Russia/Ukraine from Another Perspective (Relaunch Part Deux)

599,702 Views | 9859 Replies | Last: 8 hrs ago by nortex97
nortex97
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To a degree, you have to laugh. But it is sad.





Well done here by Sachs:
Teslag
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Almost 20% of US forces are made up of women, with over 160 American women killed in Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan. All part of the greatest fighting force on the planet.

Kudos to Ukraine for letting all fight to defend their country. And it's probably better to fight Russians than be raped by them.
Artorias
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Teslag said:

Almost 20% of US forces are made up of women, with over 160 American women killed in Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan. All part of the greatest fighting force on the planet.

Kudos to Ukraine for letting all fight to defend their country. And it's probably better to fight Russians than be raped by them.
Cheering sending women to die in war. SMH.
Teslag
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Some of the finest NCOs I've ever served with were women. I'm proud of the commitment and effort they gave their country. So are they.

You are free to disagree.
Teslag
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In addition, women in service in response to an immediate national threat is nothing new. And in some cases critical. Take Israel for example. On October 7th, there were instances of women leading male response forces to direct engagement with Hamas forces. And currently women are integrated and on the ground fighting in Gaza.

That's what happens when you face a national threat. Everyone fights. If you have a problem with Ukrainian women dying then blame the one singular cause, Putin invading a sovereign peaceful country for a land grab.
J. Walter Weatherman
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Teslag said:

In addition, women in service in response to an immediate national threat is nothing new. And in some cases critical. Take Israel for example. On October 7th, there were instances of women leading male response forces to direct engagement with Hamas forces. And currently women are integrated and on the ground fighting in Gaza.

That's what happens when you face a national threat. Everyone fights. If you have a problem with Ukrainian women dying then blame the one singular cause, Putin invading a sovereign peaceful country for a land grab.


Exactly. If we were being invaded by a hostile neighbor I'd expect a significant percentage of people who sign up to fight would not be limited to the traditional military demographics. It's as much of an all hands on deck moment as you can get. But no surprise the Russian trolls like Simplicus are trying to downplay people defending their country.
Aggie1205
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Artorias said:

Cheering sending women to die in war. SMH.


The Russians extensively used women to fight in WW2.
nortex97
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Interesting.



Fun times ahead, though the war must continue until the US election is decided in November. Putin also met with a Chinese official today, seemed to be a good meeting.
Ag with kids
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nortex97 said:



Interesting.



Fun times ahead, though the war must continue until the US election is decided in November. Putin also met with a Chinese official today, seemed to be a good meeting.
More genius level thinking by Putin.

Let the Ukrainians stay in Russia...
Teslag
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Ya. A week ago the incursion had been halted. Then Russia lost more towns and evacuated 20,000 people. Now they reveal their actual strategy of letting them stay. And advance.

OPAG
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I am curious if either one of you (Tesla and Ag with Kid) have any clue about the repeated history of Russian military tactics. I mean it's like wow.

Russia has never ever had any problem with yielding territory to an invader.

In this situation if they really wanted to they could shift forces out of the Donbass area, they choose not to because they don't need to. LOL

Again a simple understanding of Russian strategy will indicate that they are just fine with letting Ukraine expand resources men (and now women) to make basically a meaningless incursion into Russia (other then PR and propaganda).

They know that Ukraine is very limited in what they can do here. Again, Russia is fighting as they do a long haul war, that they know, (unless there is serious commitment from NATO and the US) that they are going to win.

.
Teslag
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Quote:

Russia has never ever had any problem with yielding territory to an invader.


How many times has Russia been invaded in modern combat?

Quote:

they are going to win


Define win.
nortex97
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Scholz is skeptical about the Kursk PR campaign:



Bryansk now, with light vehicles? LOL.

Stat Monitor Repairman
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OPAG
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Unless the west/US is ready to commit to serious resources and boots to the ground Russia will win,

Meaning, that the entire eastern side of Ukraine including Crimea will be incorporated back into Russia.

The nation state of Ukraine as it is now will cease to exist. And it will be the buffer state that Russia wants it to be.

And Ukraine will not hold any of this territory from this absolutely desperate incursion into Russia.

All sex and drug trafficking will be stopped. The Soros/Cabal state will be effectively eliminated.

That's called winning and that is what is going to happen UNLESS THE WEST is WILLING TO PLAY THE BIG "IF" card which could well lead us into a cataclysmic war.

(Which is maybe what you MIC war mongers want. I surely know the Malthusian elites want it. They want depopulation, by any means)
Teslag
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So you think Russia will take all of Ukraine? When? And with what? Be specific. Because there's zero way any part of Ukraine left not in Russia isn't joining NATO.
OPAG
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Reading comprehension is lacking.

I said the eastern part with the large Russian ethnic majority, including Crimea will be incorporated into Russia.

The rest of Ukraine will be a buffer state that the west has to basically take care, rebuild, etc.

The west and NATO are all for this war until it really starts costing them Is France going to send troops. Germany no way their populace will rise up and kick them out.

Who is sending troops to Ukraine? NOBODY,
J. Walter Weatherman
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OPAG said:

Yea, sure, We'll see. Just like the vax was safe and effective right.

The rebuilding of what is left of Ukraine is going to take some time and resources. Who is paying for that?

And Russia after having successfully WON is just going to go OK. you can join NATO. Nah aint' happening.


Russia doesn't get to dictate what defensive alliances an independent country gets to join. Once the fighting is over, most likely with borders pretty close to where they are now, Ukraine will join NATO and Russia won't be able to invade again. Which is likely why they want to drag the fighting on as long as possible.
nortex97
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The easiest/most exigent answer would be to allow some remnant around Kiev to join Nato, contingent on us concurrently leaving Nato. Russia can have the resources/port/pipelines etc, rebuild the cities/energy infrastructure without our tax dollars, and we are unburdened by what has been. Hopefully Trump goes with such a proposal.

PlaneCrashGuy
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J. Walter Weatherman said:

OPAG said:

Yea, sure, We'll see. Just like the vax was safe and effective right.

The rebuilding of what is left of Ukraine is going to take some time and resources. Who is paying for that?

And Russia after having successfully WON is just going to go OK. you can join NATO. Nah aint' happening.


Russia doesn't get to dictate what defensive alliances an independent country gets to join. Once the fighting is over, most likely with borders pretty close to where they are now, Ukraine will join NATO and Russia won't be able to invade again. Which is likely why they want to drag the fighting on as long as possible.


The fighting will go on until Ukraine can actually stop Russia- which they can't do. It will take troops from another nation.

While the propaganda press touts the PR offensive as effective, it just isnt so. If you listened to the interview with the German Tank Commander posted recently you will recall he stated Russia has still gained more this year than Uke has in their recent offensive.
Teslag
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Ukraine has taken 480 square miles in the past two weeks.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna167520

That's more than Russia has gained in 2024 in Ukraine. Russia remains completely unable to mount an offensive.

And now they are completely unable to mount a defense.
PlaneCrashGuy
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Teslag said:

Ukraine has taken 480 square miles in the past two weeks.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna167520

That's more than Russia has gained in 2024 in Ukraine. Russia remains completely unable to mount an offensive.

And now they are completely unable to mount a defense.


The German tank commander had something else to say. And he gave the interview after returning from Ukraine, so respectfully, I don't believe you.
Teslag
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Well, a single tank commander would definitely have his finger on the entire status of the front.
PlaneCrashGuy
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Teslag said:

Well, a single tank commander would definitely have his finger on the entire status of the front.


I'm not saying he knows everything, just that he knows more than you, respectfully.

He was actually there, for starters.
Teslag
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I was wrong. It's now 489 square miles.

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-kursk-ukraine-territory-controlled-sudzha-korenovo-1942195
Teslag
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Russia has gained 481 square miles since the start of the year.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/07/31/russian-territorial-gains-in-july-roughly-the-size-of-washington-dc-afp-a85894

489 > 481
Pumpkinhead
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I have seen some casualty estimates that Russia may be close to 600K dead or wounded at this point. Ukraine no doubt equally horrible numbers.

Accurate numbers not being reported by either side but even if just half that, Russia has already in just 2 and a half years blown by U.S.'s casualties in Vietnam over a decade back then (which was ironically a Soviet/Chinese proxy war against us…now the shoe is on the other foot).

And imagine if during the Vietnam war the Vietnam Cong had slipped over in some boats and invaded our West Coast grabbing like 500 square miles…

If Russia was anywhere close to a democracy with real elections and free press, Putin would be toast. Shows again that although Western governments certainly are flawed and no angels, how dictatorships are always the best at killing their own people.
PlaneCrashGuy
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Teslag said:

I was wrong. It's now 500 square miles.

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-kursk-ukraine-territory-controlled-sudzha-korenovo-1942195


From your link:

" Kyiv has a grip on just under 489 square miles of territory"

At the minimum you've illustrated why the German probably knows more than *cheks notes* Newsweek.
Teslag
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489 is still more than 481
Teslag
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Quote:

And imagine if during the Vietnam war the Vietnam Cong had slipped over in some boats and invaded our West Coast grabbing like 500 square miles…


And then imagine our leaders trying to convince us that it was actually a good thing. And even some people even agreeing with it.
PlaneCrashGuy
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Teslag said:

489 is still more than 481


But you're citing Newsweek, and I'm citing the guy who just got back from the front.

And we're arguing over a 1% difference. My mind is not changed.
nortex97
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Pumpkinhead said:

I have seen some casualty estimates that Russia may be close to 600K dead or wounded at this point. Ukraine no doubt equally horrible numbers.

Accurate numbers not being reported by either side but even if just half that, Russia has already in just 2 and a half years blown by U.S.'s casualties in Vietnam over a decade back then (which was ironically a Soviet/Chinese proxy war against us…now the shoe is on the other foot).

And imagine if during the Vietnam war the Vietnam Cong had slipped over in some boats and invaded our West Coast grabbing like 500 square miles…

If Russia was anywhere close to a democracy with real elections and free press, Putin would be toast. Shows again that although Western governments certainly are flawed and no angels, how dictatorships are always the best at killing their own people.
This analysis neglects that the rulers in this war, on both side, could give less than a crap about the serfs they sacrifice. Biden (Zelensky)-Putin…just don't care, any more than Maduro or the mullah's really care about popular opinion. The Vietnam analogy that works would be the Gulf of Tonkin incident, which, while militarily insignificant, worked via propaganda to expand the war tremendously, despite it not being in American interests. Or perhaps on the other hand the Tet offensive, which while militarily disastrous for the NVA was a propaganda victory.

The analogy that doesn't work is Rolling Thunder, which brought the North to its knees, and then the US didn't press the advantage to a real truce. Partially, that is because it involved real air superiority, something the UFA does not have in Kursk or anywhere else along the FBA.

America doesn't need to care about Russia, which isn't on our borders and isn't an economic competitor. If we could extract ourselves from the money laundering/graft/death that is Ukraine-Russia we'd be well served.

Teslag
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https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/russia-ukraine-war-drone-attack-moscow-kursk-incursion-latest/

Quote:

Special forces have led the charge, enabling Ukraine to capture a claimed 500 square miles of Russian territory


https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/08/21/ukraine-is-blowing-up-bridges-in-kursk-as-fast-as-russia-can-build-them/

Quote:

The first hints Ukraine was targeting bridges in Kursk came on Friday, when imagery appeared online depicting worsening damagethe result of back-to-back strikesto a concrete span across the Seym in Glushkovo, nine miles west of the front line of the 500-square-mile invasion zone.


https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4839050-ukraine-moscow-drone-attack/amp/

Quote:

The attack around Moscow comes as Ukraine is advancing into Kursk, taking close to 500 square miles of territory and more than 90 settlements in the Russian region.


https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-seized-nyc-sized-area-russia-lightning-offensive-photos-2024-8

Quote:

As of Tuesday, Ukrainian forces have captured nearly 100 settlements in the Kursk region and control at least 1,263 square kilometers roughly 488 square miles of Russian territory since the shock invasion began.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/ukraine/2024/08/21/ukraine-moscow-drone-attack-updates/74886216007/

Quote:

Belgorod has been a frequent target of Ukrainian shelling, and Kyiv forces seized almost 500 square miles in Kursk and took hundreds of Russian soldiers prisoner in an incursion two weeks ago.



J. Walter Weatherman
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PlaneCrashGuy said:

J. Walter Weatherman said:

OPAG said:

Yea, sure, We'll see. Just like the vax was safe and effective right.

The rebuilding of what is left of Ukraine is going to take some time and resources. Who is paying for that?

And Russia after having successfully WON is just going to go OK. you can join NATO. Nah aint' happening.


Russia doesn't get to dictate what defensive alliances an independent country gets to join. Once the fighting is over, most likely with borders pretty close to where they are now, Ukraine will join NATO and Russia won't be able to invade again. Which is likely why they want to drag the fighting on as long as possible.


The fighting will go on until Ukraine can actually stop Russia- which they can't do. It will take troops from another nation.

While the propaganda press touts the PR offensive as effective, it just isnt so. If you listened to the interview with the German Tank Commander posted recently you will recall he stated Russia has still gained more this year than Uke has in their recent offensive.


They're both waiting out the election, once that's over my guess is that Putin stops pushing much further and the lines end up not far from where they are now - outside of Ukraine's current incursion (since unlike Russia they aren't interested in occupying another country's land).

Then ideally the rest of Ukraine joins NATO and we get relative peace for the near future.
PlaneCrashGuy
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I'm well aware that our propaganda press will peddle the same narrative. But were any of these articles written by a service member of an army allied with Ukraine who had recently returned from the front? In my mind, I'm citing a primary source, and you're citing propagandists.


Look at this picture and tell me it isn't coordinated.
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