Ag with kids said:

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Ag with kids said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Ag with kids said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Ag with kids said:

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Ag with kids said:

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Teslag said:

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And re-affirmed just yesterday...

https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2024/08/20/germany-affirms-ukraine-military-aid-amid-budget-maneuvering/

Quote:

---

Speaking at a press conference on Monday, government spokesperson Wolfgang Bchner countered journalists' questions on the FAZ reporting, saying that "absolutely nothing will change in our commitment and decisiveness in supporting Ukraine." Suggesting otherwise would be "almost defamatory," he said.

---

---

Now you are what you just accused me of doing. "This is like MTG"

As I said, its bookmarked. No need to get into it. Just don't call me a liar when I pull actual receipts in a few months.

---

A government spokesperson != one random member of the government

The guy in the quote is giving the official government position...

---

Sure, but its willful ignorance to ignore what is being said in private about future plans. Do you disagree with that statement?

---

Depends.

But, there are plenty of members of every political party in every country that say things in private that have nothing to do with how the government will actually act.

There are members of the GOP that want no money to go to Ukraine. It's good to listen so that you understand that faction of the party.

But, the OFFICIAL party position is that money will go to Ukraine. Knowing what those others think changes nothing about the actual outcome.

---

I agree with everything here. Which is why my assertion isn't based solely on the leak- but also the cuts already being made.

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-ukraine-military-aid-2026/a-69984998

---

That is just saying that Germany is going to fund Ukraine a different way, but that they are STILL going to fund them.

The rest is just fear mongering that they MAY cut aid. Just like here when all the politicians whined about Ukraine aid being the most important thing since oxygen. But, there was nothing in that that stated they are GOING to cut aid, just speculation and hissy fits.

---

I disagree with your framing but we both recognize nothing is decided yet.

From where I sit, last month German govt approved a budget that would cut Uke aid in half. That, plus this funding change, is a much different song than "as much for as long as it takes," which was their old stance.

I don't think its wrong to recognize the change in their tune.

This is the article I recalled from last month: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0kr91zqp0lo

---

They said the other half will come from the frozen Russian assets. They did not say they were cutting the amount of aid - just changing how it is paid for. Budget games happen all the time.

---

From the BBC article I linked:
"The planned aid cut comes amid fears in Ukraine and among its European allies that US funds could be slashed or even stopped if Donald Trump wins the presidency in November's election."

If the aid wasn't being cut as you asserted, then they would use the gains from seized assets to increase their total expenditure on aid.

Creative accounting is not changing the reality: Germany can't afford it.

---

That is the amount cut from the budget...
they point out later in the same article that the cut amount will be made up with the Russian funds...

The Germans are saying they'll spend the same amount as they would have. Your claim has them spending MORE then they had said they would...

---

Thank you for finally admitting Germans are cutting aid.

Quote:

---

But Russia considers NATO expansion to be an existential threat and can therefore not stand down before Ukrainian neutrality is restored. As NATO rejects any negotiations on NATO expansion, the only path for Russia to achieve its objective is attrition warfare

---

Seems like a solid plan. Now NATO is by proxy expanding into Russia itself with every passing day….

PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Teslag said:

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Wait a minute. Now we've got 2 folks claiming 2 different things, so which is it?

Is the plan to seize the assets or use the capital gains?

I cannot keep your stories straight.

---

Check the article dates. Original plan European countries wanted to simply use the interest on frozen accounts to fund aid. What the Germans are advocating for now is to start drawing down on the frozen accounts to supply aid instead of using federal German funds.

---

"The interest for these loans are to be paid for by, among other things, interest earnings from frozen Russian assets"

What am I missing? It doesn't say what you say it says. And your story doesn't match AWK.

---

Because it's an old article.

Teslag said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Wait a minute. Now we've got 2 folks claiming 2 different things, so which is it?

Is the plan to seize the assets or use the capital gains?

I cannot keep your stories straight.

---

Check the article dates. Original plan European countries wanted to simply use the interest on frozen accounts to fund aid. What the Germans are advocating for now is to start drawing down on the frozen accounts to supply aid instead of using federal German funds.

---

That's even better in my view.

Less to give back to the Russians when this ends.

Where is the new article?

PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Ag with kids said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Teslag said:

---

And re-affirmed just yesterday...

https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2024/08/20/germany-affirms-ukraine-military-aid-amid-budget-maneuvering/

Quote:

---

Speaking at a press conference on Monday, government spokesperson Wolfgang Bchner countered journalists' questions on the FAZ reporting, saying that "absolutely nothing will change in our commitment and decisiveness in supporting Ukraine." Suggesting otherwise would be "almost defamatory," he said.

---

---

Now you are what you just accused me of doing. "This is like MTG"

As I said, its bookmarked. No need to get into it. Just don't call me a liar when I pull actual receipts in a few months.

---

A government spokesperson != one random member of the government

The guy in the quote is giving the official government position...

---

Sure, but its willful ignorance to ignore what is being said in private about future plans. Do you disagree with that statement?

---

Depends.

But, there are plenty of members of every political party in every country that say things in private that have nothing to do with how the government will actually act.

There are members of the GOP that want no money to go to Ukraine. It's good to listen so that you understand that faction of the party.

But, the OFFICIAL party position is that money will go to Ukraine. Knowing what those others think changes nothing about the actual outcome.

---

I agree with everything here. Which is why my assertion isn't based solely on the leak- but also the cuts already being made.

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-ukraine-military-aid-2026/a-69984998

---

That is just saying that Germany is going to fund Ukraine a different way, but that they are STILL going to fund them.

The rest is just fear mongering that they MAY cut aid. Just like here when all the politicians whined about Ukraine aid being the most important thing since oxygen. But, there was nothing in that that stated they are GOING to cut aid, just speculation and hissy fits.

---

I disagree with your framing but we both recognize nothing is decided yet.

From where I sit, last month German govt approved a budget that would cut Uke aid in half. That, plus this funding change, is a much different song than "as much for as long as it takes," which was their old stance.

I don't think its wrong to recognize the change in their tune.

This is the article I recalled from last month: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0kr91zqp0lo

---

They said the other half will come from the frozen Russian assets. They did not say they were cutting the amount of aid - just changing how it is paid for. Budget games happen all the time.

---

From the BBC article I linked:
"The planned aid cut comes amid fears in Ukraine and among its European allies that US funds could be slashed or even stopped if Donald Trump wins the presidency in November's election."

If the aid wasn't being cut as you asserted, then they would use the gains from seized assets to increase their total expenditure on aid.

Creative accounting is not changing the reality: Germany can't afford it.

---

That is the amount cut from the budget...
they point out later in the same article that the cut amount will be made up with the Russian funds...

The Germans are saying they'll spend the same amount as they would have. Your claim has them spending MORE then they had said they would...

---

Thank you for finally admitting Germans are cutting aid.

---

You're obviously not understanding what I'm saying.

The amount of aid will NOT be cut. The amount of money Germany allocates from their budget will be cut.

So, the same amount of materiel goes to Ukraine, but Russia will pay for half of it.

Another idea floated is to also use dividends from Russian assets to pay for an overall larger loan to Ukraine as well. For example, $50 billion loan and then it's paid annually by dividend payments. I think Latvia is pushing this idea.

Either way, that money will be used to kill Russians, which is ironic.

Ag with kids said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Teslag said:

---

And re-affirmed just yesterday...

https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2024/08/20/germany-affirms-ukraine-military-aid-amid-budget-maneuvering/

Quote:

---

Speaking at a press conference on Monday, government spokesperson Wolfgang Bchner countered journalists' questions on the FAZ reporting, saying that "absolutely nothing will change in our commitment and decisiveness in supporting Ukraine." Suggesting otherwise would be "almost defamatory," he said.

---

---

Now you are what you just accused me of doing. "This is like MTG"

As I said, its bookmarked. No need to get into it. Just don't call me a liar when I pull actual receipts in a few months.

---

A government spokesperson != one random member of the government

The guy in the quote is giving the official government position...

---

Sure, but its willful ignorance to ignore what is being said in private about future plans. Do you disagree with that statement?

---

Depends.

But, there are plenty of members of every political party in every country that say things in private that have nothing to do with how the government will actually act.

There are members of the GOP that want no money to go to Ukraine. It's good to listen so that you understand that faction of the party.

But, the OFFICIAL party position is that money will go to Ukraine. Knowing what those others think changes nothing about the actual outcome.

---

I agree with everything here. Which is why my assertion isn't based solely on the leak- but also the cuts already being made.

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-ukraine-military-aid-2026/a-69984998

---

That is just saying that Germany is going to fund Ukraine a different way, but that they are STILL going to fund them.

The rest is just fear mongering that they MAY cut aid. Just like here when all the politicians whined about Ukraine aid being the most important thing since oxygen. But, there was nothing in that that stated they are GOING to cut aid, just speculation and hissy fits.

---

I disagree with your framing but we both recognize nothing is decided yet.

From where I sit, last month German govt approved a budget that would cut Uke aid in half. That, plus this funding change, is a much different song than "as much for as long as it takes," which was their old stance.

I don't think its wrong to recognize the change in their tune.

This is the article I recalled from last month: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0kr91zqp0lo

---

They said the other half will come from the frozen Russian assets. They did not say they were cutting the amount of aid - just changing how it is paid for. Budget games happen all the time.

---

From the BBC article I linked:
"The planned aid cut comes amid fears in Ukraine and among its European allies that US funds could be slashed or even stopped if Donald Trump wins the presidency in November's election."

If the aid wasn't being cut as you asserted, then they would use the gains from seized assets to increase their total expenditure on aid.

Creative accounting is not changing the reality: Germany can't afford it.

---

That is the amount cut from the budget...
they point out later in the same article that the cut amount will be made up with the Russian funds...

The Germans are saying they'll spend the same amount as they would have. Your claim has them spending MORE then they had said they would...

---

Thank you for finally admitting Germans are cutting aid.

---

You're obviously not understanding what I'm saying.

The amount of aid will NOT be cut. The amount of money Germany allocates from their budget will be cut.

So, the same amount of materiel goes to Ukraine, but Russia will pay for half of it.

---

Teslag said:

---

OPAG said:

---

Teslag said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Bookmarked.

---

You did this before when you kept asking for updates on the aid package... until it was approved as promised. The defense industry always gets what it wants.

---

In a few just post above this, you said "Germany will fund whatever we tell them to fund,"


It is good to hear you confirm whom you are really with and for in this conflict. the MID, Basically part of the NWO, the cabal, and such. The same ones who just want war for their own profit and power.

---

Yep. I'm with United States and her industry and workers. The same ones that won WW2.

---

I think I will side with the President and General who led our efforts in that same WWII

Ag with kids said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Teslag said:

---

And re-affirmed just yesterday...

https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2024/08/20/germany-affirms-ukraine-military-aid-amid-budget-maneuvering/

Quote:

---

Speaking at a press conference on Monday, government spokesperson Wolfgang Bchner countered journalists' questions on the FAZ reporting, saying that "absolutely nothing will change in our commitment and decisiveness in supporting Ukraine." Suggesting otherwise would be "almost defamatory," he said.

---

---

Now you are what you just accused me of doing. "This is like MTG"

As I said, its bookmarked. No need to get into it. Just don't call me a liar when I pull actual receipts in a few months.

---

A government spokesperson != one random member of the government

The guy in the quote is giving the official government position...

---

Sure, but its willful ignorance to ignore what is being said in private about future plans. Do you disagree with that statement?

---

Depends.

But, there are plenty of members of every political party in every country that say things in private that have nothing to do with how the government will actually act.

There are members of the GOP that want no money to go to Ukraine. It's good to listen so that you understand that faction of the party.

But, the OFFICIAL party position is that money will go to Ukraine. Knowing what those others think changes nothing about the actual outcome.

---

I agree with everything here. Which is why my assertion isn't based solely on the leak- but also the cuts already being made.

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-ukraine-military-aid-2026/a-69984998

---

That is just saying that Germany is going to fund Ukraine a different way, but that they are STILL going to fund them.

The rest is just fear mongering that they MAY cut aid. Just like here when all the politicians whined about Ukraine aid being the most important thing since oxygen. But, there was nothing in that that stated they are GOING to cut aid, just speculation and hissy fits.

---

I disagree with your framing but we both recognize nothing is decided yet.

From where I sit, last month German govt approved a budget that would cut Uke aid in half. That, plus this funding change, is a much different song than "as much for as long as it takes," which was their old stance.

I don't think its wrong to recognize the change in their tune.

This is the article I recalled from last month: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0kr91zqp0lo

---

They said the other half will come from the frozen Russian assets. They did not say they were cutting the amount of aid - just changing how it is paid for. Budget games happen all the time.

---

From the BBC article I linked:
"The planned aid cut comes amid fears in Ukraine and among its European allies that US funds could be slashed or even stopped if Donald Trump wins the presidency in November's election."

If the aid wasn't being cut as you asserted, then they would use the gains from seized assets to increase their total expenditure on aid.

Creative accounting is not changing the reality: Germany can't afford it.

---

That is the amount cut from the budget...
they point out later in the same article that the cut amount will be made up with the Russian funds...

The Germans are saying they'll spend the same amount as they would have. Your claim has them spending MORE then they had said they would...

---

Thank you for finally admitting Germans are cutting aid.

---

You're obviously not understanding what I'm saying.

The amount of aid will NOT be cut. The amount of money Germany allocates from their budget will be cut.

So, the same amount of materiel goes to Ukraine, but Russia will pay for half of it.

---

So I'm correct, the amount of aid being paid for by Germany has been cut in half because Germany can't afford this war.

As I said before, they've completely pivoted from their old stance: "as much and as long as it takes"

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Teslag said:

---

And re-affirmed just yesterday...

https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2024/08/20/germany-affirms-ukraine-military-aid-amid-budget-maneuvering/

Quote:

---

Speaking at a press conference on Monday, government spokesperson Wolfgang Bchner countered journalists' questions on the FAZ reporting, saying that "absolutely nothing will change in our commitment and decisiveness in supporting Ukraine." Suggesting otherwise would be "almost defamatory," he said.

---

---

Now you are what you just accused me of doing. "This is like MTG"

As I said, its bookmarked. No need to get into it. Just don't call me a liar when I pull actual receipts in a few months.

---

A government spokesperson != one random member of the government

The guy in the quote is giving the official government position...

---

Sure, but its willful ignorance to ignore what is being said in private about future plans. Do you disagree with that statement?

---

Depends.

But, there are plenty of members of every political party in every country that say things in private that have nothing to do with how the government will actually act.

There are members of the GOP that want no money to go to Ukraine. It's good to listen so that you understand that faction of the party.

But, the OFFICIAL party position is that money will go to Ukraine. Knowing what those others think changes nothing about the actual outcome.

---

I agree with everything here. Which is why my assertion isn't based solely on the leak- but also the cuts already being made.

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-ukraine-military-aid-2026/a-69984998

---

That is just saying that Germany is going to fund Ukraine a different way, but that they are STILL going to fund them.

The rest is just fear mongering that they MAY cut aid. Just like here when all the politicians whined about Ukraine aid being the most important thing since oxygen. But, there was nothing in that that stated they are GOING to cut aid, just speculation and hissy fits.

---

I disagree with your framing but we both recognize nothing is decided yet.

From where I sit, last month German govt approved a budget that would cut Uke aid in half. That, plus this funding change, is a much different song than "as much for as long as it takes," which was their old stance.

I don't think its wrong to recognize the change in their tune.

This is the article I recalled from last month: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0kr91zqp0lo

---

They said the other half will come from the frozen Russian assets. They did not say they were cutting the amount of aid - just changing how it is paid for. Budget games happen all the time.

---

From the BBC article I linked:
"The planned aid cut comes amid fears in Ukraine and among its European allies that US funds could be slashed or even stopped if Donald Trump wins the presidency in November's election."

If the aid wasn't being cut as you asserted, then they would use the gains from seized assets to increase their total expenditure on aid.

Creative accounting is not changing the reality: Germany can't afford it.

---

That is the amount cut from the budget...
they point out later in the same article that the cut amount will be made up with the Russian funds...

The Germans are saying they'll spend the same amount as they would have. Your claim has them spending MORE then they had said they would...

---

Thank you for finally admitting Germans are cutting aid.

---

You're obviously not understanding what I'm saying.

The amount of aid will NOT be cut. The amount of money Germany allocates from their budget will be cut.

So, the same amount of materiel goes to Ukraine, but Russia will pay for half of it.

---

So I'm correct, the amount of aid being paid for by Germany has been cut in half because Germany can't afford this war.

As I said before, they've completely pivoted from their old stance: "as much and as long as it takes"

---

Nope, that is incorrect. As the official German government spokesman said yesterday.

There isn't one. It's a lie as far as I can see, to the extent the claim is that now Russian assets will be seized directly instead of profits from interest on those assets, to make up for German 'aid' cuts to the Kiev regime. There's no evidence, anywhere cited, this is the case. The interest/profits were already being used as of June (or earlier) per my link.

Onward:

🇷🇺🇺🇦 Chronicles of the Special Military Operation
for August 20, 2024

Russian forces struck enemy military facilities in Hlukhiv, Sumy Region, where a substation was also hit. In addition, a drone strike hit an oil depot in Ternopil.

At the same time, the elimination of the… pic.twitter.com/sjKKtrpOLg

— Rybar Force (@rybar_force) August 20, 2024

And we've arrived at the "nuh-uh" defense. Where is the arrive detailing your claim for this new plan?

German finance ministry already back tracking

Quote:

---

The finance ministry said later on Monday: "Germany stands firmly by Ukraine's side and is Ukraine's biggest supporter in Europe, financially, economically and militarily." It added that this support would continue "as long as necessary".

---

https://www.ft.com/content/35913185-0bb7-4a5c-84ee-756623743d37

Do you have anything detailing the asset seizure you mentioned?

It's also worth noting that no Ukrainian aid has been decided for 2025. So any definitive statements about future aid at this time, by either side, are merely conjecture.

Just like when people assumed the US would halt our aid. It was never going to happen. There's too many hands in this cookie jar. Same in Europe.

Is that kind of like saying "as much, as long as it takes"?

GAC06 said:

---

Is that kind of like saying "as much, as long as it takes"?

---

Exactly.

Devastating

GAC06 said:

---

Devastating

---

Isn't it?

Back in December we were told this war would be over in weeks. And here we are.

We were told US would stop funding Ukraine, then a massive aid package was passed, as promised.

Then we were told Russia was getting larger every day. Then Ukraine gained more of Russia in two weeks than Russia gained in Ukraine in the last year.

I said at one point before Ukraine's failed offensive that Ukraine would push to the Sea of Azov. I was flat wrong.

It's amazing how much time we waste on this thread, myself included, and yet after over two years nothing has materially changed for either side.

Teslag said:

---

It's also worth noting that no Ukrainian aid has been decided for 2025. So any definitive statements about future aid at this time, by either side, are merely conjecture.

Just like when people assumed the US would halt our aid. It was never going to happen. There's too many hands in this cookie jar. Same in Europe.

---

Straw man about US aid under Biden familia.

Germany sent around 8 billion this year (if all delivered, ultimately), and is slated to deliver half as much next year. It's that simple. Reflexive around older decisions around interest payments/profits on Russian assets doesn't change that. Germany is now working to build back their relations/trade with Russians for natural gas.
Meanwhile, distrust grows;

Germany was unable to secure the arrest of a Ukrainian suspect in the sabotage of the Nord Stream pipelines by Poland.

Polish prosecutors publicly stated that they did not immediately arrest the suspect because the Germans failed to enter his address into the European registry,… pic.twitter.com/hXbazIKHpA

— Olga Bazova (@OlgaBazova) August 20, 2024

Some of this is starting to make me think it is a setup for a bigger problem in January for a new US POTUS.

Quote:

---

and is slated to deliver half as much next year.

---

False. Germany has not finalized a 2025 budget, and corresponding aid amounts yet.

Teslag said:

---

GAC06 said:

---

Devastating

---

Isn't it?

Back in December we were told this war would be over in weeks. And here we are.

We were told US would stop funding Ukraine, then a massive aid package was passed, as promised.

Then we were told Russia was getting larger every day. Then Ukraine gained more of Russia in two weeks than Russia gained in Ukraine in the last year.

I said at one point before Ukraine's failed offensive that Ukraine would push to the Sea of Azov. I was flat wrong.

It's amazing how much time we waste on this thread, myself included, and yet after over two years nothing has materially changed for either side.

---

I would say that Russia being invaded for the first time since 1941 is a material change. Or, that this is the first time that a nuclear power has been invaded. I think that's material.

So we have no proof of the "new plan" for asset seizure?

It was made up?

We have proof that they passed a draft budget cutting German aid in half.

I strongly disagree that nothing has materially changed in the past two years. Ukraine has been demographically and economically decimated. The only interesting aspect to the war at this point is whether there is a further 'play' which might hurt Trump in his second term.

The Nato European allies are just tired of the war/costs, as is obvious.

I never realized that. We were also told Russia was stronger. Stronger countries don't get invaded.

nortex97 said:

---

I strongly disagree that nothing has materially changed in the past two years. Ukraine has been demographically and economically decimated. The only interesting aspect to the war at this point is whether there is a further 'play' which might hurt Trump in his second term.

The Nato European allies are just tired of the war/costs, as is obvious.

---

Everyone is tired of this war and costs. Everyone but Putin, who could end it tomorrow if he wanted.

Teslag said:

---

Quote:

---

and is slated to deliver half as much next year.

---

False. Germany has not finalized a 2025 budget, and corresponding aid amounts yet.

---

Could you share some information on the asset seizure plan you previously touted? Or at least admit you made it up? Google can find nothing of the sort and its quite suspicious you're ignoring my requests for more information.

nortex97 said:

---

I strongly disagree that nothing has materially changed in the past two years. Ukraine has been demographically and economically decimated. The only interesting aspect to the war at this point is whether there is a further 'play' which might hurt Trump in his second term.

The Nato European allies are just tired of the war/costs, as is obvious.

---

Decimated has an actual meaning. They are not cut down anywhere near 10% strength in any way shape or form. Or even remotely close.

AND, they have the west willing to help keep them afloat, posts on this thread notwithstanding...

Teslag said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

I strongly disagree that nothing has materially changed in the past two years. Ukraine has been demographically and economically decimated. The only interesting aspect to the war at this point is whether there is a further 'play' which might hurt Trump in his second term.

The Nato European allies are just tired of the war/costs, as is obvious.

---

Everyone is tired of this war and costs. Everyone but Putin, who could end it tomorrow if he wanted.

---

This. Times 10.

Ag with kids said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

I strongly disagree that nothing has materially changed in the past two years. Ukraine has been demographically and economically decimated. The only interesting aspect to the war at this point is whether there is a further 'play' which might hurt Trump in his second term.

The Nato European allies are just tired of the war/costs, as is obvious.

---

Decimated has an actual meaning. They are not cut down anywhere near 10% strength in any way shape or form. Or even remotely close.

AND, they have the west willing to help keep them afloat, posts on this thread notwithstanding...

---

Except in power generation/transmission. Uke might even have less than 10% of pre-war capacity after all of the Russian strikes.

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

I strongly disagree that nothing has materially changed in the past two years. Ukraine has been demographically and economically decimated. The only interesting aspect to the war at this point is whether there is a further 'play' which might hurt Trump in his second term.

The Nato European allies are just tired of the war/costs, as is obvious.

---

Decimated has an actual meaning. They are not cut down anywhere near 10% strength in any way shape or form. Or even remotely close.

AND, they have the west willing to help keep them afloat, posts on this thread notwithstanding...

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Except in power generation/transmission. Uke might even have less than 10% of pre-war capacity after all of the Russian strikes.

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Could you provide a link for this assertion?

Ag with kids said:

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Ag with kids said:

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nortex97 said:

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I strongly disagree that nothing has materially changed in the past two years. Ukraine has been demographically and economically decimated. The only interesting aspect to the war at this point is whether there is a further 'play' which might hurt Trump in his second term.

The Nato European allies are just tired of the war/costs, as is obvious.

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Decimated has an actual meaning. They are not cut down anywhere near 10% strength in any way shape or form. Or even remotely close.

AND, they have the west willing to help keep them afloat, posts on this thread notwithstanding...

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Except in power generation/transmission. Uke might even have less than 10% of pre-war capacity after all of the Russian strikes.

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Could you provide a link for this assertion?

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Arestovich is more knowledgeable than any of the posters here as to the grid's shape, I'd say:

Quote:

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"Arestovich recorded a video in which he announced the complete collapse of the Ukrainian energy system in 2-3 Russian missile strikes. Now Ukraine still has a nuclear power plant and an energy bridge with Europe. But Russia can destroy all this with two or three missile strikes, literally throwing the whole country back to the 17th century in a couple of days. Only the village will survive, the lighting will be from splinters. Winter will drive hundreds of thousands of people out of the cities and the whole country will be engaged in survival, not war. Russia, according to him, simply feels sorry for ordinary farmers."

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Anyway, there's no point in debating numbers with folks who want to believe 'all is well' in Ukraine, from an industrial or manpower perspective. My belief is simply that they are literally out of younger military age males to 'recruit' who are able bodied, so they have to now lower draft age to 18 and are scraping for elderly/females to force to the front line. This is easily documented for folks who want to go look. And it's Syrsky, after all, who have lamented that Russia on the other hand is adding around 150K a quarter to their forces in theater.

Quote:

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At Zelensky's headquarters yesterday in the Kharkov region, Syrsky voiced one very interesting thing - the Russian Armed Forces are increasing the number of troops in the Ukrainian theater of operations by 150-170 thousand people every 3 months.

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🇺🇦🇷🇺 Russians could take over the whole Donbass, says SkyNews. https://t.co/Opvjh1cPul pic.twitter.com/SPjITDUCKI

— Lord Bebo (@MyLordBebo) August 20, 2024

How Russia Fights Part 2.3: The Battalion Tactical Group in 2024

Something occurred to me yesterday while reading coverage of the ongoing battle on the Kursk border.

The Russians only sent in one heavy brigade - the 810th Marines - and it's covering a 70km front. How? BTGs!⬇️… pic.twitter.com/SpvNPe8a19

— Armchair Warlord (@ArmchairW) August 21, 2024

What is happening in Europe?
The G7 was supposed to deliver $50 billion to Ukraine by September.
But what happened?
The EU, Germany & France went to sleep (as usual) so nothing happened.
At present, only Italy & Poland of the big EU countries appear to stand up for Ukraine.

— Anders Åslund (@anders_aslund) August 20, 2024

Quote:

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nyway, there's no point in debating numbers with folks who want to believe 'all is well' in Ukraine, from an industrial or manpower perspective. My belief is simply that they are literally out of younger military age males to 'recruit' who are able bodied, so they have to now lower draft age to 18 and are scraping for elderly/females to force to the front line.

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As Russia is currently being invaded and routed because their defenses are made up of prisoners and former convicts….

Make up whatever you need to feel good, but I haven't seen females fighting for Russia.

More Ukrainian POWs in Kursk including a woman. pic.twitter.com/Y7gIHXcxGL

— ayden (@squatsons) August 16, 2024