Thx, I agree. Really, we sort of have a 'state within a state' if you factor in State/CIA controlling so much of the subterfuge, even obviously including the Trump I presidency. Add on the layer of Biden familia being a controlled party of the CCP/China, and it becomes very complex, over time.

It is a lot of 'gray areas' indeed, especially when considering China's spies/arrests/influence on various parties in Europe as well over the past 10 years. Pretty damn tough to see how all of 'our' meddling in Ukraine has helped the people of Ukraine since Biden sort of became point man in 2014, nominally, for the whole operation.

FJB24 said:

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Tucker published an interview with Dugin. Did this thread just die? War's over?

Ep. 99 Aleksandr Dugin is the most famous political philosopher in Russia. His ideas are considered so dangerous, the Ukrainian government murdered his daughter and Amazon won’t sell his books. We talked to him in Moscow. pic.twitter.com/4LrO0Ufg9P

— Tucker Carlson (@TuckerCarlson) April 29, 2024

---

This is a must listen too. Totally spot on. Really nails the real issue at hand here

The antichrist progressive liberal Biden, Obama, Schuab, Soro- progressive liberal west, hatred of Putin and Russia. This is the real deal.

100% agree with your point, but don't forget the GOP either. The roll the ****ing red carpet out for these folks to do what they do. Very little balance or opposition to offset the players you mentioned. No action is an action.

Teslag said:

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http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/66181

Here you go. Read it yourself. I won't do one of your petty back and forths in an effort to derail. You wanted the source, I gave it to you.

---

You didn't read it. Well maybe you did but your neocon delusions blinded you to what is actually articulated here.

Kind of funny how your own "proof" just shows your inability to comprehend.

Like I said, you are free to take a violent former KGB officer and current dictator's words however you wish. I for one think when someone like that tells me they have grand imperialist visions I tend to take them at face value.

No different than those in D.C.

Ah yes, the everyone is equally as evil as Vladimir Putin bit. I love this one.

Grapes said:

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Teslag said:

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http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/66181

Here you go. Read it yourself. I won't do one of your petty back and forths in an effort to derail. You wanted the source, I gave it to you.

---

You didn't read it. Well maybe you did but your neocon delusions blinded you to what is actually articulated here.

Kind of funny how your own "proof" just shows your inability to comprehend.

---

How about you let us know what you think is "actually articulated here" by Putin, since you're so sure he has it wrong.

Sorry if this has already been posted.
RFK Jr plainly blames the war in Ukraine on Biden.

RFK Jr. illuminates the roots of the Ukraine conflict and America’s long-term involvement.

Mr. Kennedy clarifies why he believes the U.S. must strive to end the bloodshed, rather than perpetuating the war.#rfkjr #russia #ukraine pic.twitter.com/uvI2j7x4bT

— Robert F. Kennedy Jr (@RobertKennedyJr) May 1, 2024

RFK is an idiot. Putin doesn't claim to want to negotiate every day. He also said "In '92 the Berlin Wall came down...". It was taken down in 1989. Gorbechev has said that he never had an agreement for NATO never move east, so he just pulled that from his ass. He then says we "we took 15 countries into NATO in 1997 and surrounded the Soviet Union". The Soviet Union fell in 1991. And the rest of the treaty stuff is just Russian fan fiction. Dude is all over the place with incorrect dates, wrong countries, and quoting things people never said.

So much for considering RFK for my vote.

Dude, it's long.

In simplest terms, he believes Ukraine has be co-opted and corrupted by western powers looking to steal their land and resources.

Russia and Ukraine have an extraordinarily long history of being one people, language, religion and blood. Ukrainians were better off before the 2014 coup, and since then have been in a civil war. Western allies vs Russian allies. Fomented by western attempts to divide Ukrainians. The pathway to a free and prosperous Ukraine is thru Russia.

Not so complicated.

And before you put words in my mouth, those are not my words of agreement.

Teslag said:

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RFK is an idiot. Putin doesn't claim to want to negotiate every day. He also said "In '92 the Berlin Wall came down...". It was taken down in 1989. Gorbechev has said that he never had an agreement for NATO never move east, so he just pulled that from his ass. He then says we "we took 15 countries into NATO in 1997 and surrounded the Soviet Union". The Soviet Union fell in 1991. And the rest of the treaty stuff is just Russian fan fiction. Dude is all over the place with incorrect dates, wrong countries, and quoting things people never said.

---

I'm sure you love the Bush's. George is that you?

Another thing I would like to point out.: It has been said that the US government can walk and chew gum at the same time. This was and remains the token response to any variation of "we should not fund Ukraine because effort would be better spent elsewhere"

But the facts remain

Tulsi Gabbard and Joe Rogan noting the victims of the Lahaina fire received less support from the Biden administration than illegals or Ukraine:
JR: "The most insulting thing was the $700 one time payment from the government. At the same time where they accidentally sent Ukraine… pic.twitter.com/z8ka0ddITF

— Eric Abbenante (@EricAbbenante) May 1, 2024

At least we don't have those mean tweets.

Tulsi is a moron

https://apnews.com/article/maui-wildfires-hawaii-fema-misinformation-8562e2e81e03626acc5be30700d73120

Quote:

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But disaster recovery experts and lawyers stress accepting aid doesn't give FEMA any such powers to take private lands and that the posts are misrepresenting federal law. Here are the facts.

CLAIM: FEMA can seize the private property of any Maui resident that signs up for disaster assistance.

THE FACTS: The federal agency says the claims are "absolutely false" and encourages Hawaiians to visit a website it launched recently to address rumors and frequently asked questions in the aftermath of the fires, which have claimed more than 100 lives.

---

Grapes said:

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Dude, it's long.

In simplest terms, he believes Ukraine has be co-opted and corrupted by western powers looking to steal their land and resources.

Russia and Ukraine have an extraordinarily long history of being one people, language, religion and blood. Ukrainians were better off before the 2014 coup, and since then have been in a civil war. Western allies vs Russian allies. Fomented by western attempts to divide Ukrainians. The pathway to a free and prosperous Ukraine is thru Russia.

Not so complicated.

And before you put words in my mouth, those are not my words of agreement.

---

Thanks for the summary of his thoughts. Seems wildly out of place with how the recent elections have gone, not to mention if he was correct about the vast majority of Ukrainians being better off as a part of Russia, they sure are fighting back pretty hard to avoid that.

But it also shows why the best path to a ceasefire is still Ukraine giving up on the Donbas and Crimea (since those seem to clearly be the most pro-Russia parts) and having what's left get admitted into NATO.

It's odd. The people that want the "deal" never seem to tell us what Russia gives up in any negotiation…

Teslag said:

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It's odd. The people that want the "deal" never seem to tell us what Russia gives up in any negotiation…

---

They give up killing Ukrainians first and foremost. Easily worth it. I'm guessing that's not high on your list though.

I may be wrong but I believe they've moved beyond the lines laid out in the peace talks in Turkey. Maybe they back up to their and rebuild what's been destroyed.

We'll never know at this rate.

J. Walter Weatherman said:

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Grapes said:

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Dude, it's long.

In simplest terms, he believes Ukraine has be co-opted and corrupted by western powers looking to steal their land and resources.

Russia and Ukraine have an extraordinarily long history of being one people, language, religion and blood. Ukrainians were better off before the 2014 coup, and since then have been in a civil war. Western allies vs Russian allies. Fomented by western attempts to divide Ukrainians. The pathway to a free and prosperous Ukraine is thru Russia.

Not so complicated.

And before you put words in my mouth, those are not my words of agreement.

---

Thanks for the summary of his thoughts. Seems wildly out of place with how the recent elections have gone, not to mention if he was correct about the vast majority of Ukrainians being better off as a part of Russia, they sure are fighting back pretty hard to avoid that.

But it also shows why the best path to a ceasefire is still Ukraine giving up on the Donbas and Crimea (since those seem to clearly be the most pro-Russia parts) and having what's left get admitted into NATO.

---

What do you mean by "wildly out of place with how recent elections have gone"?

I suppose the dead Ukranians may prefer when they were more neutral and note provoking the Russian's.

Quote:

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They give up killing Ukrainians first and foremost. Easily worth it. I'm guessing that's not high on your list though.

---

So Russia gets everything they want and in return they don't kill Ukrainians and Ukraine gets nothing else?



That's not a deal. It's just unconditional surrender. But at least you've finally admitted you aren't interested in a real deal.

Teslag said:

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Quote:

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They give up killing Ukrainians first and foremost. Easily worth it. I'm guessing that's not high on your list though.

---

So Russia gets everything they want and in return they don't kill Ukrainians and Ukraine gets nothing else?



That's not a deal. It's just unconditional surrender. But at least you've finally admitted you aren't interested in a real deal.

---

Who knows what is possible if Ukraine could ever actually be free?

Russia didn't take Crimea until the US led coup which threatened Russia's historical access to the Black Sea.

They didn't invade until it became clear Ukraine was going to join NATO.

If they had been left alone by the West all those Ukrainian's would probably be alive. Again, I don't think you care about that.

It seems your rational leaves only two outcomes. One, Russia to lose and Ukraine be stolen by the "west" or two Russia wins and they rule Ukraine.

To me, one seems like it may lead to nukes which isn't ideal.

Ukraine is a sovereign nation and free to join any alliance they wish. And one country is threatening to "not kill all the Ukrainians" as part of a deal and the other is offering membership in a pact to prevent that why act so surprised when Ukraine makes the obvious choice?

Ukraine can't be stolen because they never belonged to Russia.

Quote:

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If they had been left alone by the West all those Ukrainian's would probably be alive.

---

If Putin had not invaded in a pure land grab they would also be alive.

Teslag said:

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Tulsi is a moron

https://apnews.com/article/maui-wildfires-hawaii-fema-misinformation-8562e2e81e03626acc5be30700d73120

Quote:

---

But disaster recovery experts and lawyers stress accepting aid doesn't give FEMA any such powers to take private lands and that the posts are misrepresenting federal law. Here are the facts.

CLAIM: FEMA can seize the private property of any Maui resident that signs up for disaster assistance.

THE FACTS: The federal agency says the claims are "absolutely false" and encourages Hawaiians to visit a website it launched recently to address rumors and frequently asked questions in the aftermath of the fires, which have claimed more than 100 lives.

---

---

Who claimed that? Tulsi didn't. But otherwise this is an exceptional ad hom.

This is literally from your Twitter link...

Quote:

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Tulsi then highlights how the $700 payment cedes the rights of land ownership to the government.

---

Teslag said:

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Ukraine is a sovereign nation

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An objectively false statement. No interpretation required.

PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Teslag said:

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Ukraine is a sovereign nation

---

An objectively false statement. No interpretation required.

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I see we are trolling again. I think I'll just put you on ignore the next 24 hours. Have fun derailing yourself.

Teslag said:

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Teslag said:

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Ukraine is a sovereign nation

---

An objectively false statement. No interpretation required.

---

I see we are trolling again. I think I'll just put you on ignore the next 24 hours. Have fun trolling your self.

---

I'd rather you use a permanent ignore. You're the only troll here.

Can't see anything you typed.

Teslag said:

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Quote:

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If they had been left alone by the West all those Ukrainian's would probably be alive.

---

If Putin had not invaded in a pure land grab they would also be alive.

---

"pure land grab"?

pure land grab
total land grab
simple land grab


Pick whichever you want. Putin wanted Ukraine to be a part of Russia (as his essay outlines). NATO is an excuse. Always has been.

Grapes said:

---

Teslag said:

---

Quote:

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If they had been left alone by the West all those Ukrainian's would probably be alive.

---

If Putin had not invaded in a pure land grab they would also be alive.

---

"pure land grab"?

---

I'm not sure. Maybe she means as opposed to the land grabs that didn't save themselves for marriage? Hopefully you get an answer.

Grapes said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

Grapes said:

---

Dude, it's long.

In simplest terms, he believes Ukraine has be co-opted and corrupted by western powers looking to steal their land and resources.

Russia and Ukraine have an extraordinarily long history of being one people, language, religion and blood. Ukrainians were better off before the 2014 coup, and since then have been in a civil war. Western allies vs Russian allies. Fomented by western attempts to divide Ukrainians. The pathway to a free and prosperous Ukraine is thru Russia.

Not so complicated.

And before you put words in my mouth, those are not my words of agreement.

---

Thanks for the summary of his thoughts. Seems wildly out of place with how the recent elections have gone, not to mention if he was correct about the vast majority of Ukrainians being better off as a part of Russia, they sure are fighting back pretty hard to avoid that.

But it also shows why the best path to a ceasefire is still Ukraine giving up on the Donbas and Crimea (since those seem to clearly be the most pro-Russia parts) and having what's left get admitted into NATO.

---

What do you mean by "wildly out of place with how recent elections have gone"?

I suppose the dead Ukranians may prefer when they were more neutral and note provoking the Russian's.

---

I'm sure they would prefer Russia never invaded, which is 100% the fault of Russia.

If the majority of Ukraine wanted to be a Russian puppet state then they wouldn't have 1. Run the pro Russia puppet leader out of the country. And 2. Elected Zelensky by 75% of the vote in 2019 and instead reinstalled a different pro Russia puppet leader. No matter what you think "the west's" role is in the initial actions, Ukraine's people clearly didn't want to go back to the glory days of living under Russia's thumb. Which is also why they continue to fight to keep them out.

I choose to believe that actual Ukrainians know what's best for them, not Putin. And definitely not a bunch of random posters on a college football message board.

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

Grapes said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

Grapes said:

---

Dude, it's long.

In simplest terms, he believes Ukraine has be co-opted and corrupted by western powers looking to steal their land and resources.

Russia and Ukraine have an extraordinarily long history of being one people, language, religion and blood. Ukrainians were better off before the 2014 coup, and since then have been in a civil war. Western allies vs Russian allies. Fomented by western attempts to divide Ukrainians. The pathway to a free and prosperous Ukraine is thru Russia.

Not so complicated.

And before you put words in my mouth, those are not my words of agreement.

---

Thanks for the summary of his thoughts. Seems wildly out of place with how the recent elections have gone, not to mention if he was correct about the vast majority of Ukrainians being better off as a part of Russia, they sure are fighting back pretty hard to avoid that.

But it also shows why the best path to a ceasefire is still Ukraine giving up on the Donbas and Crimea (since those seem to clearly be the most pro-Russia parts) and having what's left get admitted into NATO.

---

What do you mean by "wildly out of place with how recent elections have gone"?

I suppose the dead Ukranians may prefer when they were more neutral and note provoking the Russian's.

---

I'm sure they would prefer Russia never invaded, which is 100% the fault of Russia.

If the majority of Ukraine wanted to be a Russian puppet state then they wouldn't have 1. Run the pro Russia puppet leader out of the country. And 2. Elected Zelensky by 75% of the vote in 2019 and instead reinstalled a different pro Russia puppet leader. No matter what you think "the west's" role is in the initial actions, Ukraine's people clearly didn't want to go back to the glory days of living under Russia's thumb. Which is also why they continue to fight to keep them out.

I choose to believe that actual Ukrainians know what's best for them, not Putin. And definitely not a bunch of random posters on a college football message board.

---

Meanwhile, in reality, Ukraine lowers the age at which they can require their citizens to die in the war.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-conscription-mobilization-251058a942a253f3eaec2c53373adf03