Russia/Ukraine from Another Perspective (Relaunch Part Deux)

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In reply to docb • 3:05p, 4/16/24
AG
He is talking about China but Scholtz is no friend either, hard core socialist pushing those policies through Europe. German gets a lot of O&G from Russia even though they said they wouldn't
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nortex97
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In reply to docb • 3:08p, 4/16/24
AG
docb said:
nortex97 said:
Yep.

And our enemies grow stronger.



Forever war, comrades!
Since when is Germany our enemy?
Mainly China, but after all, Merkel's alliance with Russia for energy made it clear where their priorities lay, right? Notice he is over there begging for their help right now.

You'd be hard pressed to find their 'elites' as expressing pro-American sentiments behind closed doors, propaganda aside.
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docb
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In reply to nortex97 • 3:21p, 4/16/24
AG
nortex97 said:
docb said:
nortex97 said:
Yep.

And our enemies grow stronger.



Forever war, comrades!
Since when is Germany our enemy?
Mainly China, but after all, Merkel's alliance with Russia for energy made it clear where their priorities lay, right? Notice he is over there begging for their help right now.

You'd be hard pressed to find their 'elites' as expressing pro-American sentiments behind closed doors, propaganda aside.
I hope it is just the opposite. It's time to re-arm Europe's largest economy to a level that has not been seen in a very long time.
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John Armfield
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In reply to nortex97 • 3:22p, 4/16/24
nortex97 said:
We don't have the ability to change the direction of this war without deploying absolutely a crap ton of stuff for WW3.

Insert:


Regardless, this bill won't do a damn thing (other than handing the gavel in the House to Jeffries).



Edit, wrong tweet. Sorry.
people mock MTG for wanting to get rid of Johnson smh
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nortex97
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9:56a, 4/17/24
AG
Are Ukrainians using the Abrams (and other) tanks wrong?



From Simplicius' update:
Quote:
He explains that in essence U.S. armored doctrine revolves around utilizing the armored vehicles in mutually supportive sections or groups, i.e. together, rather than one or two vehicles acting individually as is so often the case in Ukraine. He correctly identifies that the chief consequence of the modern proliferation of drones is the ability to concentrate fire extremely quickly. This means any tank unit comprised of multiple vehicles that's sitting bunched up will be very quickly targeted and taken out in a way that's unprecedented to the training and doctrines of just about every country of the world.
Sounds about right. The focus on a few older tanks, as with a few old F-16's having a significant impact is just a mistake.
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OPAG
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In reply to fullback44 • 10:59a, 4/17/24
AG
You are giving a lot of credit to a corrupt and morally depraved leadership that has absolutely no interest in the preservation of the US or the west. They want a global collapse so they can then launch their elite led one world government.

And furthermore, the real truth is the whole point of Ukraine and Russia was to divide and conquer US and western plebes who have been brought up and programmed with "better dead then red' from birth!

We should understand some things, why was there this huge RUSSIA, RUSSIA, RUSSIA bs when Trump was in office? Where did that come from? It was prove to be absolutely BS.

The reality is when the Soviet fell, they totally courted the west to be part of NATO and the western coalition. That is what they have really wanted for centuries going back to Fredrick the Great. They really wanted it back when the whole system fell. Unlike when we defeated Germany and Japan (and rebuilt them through the Marshall plan) We did the exact opposite with Russia.

Yet, every time it is the west that rejects them and then attacks them. This is historical fact and still is. We just left them and kept them as a 'useful enemy.' The corrupt elite and the Mil Industrial complex must have an enemy. And we have been so heavily programed (the boomers especially) that Russia is our forever enemy.

But that is not a useful narrative to the elite, corrupt cabal. They must have Russia remain an enemy. It divides the conservative Americans as well. We are so dumb!

It was our rejection of Russian that has forced them into a coalition with China and Iran. I have been to Russia, I know many Russians. They have no desire to be allied with China or Iran. They always wanted to be allied to the West, but it is the west that rejects them every time. THIS IS THE TRUTH!

So sad, so stupid, so demonic.
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nortex97
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In reply to OPAG • 11:20a, 4/17/24
AG
Correct.

The Brits obviously think we need to send stuff asap;



I am amused at this system, if nothing else. I thought it was just being used as a remote controlled minefield clearing solution;



Corruption is still rampant in Kiev:

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12:59p, 4/17/24
AG
Cue the "he's right, you know" meme's:



Again, Ukraine is a proxy war to cover up Biden Familia corruption. More comes out daily:



From RCP article released today:

Quote:
Alexander Vindman: He and Ciaramella raised alarms about Trump, not Biden.

Ciaramella's role including high-level discussions with top Biden aides and Ukrainian prosecutors is only now coming to light thanks to the recent release of White House emails and photos from the National Archives.

The emails show Ciaramella expressed shock "Yikes" is what he wrote at Biden's move to withhold the $1 billion in aid from Kyiv, which represented a sudden shift in U.S. policy. They also show he was drawn into White House communications over how to control adverse publicity from Hunter taking a lucrative seat on Burisma's board.

Yet there is no evidence Ciaramella raised alarms about the questionable Biden business activities he witnessed firsthand, which is in sharp contrast to 2019. In that instance, he was galvanized into action after being told by White House colleague Alexander Vindman of an "improper" phone call between President Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. During the call, Trump solicited Zelensky's help in investigating Burisma and Hunter Biden's role in the company.
From a political perspective regarding this bloody war, the Ciaramella-Vindman angle in the Biden-Trump war of words around Ukraine is fascinatingly clear, yet publicly never discussed.
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2:13p, 4/17/24
AG
Medvedev speech on 'strategic borders' from a Russian perspective is interesting.

Quote:
The speech presents a Russian view on the border concept along six theses.
Below are some excerpts which I believe deserve a further discussion:
Quote:
First. We don't need someone else's land. We will never give up on our own. So it was and so it will be. This is the principle that governs our state border policy.
…

Second. The presence of strategic borders outside their own territory today does not mean that strong and responsible countries intend to go to war with their neighbors and redraw the political map. This is the difference between our time and previous centuries, when borders were subject to constant fluctuations and could be challenged at any time.
...
In general, Russia, like any great Power, has strategic borders far beyond geographical ones. And they are based not on military force or financial injections, but on a much more solid, almost unshakable basis.

The third. There are several levels of Russian strategic borders.

The first level is limited to the natural landscape (the Carpathians, the Iranian Highlands, the Caucasus Mountains, the Pamirs). And civilizational frontiers-it is clear that a number of our neighbors, for historical reasons, are illogical to include in the Russian ecumene.
….
Russia sees Ukraine as being inside of Russia's innermost strategic border:
Quote:
Fourth. In the case of the so called "Ukraine" (or rather, with Little Russia), all our opponents need to firmly and forever understand the simple truth. Territories on both banks of the Dnieper River are an integral part of Russia's strategic historical borders. Therefore, all attempts to forcibly change them, to cut them off "alive" are doomed.
I don't think he is 'shooting from the hip' here from a political language/posturing perspective.
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YouBet
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In reply to docb • 7:46p, 4/17/24
AG
docb said:
nortex97 said:
Yep.

And our enemies grow stronger.



Forever war, comrades!
Since when is Germany our enemy?


They are duplicitous, but then so are we. So I guess we can't really get all that mad at them.

Germany is still funding Russia even after EU sanctions were put in place against trading with Russia. They simply do that same trading via Russian satellite states vs with Russia itself.
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PlaneCrashGuy
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12:34a, 4/18/24
AG
Even if Ukraine gets the aid, what do you honestly expect to happen next? You can slow it down, sure. You can't stop this anymore. That opportunity has passed.
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 6:07a, 4/18/24
AG
PlaneCrashGuy said:
Even if Ukraine gets the aid, what do you honestly expect to happen next? You can slow it down, sure. You can't stop this anymore. That opportunity has passed.
The aid bill will have zero impact on the actual battlefield. Well, more 155mm ammo will get more Russians and Ukrainian civilians alike killed (Ukes have been shelling civilian areas in Ukraine and Russia for 2 years). But it won't impact the pressure/pending collapses of the actual lines, imho. The betrayal is frustrating, nonetheless, politically.





Notice that border security funding is not to protect borders with Russia, but to lock Ukrainians in so they can't escape the draft/become refugees.

The Hungarian alignment with China and revival economically are not insignificant outcomes related to their position on the war:



Ultimately I think the proxy war skeptics are being fully proven correct over time:

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6:48a, 4/18/24
AG
Putin discussed/editorial about a new Eurasian security framework;
Quote:
The experience of the failure of the Euro-Atlantic project highlights the need for the creation of a new framework with different principles and foundations. Firstly, this new framework should be based on cooperation between several actors and should not rely solely on the dominance of any one party, such as that of the United States in NATO. In this regard, it is significant that consultations on Eurasian security matters have begun between Russia and China two major powers and permanent members of the United Nations Security Council.

This indicates that the very first steps towards establishing a new framework are being taken based on dialogue and shared responsibility, rather than on the principle of dominance by any one power. These steps, however, are not confined to Russian-Chinese bilateral relations, but also leave room for the participation of other countries interested in contributing. The principles of shared responsibility and non-hegemony may form the basis for a new security architecture.
[url=https://www.rt.com/news/595951-maxim-suchkov-america-has-problem/][/url]
Another principle worthy of consideration is that of multidimensional security. It is not limited to military matters (although these remain fundamental), but encompasses a broader range of issues, including "hybrid threats" such as information campaigns, cyber security, interference in domestic affairs, and the politicization of the economy and finance. The unresolved nature of these issues in Russia-West relations was one of the preconditions for the current crisis. The discussion on a new security structure could include such issues at an early stage. The principle of the indivisibility of security, which has not been realized in the Euro-Atlantic project, could and should be a core principle for the Eurasia region.

The commencement of consultations between Moscow and Beijing regarding a new security framework, of course, does not necessarily indicate the formation of a military-political alliance akin to NATO. Rather, it is likely that we will witness a prolonged process of development and refinement of the contours and specifications of the new framework. Initially, this may take the form of a platform for dialogue or consultation among interested parties, without the burden of excessive organisational or institutional obligations. Subsequent interactions may be conducted on a case-by-case basis, addressing specific security concerns, including, potentially, digital security. Existing institutions and organisations such as the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) may be utilised to this end. The experience gained could then be transformed into permanent institutions focusing on a wider range of security issues.
I would expect this to include 'Little Russia' and as well Hungary/Turkey eventually/post-war.
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rgag12
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In reply to nortex97 • 7:16a, 4/18/24
AG
nortex97 said:
Putin discussed/editorial about a new Eurasian security framework;
Quote:
The experience of the failure of the Euro-Atlantic project highlights the need for the creation of a new framework with different principles and foundations. Firstly, this new framework should be based on cooperation between several actors and should not rely solely on the dominance of any one party, such as that of the United States in NATO. In this regard, it is significant that consultations on Eurasian security matters have begun between Russia and China two major powers and permanent members of the United Nations Security Council.

This indicates that the very first steps towards establishing a new framework are being taken based on dialogue and shared responsibility, rather than on the principle of dominance by any one power. These steps, however, are not confined to Russian-Chinese bilateral relations, but also leave room for the participation of other countries interested in contributing. The principles of shared responsibility and non-hegemony may form the basis for a new security architecture.
[url=https://www.rt.com/news/595951-maxim-suchkov-america-has-problem/][/url]
Another principle worthy of consideration is that of multidimensional security. It is not limited to military matters (although these remain fundamental), but encompasses a broader range of issues, including "hybrid threats" such as information campaigns, cyber security, interference in domestic affairs, and the politicization of the economy and finance. The unresolved nature of these issues in Russia-West relations was one of the preconditions for the current crisis. The discussion on a new security structure could include such issues at an early stage. The principle of the indivisibility of security, which has not been realized in the Euro-Atlantic project, could and should be a core principle for the Eurasia region.

The commencement of consultations between Moscow and Beijing regarding a new security framework, of course, does not necessarily indicate the formation of a military-political alliance akin to NATO. Rather, it is likely that we will witness a prolonged process of development and refinement of the contours and specifications of the new framework. Initially, this may take the form of a platform for dialogue or consultation among interested parties, without the burden of excessive organisational or institutional obligations. Subsequent interactions may be conducted on a case-by-case basis, addressing specific security concerns, including, potentially, digital security. Existing institutions and organisations such as the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) may be utilised to this end. The experience gained could then be transformed into permanent institutions focusing on a wider range of security issues.
I would expect this to include 'Little Russia' and as well Hungary/Turkey eventually/post-war.


I don't think they're aiming for current NATO countries. They're wanting the rich countries in the ME, India, and Brazil to join first and foremost.
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Teslag
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 7:44a, 4/18/24
AG
PlaneCrashGuy said:
Even if Ukraine gets the aid, what do you honestly expect to happen next? You can slow it down, sure. You can't stop this anymore. That opportunity has passed.


It will be a stalemate as we've all said. Russia could barely gain anything over the past 4 months without any Ukraine aid.

There's a reason Russian agents have fought so vigorously to prevent its passage.
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74OA
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8:19a, 4/18/24
AG
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In reply to 74OA • 8:38a, 4/18/24
AG
As discussed above none of that will matter on the battlefield, and any 'credibility' as a partner Obama-Biden have surrendered in the Iraq and Afghanistan debacles, and now Ukraine (by not obtaining a truce/ceasefire and pushing the proxy war).

Another perspective on that rant:



And another unhinged from reality bumbling rant;



And the Russian war machine continues to grow stronger thanks to the revenues from this conflict's impact on oil and gas primarily, and their growing economic strength through the BRICS alliance/relationships;



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In reply to nortex97 • 8:46a, 4/18/24
AG

Quote:
As discussed above none of that will matter on the battlefield

This simply isn't correct. Russia could barely gain any ground without US aid to Ukraine. And there's a reason Russia's agents on social media and their influence on certain US congress members has been so steadfast in making sure that aid never passed.

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8:49a, 4/18/24
AG
In addition, Johnson's comments were hardly a "rant". As one of the most conservative and intelligent members of the house, he was cool calm and collected in a decisive and coherent address to that reporter.
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FJB24
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In reply to rgag12 • 8:49a, 4/18/24
BRICS is probably what you are thinking of. The security framework would be outside of that/separate. And not all of the BRICS members are large/wealthy countries. Serbia has been rumored to be applying.
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nortex97
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In reply to FJB24 • 8:55a, 4/18/24
AG
Correct.



He's right, you know.



The neocon wing of the GOP is unhinged and arguably has been since the Iraq war.
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In reply to nortex97 • 9:01a, 4/18/24
AG
What Sacks gets wrong is that subjugation isn't "peace" and NATO is a voluntary defensive organization. There's a reason Ukraine felt the need to join. Russia wanted Ukraine to be a part of Russia. Had nothing to do with NATO.

It is and has always been a land grab.
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In reply to nortex97 • 9:08a, 4/18/24
AG
So Russia has $400 billion worth of S400s ready to use? Also in 2023 it was reported they only had ~96.

Really can't believe anything Russia says when it comes to capabilities
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In reply to Teslag • 9:09a, 4/18/24
AG
Land grab on one side and money grab on the other
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In reply to P.U.T.U • 9:24a, 4/18/24
AG
P.U.T.U said:
Land grab on one side and money grab on the other
It's not really the land grab I give a crap about. And handing the speakers gavel to Hakeem Jeffries just in case the GOP nominee (who oh by the way doesn't support the war) isn't a real wonderful thing for America, at home or abroad.



And our LNG export ban also has driven the Euro's into the Russian's economic hands. Every bit of this proxy war is nonsensical, and not in America's interests to be involved with. Nuland's regime's fate is of no matter at all to me.

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In reply to nortex97 • 9:31a, 4/18/24
AG
Our border is open (but hey let's protect other countries'), we have massive inflation to the point we are in a recession, and the administration is doing everything they can to limit O&G exports. If we made a deal to export O&G we would have a lot more geopolitical power and our economy would be better. Sounds like a win win but our government has shown America does not come first

But hey all of their defense industry buddies are doing well
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In reply to Teslag • 10:23a, 4/18/24
AG
Teslag said:
In addition, Johnson's comments were hardly a "rant". As one of the most conservative and intelligent members of the house, he was cool calm and collected in a decisive and coherent address to that reporter.
I think you simplify the analyses as to his performance as Speaker as a 'conservative.'

It's fine to identify as a conservative, and in fact you and I both probably do, yet we have vastly different views on a tremendous range of political subjects. I won't excerpt the editorial but it is spot-on.
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11:30a, 4/18/24
AG
This aid totally won't make a difference and Russia isn't worried about it at all...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/germany-arrests-russia-spy-sabotage-plot-us-military-sites-ukraine-aid-rcna148331


Quote:
MUNICH, Germany Two men have been arrested in Germany on suspicion of spying for Russia and collecting information on potential attack targets, including U.S. military facilities, authorities said Thursday.

The German Federal Prosecutor's office said in a statement that two German-Russian nationals named only as Dieter S. and Alexander J. in line with the country's privacy rules were working with a Russian secret service agent to undermine international military support for Ukraine.
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In reply to Teslag • 11:47a, 4/18/24
AG
Teslag said:
This aid totally won't make a difference and Russia isn't worried about it at all...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/germany-arrests-russia-spy-sabotage-plot-us-military-sites-ukraine-aid-rcna148331


Quote:
MUNICH, Germany Two men have been arrested in Germany on suspicion of spying for Russia and collecting information on potential attack targets, including U.S. military facilities, authorities said Thursday.

The German Federal Prosecutor's office said in a statement that two German-Russian nationals named only as Dieter S. and Alexander J. in line with the country's privacy rules were working with a Russian secret service agent to undermine international military support for Ukraine.
That's a non-sequitur.

Russian spies in Germany are almost certainly unrelated to the passage of that bill in the US House, and have been a concern to the Germans for over a hundred years…at least since Lenin was shipped in a train car without windows to Russia by the Germans.

It seems like the US should be prioritizing our readiness for actual conflicts with geopolitical enemies, imho:

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In reply to nortex97 • 12:32p, 4/18/24
AG

Quote:
Russian spies in Germany are almost certainly unrelated to the passage of that bill in the US House, and have been a concern to the Germans for over a hundred years…at least since Lenin was shipped in a train car without windows to Russia by the Germans.

It clearly and unequivocally shows that the Russians are scared ****less of Ukrainian aid and will do whatever they can to prevent it. And rightly so.
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In reply to nortex97 • 12:36p, 4/18/24
AG

Quote:
It seems like the US should be prioritizing our readiness for actual conflicts with geopolitical enemies

Agree completely. And a great way to do that is to weaken the hell out of one of them with a fraction of our defense budget and at no cost to our own lives on the ground.

Russia is far weaker today than they were in February 2022. A shell of who they were and with this additional aid that weakening will continue.
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GAC06
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In reply to 74OA • 12:44p, 4/18/24
AG
74OA said:


And just like that, Johnson is now part of the deep state. Amusing that some here actually seemed convinced this wasn't always the path forward.
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In reply to Teslag • 12:46p, 4/18/24
AG
Teslag said:

Quote:
Russian spies in Germany are almost certainly unrelated to the passage of that bill in the US House, and have been a concern to the Germans for over a hundred years…at least since Lenin was shipped in a train car without windows to Russia by the Germans.

It clearly and unequivocally shows that the Russians are scared ****less of Ukrainian aid and will do whatever they can to prevent it. And rightly so.
Your use of those words doesn't mean it's an accurate description. Again, Russian spies have been in Germany for over a hundred years. With the flow of weapons from Germany (including from America) into Ukraine it's frankly only logical they'd do what they can to monitor the situation there. There is zero nexus with the US House bill this week.

It's been active throughout the present conflict. On both sides, though the arrests/charges in Germany are amplified in our media. The question as to whether Merkel, like Biden, was a sell-out/traitor/spy on behalf of Beijing in the lead up to this proxy war benefiting China's interests is perhaps mildly more interesting.
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In reply to nortex97 • 1:33p, 4/18/24
AG
Sorry, but the link I provided clearly stated that their intent was to influence aid, I even bolded it. not just here but everywhere. Russia absolutely does not want this aid to go through.

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In reply to GAC06 • 1:36p, 4/18/24
AG
GAC06 said:
74OA said:


And just like that, Johnson is now part of the deep state. Amusing that some here actually seemed convinced this wasn't always the path forward.

It was bound to happen and was predictable. You have one of the most conservative members of the House now accused of being a RINO purely because he refuses to let Russia continue their war of unprovoked aggression in a pure land grab.
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