.

Great but why should that stop us from pushing for the better option? There are also private schools in and around his district that perform better than the public schools in those areas as well.

The schools are rotting from within, but God forbid we empower parents to do something about it because of how it may impact football.

aezmvp said:

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Great but why should that stop us from pushing for the better option? There are also private schools in and around his district that perform better than the public schools in those areas as well.

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Which private schools in and around his district are you referring to? I live in this area and unless you're driving more than 30 miles to the elite Dallas private schools, there are no private schools in this area better than the public schools in Rockwall ISD, Wylie ISD, and the schools in the small portion of Plano ISD he represents.

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I've heard him speak about vouchers. He doesn't like that there would be no state oversight of the private schools getting the voucher money. No state testing to measure student success, etc.

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Government oversight is working so well! <rolls eyes>

The party that claims to be about freedoms and personal responsibility sure has a hard time with actions that support the talk.

Sounds like a majority of people, and their representatives like the system as is.

So many Charlie Browns being surprised when Lucy moved the school choice football, like she has in the Texas legislature numerous times in the past. Choice is a powerful part of pre-election speech making, but it becomes mute on voting day.

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• School choice would further widen the education divide. Poor kids would really have no choice due economic issues. They will inevitably all be lumped into "the" school(s).
• Being able to pick and choose students would lead back to #1. Schools will end up being top-heavy on performance, creating something akin to colleges. Again, sounds somewhat great. I mean it creates incentives right? Perform well in 5th grade, and you might get into that prestigious middle school. That's a lot of burden and stress on young children. And what about ESL kids who struggle early with reading/writing comprehension?
• What about kids who require special needs? Schools who get to pick and choose will not accept students with needs. This is already the case with charter schools. Again, so these students will be lumped into the "bad" school and not get the service they need.

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According to this logic, we shouldn't have choices when it comes to housing, cars, food, clothing, hobbies or anything else.

sam callahan said:

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I've heard him speak about vouchers. He doesn't like that there would be no state oversight of the private schools getting the voucher money. No state testing to measure student success, etc.

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Government oversight is working so well! <rolls eyes>

The party that claims to be about freedoms and personal responsibility sure has a hard time with actions that support the talk.

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I believe parents have the freedom to choose to have their kid be homeschooled, attend public school, or attend private school. I also believe that if they choose to homeschool or send their kid to private school that it is their personal responsibility to purchase the homeschool curriculum or pay the private school tuition.

Prestonwood, JP II, TCA, FBA and HCA all have better average SAT or ACT scores (or both) than their surrounding districts. I'm not talking about St Marks, Cistercian, Hockaday, Ursuiline, Jesuit or Greenhill but the next couple of ranks are better in concrete measures.

Old May Banker said:

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Explain how the long term debts - that voters in multiple districts have approved - are repaid when money is portable? Do those banks / bond holders just get told "better luck next time"?

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Since when are debts immune from policy risk? If you buy a bond from a pharmaceutical company whose main product is found to be a health risk, do we keep that drug legal for purposes of making sure the debtholders are kept whole?

All financial instruments are subject to some form of political risk. Why are ISD bonds an exception?

Keep telling yourself that a system that extracts more tax money from its citizens because they believe the government can spend it better than the people can is about freedom and responsibility.

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But, it would cause a bunch of crappy for profit private schools to open up with unqualified staff and lackluster curriculums to take advantage of naive parents.

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Translation: shut up plebes. we are from the government and we can make better decisions fo your kids than you.

aezmvp said:

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Prestonwood, JP II, TCA, FBA and HCA all have better average SAT or ACT scores (or both) than their surrounding districts. I'm not talking about St Marks, Cistercian, Hockaday, Ursuiline, Jesuit or Greenhill but the next couple of ranks are better in concrete measures.

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Prestonwood, JP II, TCA, FBA aren't in Holland's district and aren't what I would consider being close by. They would be at least a 30-40 minute commute there. Longer for those who live in Rockwall. And if the HCA you listed is the one in Rockwall, give me a break….

The schools you listed are filled with kids from higher income families, mostly two parent families, parents with at least a college degree. Many with advanced degrees. Most private school kids pay for private classes and tutors to get them ready for ACT and SAT tests. If Prestonwood, JP II, TCA, FBA taught kids from the same demographics as public schools there would be no difference in SAT or ACT scores.

I agree that the Rockwall Schools are great. I doubt they would lose many students. If all school districts were like Rockwall, we wouldn't be having this discussion. What about the families in the other schools?

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The schools you listed are filled with kids from higher income families, mostly two parent families, parents with at least a college degree. Many with advanced degrees.

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That's kind of the whole point. School choice would open up more opportunities for more families.

Kronda Thimesch is my rep. She sent out a survey with lots of questions about school choice before she voted.

Voting present was so chicken sh**. Apparently her polling indicated that was the way. Very Clintonesque

She's my rep too.

She cut her teeth and basically ran on being a LISD teacher for 20 years. She's the only rep that has ever knocked on my door and introduced herself, and she earned my vote with that conversation.

But honestly I'm not surprised by her vote as she pulled a lot of votes from conservative teachers.

You realize that his district includes South Collin County and used to wrap all the way around to Frisco right?

If you're in core Rockwall, FBA and HCA are right there. And that's great that our ISD has decent scores. But when they go from two to 4 high schools in a few years will they be as good? What about other districts? It's almost as bad as saying my kids go to Hyer elementary and then Highland Park so no one else in the State should have this.

12thMan9 said:

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How about we kill Robinhood? That will put money back in the "wealthy" school districts who fund the "non-wealthy" districts. Then let the market forces work.

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Amen

sam callahan said:

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Quote:

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• School choice would further widen the education divide. Poor kids would really have no choice due economic issues. They will inevitably all be lumped into "the" school(s).
• Being able to pick and choose students would lead back to #1. Schools will end up being top-heavy on performance, creating something akin to colleges. Again, sounds somewhat great. I mean it creates incentives right? Perform well in 5th grade, and you might get into that prestigious middle school. That's a lot of burden and stress on young children. And what about ESL kids who struggle early with reading/writing comprehension?
• What about kids who require special needs? Schools who get to pick and choose will not accept students with needs. This is already the case with charter schools. Again, so these students will be lumped into the "bad" school and not get the service they need.

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According to this logic, we shouldn't have choices when it comes to housing, cars, food, clothing, hobbies or anything else.

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Based on this, and some of your other posts, whatever education system you came from clearly failed you. So that is probably a strike against my position.

They aren't immune from risk except the taxpayers from across the state will pick up those tabs. I'm sure that's also a deal that'll make everyone happy.

murphyag said:

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aggiebrad94 said:

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murphyag said:

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LSCSN said:

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both BCS reps voted no. and i know at least one of them sent their kid to private school. funny stuff.

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I send one of my kids private school and pay over $30,000 a year to do so. My other kid is in our local public school. That is my personal choice as a parent. I don't believe in school vouchers.

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My kid goes to private. If this passes, I'd like your voucher since don't believe in them.

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I would refuse the money or donate it to charity. You made the personal choice to send your kid to private school. Not my job to fund it. Just as I don't expect anyone else to fund a personal choice I made.

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There's nothing more redistributive about vouchers than what's already in place. To the extent you're subsidizing other people's children's education, you would continue to do so. To the extent people's children's education are being subsidized, they would continue to be at the same rate. What's changing is the money isn't automatically funneled into the pockets of govt. school administrators and teacher's unions.

More charitable donations is another really good argument in support of school vouchers, don't you think?

You're essentially saying you'll gladly fund a compulsory system wherein children are made to get whatever quality education the govt determines is sufficient or necessary. But I'll be damned if I'm gonna pat the same amount to fund a system in which parents set the standard for their child's education. And in which parents are actually empowered to hold educators accountable.

I support parent's rights, including if they want to take their kid to a drag show. The government shouldn't be parenting my kids ever.

The Catalyst said:

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Have you ever lived in a rural area?

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I did and graduated from a rural HS. I think the issues are rural districts are afraid of losing enrollment, losing jobs in the schools, and eventually losing their towns. If you are rural east of IH35 it would be easier to go to school in the next town over. Some of this could also be driven by athletics. If you live west of IH35 it would probably not be as feasible.

DallasAg03 said:

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I support parent's rights, including if they want to take their kid to a drag show. The government shouldn't be parenting my kids ever.

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Totally! If parents want to sexually abuse their own children, it should definitely be allowed.

Bird Poo said:

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IndividualFreedom said:

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https://www.thecentersquare.com/texas/article_705ee2da-d577-11ed-9066-5b50f0967ff3.html

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According to the recorded vote, the 24 Republicans who voted with Democrats against funding ESAs were Reps. Steve Allison, Trent Ashby, Ernest Bailes, Keith Bell, DeWayne Burns, Travis Clardy, Drew Darby, Charlie Geren, Justina Holland, Kyle Kacal, Ken King, John Kuempel, Stan Lambert, Brooks Landgraf, Andy Murr, Angelia Orr, Four Price, John Raney, Glenn Rogers, Hugh Shine, Reggie Smith, David Spiller and Gary VanDeaver.

The 10 Republicans who voted "present," were Reps. Brad Buckley, David Cook, Mano DeAyala, Frederick Frazier, Cody Harris, John Lujan, Shelby Slawson, Kronda Thimesch, and Ed Thompson.

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I don't mean to cause more work for you, but could you list their districts as well?

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People are more likely to know their Congress person than their district I suppose putting down the counties they represent would be best

Bob Lee said:

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DallasAg03 said:

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I support parent's rights, including if they want to take their kid to a drag show. The government shouldn't be parenting my kids ever.

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Totally! If parents want to sexually abuse their own children, it should definitely be allowed.

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Should we ban children from church? A lot of abuse there. Taking away rights is a slippery slope. At first you agree b/c it fits your views, but just wait

Old May Banker said:

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And FTR, I'm 100% in favor of school choice... but there are lots of tentacles to that decision that'll have to be fugued out. What happens to long term debts that districts have, that are based on those dollars that become "portable?"

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They made their bed, let them lay in it.

SociallyConditionedAg said:

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Old May Banker said:

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And FTR, I'm 100% in favor of school choice... but there are lots of tentacles to that decision that'll have to be fugued out. What happens to long term debts that districts have, that are based on those dollars that become "portable?"

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They made their bed, let them lay in it.

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lol... not the way it works. You - and every other Texas property owner - will be responsible for those debts.

TAMU1990 said:

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The Catalyst said:

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Have you ever lived in a rural area?

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I did and graduated from a rural HS. I think the issues are rural districts are afraid of losing enrollment, losing jobs in the schools, and eventually losing their towns. If you are rural east of IH35 it would be easier to go to school in the next town over. Some of this could also be driven by athletics. If you live west of IH35 it would probably not be as feasible.

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What rural districts are against it? I'm in Felon's district and it passed by 90%. His 3 counties are very rural. Orange County doesn't even have a hospital.

Old May Banker said:

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SociallyConditionedAg said:

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Old May Banker said:

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And FTR, I'm 100% in favor of school choice... but there are lots of tentacles to that decision that'll have to be fugued out. What happens to long term debts that districts have, that are based on those dollars that become "portable?"

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They made their bed, let them lay in it.

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lol... not the way it works. You - and every other Texas property owner - will be responsible for those debts.

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I've never voted for one of their wasteful bonds. I don't care what happens to the debt they want to tie to me.

Your voting has nothing to do with it...

Which is why I'll remain in the camp for semi local control.

SociallyConditionedAg said:

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Old May Banker said:

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SociallyConditionedAg said:

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Old May Banker said:

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And FTR, I'm 100% in favor of school choice... but there are lots of tentacles to that decision that'll have to be fugued out. What happens to long term debts that districts have, that are based on those dollars that become "portable?"

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They made their bed, let them lay in it.

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lol... not the way it works. You - and every other Texas property owner - will be responsible for those debts.

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I've never voted for one of their wasteful bonds. I don't care what happens to the debt they want to tie to me.

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So in your version of a democracy, any vote you don't agree with, doesn't exist?