Russia/Ukraine from Another Perspective (Relaunch Part Deux)

531,151 Views | 9447 Replies | Last: 12 hrs ago by nortex97
nortex97
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The hilarity parade that is news from UFA/officials/state media:




Tuberville calls out the Biden Harris American tax payer cash grift plans for 'Ukraine,' with zero strategic plan:
https://x.com/mylordbebo/status/1848048480033669362'

Yep.

I read that Moldovans shockingly voted against joining the pro-War/EU against Russia, though the vote is very tight. Will see if they used fraudulent machines or will be subjugated anyway. Kiev thugs injured a UOC (pro-Russian) archbishop while raiding a cathedral in central 'Ukraine.' Kamala Harris war ticket campaign advisor Navalny (his daughter) has pledged to return to Russia as a presidential candidate.
Teslag
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In the last 7 months Ukraine actually invaded Russia proper and took 500 square miles. So ya, a lot has changed since that May of 2024 map…

And in those zoomed in areas the tiny dark red specs didn't get much bigger, if at all.
Teslag
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Always read a Nortex link. The article image clip (because Russian milbloggers purposely avoid posting the actual source link) is from 6 months ago, before Ukraine had even received a single F16 and passage of the latest aid package .

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/04/03/f-16-fighter-jets-not-relevant-ukraine-military-officer/

nortex97
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To anyone actually interested Suriyak maps on google are actually probably the best source I have found for updates. I believe Rybar was providing good updates but they have moved to Telegram (I am not gonna learn that ecosystem) after the US DoJ came after them for sharing information Biden-Harris don't want Americans to see. Ayden does the maps for Kalibrated and his are pretty good too but imho a bit less detailed;



Zhaluzhny has long been the top bet to replace Saint Zelensky 'when it is time.' Now he is making conciliatory gestures in London:


DPA is ok, if a little too tedious for me…
Ags4DaWin
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Grapes said:

Ags4DaWin said:

Russia is more than willing to just flip over the table and unleash their nuclear arsenal if they feel like they are being bullied to the point that they are going to lose.

They more than most countries are infantile enough enough to just say screw it....everyone loses.


there is zero supporting w evidence for your opinion.





The evidence, when it comes will be in the form of nuclear war. I hope you never get the evidence you are asking for.
Ags4DaWin
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J. Walter Weatherman said:

Ags4DaWin said:

We have gone over this ad nauseum.

Continuously moving NATO east against the handshake agreement was the other big part of the red line.

U want escalation move NATO and the potential to put missiles on Russia's doorstep into Ukraine.

Keep voting for and rooting for WW3 policies.

I am sure Russia will just allow this and not respond at all because they are so willing to to just roll over and take it.


Russia doesn't get to "allow" an independent country to do anything. If Ukraine wants to join NATO to help prevent Russia from attacking them again and NATO is willing to accept them then that's what will happen.

Ahhh but the US gets to dictate whether Cuba puts nuclear missiles on its island.

So SOME countries get more autonomy than others. I get it.

And the US doesn't get to decide when/Russia will respond with nuclear missiles.

Keep pushing that clock closer to WW3.....real smart
Ags4DaWin
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Ag with kids said:

Ags4DaWin said:

J. Walter Weatherman said:

OPAG said:

Teslag said:

NATO membership ends this war and brings lasting peace to that country
Nonsense!

So, Russia is just going to back away and leave what they have taken and hold because Whang, the US decided to bring Ukraine into NATO, in back room manuever by a lame duck admin?! Yea, sure, OK. Uh Huh.

Geez!!


Russia won't attack a NATO country because they would immediately be wiped out. The only way forward for anyone who actually claims to want peace is for what's left of Ukraine to join NATO.
Russia has said this is a Red line multiple times.

The repeated threats to put NATO in Ukraine and revoke Russia's access to Ukrainian ports was one of the main instigators of this in the first place.

So I am sure that following through on those threats will deescalate the situation.
It is NOT putting NATO in Ukraine.

It IS putting Ukraine in NATO.

NATO is a DEFENSIVE alliance.

Amazingly, it was formed to prevent RUSSIA from invading its members. Which Russia did to lots of countries that quickly joined after the USSR collapsed.

Ukraine wants to get into it now to prevent Russia from continuing to invade them.

I think there might be some evidence that Russia wants to invade Ukraine.


NATO's public persona is that it is a defensive alliance.

Funny how NATO countries seem to band together to invade **** whenever they want though.

NATO gives specifically US troops access to bases on Russia's doorstep.

Look up how many NATO bases were used as staging points for various US military actions in Europe and overseas.

They are one and the same to Russia and with good reason.
Teslag
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For example, let's look at this morning's posted map.

Russian milblogger map

Quote:



And this is how it looks overall highlighted in yellow



Can you still not see it? I'll zoom in further.



And further.



And even further. Where you can see that it's only 16 miles from Adviika, a place Russia first tried to assault a year ago last October.



There's a reason Russian milbloggers use zoomed in maps. And it's not for detail...
J. Walter Weatherman
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Ags4DaWin said:

J. Walter Weatherman said:

Ags4DaWin said:

We have gone over this ad nauseum.

Continuously moving NATO east against the handshake agreement was the other big part of the red line.

U want escalation move NATO and the potential to put missiles on Russia's doorstep into Ukraine.

Keep voting for and rooting for WW3 policies.

I am sure Russia will just allow this and not respond at all because they are so willing to to just roll over and take it.


Russia doesn't get to "allow" an independent country to do anything. If Ukraine wants to join NATO to help prevent Russia from attacking them again and NATO is willing to accept them then that's what will happen.

Ahhh but the US gets to dictate whether Cuba puts buckear missiles on its island.

So SOME countries get more autonomy than others. I get it.

And the US doesn't get to decide when/Russia will respond with nuclear missiles.

Keep pushing that clock closer to WW3.....real smart


The only person attempting to push a clock closer to WW3 is Putin. He started the war when he rolled over Ukraine's borders and can end it whenever he decides. So strange how the "other perspectives" continue to ignore that fact while also taking every opportunity to denigrate the country they live in.

And we didn't invade Cuba for the purpose of permanent occupation when Russia decided to put missiles there while we were in the middle of the Cold War. We are also not putting US controlled nuclear missiles in Ukraine even if they do join NATO. And if they do eventually join NATO, the only way NATO gets involved is if Russia invades again. Besides being 50 years apart, the situations are massively different.
nortex97
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Quote:

He started the war when he rolled over Ukraine's borders and can end it whenever he decides.
Not worth the longer debate but this is historically wrong, again. He had to do something, per Biden, at that point to protect Russian peoples being shelled by Kiev forces within what at the time was a civil war between Donetsk Peoples Republic folks and the Maidan nazi elements, after Nuland's coup. No matter how many times pro- Kiev folks repeat this trope, it's simply misinformed and wrong.

Caution, graphic:


Link:
Quote:

The armed conflict in Eastern Ukraine started in 2014. Between then and early 2022, it had already killed over 14,000 people. Over the course of eight years, Ukrainian government forces fought Russian-backed separatists for control over much of the two heavily industrialised regions of Donetsk and Luhansk, also known as Donbas. Fierce battles in 2014-2015 ended with one third of the regions' territory, its most urbanised part, occupied by two Russian proxy statelets, the self-described Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics. Between September 2014 and February 2015, Russia, Ukraine, France and Germany signed several iterations of the so-called Minsk agreements, which eventually stopped the forward movement of troops and reduced fighting significantly. But the agreements were never implemented, and the fighting transformed into a trench war, with roughly 75,000 troops facing off along a 420-km-long front line cutting through densely populated areas. The war ruined the area's economy and heavy industries, forced millions to relocate and turned the conflict zone into one of the world's most mine-contaminated areas.
Neither side really has their hands clean, at all, but there's a whole separate discussion I think which lays the blame entirely on Putin. We should just get out of it as per above posts we really are safer if the Russians wind up winning/think they are winning, imho. Not our problem to police it, nor fund the rebuilding.
AtticusMatlock
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This is an interesting gem I found looking for election data. Seems like it was common knowledge that Putin would eventually invade Ukraine. The military geostrategic aims were apparent way back then.

Ags4DaWin
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Would be interested to see ur reply to Notex's post.

Or whether all u have is talking points.
J. Walter Weatherman
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Ags4DaWin said:

Would be interested to see ur reply to Notex's post.

Or whether all u have is talking points.


Ukraine was fighting Russian installed separatists. So all that's really in doubt is when Putin officially invaded a country that never attacked them - either in 2014 or when they crossed the borders trying to take all of Ukraine in 2022.

Either way, still 100% Putin's responsibility and 100% of the blame for this is on Putin since he can stop it whenever he wants.
Ag with kids
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Tanker123 said:

The N Koreans will face winter conditions and poor Russian logistics support. Wait until they are treated like cannon fodder and morale will go down south.

Some military analysts are claiming US cluster munitions are taking a significant toll on the Russian soldiers. Keep feeding them cluster munitions if true.
To be fair. They probably think what they've got is preferable to living in NK.
You can turn off signatures, btw
nortex97
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Quote:

The only person attempting to push a clock closer to WW3 is Putin. He started the war when he rolled over Ukraine's borders and can end it whenever he decides. So strange how the "other perspectives" continue to ignore that fact while also taking every opportunity to denigrate the country they live in.
I think your first point is patently false. Zelensky wants nukes and long range strikes at Russian population centers and nuclear power plants to prevent his regime's collapse. The war didn't start with the SMO.

Ag with kids
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PlaneCrashGuy said:

Typos. See edit.
So, 5 months, not 7.
You can turn off signatures, btw
Ag with kids
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Ags4DaWin said:

Ag with kids said:

Ags4DaWin said:

J. Walter Weatherman said:

OPAG said:

Teslag said:

NATO membership ends this war and brings lasting peace to that country
Nonsense!

So, Russia is just going to back away and leave what they have taken and hold because Whang, the US decided to bring Ukraine into NATO, in back room manuever by a lame duck admin?! Yea, sure, OK. Uh Huh.

Geez!!


Russia won't attack a NATO country because they would immediately be wiped out. The only way forward for anyone who actually claims to want peace is for what's left of Ukraine to join NATO.
Russia has said this is a Red line multiple times.

The repeated threats to put NATO in Ukraine and revoke Russia's access to Ukrainian ports was one of the main instigators of this in the first place.

So I am sure that following through on those threats will deescalate the situation.
It is NOT putting NATO in Ukraine.

It IS putting Ukraine in NATO.

NATO is a DEFENSIVE alliance.

Amazingly, it was formed to prevent RUSSIA from invading its members. Which Russia did to lots of countries that quickly joined after the USSR collapsed.

Ukraine wants to get into it now to prevent Russia from continuing to invade them.

I think there might be some evidence that Russia wants to invade Ukraine.


NATO's public persona is that it is a defensive alliance.

Funny how NATO countries seem to band together to invade **** whenever they want though.

NATO gives specifically US troops access to bases on Russia's doorstep.

Look up how many NATO bases were used as staging points for various US military actions in Europe and overseas.

They are one and the same to Russia and with good reason.
What countries has NATO invaded and when?

Here...I'll spot you a link.
You can turn off signatures, btw
J. Walter Weatherman
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nortex97 said:

Quote:

The only person attempting to push a clock closer to WW3 is Putin. He started the war when he rolled over Ukraine's borders and can end it whenever he decides. So strange how the "other perspectives" continue to ignore that fact while also taking every opportunity to denigrate the country they live in.
I think your first point is patently false. Zelensky wants nukes and long range strikes at Russian population centers and nuclear power plants to prevent his regime's collapse. The war didn't start with the SMO.




Not surprising his comments have been taken out of context. He wants NATO because it guarantees peace for Ukraine, not nukes.

https://www.politico.eu/article/nato-nukes-volodymyr-zelenskyy-war-ukraine-aid-russia/

Quote:

NATO countries are not at war. People are all alive in NATO countries. And thank God. That is why we choose NATO. Not nuclear weapons," Zelenskyy said.
Teslag
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It is odd that Nortex has said he just wants this war to end the soonest so that US treasure and Ukrainian lives are saved. And yet a Russian war to take ALL of Ukraine is the bloodiest scenario possible.

And that's what he's advocating for now, rather than forced peace via NATO membership.
nortex97
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Teslag said:

It is odd that Nortex has said he just wants this war to end the soonest so that US treasure and Ukrainian lives are saved. And yet a Russian war to take ALL of Ukraine is the bloodiest scenario possible.

And that's what he's advocating for now, rather than forced peace via NATO membership.
The odd thing is your obsession with my preference for my tax dollars not flowing to Kiev, nor WW3. "Forced peace via Nato membership" is comical, but I expect nothing less. Russia got larger today, a phrase I recall being used during the vaunted mythological 'counteroffensive' in days gone by.



Yes, I prefer the war just end, and don't value its continuation on the basis of any ethnicity's bodies being stacked etc. I don't respect your assertions in any substantive way, to be clear.
Teslag
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Would you rather lines freeze where they are today, Russia keeps what it has, Ukraine joins NATO and that's it.

Or

Russia pushes the next 3 to 4 years taking all of Ukraine?
Teslag
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Quote:

People are expecting the front in Ukraine to calcify over the winter, but there's really not much basis for this.


Other than the fact that they've been calcified for two years now.
Stat Monitor Repairman
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Ukraine is America's coked up mistress. You got to keep feeding her cash or she'll find a way to ruin your life.
Ag with kids
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Teslag said:

Would you rather lines freeze where they are today, Russia keeps what it has, Ukraine joins NATO and that's it.

Or

Russia pushes the next 3 to 4 years taking all of Ukraine?
Even if Russia stops...let's say Trump negotiates a ceasefire and Russia/Ukraine sign a treaty...If Ukraine isn't in NATO, then that treaty will just go away the second Putin gets the chance.

Just like he tossed the Minsk Agreement in the ****ter.

NATO membership ENDS this.

Then everyone stops pissing money away on Putin's folly and all these Russians and Ukrainians stop dying.
You can turn off signatures, btw
nortex97
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Both Korea's are just yapping about doing anything of any consequence in 'Ukraine' imho.




China and India have resolved their long running border dispute ahead of the Kazan BRICS+ summit and are having 1:1 meetings between Xi and Modi. The world is moving past the US thanks to the bungle that is the proxy war in 'Ukraine.'
Phatbob
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Thinking that BRICS has anything to do with Ukraine is just crazy. They've been working on that for a long time strictly because reliance on the Dollar is part of what keeps the US insulated from world economic fluctuations, and those countries would rather have control over that. Ukraine has absolutely no bearing on that calculation.
nortex97
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Phatbob said:

Thinking that BRICS has anything to do with Ukraine is just crazy. They've been working on that for a long time strictly because reliance on the Dollar is part of what keeps the US insulated from world economic fluctuations, and those countries would rather have control over that. Ukraine has absolutely no bearing on that calculation.
Crazy? No. India and others seek to join/expand precisely because the tariffs and confiscation of financial assets as a consequence of this proxy war have shown the relative unsafe nature of relying on the dollar for trade. The NDB and CRA to get out of Bretton Woods are directly correlative to the 'Ukraine' war.

The wave of expansion at the 2023 BRICS summit, with invitations extended to six newcomers: Argentina, Egypt, Ethiopia, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) (Argentina declined), was very significant, and represents a lot of our 'allies' and especially the oil and gas industry globally moving away from the dollar. Trying to sideline Russia over the Donbas has only wound up giving them more allies, and financial/economic clout globally. This is unfortunate, as bringing them further into the European economy/integrating them militarily would have led to a smaller/less belligerent Russia and more economic growth for Europe alike.

The entirety of this war has benefited Russian oligarchs…but that was predictable, as the Bidens have been their business partners for decades at this point.

Phatbob
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Ukraine has little to nothing to do with it. China, Russia, India... they are facing a shifting world economy that is progressively less in their favor, and right now because the Dollar is the world base currency, it is easy to shift ito safer long term investments that are not in their economies. BRICS is an attempt to make that divestment more difficult.
nortex97
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LOL @ the truth Benz spits out here about 'our' client/proxy terrorist state that is 'Ukraine':



I for one certainly think these things are related, just as Labour sending people to Virginia etc. to campaign for Kamala against Trump is.

J. Walter Weatherman
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nortex97 said:

LOL @ the truth Benz spits out here about 'our' client/proxy terrorist state that is 'Ukraine':



I for one certainly think these things are related, just as Labour sending people to Virginia etc. to campaign for Kamala against Trump is.




So we're still spreading the lie that Zelenskyy said he wanted nuclear war?
nortex97
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You really don't need to quote the entire post. Are you claiming Zelensky didn't in fact say that's what he told Trump, about nuclear weapons? I didn't know I needed to document that, sorry.





Of course he backed off afterward when his handlers told him he went too far with his public threats;


His basic terms are; WW3 (Nato war with Russia over the Donbas etc.), or nuclear war (WW3). But he prefers the former version.

Teslag
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Saying he wants nuclear weapons as a deterrence and saying he wants "nuclear war" are two completely different things.
J. Walter Weatherman
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Did you miss the part where he said they do not want nuclear weapons? We've already established that Ukraine in NATO after a settlement removes the possibility of future fighting. So again, nothing about that signals that he wants WW3. In fact the exact opposite.
nortex97
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J. Walter Weatherman said:

Did you miss the part where he said they do not want nuclear weapons? We've already established that Ukraine in NATO after a settlement removes the possibility of future fighting. So again, nothing about that signals that he wants WW3. In fact the exact opposite.
I don't understand how you read his boast about getting/making nukes if not admitted to Nato means he doesn't want nukes, but to each his own. His 'victory plan' is one designed specifically to continue the war/provoke Russia as much as possible.


Anyway, update on the astroturfed war in 'Ukraine.'


Booming Russian wartime economy;

Teslag
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Quote:

His 'victory plan' is one designed specifically to continue the war/provoke Russia as much as possible.


You mean his "plan" is to continue to engage an occupying force invading his country and killing his people?
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