What if - hear me out - instead of sending money and weapons to the Ukraine, the United States sends all its illegal immigrants there?

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

GoAgs11 said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

TRADUCTOR said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Amazing. Such pieces of crap.

---

Yep. It takes quite the nerve to campaign on having relations with Russia being the priority over your own countries interests.

---

That little punk Zelensky is not campaigning since he cht canned Ukraine citizens right to vote for president. Sleazy lobbyist lobbying for handouts to launder.

---

Should he have rigged elections like Putin?

I bet he'd gladly have elections if Russia went home tomorrow.

---

So democracy in UKE is conditional? Good to know

---

Conditional on him not wanting people to have to dodge Russian bombs on the way to the polls? Yes. He'd have elections tomorrow if Putin stopped his invasion.

---

I've seen no evidence of this. Did he say this? If so, did you actually believe it?

---

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-birthday-grenade-b1b82e4f84eb5a39286d1500cf49fcd1

Quote:

---

"We must realize that now is the time of defense, the time of the battle that determines the fate of the state and people, not the time of manipulations, which only Russia expects from Ukraine," he said. "I believe that now is not the right time for elections."

Ukrainian legislation bans elections during martial law that has been in place since Russia launched its invasion in February 2022. The country would need to amend the law if it decided to hold the vote.

---

---

Yeah. I remember him suspending the elections. Where did he promise to hold elections the day after Russia leaves? I would expect a tyrant to say they need time to rebuild, then campaign, and hold elections several months if not 1+ years later. Which do you think is more likely?

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

GoAgs11 said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

TRADUCTOR said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Amazing. Such pieces of crap.

---

Yep. It takes quite the nerve to campaign on having relations with Russia being the priority over your own countries interests.

---

That little punk Zelensky is not campaigning since he cht canned Ukraine citizens right to vote for president. Sleazy lobbyist lobbying for handouts to launder.

---

Should he have rigged elections like Putin?

I bet he'd gladly have elections if Russia went home tomorrow.

---

So democracy in UKE is conditional? Good to know

---

Conditional on him not wanting people to have to dodge Russian bombs on the way to the polls? Yes. He'd have elections tomorrow if Putin stopped his invasion.

---

I've seen no evidence of this. Did he say this? If so, did you actually believe it?

---

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-birthday-grenade-b1b82e4f84eb5a39286d1500cf49fcd1

Quote:

---

"We must realize that now is the time of defense, the time of the battle that determines the fate of the state and people, not the time of manipulations, which only Russia expects from Ukraine," he said. "I believe that now is not the right time for elections."

Ukrainian legislation bans elections during martial law that has been in place since Russia launched its invasion in February 2022. The country would need to amend the law if it decided to hold the vote.

---

---

Yeah. I remember him suspending the elections. Where did he promise to hold elections the day after Russia leaves? I would expect a tyrant to say they need time to rebuild, then campaign, and hold elections several months if not 1+ years later. Which do you think is more likely?

---

You're probably right. It would take a couple months to recover from Putin destroying Ukraine's cities and murdering civilians for the last 2+ years before they could hold an election. Happy we both agree that the election can only take place once Putin gives up and ends his invasion. Although out of the two leaders in this war I'd label the "tyrant" as the one who started the war, "other perspectives" disagree I guess.

lol, the only Ukraine citizens that get to vote is when Russia adds another polling station.

nortex97 said:

---

NEWS ANALYSIS: BOGOYAVLENKA CAN'T REPLACE UGLEDAR, SEP 25th 2024
In a Forbes article today, David Axe talks with several Ukrainian war analysts and according to them UkrAF has begun a quiet withdrawal from Ugledar (Vuhledar).

The 72nd Ombr/Brigade defending Ugledar has around… https://t.co/1wCc1jiUVQ

— Mikael Valtersson (@MikaelValterss1) September 25, 2024

---

It took Russia over 2 and a half years to take THAT?

Impressive.

DonHenley said:

---

What if - hear me out - instead of sending money and weapons to the Ukraine, the United States sends all its illegal immigrants there?

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

GoAgs11 said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

TRADUCTOR said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Amazing. Such pieces of crap.

---

Yep. It takes quite the nerve to campaign on having relations with Russia being the priority over your own countries interests.

---

That little punk Zelensky is not campaigning since he cht canned Ukraine citizens right to vote for president. Sleazy lobbyist lobbying for handouts to launder.

---

Should he have rigged elections like Putin?

I bet he'd gladly have elections if Russia went home tomorrow.

---

So democracy in UKE is conditional? Good to know

---

Conditional on him not wanting people to have to dodge Russian bombs on the way to the polls? Yes. He'd have elections tomorrow if Putin stopped his invasion.

---

I've seen no evidence of this. Did he say this? If so, did you actually believe it?

---

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-birthday-grenade-b1b82e4f84eb5a39286d1500cf49fcd1

Quote:

---

"We must realize that now is the time of defense, the time of the battle that determines the fate of the state and people, not the time of manipulations, which only Russia expects from Ukraine," he said. "I believe that now is not the right time for elections."

Ukrainian legislation bans elections during martial law that has been in place since Russia launched its invasion in February 2022. The country would need to amend the law if it decided to hold the vote.

---

---

Yeah. I remember him suspending the elections. Where did he promise to hold elections the day after Russia leaves? I would expect a tyrant to say they need time to rebuild, then campaign, and hold elections several months if not 1+ years later. Which do you think is more likely?

---

You're probably right. It would take a couple months to recover from Putin destroying Ukraine's cities and murdering civilians for the last 2+ years before they could hold an election. Happy we both agree that the election can only take place once Putin gives up and ends his invasion. Although out of the two leaders in this war I'd label the "tyrant" as the one who started the war, "other perspectives" disagree I guess.

---

I still haven't gotten an answer as to how Ukraine could conduct the election in the occupied areas of the country...

Ag with kids said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

GoAgs11 said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

TRADUCTOR said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Amazing. Such pieces of crap.

---

Yep. It takes quite the nerve to campaign on having relations with Russia being the priority over your own countries interests.

---

That little punk Zelensky is not campaigning since he cht canned Ukraine citizens right to vote for president. Sleazy lobbyist lobbying for handouts to launder.

---

Should he have rigged elections like Putin?

I bet he'd gladly have elections if Russia went home tomorrow.

---

So democracy in UKE is conditional? Good to know

---

Conditional on him not wanting people to have to dodge Russian bombs on the way to the polls? Yes. He'd have elections tomorrow if Putin stopped his invasion.

---

I've seen no evidence of this. Did he say this? If so, did you actually believe it?

---

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-birthday-grenade-b1b82e4f84eb5a39286d1500cf49fcd1

Quote:

---

"We must realize that now is the time of defense, the time of the battle that determines the fate of the state and people, not the time of manipulations, which only Russia expects from Ukraine," he said. "I believe that now is not the right time for elections."

Ukrainian legislation bans elections during martial law that has been in place since Russia launched its invasion in February 2022. The country would need to amend the law if it decided to hold the vote.

---

---

Yeah. I remember him suspending the elections. Where did he promise to hold elections the day after Russia leaves? I would expect a tyrant to say they need time to rebuild, then campaign, and hold elections several months if not 1+ years later. Which do you think is more likely?

---

You're probably right. It would take a couple months to recover from Putin destroying Ukraine's cities and murdering civilians for the last 2+ years before they could hold an election. Happy we both agree that the election can only take place once Putin gives up and ends his invasion. Although out of the two leaders in this war I'd label the "tyrant" as the one who started the war, "other perspectives" disagree I guess.

---

I still haven't gotten an answer as to how Ukraine could conduct the election in the occupied areas of the country...

---

Same way Crimea voted in 2019.

[Stop with the nicknames of users you are arguing against. Thanks. -Staff]

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

GoAgs11 said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

TRADUCTOR said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Amazing. Such pieces of crap.

---

Yep. It takes quite the nerve to campaign on having relations with Russia being the priority over your own countries interests.

---

That little punk Zelensky is not campaigning since he cht canned Ukraine citizens right to vote for president. Sleazy lobbyist lobbying for handouts to launder.

---

Should he have rigged elections like Putin?

I bet he'd gladly have elections if Russia went home tomorrow.

---

So democracy in UKE is conditional? Good to know

---

Conditional on him not wanting people to have to dodge Russian bombs on the way to the polls? Yes. He'd have elections tomorrow if Putin stopped his invasion.

---

I've seen no evidence of this. Did he say this? If so, did you actually believe it?

---

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-birthday-grenade-b1b82e4f84eb5a39286d1500cf49fcd1

Quote:

---

"We must realize that now is the time of defense, the time of the battle that determines the fate of the state and people, not the time of manipulations, which only Russia expects from Ukraine," he said. "I believe that now is not the right time for elections."

Ukrainian legislation bans elections during martial law that has been in place since Russia launched its invasion in February 2022. The country would need to amend the law if it decided to hold the vote.

---

---

Yeah. I remember him suspending the elections. Where did he promise to hold elections the day after Russia leaves? I would expect a tyrant to say they need time to rebuild, then campaign, and hold elections several months if not 1+ years later. Which do you think is more likely?

---

You're probably right. It would take a couple months to recover from Putin destroying Ukraine's cities and murdering civilians for the last 2+ years before they could hold an election. Happy we both agree that the election can only take place once Putin gives up and ends his invasion. Although out of the two leaders in this war I'd label the "tyrant" as the one who started the war, "other perspectives" disagree I guess.

---

I still haven't gotten an answer as to how Ukraine could conduct the election in the occupied areas of the country...

---

Same way Crimea voted in 2019.

---

So...you mean not at all.

And yea, I am going to reveal classified info on this thread, Yea. OK!

And still the same adhominen's, now I am being called a Russian. LOL

Let's not get distracted from the main things.

UKRAINE LOSES WiTHOUT DIRECT US/NATO help! That is a fact and really the most important one.

And again, NOT WITH MY KIDS!

Ag with kids said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

GoAgs11 said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

TRADUCTOR said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Amazing. Such pieces of crap.

---

Yep. It takes quite the nerve to campaign on having relations with Russia being the priority over your own countries interests.

---

That little punk Zelensky is not campaigning since he cht canned Ukraine citizens right to vote for president. Sleazy lobbyist lobbying for handouts to launder.

---

Should he have rigged elections like Putin?

I bet he'd gladly have elections if Russia went home tomorrow.

---

So democracy in UKE is conditional? Good to know

---

Conditional on him not wanting people to have to dodge Russian bombs on the way to the polls? Yes. He'd have elections tomorrow if Putin stopped his invasion.

---

I've seen no evidence of this. Did he say this? If so, did you actually believe it?

---

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-birthday-grenade-b1b82e4f84eb5a39286d1500cf49fcd1

Quote:

---

"We must realize that now is the time of defense, the time of the battle that determines the fate of the state and people, not the time of manipulations, which only Russia expects from Ukraine," he said. "I believe that now is not the right time for elections."

Ukrainian legislation bans elections during martial law that has been in place since Russia launched its invasion in February 2022. The country would need to amend the law if it decided to hold the vote.

---

---

Yeah. I remember him suspending the elections. Where did he promise to hold elections the day after Russia leaves? I would expect a tyrant to say they need time to rebuild, then campaign, and hold elections several months if not 1+ years later. Which do you think is more likely?

---

You're probably right. It would take a couple months to recover from Putin destroying Ukraine's cities and murdering civilians for the last 2+ years before they could hold an election. Happy we both agree that the election can only take place once Putin gives up and ends his invasion. Although out of the two leaders in this war I'd label the "tyrant" as the one who started the war, "other perspectives" disagree I guess.

---

I still haven't gotten an answer as to how Ukraine could conduct the election in the occupied areas of the country...

---

Same way Crimea voted in 2019.

---

So...you mean not at all.

---

If it wasn't a problem then, why is it a problem now?

Or are you admitting you just need some more time to accept the new lines? Its OK if you nee more time, but I have news - Uke isn't getting it all back.

OPAG said:

---

And yea, I am going to reveal classified info on this thread, Yea. OK!

And still the same adhominen's, now I am being called a Russian. LOL

---

Ad hominem

It's 2 words.

Yeah, waiting to have elections until Donetsk and Crimea are part of Ukraine again would be as logical as Macron waiting to take back Indochina first. Plus, guess what, Zelensky ain't real popular in those areas, so even if he were a big-brain 'hero' it still would be illogical. LOL.

Life's all about options, I guess:

Ukrainians are now officially trapped in Ugledar with all roads being under direct small arms fire control.

Ukrainians in the town have three options and I’ll put them in order of best to worst.

1. Surrender, just look around and understand that even if you fight it won’t…

— ayden (@squatsons) September 25, 2024

Legion's of fraud:

The Georgian Legion has caused quite a bang amongst NAFO and some donation collecting "volunteers".

🇺🇦 stans who demanded some simple answers from the Georgian Legion are being attacked and threatened by NAFO.

I'm shocked... SHOCKED, I tell you. (mini 🧵) https://t.co/kZF75bbmoY pic.twitter.com/qK4iHoQVqG

— Olga Bazova (@OlgaBazova) September 25, 2024

[This is trolling. -Staff]

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

GoAgs11 said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

TRADUCTOR said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Amazing. Such pieces of crap.

---

Yep. It takes quite the nerve to campaign on having relations with Russia being the priority over your own countries interests.

---

That little punk Zelensky is not campaigning since he cht canned Ukraine citizens right to vote for president. Sleazy lobbyist lobbying for handouts to launder.

---

Should he have rigged elections like Putin?

I bet he'd gladly have elections if Russia went home tomorrow.

---

So democracy in UKE is conditional? Good to know

---

Conditional on him not wanting people to have to dodge Russian bombs on the way to the polls? Yes. He'd have elections tomorrow if Putin stopped his invasion.

---

I've seen no evidence of this. Did he say this? If so, did you actually believe it?

---

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-birthday-grenade-b1b82e4f84eb5a39286d1500cf49fcd1

Quote:

---

"We must realize that now is the time of defense, the time of the battle that determines the fate of the state and people, not the time of manipulations, which only Russia expects from Ukraine," he said. "I believe that now is not the right time for elections."

Ukrainian legislation bans elections during martial law that has been in place since Russia launched its invasion in February 2022. The country would need to amend the law if it decided to hold the vote.

---

---

Yeah. I remember him suspending the elections. Where did he promise to hold elections the day after Russia leaves? I would expect a tyrant to say they need time to rebuild, then campaign, and hold elections several months if not 1+ years later. Which do you think is more likely?

---

You're probably right. It would take a couple months to recover from Putin destroying Ukraine's cities and murdering civilians for the last 2+ years before they could hold an election. Happy we both agree that the election can only take place once Putin gives up and ends his invasion. Although out of the two leaders in this war I'd label the "tyrant" as the one who started the war, "other perspectives" disagree I guess.

---

I still haven't gotten an answer as to how Ukraine could conduct the election in the occupied areas of the country...

---

Same way Crimea voted in 2019.

---

So...you mean not at all.

---

If it wasn't a problem then, why is it a problem now?

Or are you admitting you just need some more time to accept the new lines? Its OK if you nee more time, but I have news - Uke isn't getting it all back.

---

a) They weren't actively at war in 2019
b) They had effectively ceded Crimea to Russia at that time.

Neither of those are true right now with the occupied territory.

But, then, you know that.

nortex97 said:

---

Yeah, waiting to have elections until Donetsk and Crimea are part of Ukraine again would be as logical as Macron waiting to take back Indochina first. Plus, guess what, Zelensky ain't real popular in those areas, so even if he were a big-brain 'hero' it still would be illogical. LOL.

---

If they hold elections and leave out the occupied territory, that would be de facto ceding it to Russia.

Then any negotiations after that time start with that baseline. That's a bad way to negotiate.

[This is trolling. -Staff]

‘Trump Will Start World War III,’ Says Party Autographing Bombs To Be Launched At Russia https://t.co/yIfvEMFmG0 pic.twitter.com/I0SnDifiwJ

— The Babylon Bee (@TheBabylonBee) September 25, 2024

Funny, but God help us all if they get what they want

[Thread derailing. -Staff]

Ag with kids said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

I stopped providing some links when 'some' just whined about what was not (fair use) excerpted by me. Just trying not to be in a silly back and forth about that.

If you have a tough time finding it or a substantive critique please do let me know, curious what any might be, from the 'pro Biden proxy-war' side of our political spectrum.

It sounds to me like the EU is unlikely to hit 50% of their targeted/promised 155mm 'aid' to Ukrainians. One mustn't look just to Russian sources of course to see the Ukrainians being largely abandoned. Reuters (admittedly a pro-CCP outfit) in early December:

Quote:

---

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - European Union countries have placed orders for only 60,000 artillery shells under an EU scheme to help get 1 million rounds of ammunition to Ukraine by next spring, according to people familiar with the figures.

The scheme was a centrepiece of an EU initiative to ramp up the supply of vital 155mm artillery shells to Ukraine, allowing countries to place orders with industry through contracts negotiated by the bloc's European Defence Agency (EDA).

The broader initiative, launched in March, offered various schemes to get 1 million shells and missiles to Ukraine within a year for the war against Russia's invasion.

Together, those schemes have yielded some 480,000 munitions, according to the EU - less than half of the target, with about four months to go.

The particularly small volume of orders for the scheme at the heart of the programme highlights bigger struggles that the EU is facing in trying to hit the target.

In a sign of concern at the low volume of orders so far, a draft declaration for an EU summit next week "stresses the urgent need to accelerate the delivery of missiles and ammunition, notably under the one million rounds of artillery ammunition initiative".

Artillery rounds are a crucial element in the war of attrition between Ukrainian troops and Russia's invasion forces, with each side firing thousands of shells every day.

The European Defence Agency said in September that seven countries had ordered ammunition through the pioneering joint procurement scheme. Lithuania, Denmark and Luxembourg said they were among the seven.

The EDA did not specify the size of the orders. But people familiar with the figures told Reuters on condition of anonymity the total was just 60,000 shells.

---

---

Ah...so now if I'm not pro-Putin like you, I must be pro-Biden?

Funny...

BTW, if you actually read that WHOLE article from Reuters (that you didn't attribute), it doesn't say what you're claiming...

The Link in case people want to read with context...

---

You did it, good (and no I didn't imply you are pro-biden but this is his proxy war after all). But, you still failed to provide a counter-point. What is it, that 'other explanations' might exist? People should trust in a magical 4 month surge in 155mm shell production for orders not placed from the EU on the basis of 'priorities?'

Quote:

---

DIFFERENT EXPLANATIONS

Officials and industry leaders have offered different explanations for the EU's struggle to meet the goal.
Some argue that many governments have simply not backed up their rhetoric about supporting Ukraine for the long haul by placing orders with arms firms.

Others insist that it takes time for industry to ramp up and restart production of such artillery shells, which until recently were not viewed as a priority for modern warfare.

Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba said last week he thought the problems were more technical than political.

"People with special knowledge of how things work - how spare parts work, how chains of supply work - they have to sit down and sort it out," he said.

Some officials have also blamed a decision to restrict the joint procurement drive to companies from the EU and Norway.

Asked whether it could confirm the 60,000 figure, the European Defence Agency said it did not comment on numbers.

---

This is an excellent case in point. Please cite what you think I am missing, and what your point is, in your 'alternative truth' from the article (or elsewhere). This war is going on 2 years old and they are talking about…sitting down to sort out logistics/parts, while up thread here we were just put on notice by a war fan that it's the Russians that don't get logistics.

Thanks and Gig 'em!

---

First...it's not 'Biden's proxy war'. It's the WEST'S proxy war.

I know you want to blame the entire thing on Biden (who is the dumbest guy we've EVER had as POTUS) but it isn't. Now, did Putin decide that because the US was being run by a potato that it would be a good time to invade? Quite possibly. But, he was always going to invade. Biden being in office just made it easier since Putin knew he was an idiot.

Second, you stated:

Quote:

---

It sounds to me like the EU is unlikely to hit 50% of their targeted/promised 155mm 'aid' to Ukrainians.

---

Nowhere in the explanations part does it state that. Pretty much all the reasons are logistical issues that are being worked through.

You are posting parts of articles without attribution OR context and then giving a commentary that you make up that doesn't meet what the articles actually state. And with no link most won't know, as Paul Harvey put it, the rest of the story.

So, you keep up with 'another perspective' and YOUR 'alternative truth'...

Just know that it's obvious you're just posting Russian propaganda and trying to disguise it...

---

It's bidens proxy war. Have discussed the reasons repeatedly. Europe didn't provoke Russia. Or blow the Nordstream pipeline.

He didn't invade under Obama or trump for many reasons. Didn't have to but was provoked by Biden team.

What parts, again am I missing? Are the articles not easily found?

Please be specific with what duty I have and failed at for quoting. Do you think the eu will hit a million shells in the twelve months they committed to somehow and on what basis?

What plants in the eu are ramping up to do that? What orders have been placed? What source did I partially support which justifies your math?

---

Putin LITERALLY had Russia invade Crimea in 2014. Crimea is part of Ukraine. Russia has been using proxies to take over areas of the eastern part since then, too (including when Trump was in office).

I get it. You hate Biden. But, that doesn't mean that Putin invaded because of him...

---

AWK, at your request, here it is.

"Crimea is part of Ukraine"

NYE 2023

"Last time we spoke on Crimea you told me it still wasn't Russia" confirmed.

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

I stopped providing some links when 'some' just whined about what was not (fair use) excerpted by me. Just trying not to be in a silly back and forth about that.

If you have a tough time finding it or a substantive critique please do let me know, curious what any might be, from the 'pro Biden proxy-war' side of our political spectrum.

It sounds to me like the EU is unlikely to hit 50% of their targeted/promised 155mm 'aid' to Ukrainians. One mustn't look just to Russian sources of course to see the Ukrainians being largely abandoned. Reuters (admittedly a pro-CCP outfit) in early December:

Quote:

---

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - European Union countries have placed orders for only 60,000 artillery shells under an EU scheme to help get 1 million rounds of ammunition to Ukraine by next spring, according to people familiar with the figures.

The scheme was a centrepiece of an EU initiative to ramp up the supply of vital 155mm artillery shells to Ukraine, allowing countries to place orders with industry through contracts negotiated by the bloc's European Defence Agency (EDA).

The broader initiative, launched in March, offered various schemes to get 1 million shells and missiles to Ukraine within a year for the war against Russia's invasion.

Together, those schemes have yielded some 480,000 munitions, according to the EU - less than half of the target, with about four months to go.

The particularly small volume of orders for the scheme at the heart of the programme highlights bigger struggles that the EU is facing in trying to hit the target.

In a sign of concern at the low volume of orders so far, a draft declaration for an EU summit next week "stresses the urgent need to accelerate the delivery of missiles and ammunition, notably under the one million rounds of artillery ammunition initiative".

Artillery rounds are a crucial element in the war of attrition between Ukrainian troops and Russia's invasion forces, with each side firing thousands of shells every day.

The European Defence Agency said in September that seven countries had ordered ammunition through the pioneering joint procurement scheme. Lithuania, Denmark and Luxembourg said they were among the seven.

The EDA did not specify the size of the orders. But people familiar with the figures told Reuters on condition of anonymity the total was just 60,000 shells.

---

---

Ah...so now if I'm not pro-Putin like you, I must be pro-Biden?

Funny...

BTW, if you actually read that WHOLE article from Reuters (that you didn't attribute), it doesn't say what you're claiming...

The Link in case people want to read with context...

---

You did it, good (and no I didn't imply you are pro-biden but this is his proxy war after all). But, you still failed to provide a counter-point. What is it, that 'other explanations' might exist? People should trust in a magical 4 month surge in 155mm shell production for orders not placed from the EU on the basis of 'priorities?'

Quote:

---

DIFFERENT EXPLANATIONS

Officials and industry leaders have offered different explanations for the EU's struggle to meet the goal.
Some argue that many governments have simply not backed up their rhetoric about supporting Ukraine for the long haul by placing orders with arms firms.

Others insist that it takes time for industry to ramp up and restart production of such artillery shells, which until recently were not viewed as a priority for modern warfare.

Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba said last week he thought the problems were more technical than political.

"People with special knowledge of how things work - how spare parts work, how chains of supply work - they have to sit down and sort it out," he said.

Some officials have also blamed a decision to restrict the joint procurement drive to companies from the EU and Norway.

Asked whether it could confirm the 60,000 figure, the European Defence Agency said it did not comment on numbers.

---

This is an excellent case in point. Please cite what you think I am missing, and what your point is, in your 'alternative truth' from the article (or elsewhere). This war is going on 2 years old and they are talking about…sitting down to sort out logistics/parts, while up thread here we were just put on notice by a war fan that it's the Russians that don't get logistics.

Thanks and Gig 'em!

---

First...it's not 'Biden's proxy war'. It's the WEST'S proxy war.

I know you want to blame the entire thing on Biden (who is the dumbest guy we've EVER had as POTUS) but it isn't. Now, did Putin decide that because the US was being run by a potato that it would be a good time to invade? Quite possibly. But, he was always going to invade. Biden being in office just made it easier since Putin knew he was an idiot.

Second, you stated:

Quote:

---

It sounds to me like the EU is unlikely to hit 50% of their targeted/promised 155mm 'aid' to Ukrainians.

---

Nowhere in the explanations part does it state that. Pretty much all the reasons are logistical issues that are being worked through.

You are posting parts of articles without attribution OR context and then giving a commentary that you make up that doesn't meet what the articles actually state. And with no link most won't know, as Paul Harvey put it, the rest of the story.

So, you keep up with 'another perspective' and YOUR 'alternative truth'...

Just know that it's obvious you're just posting Russian propaganda and trying to disguise it...

---

It's bidens proxy war. Have discussed the reasons repeatedly. Europe didn't provoke Russia. Or blow the Nordstream pipeline.

He didn't invade under Obama or trump for many reasons. Didn't have to but was provoked by Biden team.

What parts, again am I missing? Are the articles not easily found?

Please be specific with what duty I have and failed at for quoting. Do you think the eu will hit a million shells in the twelve months they committed to somehow and on what basis?

What plants in the eu are ramping up to do that? What orders have been placed? What source did I partially support which justifies your math?

---

Putin LITERALLY had Russia invade Crimea in 2014. Crimea is part of Ukraine. Russia has been using proxies to take over areas of the eastern part since then, too (including when Trump was in office).

I get it. You hate Biden. But, that doesn't mean that Putin invaded because of him...

---

AWK, at your request, here it is.

"Crimea is part of Ukraine"

NYE 2023

"Last time we spoke on Crimea you told me it still wasn't Russia" confirmed.

---

It is part of Ukraine.

Note that I said EFFECTIVELY ceded Crimea to Russia.

But, thank you for the link. Confirms that you think this is all due to Biden and not Putin.

Doesn't negate any of my points, though.

Quote:

---

[url=https://www.nbcnews.com/investigations/rcna172504][O[/url]]fficials said the stigma around white phosphorus and concerns that it could affect civilians has kept Biden administration officials from approving the recommendation.

---

White phosphorus makes a comeback.

BRICS+ meeting in late October in Russia will present some interesting election-season headlines, presumably. Really, this is a direct outcome of the Biden-Nuland-Harris proxy war with Russia. Foreign Affairs source:

Quote:

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In late October, the group of countries known as the BRICS will convene in the Russian city of Kazan for its annual summit. The meeting is set to be a moment of triumph for its host, Russian President Vladimir Putin, who will preside over this gathering of an increasingly hefty bloc even as he prosecutes his brutal war in Ukraine. The group's acronym comes from its first five membersBrazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africabut it has now grown to include Egypt, Ethiopia, Iran, and the United Arab Emirates. Saudi Arabia also participates in the group's activities, but it has not formally joined. Together, these ten countries represent 35.6 percent of global GDP in purchasing power parity terms (more than the G-7's 30.3 percent) and 45 percent of the world's population (the G-7 represents less than ten percent). In the coming years, BRICS is likely to expand further, with more than 40 countries expressing interest in joining, including emerging powers such as Indonesia.

Putin will be able to claim that despite the West's best efforts to isolate Russia after its full-scale invasion of Ukraine, his country not only is far from being an international pariah but also is now a pivotal member of a dynamic group that will shape the future of the international order. That message is not mere rhetorical posturing, nor is it simply a testament to the Kremlin's skillful diplomacy with non-Western countries or to those countries' self-interested, pragmatic engagement with Russia.

---

Long article, I recommend it. Separately, a 'secret' Russian drone project in China is reported on by Reuters.

Quote:

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COMPARABLE TO US REAPER DRONE?
The G3 is an upgraded version of the Garpiya-A1 drone, according to Kupol's reports sent to the defence ministry. It was redesigned by Chinese experts working off blueprints of the Garpiya-A1, they said.
Kupol said that within eight months, the project in China would be ready to produce a Chinese-designed REM 1 attack UAV with a payload of 400 kg. The two European intelligence sources said this system would be similar to the U.S. Reaper drone.
…
The 80-hectare "Advanced UAV Research and Manufacturing Base" would be able to produce 800 drones a year, the document said. No timeline was given for when it would be operational.
Last week, Russian President Vladimir Putin said his military had received around 140,000 drones in 2023 and that Moscow planned to increase this number tenfold this year.
"Whoever reacts faster to demands on the battlefield wins," he told a meeting in St Petersburg about drone production.

---

We will regret the day we refused Russian inquiring into joining Nato and were refused by the Neocon/MIC cabal who needed an enemy to wave in front of the naive American people to justify their feces!

Russia being accepted into the western alliance would of created the most powerful alliance the world has ever seen, and that is why the Deep State. Malthusians didn't want it. It would of destroyed their plans of having a one world gov that they rule over and control.

"Credible war aims."

We've been witnessing the shift in the narrative from "Ukraine can and will regain all of its territories" to "Ukraine needs to get real and forget about gaining its territories". The Economist posts this realistic article but still sprinkles it with Ukraine joining NATO cope. pic.twitter.com/GUo9ZowUOq

— Olga Bazova (@OlgaBazova) September 27, 2024

Ugledar is encircled, meanwhile. And, Saint Zelensky is going to stick around to meet Trump today, apparently, to grovel for campaigning for Harris I suppose. Hopefully DJT twists the knife.

Kamala is currently meeting with Zelensky and Trump just posted a text from him asking to have a meeting.

Even Zelensky knows Trump is going to win. pic.twitter.com/0hxc7yUtr5

— johnny maga (@_johnnymaga) September 26, 2024

Trump's comments in NC certainly reflect reality (also a longer sitrep at this link):

Quote:

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"We continue to give billions of dollars to a man who refuses to make a deal," Trump said at a campaign rally in North Carolina.

"So many dead people, any deal, even the worst deal, would have been better than what we have right now," the former US president said.

"You have a country that has been obliterated, not possible to be rebuilt," Trump continued, referring to the situation in Ukraine. "It will take hundreds of years to rebuild it. There's not enough money to rebuild it if the whole world got together."

---

We pay a trillion in interest/year on our debt already, 'rebuilding' Ukraine shouldn't be on the table for the US taxpayer.

The clock is quite literally ticking on the UFA:

What the hell. 😨
"The commanders estimated that 50 to 70 per cent of new infantry troops were killed or wounded within days of starting their first rotation." https://t.co/gxitaZxypL

— SIMPLICIUS Ѱ (@simpatico771) September 27, 2024

God it’s incredible.

At this point the pro Ukrainian information space doesn’t even talk about Ukraine anymore because there isn’t a single positive development stateside. Every little event is signal boosted to the max and Ukrohype is again overblowing a single data point to…

— ayden (@squatsons) September 21, 2024

I mean, yeah, you are finally damn right Kamala, because I definitely don't want my son going to war in Russia/the "Ukraine" over control of Donetsk/Donbas/Crimea.

Kamala Harris, meeting with Zelensky: "there are some in my country who [want] to force Ukraine to give up large parts of its sovereign territory...these proposals are the same as those of Putin. Let us be be clear. They are not proposals for peace. Instead, they are proposals… https://t.co/lfyc4QbKEF

— Tymofiy Mylovanov (@Mylovanov) September 26, 2024

"To the last Ukrainian."

Again, this is an entirely politically driven war, and the War Ticket in the US is on the pro-war side:

Ukraine is gone

Any deal would have been better than this

We continue to give billions of dollars to [Zelensky] who wouldn’t take any deal

Kamala doesn’t know what she is doing

They want our kids to be sent to Ukraine to fight 1/

pic.twitter.com/KmINMI8NiM

— Tymofiy Mylovanov (@Mylovanov) September 26, 2024

I disagree, because I think its all on hold until the election, but this is not something I've ever seen proposed before. Had to share

Some thoughts for the plane ride back to Kiev. pic.twitter.com/6UhQPdvLA8

— Chay Bowes (@BowesChay) September 27, 2024

I've read such speculation, but I dunno, his main fear is probably his 'fellow' Ukrainians, not the CIA. We've let others supported/trained/equipped by the CIA go for quite a while, such as the Shah/Ayatollah's, Noriega, Arafat, Castro, Mugabe, etc. His decisions to buy places in Italy/Florida etc. are probably smart ones. Then again…

As usual, we will get bored and walk away. Zelensky’s Star Power Fades on Capitol Hill https://t.co/RgKTvvN21A https://t.co/jIznjm6Vye

— David P. Goldman (@davidpgoldman) September 27, 2024

The ones paying the price for the war of attrition, a quantity reasonably estimated but never publicly discussed in the US:

His numbers are almost a year out of date at this point. By now there is likely to be 500,000 dead and missing alone. pic.twitter.com/8Yrz7U2onh

— pikachu888 (@pikachu8883) September 28, 2024

The 'enemy:'

‼️ 🇷🇺Belousov held another closed-door meeting with top legendary Russian correspondents to address all issues on the frontline, allowing the correspondents to deliver word directly from frontline soldiers to the MOD about the most pressing concerns, deficiencies, etc. which need… pic.twitter.com/NUQ1yQb3NG

— SIMPLICIUS Ѱ (@simpatico771) September 28, 2024

Perhaps the best piece I've seen written on the strategic errors/situation in Ukraine all year. Brussels Signal: bigger sponsors (China/US) hold the key to outcome of proxy war.

Quote:

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As for gaining a decisive advantage over Russian field forces, again this is much more difficult than it sometimes appears from the Western coverage of the war. By Zelensky's own admission, current levels of Western assistance including the massive military aid package voted by the US Congress in April are not enough even to equip "4 out of 14" brigades needed at the front. Meanwhile, the Russians are grinding through Ukraine's crucial Donbas defences in multiple directions, advancing at the highest pace since the early phase of the war. It is a full-blown offensive that is rolling up some of the strongest Ukrainian positions, like Vuhledar. At this point it is wholly unclear how and whether the Ukrainian command will be able to stabilise the frontline again.
In these conditions the scale of the resources needed (and Western political will) to turn the tide in Kyiv's favour on all three counts is enormous even if Russia's own war effort remains stagnant at current levels, i.e. if its military-economic mobilisation doesn't increase in response to any extra pressure from Ukraine. And the fundamental reason why Russia is able to not only stay in this fight, but also expand its military capacity, is China's help.
Perhaps the most misunderstood and under-discussed relative to its vital importance aspect of this war is the role of China. We find ourselves in a very curious situation. On the one hand, Beijing's involvement in supporting the Russian economy as well as Putin's military machine is well documented; on the other hand, it only appears as an afterthought in Western debates.

---

Forever war.

I do not see how more aid can turn the tide? Seems obvious to me Uks needs more men. No one seems willing to go, not even Ukrainians. Correct me if I am missing something, but this is grim…..

The intent was just to exhaust this allotment of 'aid' so that after election week the war hawks can demand the House pass another one before Trump is sworn in/in a lame duck session. I won't link to it but the sad tale of the UFA 151st brigade is captured by some posts on simplicius' timeline.

The Soros familia fully backs the war party globally, not just Harris-Walz;

Superstar of this year’s general assembly! Great speech by British FM @DavidLammy on Russian imperialism and agression. 🇬🇧 pic.twitter.com/SLmFh1d9U3

— Alex Soros (@AlexanderSoros) September 28, 2024

War Grift at scale;

Please enjoy this wonderful story. I surely did.

Source:https://t.co/JRXT7klRbZ

— Olga Bazova (@OlgaBazova) September 29, 2024

New geolocations show some significant Russian gains, crumpling the eastern shoulder of the Ukrainian salient in Kursk. pic.twitter.com/u0iJx2zhJw

— Big Serge ☦️🇺🇸🇷🇺 (@witte_sergei) September 29, 2024

I mean, yeah, all of that (below) is true:

.@theallinpod is worried that the Biden-Harris administration is sleepwalking into World War III.@friedberg: "We're waltzing into World War III."@chamath: "Liberalism has always meant being completely against war and completely in favor of free speech. We've lost the script.… pic.twitter.com/cMsqWSrFqc

— KanekoaTheGreat (@KanekoaTheGreat) September 30, 2024

Former Czech Premier Babis: US election will decide Russia proxy-war.

Quote:

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The outcome of the Ukraine conflict will be decided by the upcoming US presidential election in November, former Czech Prime Minister Andrej Babis believes.

Speaking to the Financial Times in an interview published on Sunday, Babis said that "even the EU and NATO countries are not united on how to proceed in Ukraine," adding that the bloc should pursue peace rather than anything else.

"But let us be realistic: the US elections will decide the war in Ukraine," Babis stated, adding that "a [Donald] Trump win would be good for Europe because he promised to end the war immediately."

The remarks come as Babis' ANO party secured a major win in regional elections last week, coming out on top in ten of the country's 13 regions. On Saturday, the party also won partial elections for the Czech Senate, dealing another blow to the ruling five-party coalition led by Prime Minister Petr Fiala.

The election setbacks suffered by the ruling coalitions, as well as the internal strife it has experienced lately, including Fiala sacking his deputy and the leader of the allied Pirate Party, seem to have given Babis confidence that he will be able to return to power in the parliamentary election next October.

---

Good news, on all fronts.

I guess most folks don't want to talk about the war for Ukrainian 'freedom' any longer.

Mark Rutte became the new Nato sec. General. Most might recall his time as the Dutch premier when they went all out to pursue their own farmers in the Club of Rome/WEF-driven insanity (under the pretense of nitrogen pollution, unironically, this war has disrupted Ukrainian/russian ammonia nitrates which accounted for most of our fertilizer of this type, and spiked food prices directly). Now, he targets Ukrainian farmland of course as a vital interest worthy of WW3.

🇳🇱 Mark Rutte started officially as Secretary General of NATO.

In his opening speech he once again called for more support for Ukraine saying the war won't end on the frontlines. pic.twitter.com/ytSIBUMXNy

— Lord Bebo (@MyLordBebo) October 1, 2024

Former Blackrock CEO:

Zelensky agenda was to depopulate Ukraine, which he has successfully done. Now probably less than 15 million left in Ukraine, most of them are too old and population will further shrink within a decade.

— SIRCORP (@_SIRCORP) October 1, 2024

Ugledar has been taken by the Russians. Ukrainians will get 'the right' people in charge, one of these days. The latest purges:

It’s a day that ends in -y, so Kyiv is buzzing with rumors of another official shakeup in government, defense & military. Since last week, I’ve been told by several Ukrainian officials close to Zelensky that he wants to replace some ministers and defense and military officials.… https://t.co/qcxOzOybit

— Christopher Miller (@ChristopherJM) October 1, 2024